Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?

Subject: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: GUEST,Doug Gifford
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 09:29 PM

I sing mostly popular songs from the '10s to '40s. I've noticed that before the mid-20s there were very few AABA choruses and then suddenly nearly *every* song had an AABA chorus. Has anyone else noticed that? I'm curious about how it happened.

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: Lost Chicken in High Weeds
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 09:37 PM

That's a fascinating observation. One would think that a particular song was likely "the first" and the format was seen as "good" then emulated. I'd love to have it pinpointed. Well, I see you say there were "very few" before that point, indicating that there were "some". Perhaps some "record executive" even played a hand in it, telling artists "this is what I want more of". It will definitely be interesting to see if anyone has any definitive insights, but in and of itself it's a fascinating thing to contemplate.

What kinds of formats have you noticed before the AABAs came into prominence? I tend to listen to a great deal of things from similar eras, or closer to them than modern, at least. This moment I have Lead Belly in my ears, but I've never paid much attention to such structural aspects.

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Oct 20 - 10:43 PM

A variety, of forms, of course but often a kind of march form. Think of "After You've Gone" or "Darktown Strutters Ball." Two loosely-related halves. (I'm ignoring the existence of verses in all this because, um, I want to.)

The earliest recording of an AABA chorus I've found is "Whistle It" sung by Ada Jones in 1912.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEy6AuLufW0

I don't think this song set the world on fire. The first well-known (to me) song I found is "Pretty Baby" sung by the ubiquitous Billy Murray in 1916.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMpOE_wMADI

But my knowledge of sheet music -- which was very much alive -- is basically nil. And, of course, I'm searching songs that, for some reason, I've got in iTunes. This may not be a neutral sample.

Still…

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: Mo the caller
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 04:29 PM

I know almost nothing about popular songs. Dance tune are my thing. A lot of the tunes where the instruction is 'any 32 bar jig or reel' are AABB. But a lot of Welsh tunes seem to be AABA (so it's easy to get lost on the repeats where you have 3 As together).

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 05:18 PM

A lot of Irish songs, and the tunes many are based on, tend to be ABBA form. Spancil Hill, Banks of the Roses, Cliffs of Doneen, etc.

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: GUEST,Douggifford
Date: 23 Oct 20 - 06:19 PM

Welsh tunes, like "All through the Night" 1884 AABA, "The Ash Grove" traditional AABA.

I think you're on to something.

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: GUEST,Guest DougGifford
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 10:45 AM

Did some preliminary research. The chart below gives the year, the sample size, the number of AABA songs in the sample and the percentage of AABA songs in the sample. Took awhile, and my ears need a rest, but it *is* real.

1920               36        4        11%
1921         36        0        0%
1922         36        6        17%
1923         36        4        11%
1924         49        9        18%
1925               36        9        25%
1926               69        18        26%
1927           52        19        37%
1928               72        31        43%
1929               57        30        53%
1930               47        27        57%
1931               36        20        56%
1932               39        27        69%
1933               36        23        64%
1934               42        29        69%

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 11:49 AM

It may have been dictated by the rise of the phonograph: perhaps 32 bars was all you could fit onto a cylinder or disc

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so qui
From: GUEST,DougGifford
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 03:54 PM

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: GUEST,DougGifford
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 04:11 PM

The AABA form only applies to the chorus. The whole song typically began with a short intro, then a "verse" that often set the scene. Then came the chorus which was the catchy part of the song and usually the only part anyone remembers. Finally there would be however much other stuff as was needed to fill out the performance and end with a coda.

"Ja Da" from 1918 is a textbook example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1-oGzXzNHo

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 05:42 PM

That period was heavily influenced by country music. Is it a strong characteristic of that genre? I'm thinking 'Ole Faithful' certainly would be described as AABA chorus. Also worth considering the limerick which has a similar run if you consider it in terms of a 4-line verse.

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 10:10 PM

Also worth considering the limerick which has a similar run if you consider it in terms of a 4-line verse.

But it isn't a 4-line verse. It's a 5-line verse of the form AABBA.

DC

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 20 - 11:46 PM

I don't know how to look for a prototype -- it would be pretty ancient. I suspect that the AABA form (and there's more to it than just the letters!) had been floating around for a long while. Here's "Beautiful Dreamer" by Stephen Foster -- 1864. The bridge (B section) even ends on the 5 chord, which is standard bridge behaviour. It wasn't a new invention but it emerged from the woodwork to become the dominant form in pop music until… maybe Rock & Roll.

Beautiful Dreamer

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 07:40 AM

The "middle eight" is an American import ?

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 01:46 PM

Doug, as a piece of poetry written down it has 5 lines of verse, but as a rhythm or a piece of music it would be effectively be 4 lines, the 3rd and 4th making a single line in metrical length.

If you sing your limericks as I have often done you notice things like this.

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 02:01 PM

Steve,
I have just sung a limerick and it's still 5 lines.

DC

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: GUEST,Rigby
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 06:19 PM

Charles Hamm discusses this at some length in his book Yesterdays: Popular Song in America.

I can't remember the details, but the shift is associated with a period of radical change in the music industry. In the 19th Century there were major writers and publishers in many US cities. But in the early 20th Century New York and Tin Pan Alley suddenly became very dominant. Hamm also suggests that whereas popular songwriters had previously been a fairly diverse bunch, those of the early 20th Century were drawn from a fairly narrow (mostly Jewish) milieu.

There is no connection to country music, and Hamm is also fairly scathing about the extent to which the music of black Americans really influenced the popular music of the time.

Subject: RE: Why did 32-bar AABA songs blossom so quickly?
From: GUEST,DougGifford
Date: 29 Nov 20 - 09:04 PM

I ordered Hamm's edition of "Heart Songs" but it didn't come in to the store. I'll look into "Yesterdays,…"

My (now retired) thesis advisor said: "… Charles Hamm’s 1983 edition of the 1909 Heart Songs volume. I heartily recommend you obtain a copy. Hamm’s redo should still be in print and, if not, used copies of the Hamm—or the original 1909 ed.—should available from booksellers. I’ve picked up two copies of the 1909 over the years. Best fake book I ever bought!"