How to project like a folk singer?

Subject: How to project like a folk singer?
From: matthewdechant
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 08:44 PM

I've always loved vocalists like Peter Bellamy, who just put so much air into every note, even at soft dynamics, and sound like they could still be heard for miles away (the infamous "bleating" that I've fallen in love with). How do I practice this kind of technique? I've heard to get more resonance and projection you should open your throat more, raise your soft palette, but when I do that I tend to sound very "choral" with super round vowels and stuff.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 01:13 AM

projection is about good deep breathing from the diaphragm. use opera singer techniques ,
but avoid using lots of vibrato , in fact i would recommend using very little if you want to sound like a traditional singer. you wamt to be careful using anything other than correct singing technique, you could damage your vocal chords permanently, why do you want to sound like Pter? you should be yourself, by all means use ornamentation, but avoid affectation.
my advice is stop this tom foolery, and develop your own style. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 02:19 AM

my apolgies, matthew, if i sounded rude, but developing your own style imo is paramount

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 02:38 AM

my advice is listen to his roots, walter pardon, phil tanner joseph taylor .
he was also influenced by blues, so listen to blues maybe, skip james howling wolf, falsetto type singers

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 02:39 AM

also the great english singer harry cox

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: r.padgett
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 03:14 AM

Yes I agree totally with the Sandman

Ray

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: GUEST,Oriel
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 05:16 AM

As I read it, he is asking how to project as well as Peter Bellamy, not how to sound like Peter Bellamy.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 05:47 AM

i have explained how to project the voice, sing from the diaphragm, the infamous bleating[ quote] has nothing to do with volume, it is[imo] stylistic.
if i wanted to listen to a singer with good projection i would suggest Tom Lewis. or Johnny Collins
there are other tricks to rel;ax the vocal chords [yawning before one starts singing. but not in front of an audience
'Oriel ,
he is asking how to get the technique of bleating, that seems like he wants to sound like Peter, who Southern Rag unkindly called elmer p bleatty
and who according to Jim Carroll,Peter referred to himself as larry the lamb imperspnations
PETER was a good interpreter of a story [imo] but his singing style was instantly recognisable, idiosyncratic, flamboyant and was not well received by some audiences, although others liked it.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 09:52 AM

Agree with Dick but practice practice practice is good advice.

Singers from the past needed to project as there was no such thing as electronic PA. There is really not much need for this nowadays. Why do you want to project any more than the normal voice? If you are singing in a noisy pub then PA is the answer. Most street singers/buskers use PA nowadays. There are other aids to communicating, clear diction, choosing the right key, limited accompaniment etc.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: leeneia
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 11:04 AM

I went to YouTube and listened to two songs by Peter Bellamy. He is singing with head tones. You can probably learn about head tones on YouTube.

It's a penetrating sound, and we assume it will be heard far, but perhaps not. Try playing a recording of him in different places, some quiet, some noisy. (Too bad Covid prevents jolly family gatherings which would present a true test.)

An evening of singing like that would drive me up the wall. A human can sing more than one way, (head tones, chest tones, husky, nasal, soft, wailing...). I get bored by singers who sing every song the same, as if they were a product, not a person.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 01:15 PM

Steve, the necessity of pa is debatable. i busk and do not need pa.
i will use pa on occasions, in concert situations. however it can be a barrier [imo]to audience participation, some rooms that have good acoustics [often wooden floor and wooden ceiling]; generally do not need it imo, but if i am having trouble with my voice[ unusual but it happens occasionally]of course i will use pa

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 03:48 PM

Spare Hands prefer not to use PA and we often sing in a large echoey museum room with wonderful acoustics, but when we run these maritime concerts some of the solo artists with not much projection struggle.
Just before lockdown we had a big concert in a large minster and I was all for going acoustic but the place had PA anyway and those who opted to use the PA had definite advantage. Most folk clubs don't need and don't use PA and quite rightly so.

Singers do need though to be aware of the need to project.

I also add we have performed in some halls where the PA was so bad we'd have been better off going acoustic.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: matthewdechant
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 04:19 PM

Looking at the responses so far, maybe projection wasn't the right word. I meant more like the resonance, the thickness, in voices like Peter Bellamy's. Sorry if this caused any confusion!

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 04:49 PM

Bleating sounds bloody awful - its off to the army agaaaaaaaaaaaaaain!!!

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 06:00 PM

Problem is if he'd sung in an ordinary voice and hadn't stood out we wouldn't be discussing him now. Just a matter of opinion. He wasn't my favourite singer but I liked what he did and he made a great contribution to the canon. If everybody sang the same the world'd be a bloody boring place. Better what he did than become yet another Carthy copy.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 06:33 PM

I once sat next to Danny Spooner in the back of a noisy pub with a ceiling beam that made it very hard to be heard unless you stood under the beam at the center of the room.
   The circle came round to Danny and I told him he ought to go up to "the spot". He didn't answer, but just leaned forward and started a chanty........and it was suddenly quiet all the way to the front window as he made himself heard everywhere!
   I'm not sure such power can be emulated without a certain build... and Danny had a barrel chest and years of exercising it.
Of course, there are techniques for 'projecting' to YOUR best... but some people just have it.

   I went to the sea music festival at Mystic Seaport one year and heard 2 people discussing giving directions about how to get there.
One said,"I just tell people to drive north on I-95 until you hear Don Sineti's voice, then turn right." Don was built much like Danny Spooner, and the joke about directions was not far off!

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 07:13 PM

Matthew, I think you should ask around and find a voice teacher who isn't hung up on opera.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 04:39 AM

Everybody has to like something!!

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 05:12 AM

Exactly, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 09:04 AM

I was out busking last week and got 110 euros in an hour , and i was singing, people have differnt opinions bonzo, of what they like, and thats ok.
Matthewdchant i would second leenias comment

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 01:43 PM

Thank you, Sandman.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 06:30 AM

Beams really can block output. I sang from the other end at Robin Hoods Bay where the Dolphin has one. Pub now Closed, not just covid, up For Sale.
My singing teacher, ex opera, was adamant that there is not 'head tones, chest tones, husky, nasal,etc.' only the chest matters as stated early here. Not just opera singers but other music turns on stage can project too, I praise Spare Hands for using no PA and would suggest that folk singers rarely use PA and that is one of the benefits of the scene. See thread title.
(Maybe just me prefers Live voices at folk clubs to stages and mics.) They might return one day.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 10:56 AM

Can't stand buskers using PA. It's aggressive, intrusive and takes over the street.

IMNSHO, and all that.

Am too young to have heard PB sing live - although I love his song settings, and love his voice as part of a group, I find his solo singing pretty grating. Not unbearable - just not actually pleasurable to listen to.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 11:34 AM

I much prefer to have a PA at folk gigs for sound reinforcement, unless for instance voices are suitably deafening - eg Coope Boyes & Simpson. For one thing it tends to drown out the inevitable chatter and for another it should add sound balance between voices & instruments.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: RTim
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 02:32 PM

It certainly helps if you pick the right Key to sing in - try several in practice - but always remember you are likely to pitch it higher with excitement when you first perform it...

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 02:54 PM

An unknown big room may also tempt you to sing too high.

Pubs (I can picture Edinburgh) with a blackboard outside saying 'Folk Music Tonight' will have a PA for the poor sods trying to sing against the hubbub.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 03:46 PM

if a performer is nervous or excited here is some advice, in preparing to perform, take deep breaths ,it calms and sends oxygen to the brain then have a note to pitch your song, any decent solo performer should not need amplification to balance sound between voice and instrument.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Nov 20 - 04:25 PM

Possibly in a very small folk club with no more than 20 people, but essential in larger ones such as Hitchin and the Ram Club with 100+ audiences.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 03:16 AM

no. not at all, i once did a support for ewan maccoll and peggy seehger for 500 people, i did not need pa, neither did they, it is not essential for opera singers either.
it may be essential for getting a balance between 4 or five instruments in a band, but not for a solo singer who has good projection dependent on acoustics of room BUT IT IS NOT ESSENTIAL. neither is it essential for busking

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 03:54 AM

I remember seeing an unaccompanied singer Roy arris at Durham Folk Festival,many years ago get an audience of over 100 people joining in choruses , he needed no amplification, he used stagecraft.
Bonzo it is not ESSENTIAL.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 10:32 AM

Going back to the poster's original request in this thread:

"I've heard to get more resonance and projection you should open your throat more, raise your soft palette, but when I do that I tend to sound very "choral" with super round vowels and stuff."

When I head singing lessons it was firstly about singing from your diaphragm. This was key for me as after decades of singing I'd never been told about this.

After a while, once my basic singing technique had improved and I was singing from the right place, my teacher would occasionally point out that I wasn't projecting clearly enough, and I was able to interject a bit more 'top' (for want of a better word) into my voice. I'm not sure how I would do this, but I was always aware that I was singing from my diaphragm (or belly or chest or somewhere inbetween; I've never found it to be an exact science!) and not my throat.

I've never had voice problems since then. Although my pitching's not perfect and frequently needs attention but that's largely because I don't have much time for practicing these days.

So I would make sure you have that initial breathing thing absolutely covered - that's where most of your voice's power comes from - and then work on getting some of that Peter Bellamy (or Margaret Barry)
cut-through into it.

Record yourself - record yourself a lot! Record yourself doing your best Peter Bellamy impression just for a laugh, listen back: what does that tell you? Voice recorder apps on mobile phones are wonderful things: nobody has any excuse anymore not to experiment with the sound of their instrument and hear what that sounds like immediately.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 03:41 PM

Why on earth would anyone want to record themselves doing a Bellamy impression in that bleating bellowing style?

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Nov 20 - 04:47 PM

Bcause they like him.Matt i have already explained that here
Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 05:47 AM

i have explained how to project the voice, sing from the diaphragm, the infamous bleating[ quote] has nothing to do with volume, it is[imo] stylistic.
if i wanted to listen to a singer with good projection i would suggest Tom Lewis. or Johnny Collins
there are other tricks to rel;ax the vocal chords [yawning before one starts singing. but not in front of an audienc

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 02:41 PM

Changing the question slightly, but the first post mentioned sounding like an opera singer so...
When we sing at choir we rrroll our rrrrs. Is this a good or bad idea in folk song?

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 03:18 PM

Very very bad.

Subject: RE: How to project like a folk singer?
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 20 - 03:36 PM

depends, for people who have a problem with rs sounding like w s it might help, George Deacon used to do it and nobody complained,
personally i do not bother. i remember a singer called orville who had prblem with rs sounding like ws, singing a song about having a brother in the tipperary ranks it came out as the tipewawway wanks