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Stinson Records Revisted Related threads: Stinson LPs - discography (41) Robin Roberts - Stinson recordings (4) Stinson 10-inch LPs help requested (7) Guthrie/Houston Stinson LP for auction (1) Stinson Search: I'm getting desperate (10) |
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Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 05 Jul 21 - 02:27 PM The paperwork catches up with reality… finally: “To prepare for the impending dissolution of the partnership, Asch began to make an inventory of his masters. On one list he enumerated the masters he had recorded between 9 December 1940 and 3 January 1943, that is, until the time of the partnership. These would be off limits to [Herbert] Harris. A second list consisted of the masters recorded since the partnership and until the present – 25 November [1945]. Two contracts were ultimately signed by Asch, Harris, Harris's partner Irving Prosky, and their repsective lawyers. The essence of the first contract, dated 2 December, was that Asch would sell to Harris and Prosky, for the sum of $6,267, all of the masters on the 25 November list, although, perhaps for sentimental reasons, Asch exempted In the Beginning, “Kol Nidre/Eli Eli,” and his second Leadbelly album. For a period of fifteen months Harris and Prosky would be permitted to use the name Asch Records while Asch would be forbidden to do so. Prosky and Harris forfeited any rights to Asch Recording Studios, and they agreed to hire Asch, at a weekly salary of $125, in order that he might instruct them in the “method and technique of 'completing records.'” Asch would only be obliged to remain in the employment of Stinson until he had completed the production of three albums: Adan and Eve, an album of French poetry licensed from the French Broadcasting Company, Mary Lou William's Signs of the Zodiac, and a new album of folk songs by Josh White. The agreement also stipulated that Asch would never make or sell any records with the same title and by the same artist as those that he had sold under the Asch-Stinson label.” [Goldsmith, p.169] Note: Neither party would honor the letter or the spirit of the contracts and the lawyers and accountants are still keeping busy unto the present day. |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 08 Jul 21 - 04:31 AM Somehow this got left out of the wartime shellac rationing/recycling stuff up-thread. It's clear from this and other letters Asch Recordings was not entitled to a hard ration. Rather the pressing plants were considered the raw shellac end users and the limits were imposed upstream of independent labels like Asch & Stinson. Also, I haven't seen anything to suggest the month-old distribution deal with Stinson Trading Co. would give Moe Asch control of Charlie Stinson's old cut-out inventory. Those decisions would come from Prosky/Harris/Meadow &co. “I am preparing the order along the lines of your letter of March 18 with the anticipation that it will be accepted at Scranton. As you know, all our customers are on a quota basis and at the present time our complete production is allocated. However, it should be possible for us to work in an additional 1121 records at some time, but our ability to make these records is no guarantee of our ability to make larger quantities at a future date. Incidentally, have you anything in mind about furnishing us with some scrap for which we will, of course, pay at the regular rate?” [John Griffin, Scranton Record Co., to Moe Asch, 22 March 1943 in Folkways Records, Olmstead, 2003, p.26] |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 13 Jul 21 - 08:38 AM Typical early '46 press release: “Asch Splits With Stinson; Launches Own Disk firm NEW YORK, Dec 31. – Moe Asch has split up with the Stinson Trading Company and will launch record firm of his own to be tagged Disc, it was learned here this week. Stinson company understood to be continuing with the Asch label until present supply of masters is used up and after that, firm run by Herbert Harris and Irving Prosky, may alter plans. Meanwhile Asch has already started on his own, using same distrib set-up and pressing arrangements.” [Billboard, 5 Jan 1946, p.16] |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 13 Jul 21 - 08:43 AM And those mysterious '30th Anniversary' blurbs and Stinson's own new recording studio. Set up by Moe Asch himself if Goldsmith is correct: “Stinson Enlarges Disc Activities New expansion of production and distribution activities, celebrating a 30th anniversary, is underway at the Stinson Trading Co. Inc., 27 Union Sq., New York City, record distributors. The company has purchased the interest of Moe Asch, but will continue to distribute under both the Stinson and Asch-Stinson labels, the latter by special arrangement. Offices are being enlarged by 10,000 sq. ft., providing expanded stockrooms and modern artists' recording studio. Officers are Herbert Harris and Irving Prosky. At least three albums and ten 10 in. and 12 in. individual waxings will be made and released each month. Additional jobbers are joining the present list of distribution outlets. The Stinson output includes American folk songs; boogie woogie of the “classical” school; progressive and American folk recordings; cowboy and Western songs; foreign songs, especially Russian, sung and played by exponents of the specialized type of music. Artists include Mary Lou Williams, Art Tatum, Burl Ives, Josh White, Richard Dyer-Bennett, Memphis 5, Kenneth Spencer, Coleman Hawkins, Woody Guthrie, Stuff Smith, Meade Lux Lewis, John Kirby, Lead Belly, and others.” [Radio & Television Retailing, July 1946, p.102] See also: Stinson Celebrates 30th Anniversary in Disk Biz, Coin Machines, Billboard, 1 June 1946, p.102 (above) |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 13 Jul 21 - 08:47 AM The legal jousting over who owned what began before the ink was dry on the contracts: “Denies Reported Sale An item in our July '46 issue, headed “Stinson Enlarges Disc Activities”, had reported that the Stinson Trading Co., New York City, had purchased the interests of Moe Asch. A spokesman for Mr. Asch now advises that the Stinson Trading Co. did not purchase the interest of Moe Asch; also that Stinson Trading Co., has no right to use the Asch-Stinson label. Mr. Asch gave Herbert Harris and Irving Prosky, officers of Stinson, individually, a license to use the Asch-Stinson label until March 3, 1947, but the license is not transferable and its use is expressly restricted to certain specified recordings made on or before Dec. 3, 1945, the spokesman said.” [Radio & Television Retailing, August 1946, p.137] |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 20 Jul 21 - 08:21 PM Goldsmith, Olmstead and all the rest refer to Disc Records as Moe Asch's second record label. Depending on how one parses Story Time Records and Asch-Stinson International &c it's more like the fifth or sixth to carry the Asch brand name. Into all that chaos walked an unsuspecting Norman Granz with the Jazz at the Philharmonic series. Barton names JATP, Volume I as Stinson Trading Company's all-time best seller. It's certainly in the top two discographies along with Burl Ives' The Wayfaring Stranger. Asch bought the rights to at least two songs from Grantz (How High the Moon & Lady be Good) in August, 1945. Four months later in December he resold the rights and the six masters he had prepared to Stinson Trading Co. without Granz' knowledge and without a record ever being pressed. No two of the three parties agreed on who bought what from whom or for how much. Granz-v-Harris, and all its appeals & settlements, still gets cited in publishing case law. Google it and have fun. At the end of the day Stinson Trading Co. pressed only the two songs mentioned above and only on the new Asch Records label, with its new and improved lefty logo. As above, controlled by Stinson Trading Co. alone, if only for fifteen months. The questionable represses & reissues & bootlegs that followed were another matter. Granz managed to claw back the rights to all the rest of his music. Volumes 2-5 would appear only on Moe Asch's new Disc Records label. |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 20 Jul 21 - 08:32 PM Noel Meadow still soldiering on at Stinson Trading Co.: “Stinson Price Reductions Price reductions, ranging from 10 to 35 percent, have been announced by the Stinson Record Co. Dealers have been asked to pass complete reduction on to customers, in pursuance of a policy designed to help in the war against inflation. Another Stinson announcement was that Noel Meadow, publicity director for Stinson, will also write an introduction for all future albums. His first was for "Memphis Five Favorites", now being released. Stinson are specialists in jazz, jive, classical, boogie-woogie, American folk songs and foreign and novelty discs.” [Radio & Television Retailing, September 1946, p.64] |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 20 Jul 21 - 09:26 PM Irving Prosky, last of the (two) Stinson Trading Company founding fathers otoh: “Irving Prosky Withdraws From Stinson Trading Co. NEW YORK, Dec. 21. – Irving Proskey [sic] has withdrawn from the partnership in Stinson Trading Company, distributors of Stinson and Asch-Stinson records, because of illness, and the entire business is now in the hands of Herbert Harris. Under altered ownership basis, company will continue the production and distribution of disks, with an output minimum of 26 new albums and 100 new single records – in addition to the present Stinson catalog – during 1947.” [Billboard, 28 Dec 1946, p.90] Recap: Stinson Trading Co. started up a full six years before the 1939 N.Y. Fair - without Herbert Harris and/or Soviet cutouts. The Stinson Records brand name, still to come, will be created by Harris (and Noel Meadow no doubt) without Irving Prosky. |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 14 Dec 21 - 07:17 PM Asch exit recap: So-called Asch Records breaks down as no less than four distinct brands. In rough order of appearance: Label#1 (Daniel 41) Asch Recording Studios c.1941 – Fall, 1941 Story Time (see Daniel pg.4) 1941 Note: The reported start date varies from 1938-41. First appearance in the document record is spring, 1941. Label#2 (Daniel 42 & 43) Asch Recordings Fall, 1941 – 23 January 1943, independently operated by Moe Asch, 23 January 1943 – 2 December 1945, in partnership with Stinson Trading Co. Note: Beginning with Leadbelly Play Parties. Label#3 (Daniel 45) Asch Records 23 December 1945 – c.March 1947. Note: After the split/reorganization. Moe Asch on salary to Stinson Trading Co. Label#4 (Daniel 45i) Asch International – Stinson No firm dates but circa the chaos of the 1945-47 transition. Daniel, F., The Asch Records Discography: 1941-1947 |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 18 May 22 - 09:40 PM A bit of prolog/epilog to those 1939 New York Fair U.S.S.R. reissues: Most, if not all, of the singles were originally released on the Noginski Zavod label; as were the Soviet movie scores/soundtracks reissued by Stinson Trading Co. And within a year or two they all ended up on The Music Room's International Series, Set 103, released on Eric Bernay's Keynote label. Both Keynote and Stinson repackaged some of that yet again as albums and still more singles. Odds are good the Noginski Zavod originals were already in Charlie Stinson's bargain bins before 1939. The American dubs could have come from the records or the films. Just a reminder, Stinson Trading Co. publicist/liner notes author Noel Meadow was also the American agent for Artkino. |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 18 May 22 - 09:56 PM Lawyers and more lawyers: “Music Granz Settles His $6,000 Disk Royalties Suit NEW YORK, March 1. – Suit filed last October by Norman Granz against Moe Asch, of the Asch diskery, and Irving Prosky and Herbert Harris, of Stinson Trading Company, was settled out of U.S. District Court here. Granz sued for royalties due him under an agreement with Asch made for the sale of the initial Jazz at the Philharmonic disk album. Asch, without consulting Grantz, is alleged to have turned over all rights to the album to Stinson, which paid Granz $1,500 in royalties, altho the claim was that the firm should have paid $7,500. Granz, thru attorney Andrew Weinberger, sued for the $6,000 balance. According to papers filed for discontinuance of the case, a substantial settlement was made.” [Billboard 8 March 1947, p.17] “Stinson Brings Out Line of Old Masters NEW YORK, May 3. – Latest diskery to capitalize on old masters by an artist made popular on another label is the smaller Stinson Trading Company here. Latter is releasing a $2.225 album of Phil Harris sides, including What's the Matter With Dixie?, Just A-Whistlin' and A-Whistlin, Careless and Rose Bloom. Quaint background to Stinson's cash-in on the current RCA Victor build-up for Harris is that the masters were bought from the old U.S. Record Company, which was owned by Eli Oberstein. Oberstein, now recording director for Victor, was instrumental in bringing Harris under the major company's wing.” [Billboard, 10 May 1947, p.18, c1] Note: The Harris reissues were a way to get around the latest union recording ban. Harris sued, the settlement was about the same as Grantz. Asch & Stinson both took each other to court again during the last days of their existing court settlement(s.) By sometime in early 1948, Stinson Trading had their new studio and trained engineers and Moe Asch was officially off the Stinson payroll for good. One of those new sound engineers was co-owner Herbert Harris' son Robert. |
Subject: RE: Stinson Records Revisted From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch Date: 18 May 22 - 09:57 PM “Robert Harris, new sales manager for Stinson Records, and Herbert Radin has replaced Noel Meadow as the plattery's publicity director… Le Mar Corporation named N.Y. distrib for Stinson Records. [Billboard, 21 February 1948, p.22] |
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