BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 09:07 AM

I enjoy my recreational time here, so that makes it spent, rather than wasted, right [grin]?

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 04:01 PM

I'm far too busy with family concerns at the moment
to be indulging in recreational time wasting with mudcat..

But right now just hiding away in the bog for 10-minutes having a refreshing clear out..

I thought, a perfect opportunity to have a quick look in and catch up on mudcat..

Then I arrived in this thread and see Donny's post...!!!!!!!!!!

F*** that.. life's too short even at the best of times.

Talk about unreasonable...!!!!!

I think I'll catch up on emails instead...

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 21 - 08:07 AM

I remember how I fell for the fear factor after 9-11 but never again.
I ain't afraid of no white supremist ghosts.
Yeah they are just militia lovin ghosts from the civil war.
The USA chant doesn't belong to them.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 06:31 PM

Well consider yourself stoned you ol coot.
I'm not.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 06:28 PM

If that huge long post has anything to do with reason, well stone me.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 06:04 PM

Pfr, good catch, there.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 01:39 PM

PS I did not intend to say pfr has no wit but rather that he tells it as it is. I however believe we the sensible and the 'other' are BOTH susceptable to lies which are intrinsicly inherent in the way we are taught to think inside the lines and rules.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 01:30 PM

Nature has an imagination greater than its secondary life forms including us. You have thought about how art imitates life or mused how sometimes life imitates art as in a movie but more truthful - is that life imitates and obeys nature. Entropy is a powerful force in nature.
It is a powerful force in political psychology. I believe we can resist it and restore/advance reason.

Lies may rain down forever but we need to create an enviorment like a hot dessert so that the snowflakes of lies melt before they hit anyone or thing.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Feb 21 - 01:08 PM

I suppose there is wit, half wit and no wit like pfr.
If Einstein lived in the time of twitter and became concerned about how many likes he had on Twitter we would have no General or Special relativity.
BE YOURSELF and avoid ENTROPY. Einstein said "As humans we have the ability to move against the current or tide of spacetime.
My perspective/bias is Psychology and Physics.
Entropy in psychology is FORGETTING , it is loss of consciousness: it is when we forget who we are and wrongly identify ourselves with a false (or game-playing) self. Being one of the boys replaces our innate uniquness. The reverse of entropy is consciousness, or ‘self-remembering’ – which is when we see through the game and remember what we forgot. Esoteric psychology has long acknowledged this principle of Self-forgetting, which lies behind so much of what we do. When we do not acknowledge this principle, then everything we do tends to become part of the on-going endeavour to avoid the truth, and even love itself ends up as a means of forgetting. Love ought to wake us up, but it slides over imperceptibly into sentimentality, attachment and pain.
FORGETTING ALLOWS LIES TO LIVE and stalls invention and discovery..........I am using novelty in a way that is not entertainmnt. We can entertain ourselves to death but novelty in the way I mean is a much bigger paradigm shaking event and thinking process. I have seen glimpses of novelty in MOAB over the years while it is mostly absent in the rest of threads here. (Certain bright members excluded)

Yet, this pre-occupation with ‘game’ rules (for this is what evolutionary psychology comes down to) is a manifestation of a curious and unacknowledged one-sidedness. Physics, as we all know, is a search for fundamental laws, laws that apply across the board, laws that are intrinsic to the nature of the universe itself. Why do we assume that there are no such equivalent laws to be found in psychology? Contemporary psychology thinks only in terms of extrinsic laws, - rules that are arbitrarily imposed. One reason that immediately comes to mind is that we do not see mind / consciousness as being fundamental in the same way that we see matter as being. We are, as professor of physics Amit Goswami (1993) says, as confirmed material realists – we believe that only matter is real. BULLSHIT without the Higgs there is no matter/masss. The truth of the matter (pun intended) is that we have chosen to go down this road a long time ago, and we certainly aren’t showing any signs of wanting to question that choice now. Our predisposition to see the universe we live in this way leads to some rather peculiar, if not down-right contradictory conclusions, however. The inevitable conclusion of material realism is that the only meaning to be found in life is that meaning which is conditioned by natural selection, i.e. we only find stuff meaningful because it suits the game of ‘survival of the fittest’ that we do. Philosophically, this is the same as saying that, in the final analysis, everything is meaningless, which is in keeping with the important Western tradition of philosophical pessimism. The problem with this conclusion has been pointed out quite often, however: if everything is meaningless, then so too is our assertion that ‘everything is meaningless’ meaningless; it is a null-statement. We think that when we make this statement we are saying something meaningful, but if that meaningfulness is ‘meaningful’ only because of the way in which the arbitrary rules of natural selection have caused our brains to be designed, then it is not meaningful at all, in any real sense of the word. If such is the case, then it is inescapable that anything we say must be tautological, i.e. incapable of referring to anything outside itself. This notion of ‘tautological meaning’ is, as we shall shortly see, central to our understanding of psychological entropy. Extremofiles to humans beings are not extrmeophiles to Nature. Even the Overlords of antiquity are extremophiles compared to us. The thing is that the O's are now dumbed down and are suffering from a condition I call PSYCHOLOGICAL ENTROPY.

Jung, writing in the first half of the twentieth century, had no recourse to non-equilibrium thermodynamics, and had to apply classical thermodynamic theory to the dynamic, self-organizing system of the psyche, which it is not able to model. He did the best he could, Capra argues, with the limited understanding that was available. Science has moved on along with psychology.

There are people smarter than us and the opposite. I am in good company when I say there are extraterrestrial intellegences that exceed our own who also can not see the whole of reality.
We have seen how science shapes society in good nd bad ways. In the 20th century 'survival of the fittest' caused much fascist harm. Now the Higgs can do some unifying good in society.
We should move beyond Carl Jung since science has moved beyond where we were. Abraham Maslow’s assertion that neurosis is, at root, the rejection of novelty, i.e. the unknown. This would mean that ‘laziness’ (in Scott Peck’s particular usage of the word) corresponds to neurosis, or ‘sticking to the known’. Within the mainstream of contemporary psychological thinking, however, there is no place for concepts such as mental entropy as a result we are in the curious position of trying to describe mental functioning without admitting the existence of any law of energetics and special senses.This makes us EXCEPTIONALLY prone to lies. Rather than looking into the possibility that the psychic domain may be subject to universal laws in the same way that the physical domain is subject to, say, the law of gravitation (be it emergent or fundamental), it seems that we want to see everything that goes on in the mind as being due to conditioned laws only. Conditioned laws are rules that are arbitrarily set up, much like the law that prohibits driving a car when under the influence of alcohol; Thhe law can save lives so that we can survive and reproduce as successfully as possible. Both biological drives and ‘environmental selection on the basis of reproductive performance’ come down to evolution in the end of course, and it is evolutionary psychology that makes the major claim on our attention at the present moment. That this is generally considered to be ‘the way to go’ is clearly demonstrated by our interest in such endeavours as the Human Genome Project, and the popularity of academics such as Daniel Dennett and Steven Pinker, who have (separately) articulated the principles of evolutionary psychology in a number of high profile books.
The loss of novelty in humans is an entropy that has serious aspects of pschological Entropy as it applies to Society and the smartest and dumbest of us who never learned to think in the first place.
Or simply put it seems some of us are forgetting to defend ouselves
against the dark art of lies.

Qui bono? The criminals, thats who.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:55 AM

oops.. "sensible rest of society"...

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:52 AM

In the context of this thread and it's relevance to the real world,
I'm regaining an appreciation of the term "Half wit"...

Social media is becoming dominated by basically well educated articulate people, the + half of their wit;

but who have been convinced they are a superior elite of better informed experts than scientists and higher academics.

Their egotistical dogmatic belief in conspiracy theories is the - half of their wit.

These people are easily convinced and manipulated conformists,
who have been deeply programmed with an arrogant conviction
that it is the rest of sensible society who are the brainwashed sheeples..,!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:58 AM

Chinese translations have their glitches

The most practical way to stop radicalizing the religious and supremacist right is to STOP ALGORHYMICLY REINFORCING USERS OF FACEBOOK and youtube. It creates an echo chamber that people drown in.

The nazi right have had to go to a internet platform telegraph, the same platform used by ISSIS.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:07 AM

Hippies? Really?

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 09:56 AM

Rap calls it
camoflage

There are pharmaceutical solutions for the lack of empathy.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:41 PM

We can safely presume any mercenaries being hired as agent provocateurs,
have both antifa and maga costumes in their wardrobe of disguises...

.. though it's entertaining fun and games guessing who is hiring their services...????????????????

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:19 PM

In an effort to further destabilize the US and engrandize their own countries Both Russia and China are publishing that Antifa,'hippies' and BLM stormed the US capitol.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: leeneia
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 01:22 PM

Donuel, thanks for those insights from angelaha. There are some excellent points there.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 07:35 AM

Aha I found my reading glasses.
No one wants to be deprogramed. People know whats its like to be tricked by a lie, starting with Santa Claus. Change should come with definitions people can more easily understand. Deprogramed is a poor choice of words, although it is true.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 21 - 06:42 AM

Democratsunderstanding th cultlike indoctrinationof trumps bse has asked how do we DEPROGRAM THEM.

Now the repubs object to deprograming llke in the book 1984

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 04:42 PM

fits, were averaging 3,500 deaths everyday.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM

oops.. wrong thread..

but.. does highlight lack of good reason in UK govt thinking...

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 12:26 PM

So, boris now seems to be competing to kill at least as many British civilians than even h1tler ever did...???

Well done, tories..

Persistently striving to make Britain world beaters...!!!

2020 saw most excess deaths since World War Two

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM

portion

Practice critical thinking. People often believe in conspiracy theories because of “lazy thinking,” says Nadia Brashier, a National Institutes of Health postdoctoral fellow at Harvard University who studies why people fall for fake news and misinformation. “We need to be nudged to consider whether the claims in front of us are accurate. So, slowing down and asking yourself, ‘Is this information biased or unlikely to be true,’ can be really helpful.”

Although many conspiracy-theory believers consider themselves to be critical thinkers, closely examining their evidence might help them see otherwise, Douglas adds. For example, does all the conspiracy-theory-related material come from one type of source, while non-conspiracy-theory information comes from different sources? That can be a clue that something is off.

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Change your perspective. Try thinking about a situation that triggers negative feelings in a way that will change its emotional impact. For example, parents might point out to a child who’s struggling with staying at home for an extended period of time that isolation is often part of an adventure; in fact, astronauts train for it. That new perspective can help reframe the experience into something more positive.

This approach is called cognitive reappraisal, says Nicole Giuliani, an assistant professor at the University of Oregon who has expertise in health behaviors, emotions and self-regulation. Research suggests that those who use the technique are more likely to have closer relationships, fewer depression symptoms and greater life satisfaction. It can also diffuse the strong emotions linked with conspiracy theories.

Giuliani has been using cognitive reappraisal often, she says, as she juggles working full time from home with two young kids. Rather than focusing on the difficulties, “I’m trying to remember that they aren’t little for very long, and we’ve had a lot more time together than we would have otherwise,” she says. “I do find that it’s helping me snuggle them closer while we read ‘Jamberry’ for what feels like the millionth time, and that can’t be bad.”

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Connect — and consult. Feeling isolated and disconnected — emotions plenty of people have struggled with during the pandemic — are primary reasons people fall for conspiracy theories, Rathus says.

Make an effort to remain connected, and remember that social distancing doesn’t have to mean social isolation. Watch the same movie as a friend, even if you’re in different places, or schedule a Zoom book club meeting. Make plans to meet outdoors — at a park, for example.

If you do become intrigued by a conspiracy theory, talk to others before you decide it’s valid, as TeGrotenhuis’s client did. “Think through all the wise and sound people you know and trust,” TeGrotenhuis says. “Think about your peers and mentors. Are they following this conspiracy theory? Check it out and see if they’re thinking along those lines as well.”

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Try guided imagery. Visualizing positive outcomes can help clamp down on the intense emotions that might make you more vulnerable to harmful conspiracy theories. Picture yourself in a happier time — at the beach during a vacation or visiting a relative you haven’t seen in months, Rathus suggests. Or imagine what you’ll do once it’s safe to resume old routines.

Then, challenge your brain to counter all the “what ifs.” Replace, “What if the worst happens?” with something such as, “What if we have a safe, effective vaccine, and life returns to normal?”

“Our brains are wired to pick up threat,” Rathus says. “There’s no incentive to get stuck on what could go well, because evolutionarily, that kept us safe. But in times like this, when there’s so much threat to pick up, it bombards us quite painfully.”

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Do one task a day that makes you feel in control. It can be big or small: searching for a new job or washing that days-old tower of dishes. “Keeping in charge of your space and feeling more in control of your life makes you less prone to feeling like other people are pulling the strings,” says Nathaniel Herr, an associate professor of psychology at American University.

Working on a project, such as growing a window herb garden or decluttering your house, can also help decrease feelings of powerlessness. Rathus refers to it as building mastery. Doing something every day that helps us feel more competent and in control of our lives is “an incredible lift to our emotions.”

Take good care of yourself. Eat well, exercise every day, get enough sleep — you’ve heard it before. But “sometimes, it’s the seemingly simple things that are really hard,” Herr says, such as taking medications as prescribed and keeping an eye on alcohol consumption. Just as not getting enough sleep can make us overwhelmed and snappy the next day, it can also leave us with spiraling thoughts. “Trying to keep your equilibrium on that level is a good way of protecting yourself from feeling strong emotions,” Herr says.

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Accept the circumstances. “There’s not a lot we can control about the pandemic or wildfires or other major stressors these days, so it can be freeing to stop trying to fight these negative feelings and just accept them,” Giuliani says. Calming strategies such as deep breathing and meditation can help. Or consider acceptance and commitment therapy, she suggests — a therapeutic approach to learning to make peace with your circumstances.

Angela Haupt is a writer and editor based in the District. Follow her on Twitter @angelaha

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jan 21 - 10:46 AM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/why-uncertain-times-make-us-susceptible-to-conspiracy-theories--and-how-to-pro

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 08:06 PM

Thanks Charmion. That was a big help! Better knowledge of portyankis AND puttees! Now Kipling will make more sense!

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 02:23 PM

pfr I will second your nomination to the NYSFTTS. The licensing is up to you.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 11:49 AM

pfr.. No family recipes for 'long pig'. Many years ago, Max did videos. You'd have to ask him. ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 11:35 AM

The photo also looks like a poster for a movie
about a nice friendly couple running a rural folksie hotel
where guests mysteriously disappear..

The hotel kitchen serves the tastiest meat pies in the county...

We want to see this film, why aint mudcat in the movie business ...!!!???

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 11:33 AM

Robo, portyanki are not like puttees, except in that they are flat pieces of cloth.

Oblong in shape, portyanki are wrapped around the bare feet and ankles, and are worn inside the soldier's boots and trousers. They work best with the felt-lined knee-high boots that are the Russian equivalent of mukluks. Puttees are long strips of cotton webbing that are wound around the leg on top of the trousers, socks and the top two inches of the British ammo boot. Infantry soldiers wind them from the ankle up to the knee, and gunners and troopers wind from the knee down to the ankle, so they don't come undone from friction against stirrup leathers.

After the invention of knitting machines and the arrival on the Russian market of affordable knitted socks, the true purpose of portyanki -- apart from saving the state money -- was as an initiation experience for recruits. Learning to wrap their feet correctly was one of the first things taught to Soviet soldiers, and the Russian army abandoned them only very recently. Puttees were adapted from clothing worn by tribal fighters in India during the 18th and 19th centuries, and were kept in wear until the 1960s because they provided easily adjustable support to soldiers' legs, they were very distinctively military, and they were cheap.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 11:16 AM

I was unaware that I was in such elite company.. but I have so many ancestors who inhabited various English manors that I'd not know where to claim residence. (Some of them, unfortunately, did not follow the example of the Vicar of Bray)

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Jan 21 - 06:59 AM

Lovely picture, Bill. You would be at home as lord of the manor in any English stately home in that :-) Glad to see that you are keeping Edward V11 company by leaving the bottom button of the waistcoat undone :-D

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:54 PM

Mrrzy. I pedal corrected....in athletic socks.

I understand that Russian soldiers wore not socks, but portyanki throughout WWII. These were fabric foot-wraps. Cotton in summer, flannel in winter. The official word to shift to socks came relatively recent according to The New York Times.

Apparently they are similar to what the British call puttees.

I don't know how far back socks go, actually. I've got a recording of George Bernard Shaw stating that he had his socks made left and right, and I ran into that recently in Alaska, but I forget just where.

The town I used to live in in Massachusetts had an underwear factory, and I still think I have some t-shirts made in Needham. Apparently that was so the unwed mothers could have jobs!

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:33 PM

Great pic, Bill.

I still have the suit, the shoes and the underpants I got married in 44 years ago. Unfortunately, due to 44 years' good living, there's no way I can get any of them on now. Well, maybe the shoes, but even they look doubtful. And just a bit mildewy ...:-(

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:19 PM

Maybe... it shows the file name, but slow loading.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:17 PM

Ok folks.. here's me with my wife, when that suit was 'only' about 30 years old.
at a friend's wedding

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 07:06 PM

re:socks....

I spent most of my life in jobs which required shoes.. and often work boots... with good socks, to be both safe and comfortable. In the few years when I might have worn sandals, my feet had no protective callouses. I now, in my 'declining' years, have several pair of sandals and 3 pair of shorts.
It is interesting how people differ so much in their sartorial display. I feel gaudy in a shirt with any red or yellow in it. My favorites, both short and long-sleeved are black & while checked. My 'party' shirt is a green & gray checked thing my wife gave me several years ago. I also have a blue-gray shirt with a small wold embroidered on it. My ONLY suit is a brown corduroy with matching vest I bought for my wedding 40 years ago. I have worn it to a couple of weddings and a few other events since, including my son's wedding 2½ years ago! (I think I always wore the same leaf-green with white outlining tie).

   I think I'll put a link to me in it on my Dropbox or Google drive.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 05:28 PM

Robomatic who bought the bike?

Hahaha. Peddled vs Pedaled. Never mind. It has been a long week.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 01:53 PM

The first ammndment has always had lilits. When radio arrived the government got involved, same with TV. The Internet revolution is in its wild west age and has proven toxic in the wrong hands. This technology is too advanced for humans? The next one will be a doozy if unregulaed. Th first ammendment is not as sancrosanct as we mightthink.

Subject: Is this how to restore reason ?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 08:08 AM

I have no idea what it must be like to be sock blocked.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jan 21 - 06:14 AM

One of the reasons I decided to eschew socks for ever was the dreaded phenomenon of sock-slip. I always hated those grooves that normal socks left around the bottom on my calves, so used to wear those loose-top ones. After a short while they generally ended up scrunched under my foot inside my shoe with an unbesocked bare heel to show for it. I found this to be an intensely crippling experience. I regard socks, along with the boob apron, to be among the worst sartorial inventions ever.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:58 PM

OK when I was younger and even more irritating than I remain at present, my parents told me to put my shoes and socks on. I gleefully returned to them with my feet in my shoes, and my socks pressed onto them as far as they'd go.
In more than one way I am lucky to be alive!

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 09:04 PM

I can't bear socks. I wear them for weddings and funerals only, and even then I whip them off in the car afterwards as soon as is decently possible. For thirty years I have had just the one pair of black shoes and they are still in very good condition. All my other footwear is sandals, and I never wear footwear of any kind in the house. So if you knocked on my door and saw me, you'd think I was in a state of honest poverty. Trouble is, I also wear shorts all the time and all my shirts are short-sleeve and extremely colourful, mainly of the Hawaiian type. I wonder if that makes me non-povera...

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 07:16 PM

Well I think it would be better to be wearing shoes without socks rather than traipsing around the west of Ireland barefoot.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 12:02 PM

Thompson:

Great quote!
I peddled a bicycle through the Gaeltacht in the 80s with a kid who was learning Irish Gaelic and we would stop and he'd interpret the signs. Are you fluent?

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 11:55 AM

Irish proverb: Is fearr a bheith coslom ná cosnoctaithe - it is better to be barefoot than in shoes with no socks, ie better honest poverty than a pretence at wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 04:59 PM

According to multiple sources on the internet, that quote pre-dates Mark Twain considerably. And the quote is not socks but shoes. Shoes is what people go halfway around the world in, socks optional.

Mark Twain: "If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything."

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:21 PM

True, and a lie is a swift WMD
Trumps election lies are years old but Mark Twain was also right
"A lie is halfway around the world before the truth gets its socks on".

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 03:05 PM

The word truth can be used several ways, just as 'folk'. But it often involves an equivocation when just tossed about. When capitalized and put in quotes, it is usually meant as dressed up word for 'fact'.

If 'facts' are known in some matter, 'truth' means honestly and accurately acknowledging facts.
A lot of what people like to wave about as truth is merely some subjective opinion on some abstraction. It gets kinda slippery.

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:44 PM

Your essay on correcting essay tests reminded me of our far simpler method of evaluating job interviewees. On our best days several of us employed persons ran identical questions to the subjects, then scored them personally, then met and decided if we agreed with each other and if not, why not. I think we based our method on how we saw Olympics judges score performance athletics that couldn't be timed. Not a good model now that I rethink about it.

I meant to *explain the SAT
in my previous posting. For those of you not in USA "SAT" is an abbreviation for what used to be "Scholastic Aptitude Test". They were everpresent when I was a high school student. They were given at the end of American elementary education so about when the average student was 17 or 18 and were supposed to indicate how well prepared one was for post-secondary education, but not paid for by the state. Possibly subsidized, but I don't think totally. There were two separate sections to be done, one that verbal and another that was mathematical. Predominantly multiple choice. Possibly there were essays required for the verbal.

It might be a good idea to have some set of standard requirements that can be posed as an exam and must be passed to go into public service, but that would certainly indicate a society prejudice against mental infirmity or personality defects. I doubt that can work in the U.S. because it departs from the 'everyman' nature of our Democracy. Also, I believe the French have a quite elaborate system of schooling their public officials and how has that worked out? (Seriously, I'm asking, how has that worked out? I sure don't know).

Subject: RE: BS: How can we restore a reason renaissance
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 02:27 PM

Bill, I consider Truth fundamental while nebulus. I do not relegate truth to an adjective status.