Indian Neck Memories

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: GUEST,Marcia Segal
Date: 06 Jul 22 - 08:04 PM

If anyone still visits this thread and is interested: there are two collections at the American Folklife Center with Indian Neck recordings (and some from The Exit and elsewhere): one is the Indian Neck Folk Festival collection (AFC 2016/002) and the other is the Christopher Moore collection of Indian Neck Folk Festival and other recordings (AFC 2016/055). I'm processing the second one. Sadly, Chris Moore passed away a few months ago. Many people mentioned and/or posting here are in the recordings. The recordings aren't online but if you have questions you can email me (mseg at loc dot gov) or folklife at loc dot gov.

Good music, good times.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sourdough
Date: 19 Oct 15 - 03:07 PM

There was what sounds like another reel to reel tape recorded, I think I.B. was connected to WYPC, the Yale radio station. It too was lent to someone years ago and has disappeared.

The mention of the concert at Woolsey Hall at Yale jogged some memories. I stage managed the event and so was backstage with the increasingly restless performers as the show ran longer and longer, as each act went over their budgeted times. Standing out most vividly in my mind from that time are Harry and Jeannie West. They were lovely as well as patient and I loved their music. Also, Rick Lee who had come down with his soon-to-be wife, Lorraine. Rick and I became good friends and worked together for many years at WGBH, the PBS station Boston and stayed in touch right up until the end. He was one of my favorite people to sit and play with. His knowledge of music and music history was extraordinary and he shared it freely and was much appreciated by all who got to partake of it. Also on the bill that concert night was the first fretless banjo player I had ever heard and a woman whose frailing set the standard for me of what a frailed banjo sounds like. Unfortunately, I don't know who either of them were.

Regardigng authenticity: In retrospect this aspect of the folk music revival at least at Yale was rooted in a recognition that there were things wrong in America. There wasn't a feeling of rebellion, as i remember, only a shocked recognition that there were serious injustices around us and somehow the appreciation of music that had come up through the people, the expressed joys and fears filtered through the creativity of generations of working people and their families was more authentic than the manufactured music, the product of an soulless industry.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: GUEST,WILLIAM TAYLOR, GLOUCESTER, MA.
Date: 18 Oct 15 - 10:27 AM

I made a reel to reel tape at Indian Neck and it had "Robert Zimmerman"playing on it...I gave it to Peter Rowan in the 1980"s and have no idea what has happened to it. I have not seen Peter in a decade or more.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: GUEST,Tim Woodbridge
Date: 09 May 12 - 04:15 AM

I just came across "Indian Neck Memories" which certainly jogged some of my own. In 1961, John Swope, a fraternity brother of mine at Amherst, and I were in our first year at Yale Law school. Sometime during the Spring, we began noticing signs around the Yale Campus advertising a concert at Woolsey Hall to feature performers from the Indian Neck Folk festival. I no longer recall the details, but somehow John and I learned that the festival was to be held at the Montowese House, a rambling 19th century Victorian Hotel on Indian Neck Point in Branford, Connecticut. It being Friday, we decided to check the place out. When we arrived there were only a few people there setting the place up. I was carrying my clunky Gibson L50 guitar in a battered case and probably the workers just figured we were invited. As time went on, more and more people arrived, giving us additional cover. Eventually I took out my guitar and was probably fooling around on something when I was approached by a guy about my age carrying a banjo case, who introduced himself as Hank Schwarz and asked if I wanted to play some tunes, which we proceeded to do. It turned out that he was to be one of the performers at the Woolsey Hall Concert that night, and he asked me if I would like to play guitar with him. Since he was one of the best banjo players I had ever heard, I jumped at the offer. While a lot of people probably wondered who the hell I was, I don't recall anyone challenging my presence. There was no Indian Neck the following year, but Hank got me on the list for the next festival and, with the exception of two or three years, I have been to every one since.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: GUEST,Charlie Taylor
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 05:08 PM

I looked at some of the photos of the early festivals, and was reminded of a couple of things: Everbody looks pretty straight by later standards-like a bunch of Yalies and their girlfriends-which many of the spectators were, including myself.So much for 'folks', but you gotta start somewhere.And Bob Dylan, whom I heard, and didn't think much of.Just another middle-class kid trying to sound down home.I was a big fan of the Country Gentlemen,who were real hillbillies singing real hillbilly music.They wouldn't have been caught dead at Indian Neck-if it had occured to anyone to invite them.On the other hand, I also liked the New Lost City Ramblers, who could hardly have been accused of being 'authentic', even if their music did sound liked it crawled out of 'some dark holler'.This authenticity business was complicated-still is.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: GUEST,Charlie Taylor
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 01:55 PM

Nice that this site is out there.I attended a couple of these events in the early sixties-not as an 'official' performer, but as a spectator, who wandered around the great funky falling apart hotel,sampling the jam sessions going on in various rooms.I played the guitar, and sat in on a few.Mostly I remember the beer, the reefer,the bare hotel rooms with sagging, uncovered mattresses, the BMW R60 with a big white peace sign painted on its fairing, and the first Norton I ever saw.The sixties were getting started, and things were about to get interesting. Indian Neck was on the cutting edge.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Booklynrose
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 04:19 PM

I'm writing to invite all of you to the Eisteddfod. As some of you know, it is a festival of traditional music that is open to everyone. Come sing/jam/listen October 16-18. There are paid performers & guests, an open mike/campers' concert, and plenty of opportunity to jam and sing together. The discussion above referred to Lorraine (Lee) Hammond, Dave Howard and Dave Kiphuth who will be performing at Eisteddfod. I think Indian Neck is kind of an open secret. People who will be at Eisteddfod who (I think) go to Indian Neck now are Joy Bennett, Jerry Devokaitis, Jerry Epstein, David Jones, John Roberts, Neil Rossi, Heather Wood. There may be more overlap than that.
Eisteddfod was run by Howard Glasser in eastern Massachusetts for decades. It lost its funding sometime in the 1990's. About 7 years ago the N.Y. Pinewoods Folk Music club started it up again in New York City. Now it is moving upstate to the Friar Tuck Inn in Catskill, N.Y. Ironically it would be too expensive to hold it at Camp Friedman. Friar Tuck Inn with private baths, an indoor swimming pool, and good food is cheaper than the rate Eisteddfod could get at Camp Friedman. Other outstanding performers coming to Eisteddfod are: Tony Barrand, Paul Geremia, Bennett Hammond, Enoch Kent, Alison McMoreland & Geordie McIntyre, Sonja Savig, Dwayne Thorpe, Bill & Livia Vanaver, Mick Vandow, George Ward, and Eric Weissberg. See http://www.eisteddfod-ny.org.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 10:43 AM

Just another note -- my first hearing about the Indian Neck Festival was in Judy Collins' notes in her Songbook (c. 1970).

Linn

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Marcia Stehr
Date: 09 Sep 09 - 09:56 AM

I was at the 1961 Festival!

I have a few photos I took, some of the stage and some out the window of the Hotel. They are not great but one of these days I will scan them and put them up somewhere.
Any suggestions as to where to put them would be appreciated.

I remember Danny Zemachson, Arnie Feldman, Fred Niel, Judy Collins (in the swimming pool at midnight with John "Spider" Koerner) and many others.
I loved being there with the high energy and warm, loving atmosphere. It was music heaven! I'm not a musician but a huge supporter of traditional music. I can only imagine what kinds of special exchanges occurred which shaped the lives of many who were there.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 29 Aug 09 - 09:59 AM

My God still more about Indian Neck and the Yale Hoots We did have a few Yale Hoot reunions several years ago Saw John Cohen. Have found the following From the yale hoots Just realised we all must be in our 70"s. Allan

Robert Abelson, [quite ill] Maxine Abramowitz[Max], Mary Arnold Twining, Louis[Garry] Audette, Jason Bacon,   Riss Barnard,   Nikki Barranger,   Charlie Barton,   Harvey Blau,   Richard Blaustein , George Buchanan,   John Cohen,   Frank Collin, [passed away]    Chas connoly,   Elliot Ephraim, [Hoots at his book store]
Charles Farout,   Steve Gilford,   Bill Hamilton,   Upton Hudson,   Pitt Kinsolving, Dave Kiphuth,   Marsh Leichter , George McCeney,   Nitk Moelhman,    Ann Sendroff,   Allan Schwartz,   Roger Sprung,   Kent Taylor,   Tim Woodbridge,

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: open mike
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 03:33 PM

not knowing the geography, the name evoked this memory.
http://www.unitedmaskandparty.com/Costumes/images/indian_neck_piece.JPG

i hear Bob Dylan was one of the early performers there at the festival.

www.bobdylanroots.com/ineck1.jpg

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: humbead
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 03:18 PM

I also remember La Galette, vaguely. John Nuese, my roommate in Cambridge in early '63, told me there was a large cannon in the basement of the place, with a live shell lodged in it. They managed to get the cannon out safely, and took it up to Cornwall, where they planned to fire the shell to remove the danger. However, as they were about to fire it, Nuese's father noticed they were aiming it directly at the Appalachian Trail. Don't know what happened after that.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: humbead
Date: 28 Aug 09 - 03:13 PM

I was at the '61 and '63 Indian Neck events. I am not a musician, but do have a radio show at Williams College, where I had live music played from the local coffee house. The musicians I had on the series of shows were Bill Dawes, Borden Snow, and Mac Benford, who called themselves "The Purple Mountain Ramblers".

They were invited to the '61 Indian Neck, and took me along. I had Bill's portable tape recorder, and recorded a bunch of the '61 concert, at the Montowese Hotel large room, not at all at Woolsey Hall.

I have Dylan, the Greenbriar Boys, Niela Miller, Rev. Gary Davis,
Jim Kweskin, Buz Marten, Sally Schoenfeld, etc., etc. Paul Cadwell would not let me tape him, though. Apparently the Dylan tapes are the first made in front of an audience. They are out on the web, just Google for "Montowesi Hotel" (sic). Lots of hits, pretty much all about those tapes. (Easy to find because of the misspelling of the Montowese Hotel name.)

There was no Indian Neck in '62, but John Nuese (and others, maybe) put on a similar event in Cornwall, that was called the Yelping Hill
festival, or some such.

For Indian Neck in '63, I was living in Cambridge, and they asked me to round up Cambridge musicians to come down there. Jon Scoville was the one who asked me, and I talked about it with the people I knew, and a bunch of us went down there. I didn't have a recorder that year, though.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 May 05 - 09:27 AM

Refresh!

It's still happening. The music is still the chief priority, although social skills are probably also important. There are no formally schedueled workshops. There was a scheduled sign-up evening concert with full sound system but that was the exception to the general practice of apparent anarchy. One just joined or formed a group and settled down to play or sing wherever one could find space. The food seemed quite good, which may surprise attendees of previous years, and the cabins quite comfortable. There was quite a range of ages present with musical traditions executed (!) from bluegrass, folk, comtemporary, to gospel.

As a newcomer I found it all somewhat confusing but always interesting. I did get more sleep, 6 hours vrs. 3 hours, than I usually get a the Mystic Sea Music Festival. And I did have a good time.

The initation sytem is still a mystery, and is probably still evolving.

Of course, I was firmly convinced it was next weekend until my buddy Barry called me last Friday afternoon, wondering when I was coming to pick him up. I survived the weekend pretty well with what I packed into the van in 15 minutes flat.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: been trying to go for years
Date: 17 Jan 00 - 02:42 AM

Despite what others say I do believe there is some degree of elitism at Indian Neck. I have wanted to go for years. I know Jay and a whole bunch of other people who regularly go to I.N. Jay knows I'd love to go and I mention it to her almost every time I see her. She says, "I'll put you on the list," and then I hear nothing. When I see her she seems to like me. I'm a good singer. I went once back in the early 80's for a day with a friend who got an invite and had a good time. I realize there are space restrictions but after 25+ years of trying, you'd think there would have been a space at least once. Heck, I live close enough in a bordering state where I wouldn't have to stay there. So I guess there must be something that Jay doesn't like about me, cuz I'm still waiting!!!!!!!! Frustrated but still would love to go!

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sourdough
Date: 17 Jan 00 - 02:08 AM

That is it, Paul Borsodi and Paula. That little storefront coffee shop was the folk music center of New Haven in the late Fifites and early Sixties. There were never any paid performers and I don't remember anyone ever passing a basket, we all played for the fun of it. I guess it was the folk music equivalent of a piano bar.

One of hte people who played there was a young woman with a deep voicem, Maxine who inevitably was called Max. One of the songs she used to play often was called something like, "Oh, Babe It Aint No Lie". I think she'd learned it from a Texas Gladden recording.

Several years later, I was working in Paris, teaching English. One of my students asked me about my tastes in music. I explained patiently that I liked traditional American music and wouldn't expect that he would know much about the people or the songs. He insisted on asking for details. I mentioned the Carter Family Gid Tanner, The New Lost City Ramblers and for some reason I mentioned Max's song, "Oh, Babe It Aint No Lie". He brightened right up, "I know that song." I didn't believe him and sang a little of it to show that he really didn't know THAT song. It turned out that he really did. He insisted he'd heard someone singing it at a cafe in the Latin Quarter, a woman who played on the streets around there. When he described her, I figured it was Max and sure enough, when I went to the cafe a couple of times, I found out it was. I'd found a friend from Connecticut, in Paris, through a song from Texas. And it didn't seem all that strange.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Ivan Berger
Date: 16 Jan 00 - 10:22 AM

The owners of La Gallette in '57-'58 were Bob and Paula Borsodie I don't recall if they still owned it in '61. I'm not a singer, but I did read some poetry there in '58. I remember feeling VERY grown-up, being a college (fresh)man with a beard reading poetry at a coffee house, when Paula looked at me through the gloom and said "Aren't you Lennie Berger's boy from Naugatuck?" Turns out, she'd been my dentist's assistant when I was 8.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Ivan Berger
Date: 16 Jan 00 - 10:16 AM

I think I managed to tape Paul Cadwell at the '61 festival. I was at the Woolsey Hall concert with a mike from WYBC, the Yale radio station (can't recall whether they broadcast or taped the concert, or whether I was just running PA). After the concert, I borrowed the mike and loaded my old Magnecord into the old Cadillac of Mollie Scott's boyfriend (I can remember his face, but his name won't come back until later) and drove out to the Montowese House with them, Mollie singing me a lullaby as I rested in the back seat. I taped most of that festival (the Hartman-Barriers have the tapes, though I have DAT copies). The performers I remember best were Rev. Garry Davis, Fiddler & Evelyn Beers, Hedy West, and Zola Alcantera (whatever happened to her?). Bob Dylan was there, too, but I did not tape him. The tape ran out just after he started his set, and I turned it over but did not restart it as I did not like him that much. I also went to another in the mid-60s; I forget whether that was before or after the Montowese House burned down. This time, I brought two tape recorders, and gave one set of tapes to WBAI (which immediately erased and reused them!). I'll be giving the others to Indian Neck Foundation as soon as I transcribe them (this time, to CD-R). I am missing one tape from that festival. The woman who drove me and my gear up (I only had a bike at the time) got sucked into Mel Lyman's orbit and moved up to his Fort Hill Commune, where all believed that Lyman was God. She later came down and asked to borrow the tape Lyman was on, as he wanted a copy. I offered to make one, but she said "we have better facilities up in Roxbury," so I lent it to her. Never saw it again -- I think the goal was to ensure that Lyman tapes were not in the hands of unbelievers, and if that meant depriving me of 12 other folks' performances, sobeit.

Ivan Berger Fanwood, NJ

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sourdough
Date: 16 Jan 00 - 01:18 AM

I am continually amazed at the information amazed here. WIth common interests and Six degrees of separation, it seems we cn locate anyone.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Barry Finn
Date: 15 Jan 00 - 09:05 PM

Hi Sourdough, I thought I'd let you know (you seemed to have a question about his still going about). Allen Block is still doing his leather & selling them at festivals while also palying. He'll be at the New England Folk Festival (as always) doing old banjo & selling his leather. Barry

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sourdough
Date: 15 Jan 00 - 04:59 PM

There is so much dsiscussion in the earlier postings in this thread about the way guests were invited to the Indian Neck Festival that I've been trying to recall how we put it together for the first festivals. To my surprise, I have absolutely no memory of that process, even of discussions about it This is probably because although I was on the Board of Directors I didn't have a great deal to do with that part of the planning.

The partial list of people who went in those early years that Allan S. provided from the New Havn Register is really interesting. I do also remember Carolyn Hester coming there one of the early years. Things were loose enough at that time that I think she came with her big dog (but the dog might have been with Judy Collins).

I do remember clearly that there were a lot of people there who were obviously amateurs, people who loved the music but who were not primarily performers. There were also leaders in the New York folk music community such as Izzy Young who weren't there.

Allan S's newspaper mentioned Alan Bloch being there. I don't remember that but in the years I was working with Julian Beck and Judith Malina at The Living Theatre Alan his leathercrafters provided some real atmosphere on the streets of Greenwich Village. Alan Bloch is (was?) a sandalmaker. His sandals were highly prized and although somewhat expensive, people were willing to wait the six or more months it took to have a pair custom made.

The reasons for the long wait were dual. Alan did have a long list of people waiting but he was never in a real hurry. Apparently, he wanted to just keep enough money coming in to support his way of life. He and his other leather artisans used to move out onto the sidewalk on summer days and spend and hour or two playing old-time music led by Alan on his banjo. Then when Alan, his staff and the neighborhood felt refreshed, they'd go back to work. At some point, I think in the 60s, Alan took his orders, instruments and leathecrafters to Vermont and set up shop there. Allan Bloch's mentioning of Odetta borowing his guitar at an Indian Neck concert because she was having a tuning problem reminded me of a long forgotten evening. I went down to the VIllage Gate in New York to record some performances for later broadcast from WYBC, the Yale FM station. I think Theodore Bikel was the featured act. Our Village Gate trip had two purposes. In addition to the broadcast, we were auditioning Theo Bikel's protege, Odetta Felious for performing at an Indian Neck Concerts that we ran to raise money to pay for the expenses of the people, food drink and lodging during the Indian Neck Festival weekend. What reminded me of that trip to the Village Gate was how suprised I was when I was told that even with Odetta's powerful voice and vocal musicianship as well as her poweful guitar playing, she needed her bassist, a fellow named Crow, to tune her up for performance.

Those Indian Neck Festivals on the Connecticut Shores are my favorite memories of people getting together for the sheer love of sharing the music. It has been really enjoyable, dredging up memories form that period. Are there any more out there?

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan, S
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 11:08 AM

Have found yhe Full page of the NH Register, Have already checked at STAPLES office supply store and they can make a copy so no problem. Dont mind typos as hands cold from repairing sno blower Temp here now 6 deg. F Just finishing up copy tapes of latest hoot reunion will be sending yours out soon Allan S.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sourdough
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 07:43 PM

Allan S.

I remember that "coffee house on Howe Street" very well. It was called, "La Gallette" and was my favorite place in New Haven. You could go in there on any night and find a few people with guitars and occasionally another instrument although guitars were by far the instrument of choice. There was no paid entertainment there, just the clientele in an ongoing informal nightly hoot.

Perhaps it was this thread that started me remembering that coffeeshop but the other night I dusted off a song I hadn't even thought of in decades. It's one I learned there and haven't heard anyplace since.

Some of the people around Indian Neck in those early times hadn't made any sort of reputation yet, I think. Otherwise, I am sure I would have remembered that Gordon Bok was there. Tom Paley I remembered because the NLCR were already well known in these circles. Also, I have to admit that I do not have a good record for spotting up and coming talent. I used to hang out at Goerde's Folk City in NYC (I had a job in New York and commuted from NH while in school) when Bob Dylan was there and I don't remember him at all. I do remember Phil Ochs and some of the others of that time but I sure didn't recognize the superstar.

What are the chances of getting a Xerox of the '61 article?

Is the New Haven Register the morning or evening paper in New Haven? I know the morning paper has probably disappeared by now but I was friendly with the editor of the morning paper, Lee Arens who loved folk music and would often come down to La Gallette to join us.

The owner of the cafe was someone I went to highschool as well as college with. I can't remember his name offhand but he was also a poet. He has remained both a cafe owner and a poet in the decades since then and is running a cafe, so I have been told, right near Jackson Square in New Orleans.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan S.
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 03:48 PM

Just turned up a full page of the New Haven Register 1961 all about the Fest and other going ons at that time lots of names mentionned and photos of the fest. THo my tapes have it as 1969 with the following Cliff Haslam Tom Paley Golden Nectar Jug band OLd time string band, Karl Ekland, John and TOny, Harry and Jean west, Pete Colby, Gordon Boc, Jim McGraph, Allan Block, Boc and Sarah Grey. By 1970 Dave and Jo-Anne Goldia Apple country string band Randy Burns Chet and Maggie I will have to confer with the wife as to times and places.

After the Indian Neck People graduated Yale THe Hoots seemed to split up. Some carried on as the New Haven Folk Music Soc. meeting at Yale in the "Enormous Room" Later becoming THe Branford folk music Soc. Some also carried on at a coffie house Howe St. also at a store front on Wall St run by a church in New Haven

Indian Neck continued as a once a year gathering in Modus, CT for some time, then at camp Isabella Freedman in North West CT.

I will have to see what else I can dig up Allan Schwartz

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 12:52 PM

I played with Paul (along with Abe Kanegson) on an album of Canadian dance tunes. Sounded OK, but (as far as I know) never was released.

I never figured out who and how Indian Neck invitations were decided. I was at the first one, and never heard from them until some 5 or six years ago (I attended, and had a good time, but never heard from them again.....) Guess I offended someone, but I don't recall doing so.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan S.
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 12:39 PM

Yes that was Paul Cadwell who played the banjo He would string it with Fishing line leader. As I remember he would play at ??? barn [cant remember the name] Somewhere in south west Connecticut. He refused to let anyone record him because his playing wasn't "Perfect yet". Did anyone ever record him????

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sourdough
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 10:04 PM

Allan S.

It is a long time to wait for a "thank you" but Allan, thank you for being willing to be the fiorst one out on the stage that night at WOolsey Hall. We knew it was goijg to be a long evening and we needed to get started if we were going to put on everyone who had been asked to play that night.

Do you have tapes of Indian Neck from years ago, from the 50s? I would love to hear them.

Oh, and I certainly remember Judy Collins. I thought she might well have been the most attractive woman I had ever been close to.

Joan It's extraordinary but I think that is the name of the man with the fretless banjo. I have not heard of him before or since but I remember him well. There must have been something about his presence as well as his playing.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Joan
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 09:10 PM

Sourdough, Were you thinking of Paul Cadwell who played classical music on a nylon stringed banjo? Lucky us who were treated to his amazing virtuosity! Joan

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 06:15 PM

I was invited for the first time last year, and it was one of the best folk events I've been to. I'd heard about Indian Neck a lot prior to going. I'd always wanted to go, but I knew it was a private affair, and figured I'd never get the chance. I'm still not exactly sure why, but although I'm not famous not even a good musician, I was invited. There goes the "snob" theory. I was warmly welcomed by every single person I met there.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan S.
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 02:40 PM

Hi there Sourdough Do you want copies of the tapes that I made At Indian Neck?????? THe name of the place was "The Montawese House" Sp??? It was in the Indian neck section of Branford, Ct. We transported people there back and foth in our 1953 Nash rambler. You put me on first at Wolsey Hall with 10 People out there watching Still a big thrill. Have a photo somewhere . Odetta played my 00 18 Martin when she couldn't get hers in tune. Somewhere I have all the newspaper clippings of the fest from the New Haven Register. Don't forget Judy Collins running around in her Irish green suit with the knee britches. Would you believe she held my son, now 40, on her lap when she was there. Allan S.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sourdough
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 12:13 PM

The discussion about Indian Neck, whether or not it's divisive, etc. is fascinating. When we started the festrival (and I was only involved for the first few years), we were only interested in getting people together in an informal situation in which we could participate. For this, we were willing to work hard all year producing concerts that created the revenue to put on the festival. As I recall, there was no charge then. We paid for all expenses out of the money we made with the concerts. We rented an old hotel on the shore near New Haven and sent out invitations. I no longer can remember whether "Indian Neck" was the name of the area only or also the name of the hotel. The hotel itself was what is usually described as a big old wooden ark of a place dating back to the Victorian era.

Not everyone who came to the festival was well known. The bulk of the attendees weren't or were just starting to make a reputation for themselves.

During the days, small groups of people coalesced outside, under trees, on the wide porches, just to play and sing. THe music was constant and it was joyfull.

I don't remember that there were really concerts over the weekend but people did draw audiences when they sat down and played. I remember sitting near the Blind Reverend Gary Davis whose clean, poweful and imaginative picking fascinated me. I had never heard of him, or if I had, I wasn't familiar with his music. He managed to sing some moving gospel songs while seemingly keeping an eye on every attractive woman who moved near him.

Later, Fiddler Beers set up his instrument which he explained had come around Cape Horn with one of his ancestors. Somewhere in the middle of this, Gary Davis began a sermon accompanying himself on his guitar. The message was that all these couples sitting on the floor in front of him shouldn't be down there listening to him, they should be up together in joyful beds upstairs in the hotel.

Not everyone invited was a musician. I don't think I met him but Robert Shelton whom we all knew as "the folk music guy from the New York Times" was there but I don't think the fetival ever made the papers. It was a pirvate affair and everyone accepted that.

The concerts that paid for these weekends were all different sorts. Most of them were put on using talent from agent Manny Greenhill's office. Pete Seeger did a number of concerts for us. The second year, Manny would not let us book Pete Seeger unless we also took a young new singer, Odetta Felious, in the same concert with him. I think many of us already were familiar with her but Manny also insisted that we produce another concert with a brand new singer he had discovered. For $50, we hired Joan Baez.

I was sitting in the audience when she came onstage that Saturday afternoon in Woolsey Hall in New Haven. I think the place seated 2,200 but I could be wrong. Anyway, it was not full but the stage there is large enough to seat a symphony orchestra. Out on that stage came a slim, almost insubstantial young woman with long unbound black hair, carrying a guitar, and barefoot. She looked so vulnerable that I think the audience decided before she opened her mouth that it wanted to like her.

THis must have been a big moment for Joan Baez because in the front row were her mother, father and sister. I know she had been playing in coffee shops in Boston and that area but this may have been her first concert. I don't know whether or not her family had made a special trip across the country to see this concert but there they were. I have no recollection of what Joan Baez sang that afternoon but she won the heart of this nineteen year old student who was thrilled by her clear emotional voice, that sounded so approppriate to the way she looked and presented herself onstage. Several years ago, I was working with her on a project that grew out of her wartime trip to the former Yugoslavia and had a chance to tell her of my memories of that first concert.

We hired Joan Baez several more times, each time Manny had moved her up a notch on the payscale. The last time I was involved in hiring her, we paid $2,000. That time, Woolsey Hall was full, it was an evening concert, and the ticket prices were considerably higher.

Not all the Indian Neck concerts (as opposed to festivals) were music. I had the opportunity to set up a production of Mark Twain Tonight with Hal Holbrook. That was a very successful moneyraiser for Indian Neck.

We also had a fundraising concert one year in which we asked performers who had enjoyed the festival to come and give a few songs. Cynthia Gooding came but I don't think Theodore Bikel did. Harry and Jeannie West were there. THere was an old, very thin man who played a fretless banjo and performed a few cakewalks - I wish I knew who he was. There waws a very pretty banjo player who might have been Heddy West. I met Rick and Lorainne Lee that night (I stage managed the performance) and have remained friendly with Rick ever since. For a while we worked together at WGBH in Boston. I wish I could remember the others who were there because it was a wonderful evening with perhaps fifteen or twenty acts. I couldn't pay full attention because I was dealing with the problems of a wonderfully appreciative audience. Perfomers kept sneaking in an extra song and the evening grew longer and longer. SOme of the performers, with trains to catch and other places to go were getting impatient and I had to smooth a lot of ruffled egos that felt they were not being properly appreciated. Harry and Jeannie West were the most refined, patient people there. I had never heard them sing until they walked out on that stage that night where they turned me and a lot of people into the audience into fans.

The reason I have gone on at such length is that I am a little disappointed at the charges of elitism and the epithet "Snob Hollow". We loved the music and were willing to take on the financial burden of a concert, the effort of promoting it and running it in order to finance that one weekend a year. The idea that we were being divisive would have been both foreign and hurtful. Of course, I don't know what Indian Neck is like today but that isn't how it started out.

Sourdough

Allan S. Thanks for the tapes of "Heritage" as well as for the earlier ones. I enjoy them immensely.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Joan
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 10:02 PM

I'm here, Sandy.

The parameters that limit the invitations at Indian Neck is not due to elitism or snobbery, but by the limits on space: number of beds and fire regs governing the general gathering places. Most of the attendees have been going for years, many since its beginnings in New Haven, and the place is generally filled to capacity within days of the invitations going out.

Although most of the people who go are competent, performing musicians, they all pay their way, so Kendall is right in observing that it's more of a convention than a festival where all are welcome who can buy a ticket. Before it got so crowded, it was possible for an invitee to bring a friend, but at this point it's only children, spouse or significant other.

Joan

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Judy Predmore
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:05 PM

I was thrilled a few years ago to be invited to a different invitation only gathering. I asked if maybe in a few years I'd "qualify" for Indian Neck. The situation was explained to me, that even regulars can't get in, if they don't register soon enough, due to space limitations. I replied "So, basically I have to wait for dozens of Indian Neck regulars to die, before I'd get in" & they said yes. I was disappointed, but not insulted.

Sure, I'd love to be at a gathering with more famous people than I'm used to making music with. But the famous people & their long time musical friends deserve to have a gathering of their own, with a relatively small number of people. (If you can call 100 people or so small...) It's like having the right to have a personal party once in a while.

It's physically impossible for everyone to make music with one group of people who've known each other for a long time. So if people really want to make music with people that they know, & others they'd like to know, they can start another gathering. Whoever puts the energy into organizing a gathering, should be able to invite who they want. So start your own. Most everything else in the folk world is very public, inclusive, egalitarian. There's room for a few private gatherings without divisiveness.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 07:46 PM

Be prepared to come up against other egos. They do exist there, so, if you go, be prepared to listen as well as perform.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan Schwartz
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 01:31 PM

THanks Kendall For the info. I will get in touch with Jay. Hopefully I can get up there if only for the day. Allan

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: kendall
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 10:26 AM

I/ve attended the Indian Neck gathering a few times, and I can guarantee there was nothing political about it. It is not a festival in the common sense of the word..it is a gathering of folk musicians, and whether or not you are invited depends on whether or not the promoter has ever heard of you. As far as I know, there is no attempt to divide the folk community, it is simply a matter of very limited space. It is not open to the public, so the only revenue is the fee you pay, and, I've spent a hell of a lot more than that on a weekend that didnt provide me with a fraction of the pleasure that I got at Indian Neck.The title "Snob Hollow" is quite un kind and not true.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan Schwartz
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:41 AM

All I want to do is to see some old friends again,listen to to the old songs and remember old times. Allan Schwartz

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: someone else who knows about Indian Neck
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 12:19 AM

"Festival" is very much a misnomer for Indian Neck. It's more of a convention, in which a group of folkies (number severely limited by space at the camp) get together for a long weekend that's much like a convention, with a lot of singing and playing going on. Being invited or not leads to a lot of division and hurt within a part of the folk community. Rick is spot on when he mentions the potential of this gathering to drive a wedge in the community. There are even eople I know of who could go if they wanted to, and are invited, but choose not to go because other friends of theirs are excluded. Nevertheless, the opportunity to get together with so many good musicians for a weekend is irresistable, and many of those invited do go. And the tales of long-past hurts and snubs seems too oft repeated by too many people not to have some basis in fact., for my money.

--one who knows many invitees, and more than a few non-invitees

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 12:02 AM

Just cause I'm short & can't play basketball does that mean I have to sit this one out too? Barry who wishes he were taller than an upright but doesn't quite cut the mustard.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:57 PM

I'm outta this one folks!

Rick

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: a person who knows attendees but...
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:52 PM

I'm not surprised Rick. And some of the stories would curl your hair.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:44 PM

Sheesh, well I'll never get invited, that's for sure! Please excuse the somewhat sarcastic post above. I was reacting to someone saying that a misunderstanding almost forty years ago, might have a bearing on one's invitability today. I've gotten two personal e-mails in the one hour since I posted my uninformed blather, and I'll tell ya, some folks' got opinions-big time on this one!

Rick

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: a person who knows attendees,but---
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:32 PM

fondly referred to as 'Snob Hollow' by those who don't get invited. Lots of 'famous' musicians go, and I suppose if I were famous, I'd like it. Rick, it IS quite political-and, I gather, an amazing place for music, but I shall never be invited. And probably just as well.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 11:22 PM

I've heard many wonderful things about this festival from lots of people, but I have only a few peripheral memories of it.

That said, my only connection with Indian Neck was when someone once called me to say they wanted to invite me to this fest. I said, "Good, when is it?" I was free on those dates so I said, "Great---let's do it. I can do it for whatever you generally pay others!?" They answered, "We don't pay. Our attendees pay us to come here."

Well, I was amazed. I'd never heard of a festival that, after calling a performer to invite them to play, charged them to come over 1000 miles to participate. I then said, "This must be a benefit, right? You're in need of financial help? If I can get some gigs around it to help me pay my expenses, I'll be glad to play for nothing---and I do hope that'll help you---but I really can't afford to pay you to allow me to come there after you invited me."

One thing led to another and we both got off the phone a bit spiffed at each other. I was still shaking my head---and I never did get there.

Now I realize after many years, that these good people are just coving the overhead. I know and love many involved in this festival. But the nature of things at Indian Neck didn't come clear for me until Sandy let me in on how things work there. If not for Mr. Paton I'd still be rather befuddled.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 10:14 PM

I was a graduate student, PhD 1970 (don't admit that often not in music circles) We probably have other friends in common-- Tim Woodbridge (Yale Law 1964 or so) and i live in Riegelsville PA, about three hours away. When I go up to see my youngest daughter, a senior at Brown, I can usually get to New Haven in about 3 hours.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan Schwartz
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:51 PM

Sorry Guys I have no interest in dividing anyone from any thing. Just enjoy getting to gether with old friends I have not seen in over 45 years. So you see I am not interested in who did what to who. Pete I tried to find you in the Yale alumni book 1985 ed. no luck tho. I was a townie who went to U-Conn in the 50's but did sing and play at the Hoots. Will try to Find Dave Howard in Waterbury. and contact you through him. Just dont want to put my e-mail address in here as I will probably end up with all sorts of Spam. Are you local to mother Eli?? What town?? could find you what way Allan

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 08:30 PM

Wow, an invitational folk festival? What an oppotunity for someone to divide the folk community if they feel like doing it. Sounds very scary. I suspect a lot of posterior kissing goes on. Other than political invitees, I wonder what criteria are used for inclusion.

Rick

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Pete Peterson
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 05:39 PM

I would be interested in Yale Hoot Reunions. I was at Yale 1965-70 and definitely remember Harvey Blau but not the other names mentioned. Dave Howard, who lives in Waterbury now, introduced me to the Exit coffeehouse (and I have told him repeatedly about Mudcat, sigh) I attended Indian Neck 1966-1970 but am no longer welcome due to personal issues which the Coordinator believes she has with me.

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Allan S.
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 05:35 PM

Someone said it is by invite only so I did't even try. Sourdough you must be an old Yalie We have had Yale Hoot Reunions twice a year for the past few years. I also have tapes of the old Indian neck Fests I made at that time. Interested???? I am in touch with Garry Audette, Frank Collin Geo Buchannan, Harvey Blau, Steve Gilford, To mention a few, Lots more, to many to type in. What is the best way for you to contact me????? or me you Any chance to put the two together for some sort of a bash???????? Allan S

Subject: RE: Indian Neck Memories
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 01:20 PM

The invitational Indian Neck Festival has been held for a number of years at Camp Freedman in Falls Village, CT. It's a "pay your own way" affair, too. Essentially, it's a week-end gathering of folks who enjoy making music and singing together. They rent the camp, accept the somewhat less than gourmet camp food, and bring a few kegs to liven up the activities. Jay Hartman-Berrier is coordinator, and Mudcat's Joan S. is a member of the board. It's a non-profit corporation, about which Joan could tell us more. You there, Joan?

Sandy