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BS: 2021 vaccination thread
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Bonzo3legs Date: 06 Mar 21 - 08:08 AM Not a problem then, no more than forgetting a coat when the temperature suddenly drops in April. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Mrrzy Date: 06 Mar 21 - 07:49 AM In all the shifts I have worked at the vax center, there has been 1 reaction requiring an ambulance, and 1 person who drove back 3 days after the jab to say she was still having a reaction and wanted advice. Don't know what either reaction was. Of all the folks I know personally who have had their second jab, only one had any not-just-sore-or-tired reaction, and it was a fit of shivering and feeling like they were freezing, which happened about 15 hours later and lasted about 20 mn. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jeri Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:37 PM When they recommended people with SEVERE allergies not get the vaccine, I think it was because a person's immune system may be prone to freaking out. I don't know what the status of it is now. I think it should be manageable if a person knows they might have a severe reaction, has an epi pen, and consults with the medics at the vaccine site. I'm only allergic to penicillin, and something unidentifiable in buildings in the UK that caused me to have asthma. I'm pretty sure the penicillin thing isn't a current thing.although I'll try not to get gonorrhea, I have friends who aren't so lucky (allergies, not gonorrhea). |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:13 PM Common allergies to various foodstuffs or cat hair, etc., don't count. It's an allergy to a vaccine ingredient that matters. Anyone worried can seek advice. I suppose that anyone with a whole array of allergies might have concerns that need checking out. It's easy enough to find out what's in each vaccine. Nothing's perfect, of course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jeri Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:07 PM I think it's really rare, and from what I read, it wasn't really a surprise to people who had that reaction. The ones I heard about it had epi pens. I figure if people have severe allergies, it might be predictable. Anaphylaxis is a response to an allergen - something that provokes an immune response. A vaccine provokes an immune response. Last I heard, they were advising people with severe allergies to avoid the shot. They have to have paramedics available at the vaccination sites. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Mar 21 - 07:59 PM The rate of anaphylaxis for the Pfizer vaccine is around 11 people in a million. Anaphylaxis is an extreme allergic reaction. The vast majority, if not all, of those cases involve people who are allergic to one of the ingredients in the vaccine. It's possible for anyone worried about allergy to have a pre-vaccination discussion with a health professional who specialises in allergy. To give this context, you need to consider the adverse reactions to any medical procedure. Could be to an anaesthetic at the dentist or before an operation, or to having a CT scan or an MRI scan, or a chest X-ray, or donating blood, or having a blood test, or taking paracetamol. I had an operation on my lumbar vertebrae a few years ago. Before I "went under," the surgeon leaned over me, said that there was a one in 300 chance of my dying on the operating table, and did I still want to go ahead. Too bloody right I did: I'd suffered excruciating pain for years. Can't speak for the US, but here every vaccination centre has someone there at all times who is trained to deal with the emergency of anaphylaxis. Unless you know of an allergy to a vaccine ingredient, using the extremely remote risk of anaphylaxis as an excuse to not have the jab is unacceptable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Donuel Date: 04 Mar 21 - 07:33 PM I hate anaphylaxis, but immunity or something near immunity is great. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jeri Date: 04 Mar 21 - 04:36 PM 80.5 million vaccine doses given in the USA. Side effects seem to be a sore arm and flu-like symptoms. I haven't read anything recently on people with anaphylaxis, but there's that, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Charmion Date: 04 Mar 21 - 03:33 PM We are all participants in the great uncontrolled experiment of Life, which includes many smaller experiments that may or may not be meaningfully controlled. For most of us, the vaccination campaign is like those scratch-and-win discount coupons they sometimes hand out at big department stores and supermarkets -- scratch the panel to find out if you get 10, 15, 25, 50 percent off, or the big bonanza of Everything Is Free. We know that the vaccine will help, just not precisely how much. We also don't know how likely we are to experience an "adverse reaction" (love that phrase), but so far most of us believe that it won't be much worse than a sore arm and maybe feeling crappy for a day or two. Since doing nothing seems likely to leave me more vulnerable than I would be with the jab, I'll go with the jab. There is no perfect information. That's my best guess. Incidentally, Nigel, "hinky" means "strange verging on suspicious". |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Nigel Parsons Date: 04 Mar 21 - 11:11 AM Robomatic: It still seems to me to be a little hinky on your part to have been helping out at a vax site "Hinky, what does that mean?" Sorry, Robo, gratuitous quote from Tommy Lee Jones in the film "The Fugitive" |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jeri Date: 04 Mar 21 - 11:00 AM For someone with a decent amount of training in pathogens and immune responses, it still comes off as paranoid. We can't all have had education in vaccinations, and some of us won't believe anything people tell us. I figure mind-changing is probably not a possibility. I'd love to know what it would look like to be sure about untested effects. Nobody's testing the effects, other than for immune response, which they've already done, so I think you meant something else (?), but I still wonder what it would take for you to be satisfied. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: robomatic Date: 04 Mar 21 - 10:04 AM Mrrzy: You have synopsized your concerns and I guess they are consistent with your previous posts. BUT: You are now fast approaching if not past decision time and others are part of the process, particularly if you intend to rejoin close association with the human race as it hopefully approaches this thing called herd immunity. It still seems to me to be a little hinky on your part to have been helping out at a vax site, presumably with access to all the information you could wish, and still be reluctant on your own part to get the jab. And some of your posts in between have been less than fully aware of actual covid and vaccine realities. We are ALL facing 'untested effects' by definition. I can't promise you that the jab is 100% safe. No one can. A time comes to 'fish or cut bait'. Are you afraid of a 'children of the damned' situation? "one of us! one of us! one of us!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Mar 21 - 09:58 AM Well you haven't made it clear, to me at least, what "risk factor" you think you harbour. Yes you come here to give your tuppence-worth, as do we all. But you've peppered this thread with a fair few implied or explicit negatives which you don't support particularly convincingly. There's a pandemic on that's killing people in droves, and there's been an amazing response from science in a miraculously short time with no corners cut (whatever you may think). The vaccines are safe for virtually everyone and they are effective enough to bring this pandemic crashing down in short order. We all know that nothing's perfect, and nothing would have been perfect had we waited ten years for the vaccines. Reasonable people want an end to the misery and what we don't need is unreasonable doubts being scattered all over the place. Don't have the jab. The rest of us will have to protect you, that's all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Mrrzy Date: 04 Mar 21 - 09:20 AM Wups yes the risk factor should have gone into the new news thread. *But* I was referring to my waiting for the jab till people with risk factors got'm first, even though I was offered one because of helping out at the vax site. Yes I *also* want to wait for the effects to be known. But now I have a risk factor, so, hmmm. I repeat that I am not antivax in general nor recommending anybody else not get the jab. I just wanted to wait because I was a) unsure about untested effects and b) in a group that could wait, anyway. And I was glad to be in the waiting to be last group. Now a) is still true but b) apparently isn't. So I put something in this thread, which is what it is about. My purpose in posting to *any* thread us the same,.. To add my tuppenny'orth to the ongoing conversation. Just like all y'all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Donuel Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:55 AM https://www.cbsnews.com/video/great-apes-at-san-diego-zoo-get-animal-version-of-covid-19-vaccine/#x |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Senoufou Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:34 AM Sorry, to clarify my last post, the proof of being free from TB is for people coming INTO UK FROM several countries, including from most of West Africa. No entry is permitted without this, and the aim is to prevent tuberculosis infecting residents here. I think countries/public places/anywhere that people mix have the right to insist on vaccination proof in order to protect everybody. Covid is deadly, and even if one survives, one can be terribly weakened for a very long time (eg my poor sister) My husband has been tested a third time for Covid at the school where he works. He is eagerly awaiting a call for his jab. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Donuel Date: 04 Mar 21 - 08:29 AM ibid robo same as robo post |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Senoufou Date: 04 Mar 21 - 07:21 AM Anyone entering most West African countries must have proof of a Yellow Fever vaccination. One used to have to have a booster, but now a single jab lasts for life. One cannot enter the countries there without this proof (It's like a small passport) Also, one needs proof of being free from TB, and a fairly recent X-ray document is required. I think the time will come when one will need similar proof of a Covid vaccination to be allowed to fly, book into a hotel, even enter a restaurant or bar etc. Abroad and probably here at home too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Thompson Date: 04 Mar 21 - 04:39 AM Anyone who doesn't want vaccines: would they like smallpox back? And polio? |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Bonzo3legs Date: 04 Mar 21 - 01:59 AM People who refuse the vaccine are stupidly selfish. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: robomatic Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:42 PM Mrzzy: You've been participating in this thread since early days -of the thread' and making comments as to bits you've heard and conclusions you've drawn. You even had a snipped about apparently working where vaccines were being given and somehow you imply without thought for yourself you turned down the opporunity of a jab. After this, you supplemented these messages with the information that you had no intention of getting the jab for your own reasons, which, assuming you've shared everything, which I now doubt, are not really good or well thought out reasons. You are still contributing to the thread, but for what purpose? Meanwhile, since this is a brand new pandemic, it turns out that some of the folks who get sick don't really get well. They are being called "long haulers". You can consider the administration of the vaccines in their millions, as they are now, as a massive uncontrolled experiment. But we are learning and will continue to learn, the fallout of seocndary effects from the vaccine. While this thread is vastly beyond the minor messaging available through Twitter, the back-and-forth via forum threads is no comparison to the massively complex subject that is vaccine design and administration. These are extremely complex things. If you ask an actual researcher or someone with experience (such as Dr. Fauci), you often get a long, conditional response that may not strike you as confirmatory. That is what real response sounds like. The pithy responses that you hear from those with political axes to grind, or those who only want the easy yes-or-no answer, are just that. We have had a world-wide disease that is new, but is related to SARS. It has a known kill rate, but much about it is unknown even now, and will remain so until data have been tabulated and reviewed, and more minds have spent time on it. It is known to mutate, but the significance of how much and how bad is unknown as of this date. Like the rest of life, uncertainties exist. But there is a history of vaccines and how they are developed, what they can and can't do, and this vaccine is taking place in that tradition. I think it is safe to say that most reports are that where the vaccine is administered, the sickness and death counts get significantly better. So these vaccines have been tested to be safe and effective, and that seems to be borne out by numbers from around the world. The idea of herd immunity is that once a high percentage of the population is vaccinated, incidence and transmission fall. At some point, transmission falls to zero. There are people who never get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, but they obtain their safety by the majority of their fellows being vaccinated. Maybe you do not believe in this stuff. At least you should say so. Your objections or relegation to quibbling on details do not sound like that of someone who is endangered by the vaccine; Rather,they sound like someone who doesn't believe that it applies to themself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Mar 21 - 05:43 PM Well, again, let's be clear and not propagate misinformation. Risk factors regarding susceptibility to infection or to severe disease apropos of your blood group/blood type may well vary according to what you've got. That is to be expected and is normal, in that our genetics are all different, including blood groups. But this is not a susceptibility-to-coronavirus thread. It's a vaccination thread. The risk factors you refer to have nothing to do with the vaccines. I haven't seen any evidence that any vaccine is any more dangerous to any specific blood type. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, it looks like you're clutching at straws. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Mar 21 - 04:41 PM Hmm... better info is appearing on blood group stuff. Group A is, like they said a while back and then weren't so sure, more at risk. Well, there goes my "I have no risk factors" thought... Not putting my link here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Mar 21 - 07:34 PM Let's just be really clear here. No "stem cells" were used either in the production or testing of our current vaccines. The cells that WERE used are thousands of generations down the line from the original stem cells and were not obtained from aborted foetuses. Now we know how they originated, and it's down to each one of us to make a moral judgement for ourselves. But we should take into account the fact that the vaccines are going to save hundreds of thousands of lives. To coin a cliche, we are where we are, and even the Vatican, reluctantly I'm sure, recognises that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Mrrzy Date: 02 Mar 21 - 06:46 PM The stem cells were cloned from a 1970's fetus. All used them in development / research but J&J also use them in production. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jeri Date: 02 Mar 21 - 06:19 PM From Nebraska Medicine: To make their virus vector vaccine, Johnson & Johnson infects PER.C6 fetal cell line cells with adenovirus. All PER.C6 cells used to manufacture the Johnson & Johnson vaccine are descended from tissue taken from a 1985 elective abortion that also took place in the Netherlands.?They use this cell line because it is a well-studied industry standard for safe and reliable production of viral vector vaccines. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:42 PM I've just read carefully the Vatican statement you posted. Within the context of the Church's anti-abortion position, I think the judgement is measured and wise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:36 PM He did, and I hope that does enough. I can well understand people with views on abortion different to mine having a bigger tussle with their conscience than I have. I just hope that there's not going to be conflation with the issues that vaccine-doubters with other reasons harbour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jeri Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:24 PM The Pope says the vaccine is kosher. Well, maybe my terminology is a little off, but the vaccine is ok. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:14 PM It is highly possible but not certain that the embryonic kidney cells came from an electively-aborted foetus. It's worth pointing out, though it won't mollify everyone, that the cell line from that culture is immortal and that the process by which those cells were originally obtained will never have to be repeated. There is no recipe for future abortions. I suppose it's possible to argue, as I will, that, whatever your stance on abortion, the abortion did happen, it didn't happen specifically to get those cells, and that, by using the descendants of those cells to produce a vaccine, at least some good came out of bad. I can respect the unhappiness that many people will feel about this, but the vaccine is now out there and is going to save countless thousands of lives. As I said, good coming out of bad. I can live with myself on that, and it has nothing to do with what I think about abortion in general. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jos Date: 02 Mar 21 - 04:22 PM Regarding the stem cells, this is from my post on 22 January after I had the Oxford vaccine: 'On leaving, I was given a small card with my name on it, the date, and the vaccine type and batch number, and a sheet of paper to read, which includes near the top: "Read all of this leaflet carefully before the vaccine is given because it contains important information for you." There is a list of possible side effects, but the bit of information that does worry me is that the vaccine is: "Produced in genetically modified human embryonic kidney (HEK) 293 cells."' I investigated this on line and discovered that the HEK cells originated from an abortion in the Netherlands in the 1970s. It is likely that the J&J vaccine also uses those cells. But perhaps the Catholics who were "told the J&J vaccine is immoral" [who by?] have checked the facts themselves and made up their own minds about the morality of the vaccine, rather than waiting to be told by the Pope. The Pope has decreed that use of these cells is acceptable in the absence of an alternative. I looked for a vaccine that doesn't use them but all I found was one that is undergoing tests, which uses African Green Monkey cells - which strikes me as more immoral as there must be far fewer African green monkeys than there are people.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 02 Mar 21 - 02:57 PM Do tell us more about those stem cells. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Mrrzy Date: 02 Mar 21 - 02:39 PM Have you heard Catholics in some places are being told the J&J vaccine is immoral, even tho the pope said it's ok? Stem cells are involved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Rain Dog Date: 02 Mar 21 - 01:57 PM Had a letter yesterday from the NHS about booking the vaccination. Went online this afternoon and booked in for first jab this Friday. Have to travel to Folkestone for it so will be getting the bus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 02 Mar 21 - 01:44 PM "Why is Covid Killing People of Colour?" (BBC documentary, 21:00 2/3/2021) As with rickets, EVOLUTION - darker skin DOES require more sunlight for enough vitamin D to be healthy & the UK is too far north of the equator for many BAME; my WalkaboutsVerse poem on "Repatriating" |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Senoufou Date: 02 Mar 21 - 07:35 AM Husband just told me that they're starting vaccinations in Abidjan (Ivory Coast) Using the Astra-Zeneca one. However, he was shocked to hear from his sister that nobody is wearing a mask, keeping a distance or even acknowledging that the virus is about! One of his nieces is organising a Muslim baptism in a few days' time for her little son, and over a hundred people will be there, including most of the local mosque congregation. He's so worried, and I don't blame him. I heard him on his mobile phone bellowing at his family for even considering attending. There must be cases in Abidjan if they're starting vaccination. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Donuel Date: 01 Mar 21 - 09:37 PM It turns out that Trump was secretly vaccinated January of this year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Bonzo3legs Date: 01 Mar 21 - 04:27 PM And they won't be my friends either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 01 Mar 21 - 03:27 PM "If you were correct, there would be no need to wear masks or social distance." If who was correct about what? You can't force anyone to stand still while someone stabs a needle into you. But, I must admit, I haven't got any time for refusers. There may come a time when shops and airlines ask you to prove that you've been done, but I doubt it. In the not-too-distant future, numbers will be very low, all being well, and the perceived need for that will have receded (though international travel may take longer). New variants, plus the refusers, will probably ensure that we'll have to live with the virus but just stay vigilant. All those people who have taken the vaccine will have done their bit. Dunno what twisted nonsense the anti-vaxxers will be coming out with then. They won't be my friends, that's for sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jos Date: 01 Mar 21 - 03:16 PM Perhaps it should be either a certificate saying the person has been vaccinated, OR a certificate saying they have antibodies to the virus (through having had the virus itself). |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Senoufou Date: 01 Mar 21 - 02:50 PM Mine was the Asda Vinegar one. I don't think one can compel people to be vaccinated, but I think what will happen is that airline travel, entry into public places such as shops, hotels etc and using public transport will be limited to The Vaccinated, proven by special vaccination 'passports'. There's talk at the moment about introducing some form of verification for people to show. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Jeri Date: 01 Mar 21 - 01:58 PM As to vaccines "stopping the spread", check this. Stopping the spread means the person hadn't already been infected when they were vaccinate. It means they weren't among the very small number of people who were infected despite being vaccinated, which is a higher number if one received the J&J shot. If you were correct, there would be no need to wear masks or social distance. A vaccine can HELP stop the spread, but doesn't guarantee anything. And an anti-vaxxer is an anti-vaxxer. They all have some non-scientific, fearful (or downright paranoid) reasons. Unfortunately, I've had a great deal of training in pathogens and immunity, including supervising an immunization clinic at a US Air Force base hospital. Thinking that a few years will show some weird, unpredictable side effects is nuts, IMO. You're entitled to believe what you want. I'm sure there are still people who believe the MMR causes autism. Fundamentally, for me, it's not worth an argument which would be based on facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Mar 21 - 01:09 PM I'm not sure if ours were the Vauxhall Astra or the Michelle Pfeiffer ones. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:37 PM Har har! You've gotta get up early, Dave! I had mine yesterday, the Pfizer, didn't feel a thing and, so far, have had no after-effects whatsoever. Mrs Steve had hers three weeks ago, Astra-Zeneca, ditto. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM Damn you Shaw! :-D |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Dave the Gnome Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM 300! We had ours 3 weeks ago to make this more relevent |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:25 PM That's a downside all right. But it's important that new data is interpreted, as carefully as possible, to the public, as it rolls out. It's equally important that we remain vigilant about misinformation being disseminated. The best way to counter it is with accurate and clear statements about the way things really are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Stilly River Sage Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:18 PM There are many things that weren't tested for because it took too long; there will be results as the vaccines are distributed and recipients respond to CDC queries. I joined a study by phone and over the next six weeks have answered questions about symptoms following the inoculations. Those may be less scientific because not everyone joins, but any information helps. Scientists working on treating COVID-19 eventually hope to be able to say that the vaccines not only stop recipients from catching COVID-19, but vaccinated people won't catch or spread it. Like polio or smallpox. But the claims must await the test of time. In the meantime, their qualified remarks give the anti-vaxxers a target to shoot at, as willfully-uninformed as they are about the whole thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Steve Shaw Date: 01 Mar 21 - 11:58 AM Mrrzy: "The vaccines do not, therefore, prevent you spreading the virus." Jeri: "Mrrzy's right. The vaccines haven't been tested for ability to stop the spread." Mrrzy is NOT right. He said that the vaccines don't stop the spread. As you rightly say, the vaccines haven't been tested for that. "Not tested for it" does NOT mean the same thing as "they don't do it." I hate to keep saying it, but spreading negative misinformation about vaccines plays straight into the hands of anti-vaxxers. Let's try to not do that in this thread at least. Your link says "Experts continue to conduct more studies about the effect of COVID-19 vaccination on severity of illness from COVID-19, as well as its ability to keep people from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19. When the vaccines were developed, the priority was to establish their efficacy and their safety. The urgency of getting the vaccines out precluded at that stage testing for the ability to prevent spread. That matters, but not as urgently as efficacy and safety. The data will continue to roll in. That's how it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread From: Nigel Parsons Date: 01 Mar 21 - 10:58 AM From: Mrrzy Date: 28 Feb 21 - 05:49 PM . . . I am not getting vaccinated if I can help it, not for any of the silly reasons above, but for my own, silly to some, reasons. First, I have no comorbidities, second, I am still (for another 12 days) in my fifties, so for both of those reasons I am content to wait my actual turn, which I hope won't be for years. And that is because of reason 3, which is untested technologies. I would like to see the vaccine tested for at least 3 and preferably 5 years, as all vaccines should be. In 3-5 years, we should know more about mRNA vaccines with nanoparticles, and about coronovirus variants. I assume that you mean that you are happy to see it tested on other people before you accept the security it gives based on others taking any (miniscule) risk. If everyone took that attitude the drugs would never be tested and we would still see people dying in much greater numbers than they currently are as we would never see the emergence of a tested vaccine. And there would be many, many more carriers who could possibly infect you (and others). |
