BS: 2021 vaccination thread

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Apr 21 - 03:33 PM

Congrats Tattie, I think that even the reported problems indicate such a low incidence of secondary effects that the overall situation is outstandingly good as far as vaccine quality and efficacy is concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Apr 21 - 02:32 PM

My husband and I both have our 2nd vaccinations next week: both survived Astra Zeneca unscathed for our first one, but maybe "Wish me luck as you wave me goodbye"............

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Apr 21 - 09:46 AM

We have "paused" J&J. Most folks being rescheduled for Pfizer, here.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 11:55 AM

With the entire population slated to hopefully receive the vaccine, and with people suffering from various ailments at any given time, the coincidence of someone receiving a vaccine near the time some other health event happens is probably higher than 1 in a million. Determining if these clots are coincidence or an extremely rare yet treatable side effect is going to slow a lot of people from getting the much-needed vaccine. Being aware of the clotting issue and the treatments (and if someone begins to have a problem get a blood test and find out about the platelets) seems a prudent warning label, but please, go ahead and give the vaccines. Far more people will die of COVID if they don't receive it. The odds are working against those who might get clots, so be vigilant, but get the vaccine.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 11:21 AM

"Vaccinnee..." Bwahahaha!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 10:38 AM

By comparison, consider the incidence of Reye's syndrome, which is associated by the use of aspirin in young people who have other issues going on. It affects less than one in a million among young people. It is associated with aspirin, and when it occurs it can be deadly serious. There is usually a warning on an aspirin box if you look for it.

There is no causal relation between Reye's syndrome and the incidence of blood clots for a very small, very very small, proportion of vaccinnees. In the case of AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson we are still on a learning curve, and the phenomenon of vaccine resistance is substantial, including some in this thread.

At this point in time, I think there are valid doubts as to whether or not we're going to obtain herd immunity anywhere. This is serious because it will lead to more people getting sick with Covid variants, and we could get into a 'chasing-our-tail' situation.

The lesson is: Get those vaccines into people, but do the research because the nay-sayers are gonna neigh their lungs out without doing any research.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 02:36 PM

They are keeping watch for unusual/dangerous side effects both here in the UK and Europe. The usual process for any new drug/vaccine.

Here in the UK, Alison Astles, the sister of Neil Astles who died from a blood clot, spoke very eloquently urging people not to be put off from having the jab. She is a pharmacist and felt she had a responsibility to speak out "because, overall, we will save more lives by people having the vaccine than not".

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 01:56 PM

I remember them saying the incidence of blood clots in patients who received the Astrazeneca vaccine wasn't higher than that of the general population. (Maybe something's changed?) I don't know what's going on with the J&J. It SHOULD be investigated. None of these vaccines are approved by the FDA (or whatever the British equivalent would be) so they need to be extra watchful. I'm still answering CDC questionnaires regarding side effect of the Moderna one.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 01:36 PM

I couldn't possibly comment!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 01:20 PM

This was posted in a Facebook political group:

Feel free to do the math...

Over 7 million people in the US have received the Johnson & Johnson COVID vaccine - 6 developed a rare blood clot side effect and sadly, one person died from it.

The response has been to pause the distribution and use of the vaccine. 1-in-7 million...

The US currently averages 3.96 deaths per 100,000 due to gun violence. Nearly 20,000 deaths last year. The response has been higher gun sales... and no meaningful control efforts on the horizon.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 01:16 PM

As I understand it the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson (Janssen as it is known in Europe) are similar types of vaccine.

Here in the UK there was some debate as to how rare that type of blood clot was in the pre-covid population. I don't recall seeing any further information on that.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 10:36 AM

The recommondation in the US for the J&J vaccine is to pause its use because in rare cases platletes drop and open people to a cerebral blood clot. Care givers may decide to use it depending on risk factors.
6 rare cases of blood clot have been seen.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 10:28 AM

From the BBC site in the Last hour

++
Johnson & Johnson says it's going to delay the rollout of its vaccine in Europe, and is reviewing cases of extremely rare blood clots in a small number of people who've received the jab.

US health officials earlier called for a pause on Johnson & Johnson's single-dose vaccinations, after six people there developed a rare disorder involving blood clots.
++

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 04:32 AM

From The Guardian website reporting on an interview on BBC radio 4 this morning.

++
Fauci says that US may not 'need' to use Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine
US infectious disease official Dr Anthony Fauci has been on the media in the UK this morning, and said if safety concerns about AstraZeneca’s Covid-19 vaccine were straightened out it had good efficacy, but it might not be needed for Americans because of supplies of other shots.

“I think that the AstraZeneca vaccine from a standpoint of efficacy is a good vaccine, and if the safety issue gets straightened out in the European Union … the efficacy of that vaccine is really quite good,” he told BBC radio.

“The way the United States has made contractual relationships with a number of companies, we clearly have enough vaccine – or will get enough vaccine – that does not include AstraZeneca, which would be enough quantitatively to vaccinate everybody in the United States.”

Reuters reports that he added: “Whether or not we ever use AZ is unclear but it looks right now at this point in time that we will not need it. It’s not a negative indictment of AZ, it is just possible that given the supply that we have from other companies that we may not need to use an AZ vaccine.”

So far, 120.8 million people have received one or both doses of a vaccine in the US, and the Joe Biden administration has been keen to emphasise the speed at which it is being administered.
++

I don't know how many AstraZeneca vaccines the US has in store rather than on order. Perhaps they might think about offering some of them to other countries now rather than later.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Apr 21 - 11:55 PM

Kati Kariko Helped Shield the World From the Coronavirus. I've read about her before.

Collaborating with devoted colleagues, Dr. Kariko laid the groundwork for the mRNA vaccines turning the tide of the pandemic.

She grew up in Hungary, daughter of a butcher. She decided she wanted to be a scientist, although she had never met one. She moved to the United States in her 20s, but for decades never found a permanent position, instead clinging to the fringes of academia.

Now Katalin Kariko, 66, known to colleagues as Kati, has emerged as one of the heroes of Covid-19 vaccine development. Her work, with her close collaborator, Dr. Drew Weissman of the University of Pennsylvania, laid the foundation for the stunningly successful vaccines made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

For her entire career, Dr. Kariko has focused on messenger RNA, or mRNA — the genetic script that carries DNA instructions to each cell’s protein-making machinery. She was convinced mRNA could be used to instruct cells to make their own medicines, including vaccines.

But for many years her career at the University of Pennsylvania was fragile. She migrated from lab to lab, relying on one senior scientist after another to take her in. She never made more than $60,000 a year.

By all accounts intense and single-minded, Dr. Kariko lives for “the bench” — the spot in the lab where she works. She cares little for fame. “The bench is there, the science is good,” she shrugged in a recent interview. “Who cares?”

Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institutes of Allergy and infectious Diseases, knows Dr. Kariko’s work. “She was, in a positive sense, kind of obsessed with the concept of messenger RNA,” he said.

Dr. Kariko’s struggles to stay afloat in academia have a familiar ring to scientists. She needed grants to pursue ideas that seemed wild and fanciful. She did not get them, even as more mundane research was rewarded.

“When your idea is against the conventional wisdom that makes sense to the star chamber, it is very hard to break out,” said Dr. David Langer, a neurosurgeon who has worked with Dr. Kariko.

Dr. Kariko’s ideas about mRNA were definitely unorthodox. Increasingly, they also seem to have been prescient.

“It’s going to be transforming,” Dr. Fauci said of mRNA research. “It is already transforming for Covid-19, but also for other vaccines. H.I.V. — people in the field are already excited. Influenza, malaria.”

The rest is found following the link.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Apr 21 - 11:39 PM

I got the Pfizer shots in January and February. I felt a bit lethargic for a few days after, but no other symptoms. I felt ecstatic that I had the vaccine and now could start a bit more activity around town. I'm still careful, wear a mask, keep my distance, but am glad that chances are excellent if I came into contact, I wouldn't end up in the hospital. That's what is important.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Apr 21 - 09:10 PM

Congratulations Mrrzy. "One of us, one of us, one of us....."


Seriously, hope you have no side effects and the vaccine protects you as it seems to be protecting most people.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Apr 21 - 08:21 PM

Hooray, Mrrzy, and welcome to the, er, stadium.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Apr 21 - 06:28 PM

I walked in for my shift today and they pulled me out and jabbed me. Pfizer. Well, 6 months of data are better than none...

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Apr 21 - 07:22 PM

Alaska is the most vaccinated of U.S. States.

Our death numbers are down to nothing. Our infection counts are going up somewhat. There are many people living north of Anchorage who are politically opposed to the vaccine, even though former Governor Sarah Palin came down with the disease and advised people to get vaccinated. I believe we are experiencing younger people who are getting themselves exposed by flouting the exposure guidelines.

I had a conversation with a health care worker who is in their 20s. They got their two shots of Moderna and were sick for three days after each jab. That is the toughest reaction I've learned about. They were told it was a tribute to their immune system. They are fully back to normal now.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Apr 21 - 12:42 AM

How Wisconsin turned around its lagging vaccination program — and buoyed a Biden health pick

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Apr 21 - 07:54 PM

Oh Mrrzy, you should get yours, of all people! Hope you are quicker on the draw next time there’s a spare one going!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Apr 21 - 05:59 PM

Ok so my site had one single dose that was going to go to waste so I said I'd take it but when I got up front someone else who worked there had called a friend in and given it to them.
So whew!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Apr 21 - 05:35 PM

I posted this on the new news about the pandemic thread and was requested to post it here as well.

---

This is HUGE news!

Researchers Are Hatching a Low-Cost Coronavirus Vaccine

A new formulation entering clinical trials in Brazil, Mexico, Thailand and Vietnam could change how the world fights the pandemic.

From the article (a big middle chunk of it, in case it can't be read outside the US):

But simply injecting coronavirus spike proteins into people is not the best way to vaccinate them. That’s because spike proteins sometimes assume the wrong shape, and prompt the immune system to make the wrong antibodies.

This insight emerged long before the Covid-19 pandemic. In 2015, another coronavirus appeared, causing a deadly form of pneumonia called MERS. Jason McLellan, a structural biologist then at the Geisel School of Medicine at Dartmouth, and his colleagues set out to make a vaccine against it.

They wanted to use the spike protein as a target. But they had to reckon with the fact that the spike protein is a shape-shifter. As the protein prepares to fuse to a cell, it contorts from a tulip-like shape into something more akin to a javelin.

Scientists call these two shapes the prefusion and postfusion forms of the spike. Antibodies against the prefusion shape work powerfully against the coronavirus, but postfusion antibodies don’t stop it.

Dr. McLellan and his colleagues used standard techniques to make a MERS vaccine but ended up with a lot of postfusion spikes, useless for their purposes. Then they discovered a way to keep the protein locked in a tulip-like prefusion shape. All they had to do was change two of more than 1,000 building blocks in the protein into a compound called proline.

The resulting spike — called 2P, for the two new proline molecules it contained — was far more likely to assume the desired tulip shape. The researchers injected the 2P spikes into mice and found that the animals could easily fight off infections of the MERS coronavirus.

The team filed a patent for its modified spike, but the world took little notice of the invention. MERS, although deadly, is not very contagious and proved to be a relatively minor threat; fewer than 1,000 people have died of MERS since it first emerged in humans.

But in late 2019 a new coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, emerged and began ravaging the world. Dr. McLellan and his colleagues swung into action, designing a 2P spike unique to SARS-CoV-2. In a matter of days, Moderna used that information to design a vaccine for Covid-19; it contained a genetic molecule called RNA with the instructions for making the 2P spike.

Other companies soon followed suit, adopting 2P spikes for their own vaccine designs and starting clinical trials. All three of the vaccines that have been authorized so far in the United States — from Johnson & Johnson, Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech — use the 2P spike.

Other vaccine makers are using it as well. Novavax has had strong results with the 2P spike in clinical trials and is expected to apply to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use authorization in the next few weeks. Sanofi is also testing a 2P spike vaccine and expects to finish clinical trials later this year.

Two prolines are good; six are better

Dr. McLellan’s ability to find lifesaving clues in the structure of proteins has earned him deep admiration in the vaccine world. “This guy is a genius,” said Harry Kleanthous, a senior program officer at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. “He should be proud of this huge thing he’s done for humanity.”

But once Dr. McLellan and his colleagues handed off the 2P spike to vaccine makers, he turned back to the protein for a closer look. If swapping just two prolines improved a vaccine, surely additional tweaks could improve it even more.

“It made sense to try to have a better vaccine,” said Dr. McLellan, who is now an associate professor at the University of Texas at Austin.

In March, he joined forces with two fellow University of Texas biologists, Ilya Finkelstein and Jennifer Maynard. Their three labs created 100 new spikes, each with an altered building block. With funding from the Gates Foundation, they tested each one and then combined the promising changes in new spikes. Eventually, they created a single protein that met their aspirations.

The winner contained the two prolines in the 2P spike, plus four additional prolines found elsewhere in the protein. Dr. McLellan called the new spike HexaPro, in honor of its total of six prolines.

The structure of HexaPro was even more stable than 2P, the team found. It was also resilient, better able to withstand heat and damaging chemicals. Dr. McLellan hoped that its rugged design would make it potent in a vaccine.

Dr. McLellan also hoped that HexaPro-based vaccines would reach more of the world — especially low- and middle-income countries, which so far have received only a fraction of the total distribution of first-wave vaccines.

“The share of the vaccines they’ve received so far is terrible,” Dr. McLellan said.

To that end, the University of Texas set up a licensing arrangement for HexaPro that allows companies and labs in 80 low- and middle-income countries to use the protein in their vaccines without paying royalties.

Meanwhile, Dr. Innis and his colleagues at PATH were looking for a way to increase the production of Covid-19 vaccines. They wanted a vaccine that less wealthy nations could make on their own.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Apr 21 - 01:40 PM

Ah yes, Mrrzy, you’re right about the older typhoid and cholera shots and the gamma globulin. But most of these have been replaced by longer-lasting vaccines. e.g. the current typhoid vaccination offered in the UK for overseas travel needs a booster every 3 years. Boosters for polio recommended after 10 years if fully vaccinated before and travelling to affected areas.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 09:15 AM

And kids in Virginia have to show they've had their shots for school, I just remembered. So not new at all.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Apr 21 - 09:14 AM

Not so, Tattie Bogle. We had to get cholera and typhoid shots every other year, for exampke. Gamma globulin was every two years in the 60s but up to every 6 months by the late 70s. And there were lots more.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 07:28 PM

The difference is, Mrrzy, that those other vaccinations gave you long-lasting or even lifetime immunity to said diseases. The jury is still out on how long immunity lasts after COVID vaccination, and therefore what faith or validity you could place on COVID vaccination certificates.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 06:01 PM

All through my embassy brat days we had health cards to show with passports while traveling, that said if we had the vaccines needed to go places. Nothing strange there.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 11:48 AM

Just saw that a plane-load of people flew from Gatwick (UK) to Alicante (Spain): the majority of them were sent back straight away. Only Spanish nationals returning home were allowed in. Don't think vaccinated or not came into it!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 03:19 AM

Re travel restrictions within the US

Following an item on BBC radio this morning, I had a look at the CDC recommendations for travel with the USA.It says that if you are fully vaccinated you can travel within the US and do not have to self quarantine on arrival. It does also state you should follow local recommendations too.

How does this work in practice. Do airlines, hotels etc ask for proof?

I ask the question because here in the UK there is talk of maybe people having 'vaccine passports' in the near future.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 07:45 AM

Still just directing traffic [more foot than vehicle now] at that pool *but* the data are looking better and better. I am likely to take the jab when my turn rolls around. I would prefer 3 to 5 years of data, but am predicting June.

Meanwhile, my vax site has started jabbing anybody in 1b. Finally. You can walk in if you are over 65, or claim an underlying health issue, or work with people.

We count a lot of things as underlying health issues, too. One super-ethical dude hung out looking through the list of co-morbidities, then didn't claim any, though I bet his bmi was higher than 25.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 10:51 AM

Our shots are good for about year but 3 to 5 varient vaccines should be developed. Currently a 4th wave is growing in the US. We don't know the full impact of varient spread . Dr. Brilliant who cured smallpox says the globe will never reach herd immunity and will chase varients ad infinitum. The UK varient is now found to be more severe. All in all bad news but even a small feeling of reprieve is being enjoyed with the return of the sun.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 07:41 PM

Mrrzy, I haven't read here that you've actually got the shot(s), or did I miss it? Are you walking round and round the pool, or have you taken a dive?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 04:31 PM

Data are a -cummin in that the 2-shot vaxes do prevent infection, not just illness, yay!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:50 AM

Of its 30,000 employees the NIH has documented its first case of a fully vaccinated person contracting Covid. The person's virus has not yet been sequenced so the variant possibility is still an open question. This ongoing and new incident may be small odds of a vaccine failure or something else.

Mrrzy the technology in the production of micro fine thin needles makes shots painless today compared to the 'spikes' of the past.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Mar 21 - 09:15 AM

Of its 30,000 employees the NIH has documented its first of a fully vaccinated person contracting Covid. The person has not yet been sequenced so the variant possibility id dtill an open question. This ongoing and new incident here may be small odds of vaccine failure or something else.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Mar 21 - 06:09 PM

Allan Sherman

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Mar 21 - 03:38 PM

If you have to take vaccine
Take it orallyyyyy
For you know the other way
Can most painful beeeee

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 Mar 21 - 08:02 AM

Overmorrow is the word that comes to mind!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 04:45 PM

We are now half vaccinated but have another 5 weeks to an all clear of sorts.
We have all been careful as the saying goes but mostly we've been lucky.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jos
Date: 17 Mar 21 - 04:42 PM

Today I heard a new word (new to me, anyway):

Vaccinee.

(Or at least, I don't think it was 'vaccine-knee'.)

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 21 - 03:40 PM

CVS is now vaccinating with Pfizer in the store after a 5 day registraation for an appointment. No age requirment except no children.
I saw it with my own eyes, not yours.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Mar 21 - 02:31 PM

My husband's extremely elderly mother has been vaccinated in Adjame (district of Abdijan) Apparently it was the Oxford Astra-Zeneca vaccine. We're very pleased. But the family is now planning a huge baptism celebration and there will be dozens attending, unmasked and undistanced. Husband is furious, but they seem oblivious to the dangers.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Mar 21 - 05:53 PM

The A-Z vaccine trials checked for infection constantly, while the Pfizer/Moderna looked for people showing symptoms of COVID.
Seriously? In trials Pfizer/Moderna were looking for symptoms for something which we already knew could be carried asymptomatically?

Looks like another bonus for Astra-Zeneca.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Mar 21 - 04:02 PM

In the future I expect to get booster varient vaccines as common as a flu shot.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Mar 21 - 03:52 AM

An interesting video from November says that the trials of Moderna & Pfizer differed from the Astra Zenica/Oxford vaccine by one detail that surprised me. (6:30 mins in)

The A-Z vaccine trials checked for infection constantly, while the Pfizer/Moderna looked for people showing symptoms of COVID. Which explains the early result differing, which even Dr Fauci reckoned long-term statistics would show a migration to a similar efficacy.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Mar 21 - 03:31 PM

Over 50, in England, I'm due to get my first jab within a month, I think; and vaccinations are at least one thing we've done well at.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Mar 21 - 03:24 PM

The local radio channel just broadcast a news "soundbite"
quoting ... hmm ... who were they quoting? ...
that 10% of the United States population is vaccinated now.

We in the US really ought to do better than 10% -- ...

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Mar 21 - 12:35 PM

The US has millions of the AstraZeneca in surplus because it has been produced here but hasn't been approved here. Other countries that have approved it need those vaccines and it would behoove the US to give those vaccines to the places that can use them now.

The U.S. Is Sitting on Tens of Millions of Vaccine Doses the World Needs

Those tens of millions of doses from AstraZeneca are waiting for trial results, while countries that authorized the vaccine beg to have them.

WASHINGTON — Tens of millions of doses of the coronavirus vaccine made by the British-Swedish company AstraZeneca are sitting idly in American manufacturing facilities, awaiting results from its U.S. clinical trial while countries that have authorized its use beg for access.

The fate of those doses of AstraZeneca’s vaccine is the subject of an intense debate among White House and federal health officials, with some arguing the administration should let them go abroad where they are desperately needed while others are not ready to relinquish them, according to senior administration officials.

AstraZeneca is involved in those conversations.