BS: 2021 vaccination thread

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:32 AM

No - slipped finger on iphone, profit £300!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Allan Conn
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:17 AM

I think you can't compare like for like efficacy because how they carried out the tests etc and how they worked out the efficacy differs. Both the main ones currently being distributed in the UK supposedly have high efficacy though which is the main thing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:55 AM

What is the story of the illegal parties/ paid for catching COVID? It doesn't make sense as presented here?

I wish more municipalities or other entities (counties and states, primarily) would take this more seriously. Portions of those entities are; the ones providing the shots are deadly serious about eliminating the virus, but the rest of their agencies seem unconcerned about enforcement. New York State has done a better job than a lot of places.

It's interesting to read this week that the state that did the best job so far in getting the vaccines into senior centers and assisted living is West Virginia. They declined federal government participation and instead contracted throughout the state with lots of pharmacies to do the job (many states just go with the two biggest pharmacy corporations, Walgreens and CVS, found on every other street corner in urban settings.) Here is the story on CNN.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 01:43 PM

I had my first shot today - the AZ Oxford one - and have a date for the second jab in April, 12 weeks away. There was a short wait in a queue, seated inside, then I left straight after the jab with no waiting around. All done and dusted in less than 10 minutes.

The system was well set up for social distancing and the plastic chairs in the waiting area were cleaned as each one was vacated.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 04:48 PM

Still no word of vaccinations for us, but husband was tested today at his school, along with all the other cleaners. This seems a bit daft to me. One could be tested today, it could come back as negative, then one could contract Covid the very next morning!
Apparently, the High School pupils won't be returning to school until the end of April. But there are several children of key workers attending now. Husband is cleaning pupils' and teachers' toilets and I think he's at risk. Being BAME as well, he's rather vulnerable.
Bring on the vaccinations ASAP!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 05:22 PM

Noreen My source was Reuters right off the wire. It certainly is a progressing story but a denial is seldom the final word.

As Thompson says https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/26/astrazeneca-supplies-to-eu-vaccine-efficacy-for-the-elderly-in-focus.html

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:33 PM

In the U.S. you can donate blood after the Pfizer or Moderna jab, but there is a deferral for a time after the Astrazenica jab.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:54 PM

I caught a disease called Q Fever in 1990. I was banned from giving blood for life.

By the way, try to not catch Q Fever....

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 08:32 PM

Especially on a Saturday Night

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:49 PM

I don't know why but that made me LOL.

So WTF is Q Fever? Does it lead to R, S, or T disease?

Vowel disorder?

Inconsonants?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:58 PM

Holy Crap! I just looked it up!

It is nothing to sneeze at!

I'm afraid that if I even mention it next time I go to the blood bank they'll evict me!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:28 PM

That is quite a fever that few if any have heard of.

Number of available doses are going to go up within the next three weeks here in the US, but it will still be a struggle because making vaccine involves a lot of quality control and materials (a story recently ran on the news about the glass vials the vaccine is shipped in being in short supply - and how a new method of micro-layering a gaseous glass just a few molecules thick onto a special type of plastic to make vials that are air tight.) It's not like they can just double the batch.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 08:06 AM

I didn't progress to pneumonia but I had a high fever for four days, boy did I sweat, and horrible gastrointestinal issues at both ends. One afternoon I collapsed on the bathroom floor. I had a ferocious headache that took months to fade after I'd recovered from the fever. I didn't know what I'd had until a blood test weeks later showed up Q Fever (Coxiella) antibodies. Just before I'd caught it the farmer next door to us had allowed me to help myself to his dung heap (horses and cows) for my veg garden. I'm pretty sure it was the dust from that that infected me.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Senoufou
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 10:22 AM

I caught Giardiasis in Ghana many years ago. Stupidly brushed my teeth at the cold tap in the hotel in Accra. (Bottled water please, never ever the tap!) My face literally went grey, most odd. Constant loo-visits, terrible abdo pain. Took two courses of antibiotics to get rid of it.
In most West African countries, one needs a current certificate of immunisation against Yellow Fever in order to be permitted entry. I had my injection at our local surgery, and the nurse told me I might have some 'mild flu-like symptoms'.
That night, I woke up flat on my back on the kitchen floor in my nightdress (no idea how or why I'd got there!) surrounded by several bemused and worried-looking cats. Overhead flew rather evil-looking monsters grinning maliciously at me. (hallucinations) I was sweating like a fountain. 'Flu-like'? Hmmm...
Fortunately, the regulations now state that one Yellow Fever jab is for life.
I wonder if there are any adverse reactions to the Covid vaccination?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 11:25 AM

Oh, don't be annoying me with your Q Fever! I have been looking forever for a short story about a space traveller who comes back to earth after long years and finds the place empty of humans; first thing he sees is a sign saying

WAR Q

on a cliff; he doesn't know that language changed in the centuries he was away, and this meant "Beware Q"; every human on earth has been killed by an epidemic of Q Fever.

Meanwhile the German vaccine advisory group has put out a notice that they don't, for the moment, advise the AstraZeneca vaccine for over-64s, as it's not sufficiently tested for them.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 02:14 PM

I have just watched this Royal Society discussion on the development of the vaccines. It lasts around an hour, but some of you may find it interesting. I hope it can be seen outside the UK, but I don't know, to be honest.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: DMcG
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 02:18 PM

I have just checked that link and the first six minutes or so were recorded before the talk started. You can skip that!

Subject: RE: 2021 vacation thread
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 02:45 PM

I will have my vacation injected this March.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 04:05 PM

They will inject in my arm!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 07:51 PM

@ robomatic: we have been told not to phone our GP’s surgeries to ask about getting vaccinated as it’s “don’t cal us, we’ll call you or send a letter”.
However there is a phone number on my husband’s letter to call if you have any problem with the appointment given, so I might just call that before the day to see if there is any possibility of just turning up and getting done as you suggest. May be different over here though :-(

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 08:03 PM

I was actually helped by a call to my school district office after a word from some friends who'd just been there and been seen to. A very friendly school official in a very short time gave me enough facts so that I went right to my vehicle and drove over, with the experience I mentioned above.

Not that I understand life on your side of the block, but I've learned that once policies get announced, they may rapidly undergo change, among them for us that vaccines get prepared in lots and batches, and once thawed out, they need to go into arms or be wasted. And people answer phones even when they're supposed to be talking to people right in front of them.

It's a matter of life and health. Good hunting!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Jan 21 - 08:05 PM

Oh, I always bring a Sudoku or puzzle with me so that I have something to occupy my mind with, plus, if folks see that you are busy, they are less likely to leave you idling!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 03:41 AM

I am posting this here as it is the closest in subject.
The Government advises us to social distance two meters for safety yet beds in hospitals are only one metre apart, completely illogical, and indicaes that hospitals are unsafe places to be near

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 04:25 AM

I can't say I've ever seen hospital beds spaced that closely.
According to The BBC the standard gap is 3.6m

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 05:13 AM

Irish hospitals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Jos
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 09:14 AM

The distance between the patients themselves will be larger than the gap between the beds, as there will be a bit of unoccupied bed-space either side of each patient, varying, of course, with how fat the patients are. This could add the best part of another metre.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 06:33 PM

Well, as Dr. Fauci said yesterday the 6 feet separation rule is a rule of thumb. The physics of it is simple: The further away you are, the less likely transmission is.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 06:38 PM

Unfortunately, I have had more experience with hospitals in recent times than I'd have liked. I have never seen beds anything like as close as a metre apart.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 03:30 AM

jos so the patients never get out of bed to have a pee? of course they do and that is the time when the bed space needs to be further apart. well steve, you have not been to ireland lately have you

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 04:01 AM

Efficacy?
vaccines in the arm or vaccines made?

There is a difference. I hear stories of 500 vaccines left out of the 'fridge being investigated supposedly deliberately - no room in the 'fridge when the next batch arrived would be my best guess.

And the volunteers students on their way to a vaccine centre in America caught in a snowstorm deciding to offer shots to other stranded motorists. Not all accepted.

Vaccines stored at lower temperatures have less chance of "spoiling".

Real life is messy! It's a jungle out there.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 04:50 AM

I've got mine tonight.

I think it would be nice - once we've sorted ourselves out to help some other nations - starting with the Irish. They are our closest neighbours, but we've not always enjoyed an easy relationship, and it would be a friendly gesture.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 08:18 AM

Where are these hospitals with the close-spaced beds? I can't see how it would be possible to nurse people with beds spaced close together - nurses and doctors need room to do their work, including proning patients. A metre between beds certainly wouldn't be enough.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 11:58 AM

Those 500 vaccines left out to spoil were actually intentionally sabotaged by a malignant and now fired and charged with a crime pharmacist.

Beds in an open hospital ward? That's so 1950s. The closest I've seen to that is the large recovery room for after surgery, where there are curtained off areas that each hold a bed; I imagine it lets the nursing staff tend easily to several people. Those spaces are probably 12 feet wide per space, and you never see the other people in the area. I say this being fully aware that it is my hospital experience because I have insurance, and in the US, if you don't have insurance, things are probably different at hospitals.

The Pfizer vaccine made my upper arm ache slightly, much as one would get after a flu or other type of shot. I was kind of tired for several days, possibly related to that. My daughter got the Moderna and she said that one packed more of a punch as far as the aching arm. I participated in the V-Safe CDC follow-up, and for a couple of days I didn't report the fatigue because I thought it was just me, but it lingered, so I reported it. The CDC sent a daily text for a week to see what I had to report, and if I'd reported something particularly unusual, the message said someone from the CDC might call to follow up.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 12:29 PM

jeeze louise I'm still in registration limbo.
I assumed Maryland would be quicker than Texas.
I also assume I developed one single shingles painful itchy spot from the shingles vaccine. I'm just glad it wasn't full blown.

I read a story about Utah having 32,000 doses of vaccine expire.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 01:45 PM

Which vaccine, Donuel?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 03:07 PM

Not being able to plan has made the vaccine distribution difficult. In my county in Texas they set up in a couple of convention centers and in large facilities owned by the county, but without the people to do the work of directing traffic, taking personal information, and generally monitoring all of the traffic through the space, that would be meaningless. And getting those worker-bee people in time to give the shots, it's such an interwoven process that all depends on advance notice.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 03:16 PM

Thompson in ireland as reported on rte radio one about week to ten dqys ago

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Rain Dog
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 03:23 PM

Hospitals have always been unsafe. A lot of people have died in them.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 03:32 PM

Thompson if people are catching covid in hospital in ireland 2 meters is not far enough apart . would you agree, or alternatively improve ventilation in hospital.
Finally what is the percentage of people who have died of covid but had weakened immune systems, but would have died of their terminal condition anyway
and what is the percentage of people who have covid who have recovered, and what are the stats for people who had weakened immuune systems but did not die
there is very little well informed data being presented to the public, by governments in the uk and in ireland
these are questions that do not appear to be answered
meanwhile certain sections [newspapers] are sensationalising and behaving irresponsibly.
it is important to take care,
but not necessary, to become a hermit, the situation is clearly unhingeing a minority and causing mental problems, i know of at least 4 people who are refusing to go out of their house

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 30 Jan 21 - 06:31 PM

Ah, I see, didn't see the report; but the hospitals here are very crowded.
What's the proportion of people who would have died anyway? Tiny, comparatively. The virus is reaping human lives.
The worst figures are for illness and hospitalisation, but the intensive care units are packed. There are graphs on the Wikipedia page about Covid-19 in Ireland that give an idea. Everyone knows people who've died; everyone knows people who've been very ill. Vaccination is happening, but it's at the early stage where medics and people in care home are being vaccinated; all of those I know who've been vaccinated fall into one of those groups (as is right, of course). Plans for faster vaccination of others are being made difficult by companies overpromising what they could provide, then saying, oh, sorry, ooops.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 05:18 AM

Thompson, I do not know anyone in ireland who has died, obviously people have died, but were they people with weakened immune systems, you have not answered my question about the stats and the reporting.
I am keeping an open mind, I am not saying it is a conspiracy, but i am critical of newspaper reporting, and i have to say that the conspiracy theorists have one thing right, people are being controlled.
   I am also critical of governments handling of this, too much emphasis on masks and not enough on ventilation and space inside buildings., including hospitals and schools
not enough emphasis on how to build up immune system to fight the virus.
what has been sown is being reaped, lack of investment in suitable hospital equipment and suitable hospitals equipped to deal with viruS, years of underfunding in the HSE
cock ups over supply of vaccine plus reports that one of the vaccines is not effective or has limited effect for over 65s
if one of the vaccines is not effective what is the point of taking it?
you say quote"What's the proportion of people who would have died anyway? Tiny, comparatively."
well provide some stats to back that up.
I want the truth, i do not want misinformation from either side.. the government or the conspiracy theorists

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 05:40 AM

Fresh air ventilation is very important. I work in a single story building. No clients are allowed inside, main door is always open and windows in my room. So we dress very warmly indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM

The Sandman: Of course, as in any outbreak of illness, it's the weakest who die most. That's not to say that they would have died anyway.
I'm not following the statistics with any great dedication; if you're interested, feel free… but if you look at this page and go to "Epidemiology of COVID-19 in Ireland" you'll have an enjoyable browse.
If you want to build up your immune system, of course that's a good idea - don't drive but instead ride a bicycle (slashes instance of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, obesity), eat plenty of fibre and greens, be happy…
But while it's obviously going to help your chances, it didn't necessarily save people in other epidemics like the Spanish Flu, Aids, etc.
Vaccines, however, do have an excellent record - the one closest to home for me is the vaccination drive run by women, both suffragettes and nationalists, from the 1920s on, against the furious opposition of a particularly conservative Church and State, which succeeded in ending an endemic of tuberculosis that made Ireland the sickest country in Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 09:14 AM

Of course, more familiar to others would be the polio vaccines that spread across the world after the polio pandemic of the 1950s - Salk's and Sabin's vaccines saved millions of people from a hideous disease.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM

Vaccine Tourism to Florida.

Until this opens up to allow more people in their own localities to get vaccines, there will be those who hunt for and go to other community's vaccine programs.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:45 PM

Further snow and ice forecast for the day my husband has to go for his vaccination: an 8-mile journey - if he can get out of our own road. The neighbours all mucked in to dig it out a couple of weeks back!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Thompson
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 05:36 AM

Roald Dahl's little girl got measles in 1962, shortly before the vaccine was developed. He wrote about it:
(the link also leads to Dahl's children's charity)
==
Olivia, my eldest daughter, caught measles when she was seven years old. As the illness took its usual course I can remember reading to her often in bed and not feeling particularly alarmed about it. Then one morning, when she was well on the road to recovery, I was sitting on her bed showing her how to fashion little animals out of coloured pipe-cleaners, and when it came to her turn to make one herself, I noticed that her fingers and her mind were not working together and she couldn't do anything.

"Are you feeling all right?" I asked her.

"I feel all sleepy," she said.

In an hour, she was unconscious. In twelve hours she was dead.

The measles had turned into a terrible thing called measles encephalitis and there was nothing the doctors could do to save her. That was twenty-four years ago in 1962, but even now, if a child with measles happens to develop the same deadly reaction from measles as Olivia did, there would still be nothing the doctors could do to help her.

On the other hand, there is today something that parents can do to make sure that this sort of tragedy does not happen to a child of theirs. They can insist that their child is immunised against measles. I was unable to do that for Olivia in 1962 because in those days a reliable measles vaccine had not been discovered. Today a good and safe vaccine is available to every family and all you have to do is to ask your doctor to administer it.

It is not yet generally accepted that measles can be a dangerous illness. Believe me, it is. In my opinion parents who now refuse to have their children immunised are putting the lives of those children at risk. In America, where measles immunisation is compulsory, measles like smallpox, has been virtually wiped out.

Here in Britain, because so many parents refuse, either out of obstinacy or ignorance or fear, to allow their children to be immunised, we still have a hundred thousand cases of measles every year. Out of those, more than 10,000 will suffer side effects of one kind or another. At least 10,000 will develop ear or chest infections. About 20 will die.

LET THAT SINK IN.

Every year around 20 children will die in Britain from measles.

So what about the risks that your children will run from being immunised?

They are almost non-existent. Listen to this. In a district of around 300,000 people, there will be only one child every 250 years who will develop serious side effects from measles immunisation! That is about a million to one chance. I should think there would be more chance of your child choking to death on a chocolate bar than of becoming seriously ill from a measles immunisation.

So what on earth are you worrying about? It really is almost a crime to allow your child to go unimmunised.

The ideal time to have it done is at 13 months, but it is never too late. All school-children who have not yet had a measles immunisation should beg their parents to arrange for them to have one as soon as possible.

Incidentally, I dedicated two of my books to Olivia, the first was 'James and the Giant Peach'. That was when she was still alive. The second was 'The BFG', dedicated to her memory after she had died from measles. You will see her name at the beginning of each of these books. And I know how happy she would be if only she could know that her death had helped to save a good deal of illness and death among other children.

==

Dahl's letter remains eerily appropriate today, in light of the ongoing and expanding measles outbreak centered in California. More than 100 cases have now been confirmed in 14 states across the U.S., including Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Minnesota, Michigan, Nebraska, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Texas, Utah and Washington state. According to the latest figures from the California Department of Public Health, at least 91 of the cases are in California, 58 of which have been linked to the outbreak that began in Disneyland last month. The degree and scale of this outbreak (in the past thirty days, California has seen more confirmed measles cases than it typically sees in a year) has been pinned to the obstinacy, ignorance, and fear of those who would refuse their children, and anyone else unable to vaccinate for legitimate medical reasons, the protection immunization affords.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mr Red
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:01 AM

What's the proportion of people who would have died anyway? - can be deduced from "excess deaths" - for the UK worst since WW2 see BBC story

In Ireland that would appear to be 2 to 3000

The people who would have died anyway would have died over a longer period, because we keep them alive longer these days. So the excess deaths reflect the surge.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 11:05 AM

Excellent post, Thompson, and Dahl would absolutely be the first to make this case if he were still around.

I was listening to a discussion on NPR (National Public Radio) this weekend and the conclusion of the guest being interviewed (I can't remember which program to post a link) is that the best way to reverse the views of those who are vaccine averse is to have a one-on-one conversation with them. Especially if that person talking to them has experience with the disease or the vaccine.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 vaccination thread
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:01 PM

I have been helping route traffic at a vax site, and they offered us jabs, but I said I'd wait till it was my actual turn. No comorbidity, under 60, I can wait.

Meanwhile our big hospital has apparently been jabbing *all* their staff, even the computer coders working from home, and not jabbing the public, even old people or those with risk factors. Shame, I say.