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Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]

Mrrzy 14 Jan 21 - 09:54 AM
Steve Gardham 14 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,guest The Sandman 14 Jan 21 - 10:34 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 14 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM
meself 14 Jan 21 - 11:24 AM
Jos 14 Jan 21 - 11:30 AM
DaveRo 14 Jan 21 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,patriot 14 Jan 21 - 12:12 PM
GUEST,The Sandman 14 Jan 21 - 12:43 PM
Jeri 14 Jan 21 - 01:06 PM
GUEST,guest The Sandman 14 Jan 21 - 01:26 PM
Steve Gardham 14 Jan 21 - 01:44 PM
GUEST 14 Jan 21 - 01:58 PM
Steve Gardham 14 Jan 21 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,guest The Sandman 14 Jan 21 - 02:23 PM
GUEST,James Phillips 14 Jan 21 - 03:06 PM
Steve Gardham 14 Jan 21 - 03:18 PM
meself 14 Jan 21 - 03:34 PM
Mrrzy 14 Jan 21 - 03:42 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 14 Jan 21 - 04:17 PM
Steve Gardham 14 Jan 21 - 04:39 PM
Steve Gardham 14 Jan 21 - 04:52 PM
Jeri 14 Jan 21 - 05:05 PM
Jeri 14 Jan 21 - 05:58 PM
Jeri 14 Jan 21 - 06:05 PM
GerryM 15 Jan 21 - 01:53 AM
GUEST,guest The Sandman 15 Jan 21 - 02:23 AM
Sandra in Sydney 15 Jan 21 - 02:28 AM
r.padgett 15 Jan 21 - 02:30 AM
GUEST,guest The Sandman 15 Jan 21 - 03:37 AM
Sandra in Sydney 15 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM
DaveRo 15 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 15 Jan 21 - 04:59 AM
GUEST,Peter Laban 15 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM
Steve Gardham 15 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM
Jeri 15 Jan 21 - 09:17 AM
GUEST,guest The Sandman 15 Jan 21 - 09:20 AM
Thompson 15 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM
Thompson 15 Jan 21 - 11:51 AM
Bill D 15 Jan 21 - 12:34 PM
meself 15 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Jan 21 - 02:03 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM
Jeri 15 Jan 21 - 03:43 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Jan 21 - 04:13 PM
Bill D 15 Jan 21 - 04:27 PM
EBarnacle 15 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM
Jeri 15 Jan 21 - 05:47 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Jan 21 - 06:04 PM
GUEST,The Sandman 16 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM
Gibb Sahib 16 Jan 21 - 07:51 AM
Gibb Sahib 16 Jan 21 - 08:09 AM
Felipa 16 Jan 21 - 08:54 AM
Steve Gardham 16 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM
Mrrzy 16 Jan 21 - 10:04 AM
Felipa 16 Jan 21 - 10:44 AM
GUEST,Observer 16 Jan 21 - 10:51 AM
RTim 16 Jan 21 - 11:59 AM
Gibb Sahib 16 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM
Mrrzy 16 Jan 21 - 12:38 PM
Bill D 16 Jan 21 - 12:48 PM
Joe Offer 16 Jan 21 - 02:07 PM
Bill D 16 Jan 21 - 03:22 PM
Steve Gardham 16 Jan 21 - 03:44 PM
Felipa 16 Jan 21 - 04:08 PM
Steve Gardham 16 Jan 21 - 04:18 PM
Bill D 16 Jan 21 - 05:00 PM
RTim 16 Jan 21 - 05:52 PM
Felipa 16 Jan 21 - 06:19 PM
meself 16 Jan 21 - 06:22 PM
Mrrzy 16 Jan 21 - 07:20 PM
Gibb Sahib 16 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM
Joe Offer 16 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM
Catamariner 16 Jan 21 - 09:52 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 17 Jan 21 - 05:11 AM
JHW 17 Jan 21 - 05:41 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 17 Jan 21 - 05:45 AM
GUEST,henryp 17 Jan 21 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,henryp 17 Jan 21 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,The Sandman 17 Jan 21 - 10:15 AM
Steve Gardham 17 Jan 21 - 02:10 PM
vectis 17 Jan 21 - 03:30 PM
Felipa 17 Jan 21 - 04:46 PM
Jeri 17 Jan 21 - 05:29 PM
Bill D 17 Jan 21 - 05:47 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 17 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM
Steve Gardham 18 Jan 21 - 10:12 AM
Steve Gardham 18 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 18 Jan 21 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 18 Jan 21 - 01:19 PM
Steve Gardham 18 Jan 21 - 03:08 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 18 Jan 21 - 04:23 PM
GUEST,Joe G 18 Jan 21 - 04:50 PM
GUEST,Calico Jenny 19 Jan 21 - 08:07 AM
Steve Gardham 19 Jan 21 - 11:12 AM
RTim 19 Jan 21 - 02:17 PM
Steve Gardham 19 Jan 21 - 02:36 PM
Gibb Sahib 19 Jan 21 - 11:32 PM
GUEST,henryp 20 Jan 21 - 05:05 AM
Brian Peters 20 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM
Steve Gardham 20 Jan 21 - 05:55 PM
Gibb Sahib 21 Jan 21 - 01:35 AM
Brian Peters 21 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM
Felipa 22 Jan 21 - 05:28 PM
GUEST,Rowan 25 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM
Felipa 25 Jan 21 - 04:38 PM
Steve Gardham 26 Jan 21 - 07:33 AM
GUEST,henryp 19 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM
GUEST,Tony Mannion 21 Mar 21 - 08:15 PM
rich-joy 29 Mar 21 - 05:48 AM
The Sandman 29 Mar 21 - 07:34 AM
Joe Offer 29 Mar 21 - 11:54 AM
GerryM 30 Mar 21 - 06:00 PM
Sandra in Sydney 31 Mar 21 - 01:58 AM
GerryM 06 Apr 21 - 09:14 AM
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Subject: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:54 AM

What is going on with sea chanteys? This is the third headline I've seen today about them!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/13/sea-shanties-tiktok-nathan-evanss-wellerman/

Blicky.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM

Wellerman never was a chanty. It's even debatable if it came from oral tradition or was ever sung at sea. M, the prefix 'sea' is unnecessary and undesirable. They are just chanties, spell it how you will. The most likely scenario is it was written by Neil Colquhoun c1970, made of bits of other well-known folksongs.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 10:34 AM

ah well its good publicity for the music


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM

Yesterday's Guardian:

Not just for drunken sailors: how sea shanties took over TikTok


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: meself
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:24 AM

Something about some "game" and Sponge Bob and Pirates of the Caribbean ... but, yeah, it's about time!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jos
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:30 AM

There was an interview with a singer - a Scottish postman - on Radio 4 this morning, in which he said it was a song from New Zealand about whaling.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: DaveRo
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:01 PM

This was on Radio 3 yesterday:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p093zbkq

Skip the first 45". There's an interview, and then he sings The Wellerman at 04:30.

He says that the first one he posted was Leave Her Johnny.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:12 PM

The phoney Wellerman song sounds a pretty ghastly reminder of whaling- probably best forgotten, like a lot of folk songs and shanties


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:43 PM

Why Best forgotten? does that mean other unpleasant historical events should be forgotten, should we look through the past with rose tinted spectacles?
should we not sing about the first world war because alot of people were killed unnecsssarily.
Should we sing only about the stone round dan murphys door


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:06 PM

Trolling, Dick.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:26 PM

No, making valid points
if i sing matty groves it does not mean i approve of lord darnalds behaviour if i sing the coasts of peru.. it does not mean i am in favour of whaling.
I reckon that on a folk music forum somebody who suggests that a lot of folk songs and shanties should be forgotten is in fact a troll


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:44 PM

The song first appeared in a 1972 book of NZ songs. The Wellers were actually from an Australian whaling company. Half the songs are from journals and newspapers and the other half look as though they have been cobbled together during the revival using bits and pieces and tunes of well-known songs. Some good songs in there though all the same. Where 'Davy Lowston' first appeared.

Yes, Dick, YOU have been trolled which is what Jeri was saying.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:58 PM

the guardian quote.. sea shanties 600 years old? i understood most of them dated from the 1850 to 1910?
Jeri, do you know anything about shanties?can you tell us anything about USA shanties, i understood that“Essequibo River” was an american shanty is that right, Jeri? is that so, if so it cannot be 600 years old


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:08 PM

1830 to 1860 was the main era but some were still in use in the 1920s. Phil will be along shortly to tell us about the 600-year-old ones from Africa and Arabia, but what we know of as the chanty in the western world doesn't predate 1830 though there were prototype rowing songs in the Gulf.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:23 PM

Jeri, can you make your points clearer if you use the phrase trolling, Dick to me it is not clear who you are referring to?


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,James Phillips
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:06 PM

That's weird, I frequent a few music/music production subreddits and a few times in the past few weeks I've seen questions from people asking about sea shanties, like "What instruments do I need to write for a sea shanty" etc. Weird. I recently heard Morris On's "I'll Go and List as a Sailor," after finding it randomly on YouTube, and have been singing it obsessively ever since. Perhaps the sea shanty's day is coming back!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:18 PM

I give up!!!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: meself
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:34 PM

James Phillips: it sounds like you are conflating shanties/chanteys/chanties and sea-songs generally, which is common among the uninitiated. A shanty/etc. is specifically a work-song; there are many other songs associated with the sea, all of which, along with shanties, can be called sea-songs' - or whatever name you'd like to give them.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:42 PM

(I put sea chanteys in the title because that us what all the headlines said.)

So is all this hoopla really about one singer one chantey and tiktok?


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:17 PM

;) A halyard doesn't own a calendar or passport and can't tell a fiddle instrumental from a Greek a capella.

Steve: Phil will be along shortly to tell us about the 600-year-old ones from Africa and Arabia...

You explain the history of “coonjining” with baseless, Afro-centric speculation about the mid-19th century Gulf of Mexico. Never give up! Never surrender!

I explain it as the prehistoric Western chorus helciariorum descended to the Yanks via the contiguous, documented history of the European hobbelier et al. Biblioholic to my last breath.


Meself: Something about some "game" and Sponge Bob and Pirates of the Caribbean ... but, yeah, it's about time! & 600 year old shanties &c &c &c.

Piratical Debauchery, Homesick Sailors and Nautical Rhythms, Reidler, 2017

The Pirates theme music is, supposedly, some sort of meme lifted from Dido & Aeneas: Act III, known as Come Away or the Sailors' Chorus.

Dido and freaking Aeneas!!! And Reidler and the music faculty at Wellesley can't, and I do not mean won't y'all, use “celeusma” in a sentence!?


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:39 PM

Anybody follow any of that? :-)


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:52 PM

I Glesca they'll celeusma coals fer a few pence.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:05 PM

For those without the translator program, Dick thought I was sayng HE was trolling (it's a verb, not a phrase), not being trolled.

I didn't see the Guardian article, only the WaPo one, although I caught it last night on Facebook. Those guys sang well.

"So is all this hoopla really about one singer one chantey and tiktok?"
Yep


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:58 PM

Some nice mod fixed my post so I sounded slightly less stupid. Thanks, me.


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Subject: and it's not a chantey, or shanty, even.
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:05 PM

The song, and some info, are at the New Zealand Folk Song site: Soon May the Wellerman Come

It's also in the DT


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GerryM
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:53 AM

I sang Soon May the Wellerman Come at the Mudcat singaround a couple of weeks ago. That must be what kicked off the current craze.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:23 AM

Jeri congratulations on fixing your post, as a moderator might i give you the honour of a silver star, go to the top of the class


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:28 AM

well done, Gerry.

look what the State Library of New South Wales (the state where Gerry & I live) tweeted today, looks like an answer to the question on subreddit "What instruments do I need to write for a sea shanty"

For all you #SeaShanty singers out there, here are a couple of tunes

direct links to the 2 books in the tweet
Sea shanties [music] / arranged with pianoforte accompaniment by William G. James
Sea shanty [music] : piano solo / John Giles


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:30 AM

Have you all lost your membership or are you just mudcat part times? some times you lose membership due to pc changes

Ray


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:37 AM

Ray, I have chosen to log out. My choice
when i see you hopefully at Saltburn.I will explain


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM

What are sea shanties and why are they going viral online?


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: DaveRo
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM

Today's Guardian:
The true story behind the viral TikTok sea shanty hit


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:59 AM

And another one from the Guardian today:

The true story behind the viral TikTok sea shanty hit


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM

Sorry for the cross-posting there


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM

Ignorance is bliss!!!! Where is Gibb when you need him?


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:17 AM

The "at least 600 years old" thing IS stupid*, but whattchagonnado? Has anyone written out the music for harp and lute yet?

* in fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus's syphilitic crew
Sang a shanty, one or two
As anyone on ship will do
Roll it up in little balls and heave away.
(I'm done)


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:20 AM

Jeri , that is fantastic


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Subject: Tech: Sea shanties on TikTok
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM

Apparently the social media site TikTok is thronged with people singing sea shanties at the moment. Here's a rather nice one, The Wellerman, with extra added mechanical baritone for depth.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:51 AM

The Guardian has a piece about the TikTok shanty phenomenon.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:34 PM

Steve Gardham knows whereof he speaks...
( I subscribe to Ballad-) If YOU want to sing something, be my guest. It IS nice if you have some idea of the history of things, but *shrug*...


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: meself
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM

Well ... I imagine not all of the early shantymen knew much of the history of things, so ... *shrug* ....


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:03 PM

It wasn't encumbent on seamen to know anything other than about how to operate a ship, but they WERE the 'history'. They were living it!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

'Twas in January, the year of '42 and we had just left the Gulf and had set our course for Liverpool when we encountered one o' them there sudden squalls. The mate yells out above the screeching wind, "All hands aloft and get them sails reefed. Last man on the rigging gets my rope end!'

Suddenly up steps Harry the Historian. "Hang on, chaps, before you go up there I need to tell you how those chanties came about you're a-going to sing out!"

Splash!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:43 PM

Because I've had to infrquently deal with musical control freaks: if we required historical authenticity, nobody would be singing a se shanty unless they were on a ship, doing the job. Sea songs such as The Wellerman are a different story.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:13 PM

Absolutely, Jeri
Groups get a helluvalot o' fun out o' singing 'em, and audiences seem to enjoy listening, but choosing your audience carefully it doesn't hurt to give out a bit of info now and again.

To all the folks on the Interweb it doesn't matter diddly squat whether Wellerman is a chanty or not as long as they're enjoying it, and it's certainly giving us a lot of publicity even if it is drastically misinformed. Mick, one of our lead singers, was blowing away on local radio and getting us a lot of publicity this very morning because of it.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:27 PM

I'm a great fan of knowing history and 'original' lyrics... when such things are possible to ascertain. There are songs... including shanties/chanties... that we can come pretty close to the originals. Some things by Burns have entered the realm of folk/trad, but some things just appeared in various eras and probably had several versions before collectors ever encountered them... including F.J. Child, Stan Hugill and Joanna Colcord etc.

   It IS possible to distinguish between items and versions which are really folk/trad (i.e. were popularized before recordings made them well-known) and songs and versions which owe their fame to 78s, LPs and CDs since 1927 or so. I do appreciate it when that difference is noted, but it's useless to waste much time making it an issue unless someone actually asks and cares. The recent noise about "The Wellerman" is one opportunity to make a few inroads.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM

Back in the 70's I had chance to chat with Irving Johnson of Yankee fame, as well as the filmer of "Peking Battles Cape Horn." He had sailed where the chanteys would have been sung in the last age of commercial sail. He said that neither in the brigantine Yankee nor aboard Peking did anyone work to chanteys. On Peking there were too few sailors to spare a useful hand or breath for chanteys and on Yankee the sails were too small.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:47 PM

Article with a bunch of TicTok videos. You may never want to hear The Wellerman again, ever, but who knows.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:04 PM

Hi EB
Coincidentally I've just been reading through Stan's Bosun's Locker articles and he says what I've always thought, Chanties were very scarce in the North Sea and in the coasters, partly because crews were so small and partly because they were mostly fore and aft rig and didn't need the heaving and hauling. When are we talking about with Peking? Certainly the tall ships into the 20s were still chantying according to Alan Villiers.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM

I think this sort of exposure is really good for the music, neither has the original singer sung the song in a way that is very commercialised, for the song to get to many people and be sung as he did is good


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 07:51 AM

FAKE NEWS


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:09 AM

I haven't heard ANY chanties on TikTok ;)

But I did write this, sure to irk some people:

https://www.academia.edu/44914351/A_Statement_During_the_January_2021_ShantyTok_


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:54 AM

There was an item on BBC Radio (I forget was I listening to radio 4 or radio Ulster, but I think the latter) about the growing popularity of shanties, including newly composed shanties. People like singing along on the choruses. I don't think TikTok was mentioned. The item included some pleasant singing.

I know some sailing enthusiasts sing shanties, but on the whole they are one of a number of types of working songs which have become entertainment/art songs divorced from the work which has changed so much since the songs were employed.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 09:52 AM

Hi Gibb and welcome.
Awesome account. I just have one very minor quibble.
You appear to be saying that the river songs, stevedore songs and rowing songs should be called chanties. That they evolved into chanties is indisputable and some may even be visually the same song in one genre and the other. However I have always thought the actual word 'chanty' was only ever used to apply to the marine type and that quite a while later. Have you any evidence that actual word was used for any of them other than those used at sea? I know I'm nit-picking but I feel it's important to make this clear in your wonderful paper.

Also I tried unsuccessfully to print it off. I wonder if you would be so kind as to send me a copy I can print off please? If you've lost my email address I'll pm you.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:04 AM

GerryM aha that answers my niggling feeling of familiarity given lack of tiktok!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:44 AM

there's another article in The Guardian now
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/16/how-a-scottish-posties-simple-sea-shanty-struck-a-global-chord

Nathan's singing is nice!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:51 AM

Wonder how many people expressing their opinions on Chanties/Shanty's or whatever you may want to call them have ever actually worked at sea on the deck of a ship, handled sail, or manned pumps or capstans. My guess would be very few of them.

I have actually done all of those things at various times in my life and not once was anything done to song, so I would tend to agree with
- EBarnacle Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM. Too much going on and far too many things to concentrate on, for any singing.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: RTim
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 11:59 AM

I too had a problem printing Gibb's paper...could read it, but not print....

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM

Tim and Steve - Thanks for checking it out! Download the PDF, should solve your issue. I'm guessing you just read the webpage preview.

Steve - It's not a paper. See the note at the beginning ;) Was a one-off summary response to a journalist's questions.

Not saying those things were called chanties. Chanties weren't even called chanties most of the time! (most is called song or chant)--yet we read about unnamed songs and call them "chanties" because that's our name for that thing, expedience. Saying they are same form of song. A rose by any other name.

Didn't go into details on nomenclature, but I do that in the published 'The Execrable Term' article linked. Have another brief paper on non-sea songs at that Academia.edu site. Unpublished stuff. Haven't had time to put any of that in publishable form for last 3 years as I've been all about Punjabi music!!! :-)


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:38 PM

I have to say I do like the versiin ofthe song that all the hoopla is about. I just don't grok the hoopla.
But hey. Pandemic. I grok a total lack of needing to grok what keeps others sane.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:48 PM

I was able to print it after downloading the PDF... which seems to require at a minimum the free membership in Academia.edu.

Google gave me security warnings because downloading required allowing Academia to access my google account. I saw no danger, so said 'yes'.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 02:07 PM

"Wellerman" seems to be the megahit of this craze. It IS fun to sing, and it's nice to see people making multi-voice recordings. No doubt, we'll be getting scads of threads requesting the lyrics, and scads of other threads telling us we're singing it wrong.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 03:22 PM

...and on Facebook, John Roberts posted a scan of the original songbook version. I copied it, but Mudcat requires a remote link. I might put it on Dropbox or Google Drive...


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 03:44 PM

I thought it looked familiar on the site. It didn't say ACADEMIA anywhere and I hadn't spotted the PDF option. Silly me! Got it now and the other chanty related items. Many thanks, Gibb. Tonight's reading sorted.

Here's the Bailey Bros & Swinfen text from 1973.

There was a ship that put to sea.
The name of the ship was the Billy of Tea.
The winds blew up, her bow dipped down
O blow my bully boys blow

Chorus: Soon may the Wellerman come,
And bring us sugar and tea and rum,
One day when th' tonguin' is done
We'll take our leave and go.

She had not been two weeks from shore
When down on her a (w)right whale bore.
The captain called all hands and swore
He'd take that whale in tow.

Before the boat had hit the water,
The whale's tail came up and caught her.
All hands to the side, harpooned and fought her
When she dived down below.

No line was cut, no whale was freed.
The captain's mind was not of greed,
But he belonged to the whalemen's creed
She took the ship in tow.

Forty days or even more
The line went slack. Then tight once more.
All boats were lost (there were only four)
But still the whale did go.

As far as I've heard the fight's still on.
The line's not cut and the whale's not gone.
The Wellerman makes his regular call
To encourage the captain crew and all.

Just an opinion but I'd say this is more 1970 than 1830. I write similar pieces myself having done the research. That would also fit in with much of the other material in the book. The first 2 lines are adapted from Golden Vanity and the 4th line is the well-known chanty chorus which might well be why some people are calling it a chanty. It's certainly in the vein of the Wonderful Crocodile and similar pieces of the 1830s, but you could say that about some of my songs.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 04:08 PM

Mrrzy - Do people other than you still say "grok", and if so, where?
shades of Heinlein Stranger in a a Strange Land


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 04:18 PM

Wow! Mega respect to Gibb.

9 'papers' to download at Academia and all chock full of the most detailed background to the history of chantying. Well worth a look for anyone vaguely interested and with plenty of time for some serious reading. You'll be glad to know I won't be appearing here for a few days, I'll be too busy soaking it up.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:00 PM

re: grok
I do see it now & then. But is seldom used with the depth of meaning Heinlein attributed it in "Stranger..."
from Wiki:...."Grok means "to understand," of course, but Dr. Mahmoud, who might be termed the leading Terran expert on Martians, explains that it also means, "to drink" and "a hundred other English words, words which we think of as antithetical concepts. 'Grok' means all of these. It means 'fear,' it means 'love,' it means 'hate'—proper hate, for by the Martian 'map' you cannot hate anything unless you grok it, understand it so thoroughly that you merge with it and it merges with you—then you can hate it. By hating yourself. But this implies that you love it, too, and cherish it and would not have it otherwise. Then you can hate—and (I think) Martian hate is an emotion so black that the nearest human equivalent could only be called mild distaste."


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: RTim
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:52 PM

To interject and move away from all Chanty/Shanty stuff....

GROK - is a very nice Croatian white wine from Lumbarda on Korcula - crisp and great with seafood.......that is as close as it gets to Chanties.....

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:19 PM

not just one chantey - I looked at one of the articles about the revival of shanties which showed a clip from TikTok of Nathan singing What will we do with the drunken sailor.

Gordon Bok recording of Wellerman


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: meself
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:22 PM

I wonder if Gibb's journalist got a little more than he bargained for? Great stuff, nonetheless!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 07:20 PM

I do see grok here and there.

I really like the one song the hoopla started over.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM

Steve,

Apologizes if I sounded a little flip earlier responding to your valid point. Insomnia!

It's definitely something worth clarifying, or rather, being clear about when possible.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM

NPR Weekend Edition (click) had a nice story this morning about the TikTok sea chantey phenomenon. It's a 4-minute listen.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Catamariner
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 09:52 PM

There are older western chanteys too, as there has been rhythmic work to do aboard ships for a considerable time. I think "Haul on the Bowline" was considered one of the oldest in English. As for "sea songs," those one might actually sing in an off hour for entertainment would be called forebitters.

There is a subset of shanties from the iron-ship era and another set that have African influences from the American age of sail. But what charmed me in December (well, what with various covid-19 restrictions, I needed entertainment) was discovering, in the Rihla of Ibn Battuta, the following description of a rather ceremonial and clearly not very Islamic drinking bout at the court of Ozbeg Khan (a Turkish sultan): "During all this [ceremony], they sing [songs resembling the] chants sung by oarsmen." [HAR Gibb, the Travels of Ibn Battuta 1325 - 1354, Vol 2, p 480] So, drinking and bursting into sea chanteys has a long and glorious history... well, long, anyway :-)


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 05:11 AM

Well Ok! After 30 years of working for the BBC I was aware that there was a gaping chasm between what small amount of brains they have and their 'on air' mouth. I was also aware that the gap was called complete stupidity, but Paddy O'Connell (Radio 4) has just excelled the BBC's miserable record for mindless piffle.
Reporting upon the subject of this thread, he decided to demonstrate a Sea Chanty. What did he choose? Did he go for former BBC employees Bert Lloyd, or Ewan McColl. NO! of course not. Did he grab a recording of The Fisherman's Friends? NO! don't be silly! Did he play the interview with our singer from Scotland? NO! what ever for!
What did the BBC s##t weasel play? Rambling Sid Rumpo, just so he could ridicule the whole story. In this context it was about as funny as an STD on your wedding night. Well done Beeb! Another triumph of of unbiased journalism. Don't worry I promise I'll take two of my red pills and lie down in a darkened room.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: JHW
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 05:41 AM

Of course it was Rambling Sid. A real cnanty wouldn't have been funny.
Broadcasting House is a light news Sunday breakfast lazy listen.
I remember Subscriber Trunk Dialling but thankfully not my wedding night.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 05:45 AM

Yes, light news! They went on to discuss Covid vaccination, a perfect subject for lazy listening.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 08:21 AM

Narrating a voyage in a clipper ship from Bombay to New York City in the early 1860s, Clark wrote, "The anchor came to the bow with the chanty of 'Oh, Riley, Oh,' and 'Carry me Long.'" G. E. Clark's Seven Years of a Sailor's Life, 1867. (Wikipedia)

In 1951 William Doerflinger recognised that the worlds of both seamen and loggers shared the word shanty. Shantymen and Shantyboys; William M. Doerflinger (New York, 1951).

As I understand, sea shanties were originally unaccompanied work songs, led by a shanty-man. Whereas the songs loggers sang in their shanties were generally descriptive of the shantyboy's day-to-day routine. The two repertoires have usually been distinguished.

Songs and Ballads of the Maine Lumberjacks; Roland P. Gray (Cambridge, Mass., 1924)

Ballads and Songs of the Shanty-Boy; Franz Rickaby (ibid., 1926)

Songs of the Michigan Lumberjacks Recorded by Alan Lomax and Harry B. Welliver Library of Congress Washington 1980
When Alan Lomax made a two-and-a-half-month survey of Michigan folk-song for the Library of Congress in 1938, one of his primary objects was the location of the remaining survivors of the lumberwoods singing tradition.

Lumbering Songs from the Ontario Shanties; Various Artists
Canadian folk song authority Edith Fowke recorded men who decades earlier had ventured into the North Woods of Ontario to cut timber. Known as lumbermen, shanty boys, or lumberjacks, the men endured both cold and substantial danger.

Sea Shanties and Loggers' Songs; Sam Eskin
This fascinating collection of work songs is the product of Eskin's wandering and includes extensive notes about life in logging camps.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 08:50 AM

The Observer today; How a Scottish postie's simple sea shanty struck a global chord
Nathan Evans's viral TikTok covers have sparked a huge surge in interest in the formerly neglected genre, making him an overnight sensation.
Observer


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 10:15 AM

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:51 AM

Wonder how many people expressing their opinions on Chanties/Shanty's or whatever you may want to call them have ever actually worked at sea on the deck of a ship, handled sail, or manned pumps or capstans. My guess would be very few of them.

I have actually done all of those things at various times in my life and not once was anything done to song, so I would tend to agree with
- EBarnacle Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM. Too much going on and far too many things to concentrate on, for any singing. quote#
   Yes, Chris Rpche.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 02:10 PM

Henry,
Another good reason for spelling chanty the old way. The 2 genres of course entirely separate but you will find both in Doerflinger. I can't think of any that crossed the boundary but there may well be a couple in there. Some loggers were also seamen at different seasons.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: vectis
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 03:30 PM

Origins of the "Wellerman" song
Neil Colquhoun (Auckland, NZ) collected "Soon May the Wellerman Come" in about 1966 from someone called F. R. Woods.
Mr. Woods, who was then in his 80s, told Colquhoun he had learnt this song and also the song "John Smith A.B.," from his uncle.

"John Smith AB" was printed in The Bulletin Sydney in 1904, where it was attributed to D. H. Rogers (and contributed by F. R. Woods?)

It is possible that D. H. Rogers was the uncle of F. R. Woods' and that it was he who composed "Soon may the Wellerman Come" and "John Smith A.B."

If Rogers had been born around about 1820, then he could have been a teenaged sailor and/or shore whaler around NZ in the late 1830s, settled in Australia, written the shanties in his later years as his composing skills developed, and then taught them to his nephew in his 70s-early 80s, some time between 1890 and 1904.

Jim Delahunty (Wellington, NZ) et al. (The Song Spinners) recorded Wellerman in 1967 and Neil Colquhoun published it in the 2nd edition of Song of a Young Country, (Reed NZ, 1972).

Another edition of this book was published in England (Bailey Brothers and Swinfen 1972). This was purchased in Scotland by American chantyman Chris Morgan, who added Wellerman to his repetoire. He lent the book to Maine folksinger Gordon Bok who also sung and recorded it.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 04:46 PM

The Independent newspaper (UK) is another one that is covering the story
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/sea-shanties-lyrics-tiktok-song-meme-b1787155.html

I wonder about the assertion that "fallen out of popular culture for hundreds of years". There was a folk boom in the 1960s and chanteys were among the songs being sung. And then just a few years ago a film about the group Fishermen Friends was in the cinemas.

Was this article shared previously? I have seen some of the videos included it.

Anyway, there is a new article saying basically what we know well, that singing together lifts people's spirits. I read it on MSN and can't find it on The Independent website yet.
I'M AN OFFICER IN THE MERCHANT NAVY – IT’S NO SURPRISE PEOPLE ARE TURNING TO SEA SHANTIES DURING THE PANDEMIC
Thomas Murray 17 Jan 2021
You feel the walls are closing in around your workspace, yet, time ticks on, creating a sense of vastness. You do not know when this sense of confinement will cease. Your thoughts are your cargo. Where is your destination?

Lockdown is very much like an ocean voyage. Your home, a behemoth of a ship on the ocean waves of Covid-19. The destination? Your old life, free of these virus-induced shackles. Reunited with friends and family.

Confined to your quarters, working tirelessly at your computer, you lose your identity as you become a cog in a machine. Ocean, or Covid-19, is all around you – stopping you from being able to feel or to express. Stopping you from becoming the person you want to be.

Spirits are low, but they can be raised. That is exactly what shanties have been doing for those in isolation at sea for centuries. Of all the times for shanties to trend again, it is fitting that they reverberate at the perfect frequency that our lives are currently at.

Songs have been sung on the waves for millennia, but advances in technology and trade in the 17th century pushed sailors onto the ocean in great numbers.

We needed to find our places within the isolation, with little paper and few pens to record stories or provide amusement. The majority didn’t have the education to do so even if there was.

Humans are social creatures by nature, we value our social idiosyncrasies. We are not designed to be confined and isolated – on stable ground, never mind on ships. We take away those freedoms to punish, that’s prison.

Today we are surrounded by music. But it is big business. Plenty is made to purely line pockets. Every shanty was written to tell a story. They have a purpose. To lift your spirits. To connect with your being.

Shanties resonate within us, particularly the choral chant and emotive lyrics. Now, in a time where things feel chaotic and yet dull – with the removal of aspects of your old life and the limited outlets for something different beyond work – the hums and echoes of their tone calm and soothe the soul.

Music itself is such a powerful, emotive tool. At the base of all music, before any percussive instruments or beat, was the human voice. The purest of all forms.

In times of mourning or protest, we gather to chant and sing, it overcomes grief, pain, hard times – and isolation. Take singing away and you take away unity. Shanties are stories, but stories best told together. We are all in this together and social media provides platforms – like Tik Tok – that are some of the biggest storytelling mediums in history.

There is one overriding emotion that brings all of us all together, no matter your personality, future goals, wants and needs. That is hope. Hope that something better is around the corner, or that a good thing will last. That is true whether you are introvert or extrovert.

Shanties are making waves on our biggest social platforms for that reason. They are providing this subconscious emotion in their rhythms and rhymes.

We may not relate to the content of their stories, but we all can relate to the idea of unity in harmony. The feeling that times will be better when we complete our voyage and reach our destination of a post-Covid life.

Thomas Murray is a navigational officer in the Merchant Navy with 13 years of service


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 05:29 PM

Most of the "shanties" I've heard aren't shanties, but more rightly, sea songs, or has been already noted, forebitters. But I don't want to get too pedantic. If I were to imagine what Pete Seeger would think, the important thing is that people are singing.

Maybe when we can be social again, we'll have a whole new crop of singers at our son session. They may be doing the (as I've just heard on Facebook) the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air shanty, but whatthehell.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 05:47 PM

Thanks to vectis for more detail in the source(s) of Weller man.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 17 Jan 21 - 08:15 PM

Tik-Tok visitors: Irish Catholic 'shantying' is c.1400 years old, not 600. Columbanus had Greek, Hebrew, Latin, Gaelic &c nouns and verbs for it. None of them would be shanty(ing.)
Not shanty: Heia Viri - Coro de la Universidad Carlos III de Madrid

Observer: I wasn't born at sea but… straight there from the maternity ward. My paternal grandfather was the last of the red hot telodynamic engineers (Google it.) Grampa Conchy would bust out a puirt à beul at the drop of a mallet or dip of an oar. Good times.
Also not shanty: Carolina Chocolate Drops LIVE "Mouth Music"

We understood the sort of thing on Tik-Tok today as the province of Kurt Hahn's Outward Bound culture. They were the nautical equivalent of play or campfire songs. The singers were overly prone to disaster at sea.

The only thing I took from the Gibb article(s) is the good professor still doesn't grok an instrumental or a Catholic African man… “Needs improvement.”


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 10:12 AM

Perhaps because Gibb is primarily concerned with singing, work SONGS.
Playing an instrument might well have the same or similar effect but it is something different. As for the African Catholics, you should be presenting your evidence to us in a way we can comprehend, and making the right connections. Gibb presents a very persuasive case that chantying evolved directly from African-American activities. If you can join this up to more African examples and make solid connections we would all be obliged.

'Needs improvement'! Well your obviously the man for the job!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 10:36 AM

Oops 'you're'!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 12:44 PM

Steve: Perhaps because Gibb is primarily concerned with singing, work SONGS.
Playing an instrument might well have the same or similar effect but it is something different.


An instrumental is not work SONG because... no lyrics. Say what?

Gibb presents a very persuasive case that chantying evolved directly from African-American activities.

Without ever once using the word "celeusma" in a sentence, ergo... "Needs improvement." Considered and eliminated or was the author utterly and completely ignorant of the subject matter?

I've read your post history too Steve, same questions.

I'm not arguing what you or Gibb are "concerned with," only the validity of using "likes" as a metric for naval science.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 01:19 PM

Let's try something we all can relate to - Most people do not like most songs.

Just like today, the 300BC-1830AD waterfront radio dial would be chock-a-block with work song you do not like.

Shanties are the station you like.

All the other stuff is still there, banging away like Tin Pan Alley and with the same effect on the creative/folk process.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 03:08 PM

'utterly and completely ignorant of the subject matter?'

Speaking for myself only, the answer is YES!

Which is why we're waiting for you to pronounce in language we can understand.

Chanties are only a small part of my likes/interest. All English language traditional song, would be more accurate. But if any of this can be related to other languages, which it often can, then I am also interested, for instance Scandinavian ballads.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 04:23 PM

Steve: The Advent and Development of Chanties

Because Tik-Tok & campfire songs are supposed to be fun...


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 04:50 PM

Great to see folk music getting some media and social media attention. Hopefully at least some people will go on to find what other treasures we enthusiasts have been fortunate enough to enjoy for many years :-)


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Calico Jenny
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 08:07 AM

It was fun to learn that Twiddles is considered a sea shanty!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 11:12 AM

Hi Phil,
Yes it was good to be reminded of that thread. How the hell did you get that post to come up at the top? Canny!

Your knowledge is something which we would like to see more of. You post a lot of foreign language quotes and not all of us have access to this. It might seem tedious but direct translation and even simplification/explanation would be helpful for those of us linguistically challenged.

One grey area which you might expand on is the term 'cheering songs'. Do you consider this to mean assisting the rhythm of the work?

When I'm studying the Scandi ballads I have plenty of books in translation, but much of what you are posting is new to many of us.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: RTim
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 02:17 PM

A surprisingly good analysis of the TikTok and Shanty situation....by Adam Neely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1ovAB4vKzw&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR0UWxG5HimonIFp9rNYMe8Y60y0zUEd5rnVwQVkM7mxFoJISQJO-G---Lo


Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 02:36 PM

Excellent stuff, Tim. Adam was very good with the technical aspects but some of the visuals didn't quite fit with what he was explaining. He gave yet another good reason why Wellerman can't be a chanty.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 11:32 PM

Yes, the visuals don't quite fit. I admire Neely's intellect and breadth of experience. It's clear at the same time that, realistically, he doesn't have a lot of time for research when putting these together. I can tell he used a lot of Wikipedia and Hugill 1961, so he basically presents info from those sources but doesn't always know how to interpret that info (i.e. without more contextual knowledge from research).

He included a clip of me leading a hand-over-hand maneuver, ha. But then when he's talking about halyards etc., he's showing sheets and a lot of bunting.

I'm still of the opinion that that stuff (e.g. how a chanty works at halyards) is irrelevant to "The Wellerman" phenomenon. And we'll notice that halyard chanties are rarely taken up by singers during such spikes in interest. Probably, halyard chanties do not have the musical sound that appeals to people. Ironically, the musical sounds that appeal most are those which are most distant from the sounds that make up the core of the genre. Popular items, if not non-chanties, then at most end up being items most peripheral to the core style of the genre.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 05:05 AM

More or Less BBC Radio 4 Tim Harford explains - and sometimes debunks - the numbers and statistics used in political debate.

Will UK fishing quotas increase two thirds in the wake of Brexit? We trawl through the data. Set to a traditional tune!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Brian Peters
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 12:30 PM

Just logged on, anticipating that Gibb might be around these parts, to thank him for his response to ShantyTok, which I found very informative and timely. Thanks, Gibb.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 20 Jan 21 - 05:55 PM

Just been trawling through loads of early minstrel songs that relate to chanties, but too many to enter here so I'll start a new thread tomorrow.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 01:35 AM

Thank you, Brian.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Brian Peters
Date: 21 Jan 21 - 05:06 AM

Looking forward to reading that, Steve.

Gibb, I've sent you a PM.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 05:28 PM

Nathan has signed a record deal according to this report. I hope it doesn't change him too much. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55768333


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Rowan
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 03:14 PM

I'm a young shanty enthusiast. I might be able to help give some context on the current chantey craze.

TikTok originally started in china as an app for making lip syncing videos. It's got music at the heart of its design. You can overlay music tracks into your videos easily, and you can "duet" other people's videos with your own video to sing collaboratively. All this is just to explain that it's a perfect place for a chantey craze to kick off, especially during covid.

On top of that, I cannot stress enough how much young people like chanteys-- or rather they like the idea of chanteys. Video games with shanty soundtracks are really popular just because of the music, and lots of tv shows aimed at young people have jokes about the idea of shanties (the new Netflix She-Ra is a good example). People in my generation know about sea shanties, but they don't actually really know what they are or where to find them. If they are somehow in a situation where they hear a shanty, they love it, but they have no idea where to find more of that kind of music. It might sound weird, but I've heard it from multiple friends over the years. Folk music can be a little opaque if you are first trying to get into it, and people my age just have no idea where to begin. I actually have a friend right now who keeps texting me to ask me to send her links to songs, because she doesn't know how to find them otherwise, except on TikTok.

I could make something up about the youth of today feeling oppressed by technology and longing for the freedom of the open waves, but really I think it just boils down to the fact that shanties are good. People like them. Kids just didn't know where to listen to them until this TikTok craze.

I'm just excited that my weird interest in shanties is suddenly cool among my friends. Maybe some of them will stick around after the craze is over. Maybe some of them will even learn the difference between a shanty and a forbitter song. Maybe.

Sorry for the wall of text. I'm a longtime mudcat lurker, but this is actually my first time posting.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Felipa
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 04:38 PM

a newsclip, with reporters singing along
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJUUcx1KJ-U

thanks for your informative post, Rowan

the Kiffness, who usually makes videos of his own songs, has a youtube video up with his own mix of voices and music added to the chorus of Nathan's Wellerman recording.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 07:33 AM

Can't think of one off-hand but I'd be absolutely amazed if there isn't a website somewhere that gives a good selection and reliable background history. Reinhard's Mainly Norfolk site will have plenty of info but you'd have to tease it out amongst the rest of the folksongs. Of course you could always direct any young uns here and we old farts would be happy to oblige.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 19 Mar 21 - 04:52 PM

BBC News reports; Scottish postman-turned-social media sensation Nathan Evans has reached number one in the UK charts with his version of a 19th Century sea shanty. Evans first found fame on TikTok by singing traditional seafaring songs, before being offered a record deal and giving up his day job.

A pop remix of one song, Wellerman, has spent seven weeks in the top three but has now finally reached the top spot. His rise to number one comes after an appearance on Ant and Dec's Saturday Night Takeaway last weekend.

Wellerman was thought to have been written by New Zealand whalers about an employee of the Weller Brothers shipping company in the 1830s.


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,Tony Mannion
Date: 21 Mar 21 - 08:15 PM

Theres,,No Business like Show Business!
No way is this,er , song gonna take over shantying.What is yerselfs all going on about!
Fall on the mainyard bracing stations, and HAUL!


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: rich-joy
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 05:48 AM

Sorry if this is old news,

but I only just saw the 20March chantey clip from those ALL a cappella country boyz "HOME FREE" (who are very proficient at Beatboxing in their music) and who are all excellent singers/performers,

doing a seasong medley : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLGLUSzzuWU


Cheers, R-J


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 07:34 AM

might i suggest to guest rowan, to look up singer Jim Mageean - Wikipedia particularly his duo work with johnny collins and the group the keelers


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Mar 21 - 11:54 AM

This being the year of TikTok sea songs, take a listen to The Red Sea Shanty: A Pirate Passover:


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GerryM
Date: 30 Mar 21 - 06:00 PM

First get-together of the Redfern Shanty Club in over a year (link to an article in the Guardian).


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 31 Mar 21 - 01:58 AM

audio of Shanty Club motto of Shanty Club - if you don't know the words SING LOUDER.

& some of the Crew were interviewed & singing on radio this morning, around 9.45, what a lovely welcome to my late brekkie.

sandra


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Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GerryM
Date: 06 Apr 21 - 09:14 AM

The Sabbath prayer L'cha Dodi, to the tune of The Wellerman. https://youtu.be/XEHxA0u7-nQ


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