Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]

Subject: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 09:54 AM

What is going on with sea chanteys? This is the third headline I've seen today about them!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/13/sea-shanties-tiktok-nathan-evanss-wellerman/

Blicky.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 10:28 AM

Wellerman never was a chanty. It's even debatable if it came from oral tradition or was ever sung at sea. M, the prefix 'sea' is unnecessary and undesirable. They are just chanties, spell it how you will. The most likely scenario is it was written by Neil Colquhoun c1970, made of bits of other well-known folksongs.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 10:34 AM

ah well its good publicity for the music

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:07 AM

Yesterday's Guardian:

Not just for drunken sailors: how sea shanties took over TikTok

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: meself
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:24 AM

Something about some "game" and Sponge Bob and Pirates of the Caribbean ... but, yeah, it's about time!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jos
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 11:30 AM

There was an interview with a singer - a Scottish postman - on Radio 4 this morning, in which he said it was a song from New Zealand about whaling.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: DaveRo
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:01 PM

This was on Radio 3 yesterday:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p093zbkq

Skip the first 45". There's an interview, and then he sings The Wellerman at 04:30.

He says that the first one he posted was Leave Her Johnny.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,patriot
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:12 PM

The phoney Wellerman song sounds a pretty ghastly reminder of whaling- probably best forgotten, like a lot of folk songs and shanties

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 12:43 PM

Why Best forgotten? does that mean other unpleasant historical events should be forgotten, should we look through the past with rose tinted spectacles?
should we not sing about the first world war because alot of people were killed unnecsssarily.
Should we sing only about the stone round dan murphys door

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:06 PM

Trolling, Dick.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:26 PM

No, making valid points
if i sing matty groves it does not mean i approve of lord darnalds behaviour if i sing the coasts of peru.. it does not mean i am in favour of whaling.
I reckon that on a folk music forum somebody who suggests that a lot of folk songs and shanties should be forgotten is in fact a troll

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:44 PM

The song first appeared in a 1972 book of NZ songs. The Wellers were actually from an Australian whaling company. Half the songs are from journals and newspapers and the other half look as though they have been cobbled together during the revival using bits and pieces and tunes of well-known songs. Some good songs in there though all the same. Where 'Davy Lowston' first appeared.

Yes, Dick, YOU have been trolled which is what Jeri was saying.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 01:58 PM

the guardian quote.. sea shanties 600 years old? i understood most of them dated from the 1850 to 1910?
Jeri, do you know anything about shanties?can you tell us anything about USA shanties, i understood that“Essequibo River” was an american shanty is that right, Jeri? is that so, if so it cannot be 600 years old

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:08 PM

1830 to 1860 was the main era but some were still in use in the 1920s. Phil will be along shortly to tell us about the 600-year-old ones from Africa and Arabia, but what we know of as the chanty in the western world doesn't predate 1830 though there were prototype rowing songs in the Gulf.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 02:23 PM

Jeri, can you make your points clearer if you use the phrase trolling, Dick to me it is not clear who you are referring to?

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,James Phillips
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:06 PM

That's weird, I frequent a few music/music production subreddits and a few times in the past few weeks I've seen questions from people asking about sea shanties, like "What instruments do I need to write for a sea shanty" etc. Weird. I recently heard Morris On's "I'll Go and List as a Sailor," after finding it randomly on YouTube, and have been singing it obsessively ever since. Perhaps the sea shanty's day is coming back!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:18 PM

I give up!!!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: meself
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:34 PM

James Phillips: it sounds like you are conflating shanties/chanteys/chanties and sea-songs generally, which is common among the uninitiated. A shanty/etc. is specifically a work-song; there are many other songs associated with the sea, all of which, along with shanties, can be called sea-songs' - or whatever name you'd like to give them.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 03:42 PM

(I put sea chanteys in the title because that us what all the headlines said.)

So is all this hoopla really about one singer one chantey and tiktok?

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:17 PM

;) A halyard doesn't own a calendar or passport and can't tell a fiddle instrumental from a Greek a capella.

Steve: Phil will be along shortly to tell us about the 600-year-old ones from Africa and Arabia...

You explain the history of “coonjining” with baseless, Afro-centric speculation about the mid-19th century Gulf of Mexico. Never give up! Never surrender!

I explain it as the prehistoric Western chorus helciariorum descended to the Yanks via the contiguous, documented history of the European hobbelier et al. Biblioholic to my last breath.


Meself: Something about some "game" and Sponge Bob and Pirates of the Caribbean ... but, yeah, it's about time! & 600 year old shanties &c &c &c.

Piratical Debauchery, Homesick Sailors and Nautical Rhythms, Reidler, 2017

The Pirates theme music is, supposedly, some sort of meme lifted from Dido & Aeneas: Act III, known as Come Away or the Sailors' Chorus.

Dido and freaking Aeneas!!! And Reidler and the music faculty at Wellesley can't, and I do not mean won't y'all, use “celeusma” in a sentence!?

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:39 PM

Anybody follow any of that? :-)

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 04:52 PM

I Glesca they'll celeusma coals fer a few pence.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:05 PM

For those without the translator program, Dick thought I was sayng HE was trolling (it's a verb, not a phrase), not being trolled.

I didn't see the Guardian article, only the WaPo one, although I caught it last night on Facebook. Those guys sang well.

"So is all this hoopla really about one singer one chantey and tiktok?"
Yep

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 05:58 PM

Some nice mod fixed my post so I sounded slightly less stupid. Thanks, me.

Subject: and it's not a chantey, or shanty, even.
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 21 - 06:05 PM

The song, and some info, are at the New Zealand Folk Song site: Soon May the Wellerman Come

It's also in the DT

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GerryM
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:53 AM

I sang Soon May the Wellerman Come at the Mudcat singaround a couple of weeks ago. That must be what kicked off the current craze.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:23 AM

Jeri congratulations on fixing your post, as a moderator might i give you the honour of a silver star, go to the top of the class

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:28 AM

well done, Gerry.

look what the State Library of New South Wales (the state where Gerry & I live) tweeted today, looks like an answer to the question on subreddit "What instruments do I need to write for a sea shanty"

For all you #SeaShanty singers out there, here are a couple of tunes

direct links to the 2 books in the tweet
Sea shanties [music] / arranged with pianoforte accompaniment by William G. James
Sea shanty [music] : piano solo / John Giles

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:30 AM

Have you all lost your membership or are you just mudcat part times? some times you lose membership due to pc changes

Ray

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:37 AM

Ray, I have chosen to log out. My choice
when i see you hopefully at Saltburn.I will explain

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:14 AM

What are sea shanties and why are they going viral online?

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: DaveRo
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:57 AM

Today's Guardian:
The true story behind the viral TikTok sea shanty hit

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:59 AM

And another one from the Guardian today:

The true story behind the viral TikTok sea shanty hit

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:02 AM

Sorry for the cross-posting there

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:03 AM

Ignorance is bliss!!!! Where is Gibb when you need him?

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:17 AM

The "at least 600 years old" thing IS stupid*, but whattchagonnado? Has anyone written out the music for harp and lute yet?

* in fourteen hundred and ninety two, Columbus's syphilitic crew
Sang a shanty, one or two
As anyone on ship will do
Roll it up in little balls and heave away.
(I'm done)

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News
From: GUEST,guest The Sandman
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:20 AM

Jeri , that is fantastic

Subject: Tech: Sea shanties on TikTok
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:04 AM

Apparently the social media site TikTok is thronged with people singing sea shanties at the moment. Here's a rather nice one, The Wellerman, with extra added mechanical baritone for depth.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 11:51 AM

The Guardian has a piece about the TikTok shanty phenomenon.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 12:34 PM

Steve Gardham knows whereof he speaks...
( I subscribe to Ballad-) If YOU want to sing something, be my guest. It IS nice if you have some idea of the history of things, but *shrug*...

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: meself
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 01:05 PM

Well ... I imagine not all of the early shantymen knew much of the history of things, so ... *shrug* ....

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 02:03 PM

It wasn't encumbent on seamen to know anything other than about how to operate a ship, but they WERE the 'history'. They were living it!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:35 PM

'Twas in January, the year of '42 and we had just left the Gulf and had set our course for Liverpool when we encountered one o' them there sudden squalls. The mate yells out above the screeching wind, "All hands aloft and get them sails reefed. Last man on the rigging gets my rope end!'

Suddenly up steps Harry the Historian. "Hang on, chaps, before you go up there I need to tell you how those chanties came about you're a-going to sing out!"

Splash!

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 03:43 PM

Because I've had to infrquently deal with musical control freaks: if we required historical authenticity, nobody would be singing a se shanty unless they were on a ship, doing the job. Sea songs such as The Wellerman are a different story.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:13 PM

Absolutely, Jeri
Groups get a helluvalot o' fun out o' singing 'em, and audiences seem to enjoy listening, but choosing your audience carefully it doesn't hurt to give out a bit of info now and again.

To all the folks on the Interweb it doesn't matter diddly squat whether Wellerman is a chanty or not as long as they're enjoying it, and it's certainly giving us a lot of publicity even if it is drastically misinformed. Mick, one of our lead singers, was blowing away on local radio and getting us a lot of publicity this very morning because of it.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:27 PM

I'm a great fan of knowing history and 'original' lyrics... when such things are possible to ascertain. There are songs... including shanties/chanties... that we can come pretty close to the originals. Some things by Burns have entered the realm of folk/trad, but some things just appeared in various eras and probably had several versions before collectors ever encountered them... including F.J. Child, Stan Hugill and Joanna Colcord etc.

   It IS possible to distinguish between items and versions which are really folk/trad (i.e. were popularized before recordings made them well-known) and songs and versions which owe their fame to 78s, LPs and CDs since 1927 or so. I do appreciate it when that difference is noted, but it's useless to waste much time making it an issue unless someone actually asks and cares. The recent noise about "The Wellerman" is one opportunity to make a few inroads.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:21 PM

Back in the 70's I had chance to chat with Irving Johnson of Yankee fame, as well as the filmer of "Peking Battles Cape Horn." He had sailed where the chanteys would have been sung in the last age of commercial sail. He said that neither in the brigantine Yankee nor aboard Peking did anyone work to chanteys. On Peking there were too few sailors to spare a useful hand or breath for chanteys and on Yankee the sails were too small.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 05:47 PM

Article with a bunch of TicTok videos. You may never want to hear The Wellerman again, ever, but who knows.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:04 PM

Hi EB
Coincidentally I've just been reading through Stan's Bosun's Locker articles and he says what I've always thought, Chanties were very scarce in the North Sea and in the coasters, partly because crews were so small and partly because they were mostly fore and aft rig and didn't need the heaving and hauling. When are we talking about with Peking? Certainly the tall ships into the 20s were still chantying according to Alan Villiers.

Subject: RE: Sea Chanteys All Over The News [TikTok]
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 05:27 AM

I think this sort of exposure is really good for the music, neither has the original singer sung the song in a way that is very commercialised, for the song to get to many people and be sung as he did is good