BS: UK Tax Return Deadline

Subject: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 11:02 AM

ACCA has lobbied HMRC for a rethink on behalf of its members and the businesses they support.
However, so far HMRC has indicated that the £100 fines for late filing will be issued and then the ordinary appeals process followed, although it will regard Covid factors as a ‘reasonable excuse’ for delays.
In a letter to HMRC Glenn Collins, ACCA head of technical advisory and policy stated: ‘Given the fact that we now have a further national lockdown, the results from our latest survey post the lockdown announcement, the increased need for individuals to isolate, and the worsening response times to queries raised with HMRC, we would urge HMRC to reconsider and extend the deadline until the end of the tax year in order to provide relief for struggling businesses.’
ACCA said its members have highlighted several areas where the pandemic has intensified familiar filing deadline difficulties, as well as introducing new ones.
Richard Halsey, of Halsey and Co in Cheam, Surrey, said: ‘We now have to spend on average three days trying to reach HMRC on webchat just to make contact as our letters and calls go unanswered.
‘That is one of the main reasons we are behind in filing – my staff are simply having to spend disproportionate amounts of time dealing with HMRC issues and assisting with the various government Covid schemes.’
Other firms have experienced difficulties because the requirement for members of staff to deal with childcare as a consequence of schools being closed, meaning fewer resources available for January than planned.
ACCA points out that the current ramping up of pressures comes at the end of what has been an unprecedented year for accountants, as they have had to support clients with a wide range of entirely new measures, including the coronavirus job retention scheme (CJRS), self employed income support scheme (SEISS) and local restrictions support grant (LRSG), as well as advise those who have received no government support and try to manage the impact of the pandemic on their own staff and businesses.
The letter from ACCA also shared the results of a survey of accountants representing 14,000 clients, which discovered that 22.2% of clients were expected to miss the filing deadline. Extrapolated across the 11.7m self-employed individuals required to file in 2020 this could mean around 2.5m entrepreneurs facing penalties.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 11:03 AM

So there you go!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 12:12 PM

this could mean around 2.5m entrepreneurs facing penalties.
"Around 2.5m"?
Would "over 2.5m" not sound better?
After all, 11.7m * 22.2% comes to approx. 2.59m Much closer to 2.6 than 2.5
There again, who expects accuracy from accountants?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 12:29 PM

Absolutely!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 02:21 PM

When I was doing A level Accountancy at 6 Form College,
the lecturer always reeked of whiskey after lunch..

Perhaps Accountants are slightly more accurate in the mornings...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Rain Dog
Date: 19 Jan 21 - 02:56 PM

Ah pfr,those were the days when it was not unusual for workers to go for a lunchtime drink or two. Not so common nowadays.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 04:39 AM

Letter from HMRC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dear all,

ACCA, CIOT, ATT, AAT, ICAEW, ICAS, CAI and IFA - Joint Letter on SA Filing Penalties

Many thanks for your further letters. A number of you have asked me for an update following my letter of 18 December. You think the case for waiving late filing penalties for a period after 31 January has strengthened since then. You are also concerned about our telephony performance, helpline opening hours and the agent dedicated line.

Our position remains that we want to encourage as many people as possible to file on time, even if they can’t pay their tax straight away, for the reasons set out in my last letter. We will continue to encourage timely filing in our communications. Any departure from this simple message increases the risk that taxpayers will miss both filing and payment deadlines unnecessarily or miss out on the simple arrangements we have put in place for securing time to pay.

We know some taxpayers and agents will struggle to meet the deadline, especially given the current public health situation and related restrictions. We are carefully considering how to further ease the position for them, including options that would significantly simplify the handling of reasonable excuse appeals for HMRC, taxpayers and agents (for example, ways of allowing agents to appeal on behalf of multiple clients).

Filing rates are still holding up well. We will continue to keep the situation closely under review between now and the filing deadline. We will not start to issue penalties until we have completed our review of the options and monitoring of filing rates and confirmed which approach we will take.

I want to reiterate that no taxpayer or agent who is unable to submit a return by 31 January for reasons related to the pandemic should worry that a penalty will be payable; it won’t, and we will make the process of cancelling penalties as simple and easy as possible for all concerned.

Turning to your concerns about HMRC’s helplines, I appreciate the difficulties that your members are having due to us not offering a preferential service for agents. At the beginning of the pandemic, we decided that we were not able to provide agents a preferential service as we had to protect the full range of customer services provided by HMRC. Performance on our Agent Dedicated Line has much improved since April and May. Although wait times remain higher than agents were used to pre Covid, the majority of calls are being handled, and agents are receiving similar customer service to our other telephone lines. We continue to monitor demand, supply and performance across this area, alongside our other business as usual services, the Covid schemes and EU exit transition, and aim to provide the best, balanced service we can.

We will be opening on the weekend of the Self Assessment deadline (30th and 31st January 2021). Our telephone lines will be available 8am to 6pm Saturday and 9am to 6pm Sunday and our webchat service will be available both days 8am to 8pm. We decided not to open our telephone lines over the penultimate weekend due to limited expected contact.

I am happy for you to share this letter with your members.

Kind regards,

Jim Harra CHIEF EXECUTIVE AND FIRST PERMANENT SECRETARY

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 08:03 AM

Reasonable response from HMRC!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 08:15 AM

My God, opening this thread has me overheated with frantic expectation every time. And it's so exciting that "every time" is at least once every thirty seconds...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 03:07 AM

My boss seems to think that knowing HMRC as he does, penalties will still be issued for late tax returns and them we will have to appeal - more time wasted!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:53 AM

Of course they'll issue penalty notices and leave you to appeal.
If HMRC just said that they'd not charge penalties as long as returns and payments were received by (say) 31st March then businesses and accountants would see that as a new deadline, and aim to retain the money until the last moment, and also stop panicking about getting the returns in.
It's a bit steep blaming HMRC & Brexit for inability to submit returns which should have been submitted by 31 Jan 2021, when they cover figures up to 5 April 2020. That's nine clear months to get the figures organised and the forms completed.

But. The memo you quote above makes clear: I want to reiterate that no taxpayer or agent who is unable to submit a return by 31 January for reasons related to the pandemic should worry that a penalty will be payable; it won’t, and we will make the process of cancelling penalties as simple and easy as possible for all concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 06:02 AM

I am just blaming covid. You have no idea how much extra work this has generated.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 06:28 AM

We have over 100 clients making monthly furlough claims, and associated payroll work which takes up a considerable amount of time normally spent dealing with tax returns - speaks for itself I think!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 07:57 AM

Final week to the deadline - we really do not need snow at this time!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 09:42 AM

Today HMRC has announced that Self Assessment customers will not receive a penalty for filing their 2019-20 tax return late, as long as they file online by 28 February. They are still encouraging customers who have not yet filed to do so by 31 January, if possible.

Customers still need to pay their Self Assessment tax bill by 31 January. Interest will be charged from 1 February on any outstanding liabilities. Customers can pay online, or through their bank, or by post before they file.

If any customer cannot afford to pay by 31 January, they may be able to set up an affordable plan and pay in monthly instalments. But they will need to file their 2019-20 tax return before setting up a time to pay arrangement.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Jos
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 10:08 AM

If people are going to pay by 31 January they will need to know how much to pay. How will they know, if they haven't finished their tax return?

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 11:27 AM

There lies the catch!!

More than 8.9m customers have already filed their tax return. HMRC is encouraging anyone who has not yet filed their tax return to do so by 31 January, if possible.
Anyone who cannot file their return by the 31 January deadline will not receive a late filing penalty if they file online by 28 February.
Taxpayers are still obliged to pay their bill by 31 January. Interest will be charged from 1 February on any outstanding liabilities. They can pay online, via their bank, or by post before they file. More information on how to pay is available at www.gov.uk.
Taxpayers who cannot afford to pay their tax bill on time can apply online to spread their bill over up to 12 months. But they will need to file their 2019-20 tax return before setting up a time to pay arrangement, so HMRC is encouraging everyone to do this as soon as possible.
HMRC chief executive Jim Harra said: ‘We want to encourage as many people as possible to file their return on time, so we can calculate their tax bill and help them if they cannot pay it straight away.
‘But we recognise the I’mense pressure that many people are facing in these unprecedented times and it has become increasingly clear that some people will not be able to file their return by 31 January.
‘Not charging late filing penalties for late online tax returns submitted in February will give them the breathing space they need to complete and file their returns, without worrying about receiving a penalty. We can reasonably assume most of these people will have a valid reason for filing late, caused by the pandemic.’
Normally, late filing penalties are applied to all returns filed after the 31 January deadline. Those penalties are cancelled if the customer has a reasonable excuse for filing late. However, this year HMRC is not issuing late filing penalties for a month to help taxpayers and agents who are unable to meet the deadline. Late filing penalties will not be issued for online tax returns received by 28 February.
HMRC has previously said that it was keeping the situation closely under review. It has become increasingly clear from the filing rate that some taxpayers and agents cannot file on time, and the department has now determined that ensuring no taxpayer will receive late filing penalties if they file online before the end of February is the best way to help them.
HMRC has increased support for taxpayers who may need help with their tax liabilities. Once they have completed their 2019-20 tax return, they can set up an online payment plan to spread Self Assessment bills of up to £30,000 over up to 12 monthly instalments. They can apply for self-serve Time to Pay via gov.uk. Interest will be applied to any outstanding balance from 1 February 2021.
More than 42,000 taxpayers have already used the service, without needing to call HMRC, to manage their liabilities totalling almost £130m.
Taxpayers with bills over £30,000, or who need longer than 12 months to pay their bill, can call HMRC on 0300 200 3822 to discuss time to pay.
Taxpayers who are required to make Payments on Account, and know their bill is going to be lower than the previous tax year, for example due to loss of earnings because of Covid-19, can reduce their Payments on Account. Visit GOV.UK to find out more about Payments on Account and how to reduce them.
Anyone trying to contact HMRC in the run up to the deadline can do so via webchat, Twitter or the Self Assessment phone helpline. They may also find the information they need via the free HMRC app or their Personal Tax Account.
Phil Hall, head of public affairs & public policy at AAT, said: ‘AAT has been urging HMRC to either extend the self-assessment deadline or waive late filing penalties for several months, in order to help accountants and tax agents to support their clients without incurring financial penalties.
‘We therefore welcome today’s announcement that no late filing penalties will be applied until 28 February 2021. During a time of unprecedented challenge, this decision will help millions of taxpayers and also relieves some of the pressure on an incredibly busy accountancy sector who are doing their utmost to support individual taxpayers and businesses.’
Helpline and webchat
The phone helpline and webchat will both be open on 30 and 31 January, in addition to the weekday service. Opening times are below:
Telephony and card payment lines: Saturday 30 January: 08:00 to 18:00 and Sunday 31 January: 09:00 to 18:00
Webchat: Saturday 30 January and Sunday 31 January: 08:00 to 20:00

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 04:38 PM

Good to know that the combined accountants' and tax institutes have won the day!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 01:34 AM

I forecasted to the day when the tax return deadline would be extended. Just prepared an Entrepreneur Claim for a client saving him up to £110k in tax!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 05:17 AM

We didn't need the additional 28 days, all of our clients' tax returns now submitted!!! Entrepreneurial relief successfully claimed for one client - saved him £120k !!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 05:20 AM

Entrepreneurs’ Relief that is!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 05:21 AM

Entrepreneurs' tax relief was introduced under the Labour party government in 2008, to take effect from the 2008/09 tax year. It was introduced primarily as an incentive for people to establish businesses in the UK by reducing the rate of Capital Gains Tax on business disposal.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 10:08 AM

Introduced by Labour, exploited and abused under the tories...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 01:00 PM

Impossible to "exploit and abuse" - the circumstances decide whether eligable for Entrepreneurs' Relief. The rules are quite clear, and HMRC are tough on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Jan 21 - 01:09 PM

Bonz - yes but.. not all accountants are as scrupulously 'honest' as you...

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Jos
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 07:30 AM

I submitted my form on the website but, when I tried to pay, it kept telling me I was £0.02 in credit and had nothing to pay. Presumably because the tax return was still going through the system.
When I tried to pay anyway, the system kept trying to steer me into setting up a direct debit. That would mean giving the inland revenue access to my bank account, which I did not want to do, even for a single payment.
When I tried to pay from my debit card they kept warning me that to pay that way I would have to pay a fee - I went ahead all the same, and the fee turned out to be less than a pound. I am happy to pay that to keep the government out of my bank account.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 08:23 AM

My record for filing a tax return near to the deadline was 11:45pm on January 31 2009! I haven't needed to do one since 2013.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 10:01 AM

I just skimmed some of this. When does your tax season open?

Here in the US employers and banks are supposed to have payroll tax information (W2 form for wages, form 1099 for contract work or interest) by January 31 and we have until April 15 to file taxes. If the government owes you a refund then you can file later without penalty, but if you own them then there is a penalty for filing late.

A lot of people will be claiming unpaid "stimulus" payments from last April and others from January. I have a friend in this situation, who will be scrambling to file to get the extra total $1800 (so far).

I've been able to file right after Jan. 31 some years, but I don't have all of the forms from sources of income (this year for contract work - the 1099 form).

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 10:47 AM

It's at least 25 years since I had to do a tax return. I'm a very simple man.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 12:26 PM

In the UK if your only income is wages taxed under the PAYE system or state pension which will be covered by personal allowance, then you will not be required to submit a tac return. But once you have any other income then you must submit a tax return unless told not to by HMRC.

However, if you think you have paid too much tax then you must submit a tax return in order to claim a refund.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Jan 21 - 05:30 PM

I've got more than just that and I still haven't had to do a tax return for decades.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 06:20 AM

In the UK if your only income is wages taxed under the PAYE system or state pension which will be covered by personal allowance, then you will not be required to submit a tac return. But once you have any other income then you must submit a tax return unless told not to by HMRC.
If you have another source of income you may have to submit a tax return, but check your details here first: HMRC

However, if you think you have paid too much tax then you must submit a tax return in order to claim a refund.
If you think you've overpaid tax this does NOT mean you will have to complete a tax return. Instead, contact HMRC

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 06:58 AM

I did that first link. Nope, no need to do one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 07:07 AM

Yes, Steve.
I was commenting more on the assertions of who needs to do a tax return. Bonzo seemed to be advocating that some people would need to do one when that wasn't the case.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 12:38 PM

I do not intend to argue with someone who constantly thinks he knows better.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 07:11 PM

I do not intend to argue with someone who constantly thinks he knows better.

It is HMRC who know better, and I was quoting the requirements to you. They are laid out to be readable by all
I have made posts previously which made clear that your ideas about tax requirements do not always match up to the facts. (on income tax and on VAT)
If you can show where I am in error, and your comments were in fact correct, then please say so.
Otherwise it is not a case of me thinking that I know better.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 07:27 PM

"In the UK if your only income is wages taxed under the PAYE system or state pension which will be covered by personal allowance, then you will not be required to submit a tac return. But once you have any other income then you must submit a tax return unless told not to by HMRC."

That's what you said, Bonzo. I haven't had to fill in a tax return this millennium. But I don't just have a state pension. I have a teacher's pension as well and I've had savings for many years, since long before the £1000 tax-free savings allowance came in, and other occasional dribs and drabs coming in. Every year I get a coding notice, with which both the taxman and I are always generally happy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 05:15 AM

Yes of course I was forgetting private pensions to which HMRC seem to allocate part of the personal allowance first - although in certain circumstances tax can be saved by choosing the order in which the personal allowance is allocated against different types of income - for example!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 05:30 AM

”Yes of course I was forgetting private pensions to which HMRC seem to allocate part of the personal allowance first”

My understanding (and I’ve been out of ‘the game’ for nine years now, so my memory is getting slightly hazy on the details) is that both pensions are taken as a total and the PA deducted, the result being the amount of total taxable pay. As there is no mechanism for the deduction of tax at source from the state pension, the whole amount of tax due is deducted from the private pension by virtue of the tax code issued by HMRC to the private pension provider.

That’s how mine works - my state pension plus 2nd state pension exceed the personal allowance, and tax on the taxable portion is deducted from my private pension (along with tax on the whole of the private pension).

Of course, my tired old nine-years-into-retirement brain could be getting confused, but I’m sure that’s the methodology.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 06:01 AM

Yes that's what happens with mine, then on my salary I am taxed at basic rate.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Feb 21 - 06:21 AM

Yep, that’s what I’d expect. See - I haven’t completely lost it, no matter what SWMBO tries to tell me! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 10:03 AM

It's a complete waste of time trying to phone HMRC at the moment, even on the Agents' special line. In the unlikely event of actually getting through, the idiot on the other end is almost certainly at home, so all the background noise under the sun is there, and they do not have access to all necessary information.

So despite Mr Parsons' protestations, the best and quickest way with least hassle to secure a tax refund is to submit a tax return................before 28/02/21 to avoid a penalty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 03:17 PM

So despite Mr Parsons' protestations, the best and quickest way with least hassle to secure a tax refund is to submit a tax return................before 28/02/21 to avoid a penalty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Only if you are required to file a self-assessment return.
My earlier response was to the claim:
In the UK if your only income is wages taxed under the PAYE system or state pension which will be covered by personal allowance, then you will not be required to submit a tac return. But once you have any other income then you must submit a tax return unless told not to by HMRC.
However, if you think you have paid too much tax then you MUST submit a tax return in order to claim a refund.

HMRC don't want to have to deal with tax returns from people who are not required to submit one.
The only people likely to gain from the submission of unnecessary tax returns are accountants.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 03:54 PM

No Nigel Parsons, a tax return would set out clearly if a tax refund is due, and provided that bank account details have been included, the refund will be automatically transferred to your bank account.

Information given over the phone - if you can get through, is more likely to attract further scrutiny by HMRC, and could lead to an investigation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 04:47 PM

So despite Mr Parsons' protestations, the best and quickest way with least hassle to secure a tax refund is to submit a tax return................before 28/02/21 to avoid a penalty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once again, to rebut the false claims being made.
If you are taxed by PAYE, on income from work and/or pensions, and you do not meet the requirements to have to submit a self-assessment return, a refund can be requested online/over the phone.
Ignore any warning about a 'penalty', no matter how many exclamation marks it carries.
You cannot be penalised for being late with a return which you are not required to submit.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Feb 21 - 04:51 PM

Just to show I'm not making this up: HMRC
Where it clearly states:
Penalties
You’ll get a penalty if you need to send a tax return and you miss the deadline for submitting it or paying your bill.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 02:15 AM

Getting wound up are we Nigel Parsons!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 05:46 AM

I'm not, but I can't speak for you.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Tax Return Deadline
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 21 - 06:13 AM

I've received the odd small refund or have had small sums added to my monthly tax bill automatically as little anomalies are spotted by Mr/Ms Taxperson. These occasional corrections are explained carefully to me with my notice of coding. I've never had to quibble, once I've checked what's going on, and tax returns never enter into it. I simply never do 'em.