Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4]


Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump

Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 05:07 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 06:31 AM
Donuel 26 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM
Donuel 26 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 04:50 PM
robomatic 26 Jan 21 - 06:07 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jan 21 - 06:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 08:07 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 09:00 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 09:26 PM
robomatic 26 Jan 21 - 09:56 PM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jan 21 - 06:02 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 06:40 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 06:50 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 07:04 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 07:20 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jan 21 - 08:32 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM
punkfolkrocker 27 Jan 21 - 10:33 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 11:06 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 05:39 PM
robomatic 10 Feb 21 - 03:16 PM
Helen 10 Feb 21 - 04:15 PM
Mrrzy 11 Feb 21 - 06:55 PM
Stilly River Sage 11 Feb 21 - 09:10 PM
Thompson 12 Feb 21 - 04:52 AM
SPB-Cooperator 12 Feb 21 - 05:00 AM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Feb 21 - 08:33 AM
DMcG 13 Feb 21 - 10:11 AM
Backwoodsman 13 Feb 21 - 10:29 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 21 - 10:33 AM
Stilly River Sage 13 Feb 21 - 11:14 AM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 21 - 11:31 AM
Stilly River Sage 13 Feb 21 - 11:34 AM
McGrath of Harlow 13 Feb 21 - 11:55 AM
SPB-Cooperator 13 Feb 21 - 12:36 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 21 - 05:07 PM
Jeri 13 Feb 21 - 09:03 PM
Steve Shaw 13 Feb 21 - 09:10 PM
Stilly River Sage 14 Feb 21 - 12:13 AM
DMcG 14 Feb 21 - 11:52 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Feb 21 - 06:48 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Feb 21 - 07:00 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 05:07 AM

"This is the trial of a criminal."

This little sentence completely undermines your case. If a UK newspaper printed that about a public figure without a criminal record yet to be brought to court it would compromise the process to such an extent that the accused person would quite rightly be able to claim that a fair trial was now impossible. In addition, as Trump can't be punished (by fine or imprisonment) even if convicted by the Senate, the process can't be regarded as in any way equivalent to due process in federal law. You are making the mistake of equating terms used in federal law with what may happen in the Senate: there will be no vetted or sworn-in jury; you are using terms such as "crime" and "convicted" in a loose, generic sense when, in law, you would rightly be pulled up for so doing (it's fine to say "it would be a crime to overcook this beautiful piece of fish" because we'd all know what you meant, whereas in Trump's case you are tendentiously prejudging the issue before he's been tried). As for witnesses, the Senate doesn't even have to call any (they didn't last time), and likely won't do so, as the last thing the Democratic Party wants is for Biden to have to endure the distraction of a protracted process. If you did that in federal law you would be accused of setting up a kangaroo court; as Trump can't be punished by a Senate trial, the process can't be regarded as being in any way equivalent. Even the term "trial" here is not equivalent to what happens in due legal process, much as you would like it to be. He can be tried in the ordinary courts later. One step at a time. It's all in your constitution.

One more point about witnesses and victims. Trump's alleged crime is not that he stormed the Senate. He is accused of whipping up a mob in a speech. How many Senators were in that crowd? I'm afraid that "I saw it on the telly" doesn't cut it. Camera angles, editing, etc... Senators who were attacked physically, or intimidated by a mob, are victims of a different crime yet to to be called up. You can perhaps see how this might go if loose interpretations and loose terminology are used. He will have a legal team who'll jump all over you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM

Incidentally again, there is no jury and there will likely be no called witnesses. It is not true to say that he misrepresented nothing. At the very least, the suggestion that Senators will form some kind of "jury" is tendentiously wide of the mark, and is guilty of that loose terminology I mentioned. Like most decent people, I should like to see Trump rot in jail. But I'm not going to wrap up that aspiration in the sort of wishful thinking that would be in danger of trumping your justice system. As Judge Webster Thayer might have said about Sacco and Vanzetti, they're reds and what more do you need...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 06:31 AM

"I am allowed tospeak in abbreviated and clever ways not found in essays or newspaper descriptions."

As indeed are we all. But by our fruits shall others know us, eh?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

Keep yer paws off my fruits pal. In so many ways you are like the republicans over here Steve.
Republicans used to brag they were staunch and firm. Then they got stauncher and evolved into lonely empty conspiracy theorists who find a home with like minded conspiracists. Now they seek retribution against truth tellers. They are on the edge of a ledge screaming "Believe the lie or die".
To continue your campaign to criticise critical thinkers by being critical of individuals who think for themslves makes you a dead ender. You want things like not being alone or being loved that are not my priorities here, so do things that get what you want. Hate campaigns against others won't get you there. You could stick to recipes or change. Seeing that you have not changed in 20 years and your favorite subject is yourself say something, I'm giving up on you. Instead of a friend in discussion you are now just a resulting example of your own making.
Likewise;
Rudy Gulliani is now facing a 1.3 Billion dollar lawsuit for lieing about the Dominion voting machine corporation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM

Senator Leahy will preside over the trial WHICH WILL HAVE WITNESS'"
(please disregard the guesser and chief)
Supream court Chief Justice Roberts will not preside over the trial with his reasons being his own. We are left to speculate fear could be part of the equation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 04:50 PM

Do calm down.

Not once have I asserted that no witnesses will be called. I'm saying that witnesses do not HAVE to be called. That, among other aspects, distinguishes a Senate trial from a trial in an ordinary court. In order for the proceedings to be expedited in short order, I'm suggesting (never guessing) that witnesses will likely not be called. No more than that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 06:07 PM

Dontrumpuel:

Once again you are filling the threadlines with surmise and supposition and warning us in advance we are supposed to tolerate it because you are allowed tospeak in abbreviated and clever ways not found in essays or newspaper descriptions.

Your previous allustion to Roman history was a complete mishmash of Roman practice and history. Robert Byrd would be aghast. You continue to shadow the character of the Former Occupant in that you can say anything absolutely anything with no sense of whether it is true or false. There is a technical term for this, often used on the now former President. It is based on the fact that he didn't respect the truth enough to even reliably lie. You seem to be too clever to open a book or click on Wikipedia.

The problem with this is that when you get easy facts wrong it means you can get more extended facts wrong and no one can trust that you will do the work to get anything right. And then when you try to use logic on these 'alternative facts' you not only get wrong conclusions on the premise of GIGO, but you can't be relied on to do the logic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 06:45 PM

Steve, I do find it annoying that you, in the UK, continue to pontificate about the US House and Senate and ex-president when you weren't sitting here watching the entire thing unfold on television and haven't been reading the new accounts of the atrocities committed as they come forward every day. You're reading it summarized later in newspapers by pundits.

The facts are that Trump is a criminal. And if he wrote a private pardon to reveal later in hopes of avoiding being found guilty, that proves it (and the Supreme Court will eventually have to sort it out). And I'm willing to bet he did just such a thing to pull out later if he thinks he can benefit from it. He's a criminal whose attorneys have gotten him off so far, by running out the clock. You can use "con artist" or "Grifter" or "alleged criminal" if you want to, to stay safe as far as libel laws are concerned, but for millions of Americans, Trump is out and out a criminal, and your lectures about the topic aren't changing minds.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM

I'm afraid that "I saw it on the telly" doesn't cut it. Camera angles, editing, etc....

In this case I think it does potentially cut it, Steve. The accusation is that he stirred up and sought to enrage the crowd and sent it up to the Capital, falsely promising to accompany it.. The television record of his speech on January 6th is direct evidence of what he did on that day. Not edited extracts, the entire speech.

Clearly the legal status of the Senate hearing isn't that of a criminal court, and the outcome does not allow for anything equivalent to the penalties available in a criminal court - though that is purely contingent. It could easily have been possible and perfectly legal for such penalties to be within the power of the Senate. However I think it is correct to use the term "trial", without implying that the word has precisely the same meaning as in the case of a conventional criminal trial.

However the offence of insurrection, including directly inciting insurrection is very definitely a criminal act, subject to further trial in a criminal court, which could potentially impose very severe penalties (I would suspect that theoretically insurrection couldx in the US be subject to capital punishment.) I would doubt if the decision of the Senate in this matter either way would be seen in such a court as relevant to its finding.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 08:07 PM

Maggie, of course we saw the whole thing on telly. Perhaps you think we're still in the Dark Ages, getting snippets fed to us in yesterday's papers. We have a choice of rolling 24-hour news channels and we see exactly what you see. I can find out about the ins and outs of your constitution just as easily as you can and it has been a matter of some interest to me. To assume that Brits automatically cannot comprehend what we see happening on the telly (which is only what you see too - remind me how far from Washington you live...) is, well... And there's ever such a slight but detectable undercurrent in your post that we Brits aren't quite as entitled to speak as freely about this as you are. And your constant insistence that Trump is a criminal is very puzzling to me. If you said that about anyone in this country charged with a serious crime before he'd even been tried, you would seriously jeopardise his being brought to trial at all. It is an untenable position. What he is accused of is a heinous crime. The Senate cannot bring about a CRIMINAL conviction (which you know already) and he cannot be sanctioned for a crime until he is found guilty in a ordinary court. For chrissake, the whole of our democracy is predicated on the rule of law. No short cuts, no what more do you need, no kangaroo courts, no lynchings. We are all very angry with Trump (though you have suffered more, obviously); he is not a uniquely-American problem. Why, he's given succour not only to the bloody idiot, a Trump-lite if ever there was one, who runs this country and who has arguably done us much more damage than Trump has done to the US, but also to the menace in the Kremlin. Everybody's angry. He's turned the world upside down. But we have to be patient. You are not showing that right now, which is going to be counterproductive, and if you think that we Brits "don't get it" as much as you Americans, then consider the unadorned input of at least one of your fellow countrymen in this and related threads...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 09:00 PM

So now 45 Republican Senators have tried to shoot down the impeachment trial. So much for convicting him in the Senate. I hope you've got enough wise people to decide the next step, hopefully a decision uninformed by some of the anger we've seen here. You need to unite your country, remember?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 09:26 PM

Further to that, the reason given by the Republicans is that, as one Senator commented, "My vote today to dismiss the article of impeachment is based on the fact that impeachment was designed to remove an officeholder from public office," Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia said in a statement released after the vote. "The Constitution does not give Congress the power to impeach a private citizen."

If that's the widely-held view among the 45, with only five demurring (way short of seventeen, even if those five were all going to vote with the Democratic Party), the impeachment is now dead in the water. I wonder whether the Democratic Party Senators might consider that it's best to accept that, butt out and save face. After all, that could be better than being trashed in a Senate trial that many would now see as being pointlessly symbolic only, and a distraction from the rebuilding job that Joe Biden is trying to do. That seems quite important to me, and I didn't read it on the back of a fag packet...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 09:56 PM

Trmp has had a 'gift' for want of a better word, of exploring the edges, boundries, and corners of not just proper behavior but legal behavior including precedent.

Well before his political career he was in money difficulties; he supposedly sued Deutsche Bank for its part in the financial crisis which made it (supposedly) impossible for him to pay back.....Deutsche Bank. This is cutting edge legal maneuvering. From the guy who cut his legal teeth at the side of Roy Cohn.

For a guy who spent years in New York real estate finagling the system, and he actually borrowed money from one part of Deutsche Bank to pay back the other loans he couldn't otherwise pay*, finagling Washington politics is more fun with lower risks.

I can see Donald telling Rudy Giuliani: "You're no Roy Cohn!"

*Chaos & Corruption- Trump's Secrets at Deutsche Bank


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM

Good to hear that pointed out. We know that he an extremely bad man who has done a lot of harm. But I've always thought that it's a severe mistake to also regard him as an idiot, and I've said that several times here. He isn't, and maybe that should be at least part of the considerations as to how we should now treat him. He is fully capable of continuing to cause mayhem, and what he needs most of all is to stay in the public eye for as long as he can.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:02 AM

Surely there is a basic flaw in the argument that Trump cannot be impeached because he is no longer in office.

He has already been impeached a few days ago, while he was still president. What the Senate is doing is not to impeach him, but to determine whether that should take effect, and what that effect should be. That is a different thing.

Of course arguments about what is right or wrong, or what happened, are completely irrelevant. Nor does anyone expect them to feel bound by the solemn oath they have taken - "“I solemnly swear (or affirm) that in all things appertaining to the trial of ____, now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help me God.” Those voting to acquit will be guided by politics, and personal advantage. "Impartial justice" has nothing to do with it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:40 AM

It's important to remember that the impeachment process, through to trial, has nothing to do with the US justice system. The process itself is purely political (though the sentiments driving it, such as outrage, anger and a sense of injustice, and that the man would be a danger if he ever got into office again) are clearly not, for many of his opponents. That's why a cool head is needed. Prematurely branding him outloud a criminal is not keeping a cool head. Though in theory an acquittal by the Senate (almost inevitable) wouldn't affect process in a later criminal trial, as you said yesterday, I predict that millions of his supporters would be outraged to see things move on from an acquittal here to a criminal court case, and even more outraged to see him thrown in jail. The story so far is that, yes, he has been impeached, but he has not been tried by the Senate. I think I the wisest move would be to stop right here. He will not be found guilty - for a second time in a year - and that will translate into egg on a lot of Democrat faces if Trump has anything to do with it. Here's a man who has manoeuvred himself into a populist position in which he has shown that he can get away with almost anything. Treat him like an idiot at your peril.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:50 AM

Leader of the terrorist organization The American Taliban (Trumpists) Donal J Trump has inspired the mob to kill, plunder and deficate in the Capitol and his Senators wants us to turn the page, move on and not be so silly and vindictive.

Well I saw the thing comin' from the white house
It had the one long horn, and two big mouths
I commenced to shakin' and I said "Ooh-eee"
It looks like a purple people eater to me
It was a one-eyed, two mouthed, lieing' purple people eater
(One-eyed, two mouthed, lyin' purple people eater)
A one-eyed, two mouthed, lyin' purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me (two mouths?)
Well he came down to earth and lived in a golf course
I said Mr. Purple People Eater, don't eat me
I heard him say in a voice so gruff
"I wouldn't eat you 'cause you're for Trump"
It was a one-eyed, two-mouthed, lieing purple people eater
One-eyed, two-mouthed' lieing purple people eater
One-eyed, two mouthed, lieing purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me (two mouths?)
Outta one side yelling hang Mike Pense
Outta th'other kill Pelosi and Chuck
FUCK
It was a one-eyed, two mouthed, lieing' purple...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:04 AM

As I said, a cool head is needed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

Its important to remember that Steve has a grip on one chestnut and has repeated it twenty times. Its sumpthin a grandpa would do.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:20 AM

"I'm giving up on you" is what you said 24 hours ago (to the minute) and I welcomed it. More fake news, unfortunately. A little like the "twenty times" in that post.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM

Its a song not a philosophy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 08:32 AM

Those who back Trump are going to be outraged whatever happens. I don't think there is much profit in trying to pacify them.

Those kind of considerations might affect how the Attorney General determines whether to prosecute, but I can't see tgem prefenting other court challenges for Trump arising from Jan 6th.

So far as the questiin of constitutionality is concerned I'd have thought the only body with any authority to decide is not the Senate but the Supreme Court. The Senate doesn't have any authority to determine that kind of thing, only its own procedures within the liits of what the Constitution provides. . know the court shies away from any involvement with the matter of impeachment, as being a purely political matter, but a question of constitutionality should never be seen as a purely political matter.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM

On the lighter side I would like to add one more preposterous punishment for Trump AKA "Killem With Kindness";
At the next Acadamy Awards Ceremony, Award an Honorary Oscar to Donald J Trump for the most convincing fake Reality Show on Earth.
THEN, beginning with Steven Spielburg, beat Donald J Trump to death with his own Oscar. Trump's famous last words will be "Et tu Sylvester Stallone, Stormy danials, lady ga,,, ug ow,___ ?".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM

But you can't bend the rules, Kevin. As I said, the sentiments behind the impeachment are complex, but the process itself has to be purely political. The constitutional position is that impeachment is there to serve the country's best interests (to remove a bad person from office, and, optionally, to bar them from future office), not to punish a miscreant. Maybe that's what we both mean, I dunno. And I wouldn't have though that the Supreme Court would be in at the beginning of a future criminal trial. At the end maybe, once a verdict has been reached and after a protracted period of wrangling...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:33 AM

American justice procedures have got far too complicated
since the good old tar, feather, and rope, days of the wild west..

.. but at least one tradition still survives, corrupt politician trump has been run out of town...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM

No question of bending the rules here, Steve. The matter of determining whether an impeachment process can be concluded after the person who has been impeached has left office is a purely constitutional matter, which should have nothing to do with the Senate. It's quite distinct from the task of whether the impeachment should be conformed or not, which is purely a matter for the Senate, and has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. And, as you say, no punishment is involved. That is what criminal courts are for.

Interestingly, so far as I am aware, there is no mechanism for dealing with the problem if the Supreme Court does act improperly or even unconstitutionally. (I think if it declined to rule on the constitutionality of impeaching a dead parrot, so to speak, I think it would be failing in its duty.)

But for the Senate to decide a constitutional matter like this strikes me as a clear breach of the principle of the separation of powers.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:06 AM

Evidence:
"All hell is going to break loose tommorrow. Just understand this. All hell is going to break loose tommorrow. It's gonna be moving. Its gonna be quick." Jan 5 Steve Bannon pod cast.

"This is not a day for fantasy, this is a day for maniacalfocus. Focus, Focus Focus. We're coming in right over the target, okay? Exactly--this is the point of ATTACK w've always wanted."
Jan. 6 Steve Bannon Podcast.

source: "WAR ROOM" Podcast


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 05:39 PM

The facial Identificaton software the FBI uses is called Clear View.
-not to be confused with clearview cable, a monopolized right wing local news servive which is part of the Sinclair Group.-

The ID software is excellent in identifying white faces but drops to half as effective when deaing with Blacks. It is working quite well with the capitol terrorists.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 03:16 PM

I thought the idea of having a separate thread for what I'd call: "Trump legal fallout" was a good one.
Comes now that Georgia prosecutors open criminal investigation of trump phone call.
And Trump filed against Georgia's officials before the end of 2020.

Someone should come up with a matrix as these things develop:

Federal
State
Local

by filing time; location; subject matter.

Maybe one of those walls full of dry-erase boards with photos and yarn linkages stretched out all serial-killer like!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Helen
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 04:15 PM

Yes, robomatic, for a serial offender! I think it will become very complicated to follow all the stories.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 06:55 PM

Apparently they *are* after him for voter fraud, not for pretending to live in Fla but for what he tried in Georgia.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 09:10 PM

New York State also has him in their sights.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Feb 21 - 04:52 AM

What benefits do ex-presidents normally get?
I wonder how the insurrection would have gone if Trump had actually gone down and led the lads in.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Feb 21 - 05:00 AM

Isn't the impeachment trial a bit like a criminal trial where half the jury are members of the accused's family?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 08:33 AM

Listening to the news today the basis of the Republicans defence if the turnip is acquitted by the Senate, then that legitimises hate speech and incitement to violence, and that worries me that white supremacists will see this as legitimising opening their vile mouths.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 10:11 AM

You are right, SPB, but I don't see anything smooth path out out this. We may well get the result that the majority of Senators agree Trump did incite the riot, but that the result still falls short of the 67. How you go forward when most lawmakers agree a major crime has taken place but they are powerless to do anything is not clear.

The constitution would be effectively broken: indictment does not work. Invoking the 14th amendment is a problem as well -in the longer term I can see it becoming a tool for any party to disqualify anyone they do not agree with if it is used.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 10:29 AM

“Pooh”, said Piglet, “If they don’t find him guilty, does that mean he’s innocent?”

“No Piglet”, said Pooh, “It means they’re all guilty.”.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 10:33 AM

The lawmakers are not the nuts and bolts of the justice system. Due process in the criminal justice system doesn't apply to what's happening here. Whether this attempt in Congress fails or not, Trump could be charged with criminal offences and brought to the normal courts. I don't see much of a constitutional crisis. I can see a lot of wrangling over what to do next. Good luck with that, yanks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:14 AM

The crisis is the example he set by inciting a coup. As the pundits say, if he isn't found guilty, if he gets away with it, that riot will be considered a training session for future presidents.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:31 AM

Well that should help to inform your next move. This move can do little except for banning him from a future presidency, and even that looks unlikely.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:34 AM

Don't be so fast. New information came out last night that has a lot of people thinking minds will be changed. Phone conversations with Trump during the event that people are talking about now, after yesterday's session ended. And one of the people revealing one of those calls is a GOP congressmember from my home state. Good for her! Trump knew Pence was in danger and did nothing. That treatment of the VP is what may rile enough GOP senators to decide to find him guilty.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald T
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:55 AM

"That treatment of the VP is what may rile enough GOP senators to decide to find him guilty."

You'd think so - but not with this pretty despicable bunch.

Aside from this lot this senate does appear to pretty shambolic and unwieldy. You decide to have a witness, you ask them to come in and do their witnessing, and the lawyers for both sides question them. Simple. They could have done that today.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 12:36 PM

Human rights are said to be or said to ought to be inalienable. The problem is they are also contradictory, eg the right to go about one's daily life without being murdered against the fight to freedom of expression which could be said to include incitement to take another person's life.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 05:07 PM

Purely from what I've heard today, I would love Joe Neguse to be your next President.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 09:03 PM

There's something going on with Trump and pressuring the Georgia Sec of State to find enough votes to overturn Biden's win.

The result today - acquittal - was expected. But McConnell reinforces his reputation as a worm by voting for acquittal, and THEN talking about Trump having done what he was accused of doing - incitement. But that's not prosecutable. I think Trump's dance card for the foreseeable future is full, though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 09:10 PM

You yanks had better focus. His talk is all about coming back.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 12:13 AM

There are other parts of the Constitution to consider. Robert Reich, Labor Secretary in the Clinton Administration and professor at Berkeley in California has been a frequent and vocal opponent of Trump.

Acquittal is not the end is his short video on the subject.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 11:52 AM

Acquittal may be the end for this incitement chapter, though, if Trump has granted himself a 'secret pardon', because I am sure any incitement case would be at the Federal level. OK, that might involve yet another trip round the houses to ascertain if he can pardon himself, but it is possible the Supreme Court would say he could.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:48 PM

I'd incline to think that the fact that Trump is clearly king of the Republican voters is going to turn out to be like a tombstone round the neck of the Republican party. His supporters are going to purge out the Trump critics, and the Democrats will show wall-to-wall clips from the trial video tapes of Jan 6, and the Republican Demagogue party will be slaughtered.

Remember, the 911 style commission of inquiry into Jan 6 is liable to be published with masses of extra evidence just about the ideal time for the 2022 midterms.

True enough, there are millions of people who are probably unshakeable in their devotion to Trump. But there are millions more who detest and despise him.

In electoral terms, the acquittal of Trump, however shameful it has to be for the USA, is a lottery win for the Democrats.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:00 PM

Well I'm not so sure about that. Sit around and do no more - he's free to campaign again. Charge him with all sorts of criminality in the normal courts - it goes on for ever, it galvanises his tens of millions of supporters and makes him a political martyr. As things stand, he holds all the cards...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 20 April 10:20 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.