Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Feb 21 - 06:10 PM

"Friends, Quanons and countrymen lend me your ears. We here at CPAC to welcome our lord and savior Donald Trump after his heroic effort to save Amerika. Furthmore we have canceled our invitation to Kike Pense and Mith McConnel."

CPAC has in fact made a golden idol of Trump for their rally. For some reason Donald the idol is dressed in shorts so it doesn't look so much like the golden calf.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 12:47 PM

Cy Vance, isn't he the lawyer who lost the election for Gore in the SCOTUS decision and set us on course for conspiracy politics with W in charge" ?
Democrat bias is defined by believing in actual reality.
Republican bias is a self serving alternate truth.

Manitas,
Catholics borrowed guilt from a Jewish mother.
Original sin is like everyone getting a free forgiven card.

A man walks into an Anglican Church for the first time since childhood.
He goes into a new confessional and to his surprise there is a shelf of whiskey, a shelf of the finest mariquana, and a shelf of miscellaneous items like condoms and cigars. "Forgive me pastor for I have sinned? By the way I like this new confessional thing."
"Get out of there you idiot, you're on my side".

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 11:48 AM

Manhattan DA Sifting Through Donald Trump’s Financial Records

After exhausting all his legal options, Donald Trump’s financial records are finally in the hands of New York District Attorney Cyrus Vance. CNN broke the news Thursday: “Prosecutors obtained the records on Monday, according to a source, just hours after the US Supreme Court denied Trump’s last-ditch effort to keep the records private.”

The records reportedly include millions of pages, so it is expected to take the office some time to go through the documents.

CNN points out, “Vance is investigating whether Trump and the Trump Organization engaged in tax fraud, insurance fraud and other schemes to defraud, including potentially providing false information to financial institutions or banks about the value of certain buildings and assets.”

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 10:37 AM

Confession is available in the Church of England, I don't know about the other Protestant denominations.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 08:08 AM

They should be. They can never get to heaven no matter how good they are. There are only Catholics in heaven. Our priests told us so. That's why I've decided I'm not going.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Jos
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 07:44 AM

If the hellish punishment for lying under oath only applies to Catholics, why are Protestant witnesses offered a Bible to hold while they are sworn in? I would have thought that without the availability of confession and absolution, they should be even more fearful of eternal damnation.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 06:09 AM

"I thought lying under oath meant that when you died you would go straight to hell."

Nah. When we were at our Catholic school we were always told that the best time to be run over by a bus was just after you'd left the confessional box (caveat: it had to have been a genuine confession, with the intent of not doing those naughty things ever again, impossible of course with those impure thoughts...). The mind often boggled as we were told this, as the road junction just outside the church was easily the busiest and most hazardous in town...

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 05:36 AM

Catholic guilt runs deep :^)

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Jos
Date: 25 Feb 21 - 01:39 AM

"Under oath means people can be prosecuted for lying about stuff."

I thought lying under oath meant that when you died you would go straight to hell.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 07:01 PM

Jim Jordan and Ron Johnson can tell whatever lie they want as they question people under oath. People willing to lie under oath are likely to defend their lie forever.

On disassters;
If it seems like we are all suffering more disaster events, we are.
Twenty years ago I discussd diasters so much I was accused of being a disaster troll. FEMA tells everyone to be prepared for 3 days on your own. 20 years ago only about 1 in 10 were preparing like Mormons to last for more than 3 days. Last year it was 20% and now it is nearly half (45%).

Our best survival tools can be found in government that many people are trying to destroy. I'm not saying hiding under the bed with 3 days of beans and water or building a bunker tunnel is the way to go.
But
in a pinch there is water that can be drained from hot water heatrs in an emergency. A supply of iodine or chlorine can protect water against Cholera. Cleverness and details is worth knowing in disasters. Its probably worth a thread of its own. FEMA is stretched beyond its limits right now.
Something is now in the wind that has a name but the next thing has no name.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 10:21 AM

I didn't see the very beginning of those hearings - are they under oath? There are conflicting stories and it will eventually come out. Under oath means people can be prosecuted for lying about stuff.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Feb 21 - 07:10 AM

The 4 hour mob war against the 3rd branch of government by Tramp is being investigated. Overall people involved are saying "I didn't get the email".
Its like a cartoon.
"Sargent at Arms Shultz, what did you know and when did you know it?"
"I know nothing"
The same goes for Homeland Security formed after 9-11 to encourage communication between intelligence agencies. Perhaps some one at HLS could have watched TV. Or the Pentagon, or the FBI or the CIA or NSA or DIA etc. So I suppose all the people who Tramp appointed to those agencies are innocent along with Tramp.

I am reminded of V for vendetta. Although the plot motivation is opposite and explosives were not detonated, a masked mob showed up as a result of one person. I saw some of the deranged mob wear V masks during the insurrection.

Perhaps if we ignore it, it will go away like Brexit.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 02:19 PM

SCOTUS will not prevent Tramp Tax Returns from going to the grand jury.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 02:06 PM

Another milestone in the Saga of Trump the Orange has been passed.

Donald Trump's tax returns can be turned over to New York prosecutors, US Supreme Court rules

Key points:

* The New York prosecutor involved in the case has been seeking Mr Trump's tax records since 2019
* The decision to release the tax records came from the US Supreme Court
* Mr Trump had appointed three of the Supreme Court's Justices during his time as US president

The news article also refers to some of the other proposed cases to be brought against Trump.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 10:38 AM

That excuse is gone with the wind - even my Republican neighbors (who are otherwise nice people and who shared their generator power with me) acknowledge that it is the whole system that is messed up, not just wind power. Everyone now knows that the gas and coal plants failed big time (gas is the largest of the providers) because the water lines to the plants and other things in the mechanisms weren't protected against extreme lows.

But Trump isn't responsible for that.

Trump is still rumbling about starting another party (the "Patriot" party) or buying a little news channel that is out there on cable networks. There may be a paywall, but this Jan. 10 Wall Street Journal article talks about it. Here is a bit of the story:

Allies of President Trump are pursuing an effort to acquire right-leaning news channel One America News Network, according to people familiar with the matter, in a bid to shake up a conservative media market that has been dominated by Fox News.

The investment firm Hicks Equity Partners is looking to acquire the channel and is pitching other wealthy GOP donors to arrange a bid of roughly $250 million for the channel’s parent company, the people said. The firm is owned by the family of Thomas Hicks Jr. , co-chairman of the Republican National Committee and a close friend of Donald Trump Jr.

The efforts come as Mr. Trump has periodically rebuked Fox News for being too critical—despite its opinion-show hosts’ general support of his administration—and has praised One America News Network. The channel’s opinion programming is known among its cable-news peers for its praise of Donald Trump and its advocacy for conservative causes.

“Over the last 25 years, we have been active media investors. Any interest in OANN is from a purely business standpoint,” said Rick Newman, a partner at Hicks Equity Partners who is leading the deal with family patriarch and Trump donor Thomas Hicks.

One America News Network President Charles Herring said in an email that the network has become “a reliable news source for a national audience,” adding that the company has seen interest from potential suitors from time to time. “With the 2020 political season in full swing, expressed interest is on the rise,” he wrote. “Yet our family didn’t build our operations to sell it.”

One America News is owned by San Diego-based Herring Networks Inc., a TV-programming company that was launched in 2004 by Mr. Herring’s father, Robert Herring Sr., founder of a circuit-board firm. He launched the news channel in 2013.

They've also had their eye on a channel called NewsMax.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 06:50 AM

Not Constitutionally but other laws disqualify convicted felons from many opportunities.
PS: Republicans MESSED with Texas.
They said "you don't mess with Texas" and therefore did not join the National power grid or federal regulations.
Republicans own the mess in Texas.

So far republicans are blaming windmills and 58% R blame the modern boogyman Antifa for attacking the Capitol.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Feb 21 - 05:15 AM

Interesting point: Is there a provision somewhere in US law that says someone cannot stand for public office (a) if they are bankrupt, or (b) if they have been convicted of a crime that carries a sentence of x years or more?

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 10:52 AM

Gone are the Hobbits, Tasmanians and long lost tribes
Gone are Neanderthals except those who tried to hide.
The murder goes on with bullets and economics.
The killing's not for food or other solutions
Its not always for land, water or evolution.

Some murder over pigment and facial features
The killing goes on by men unlike creatures.
It starts with a lie that grows into fear
The cult to kill is proud and is here
They take an oath and drink a beer.

It may be the home of the brave
but I see those who live in fear.
They are the ones who need lots of guns
To defend and extend the slavery of
Tramp.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 21 - 09:56 AM

I find it appropo that Tramp faces charges of breaking the Klu Klux Klan law of the 1889 Reconstruction era.

The SDNY AG office hired a very special lawyer who forced the judicial system to legally define Racketeering when applied to organized crime. In order to bring charges against Tramp the only stumbling block now is for the supreme court to release Tramp's financial information. They have not acted for many months.

imo I think the chief justice of the SC is afraid of the mob
Pun intended.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 10:51 AM

I predicted tht he would not be found guilty

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:16 PM

Polls indicate something like 80% of Republican voters still back Trump. Even if that just means the other 20% stay at home or vote for Independant candidates, let alone switching to the Democrate, that sounds like a death sentence for the Trump Party.

He's got all the cards for controlling and purging the Republican Party, probably true enough. He's the Kiss of Death.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:10 PM

If Trump wrote himself a secret pardon that will go to the supreme court.

McConnell took monstrous advantage of his position as the majority leader in the senate to withhold hearings for Obama's supreme court nominee. He stopped legislating and followed his own course of revenge ever since his man Bork was borked.

I'm hoping some of those clever congressional and senatorial folks will try the next Constitutional move, as suggested by Robert Reich. and that Georgia and New York step up to charge him with crimes.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:27 PM

Steve:
Trump holds cards that a lot of Republicans care about. He does not have nearly that much traction with the rest of the country.

The real nightmare would be if there was a canny Democrat who was able to be a more effective Trump.

It's easy to spot the demagogue when he's the other guy. The danger is when you think the demagogue is YOUR guy.

As Thomas Jefferson said: "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just."

I am atremble just a bit. Not over Trmp, but the indisputable fact of his success due to my fellow Americans.

I agree with Jeri that Mcconnell is a worm. Except that many worms are humble, useful creatures. Earthworms, generally. There are plenty of other worms that burrow into animals and go to work devouring them from the inside. That is Mitch Mcconnell for you. Trmp was part of Mcconnell chickens coming home to roost. Meaning no respect for the noblest of the chickens however.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:00 PM

Well I'm not so sure about that. Sit around and do no more - he's free to campaign again. Charge him with all sorts of criminality in the normal courts - it goes on for ever, it galvanises his tens of millions of supporters and makes him a political martyr. As things stand, he holds all the cards...

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:48 PM

I'd incline to think that the fact that Trump is clearly king of the Republican voters is going to turn out to be like a tombstone round the neck of the Republican party. His supporters are going to purge out the Trump critics, and the Democrats will show wall-to-wall clips from the trial video tapes of Jan 6, and the Republican Demagogue party will be slaughtered.

Remember, the 911 style commission of inquiry into Jan 6 is liable to be published with masses of extra evidence just about the ideal time for the 2022 midterms.

True enough, there are millions of people who are probably unshakeable in their devotion to Trump. But there are millions more who detest and despise him.

In electoral terms, the acquittal of Trump, however shameful it has to be for the USA, is a lottery win for the Democrats.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 11:52 AM

Acquittal may be the end for this incitement chapter, though, if Trump has granted himself a 'secret pardon', because I am sure any incitement case would be at the Federal level. OK, that might involve yet another trip round the houses to ascertain if he can pardon himself, but it is possible the Supreme Court would say he could.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 12:13 AM

There are other parts of the Constitution to consider. Robert Reich, Labor Secretary in the Clinton Administration and professor at Berkeley in California has been a frequent and vocal opponent of Trump.

Acquittal is not the end is his short video on the subject.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 09:10 PM

You yanks had better focus. His talk is all about coming back.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 09:03 PM

There's something going on with Trump and pressuring the Georgia Sec of State to find enough votes to overturn Biden's win.

The result today - acquittal - was expected. But McConnell reinforces his reputation as a worm by voting for acquittal, and THEN talking about Trump having done what he was accused of doing - incitement. But that's not prosecutable. I think Trump's dance card for the foreseeable future is full, though.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 05:07 PM

Purely from what I've heard today, I would love Joe Neguse to be your next President.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 12:36 PM

Human rights are said to be or said to ought to be inalienable. The problem is they are also contradictory, eg the right to go about one's daily life without being murdered against the fight to freedom of expression which could be said to include incitement to take another person's life.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald T
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:55 AM

"That treatment of the VP is what may rile enough GOP senators to decide to find him guilty."

You'd think so - but not with this pretty despicable bunch.

Aside from this lot this senate does appear to pretty shambolic and unwieldy. You decide to have a witness, you ask them to come in and do their witnessing, and the lawyers for both sides question them. Simple. They could have done that today.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:34 AM

Don't be so fast. New information came out last night that has a lot of people thinking minds will be changed. Phone conversations with Trump during the event that people are talking about now, after yesterday's session ended. And one of the people revealing one of those calls is a GOP congressmember from my home state. Good for her! Trump knew Pence was in danger and did nothing. That treatment of the VP is what may rile enough GOP senators to decide to find him guilty.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:31 AM

Well that should help to inform your next move. This move can do little except for banning him from a future presidency, and even that looks unlikely.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 11:14 AM

The crisis is the example he set by inciting a coup. As the pundits say, if he isn't found guilty, if he gets away with it, that riot will be considered a training session for future presidents.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 10:33 AM

The lawmakers are not the nuts and bolts of the justice system. Due process in the criminal justice system doesn't apply to what's happening here. Whether this attempt in Congress fails or not, Trump could be charged with criminal offences and brought to the normal courts. I don't see much of a constitutional crisis. I can see a lot of wrangling over what to do next. Good luck with that, yanks.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 10:29 AM

“Pooh”, said Piglet, “If they don’t find him guilty, does that mean he’s innocent?”

“No Piglet”, said Pooh, “It means they’re all guilty.”.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 10:11 AM

You are right, SPB, but I don't see anything smooth path out out this. We may well get the result that the majority of Senators agree Trump did incite the riot, but that the result still falls short of the 67. How you go forward when most lawmakers agree a major crime has taken place but they are powerless to do anything is not clear.

The constitution would be effectively broken: indictment does not work. Invoking the 14th amendment is a problem as well -in the longer term I can see it becoming a tool for any party to disqualify anyone they do not agree with if it is used.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 08:33 AM

Listening to the news today the basis of the Republicans defence if the turnip is acquitted by the Senate, then that legitimises hate speech and incitement to violence, and that worries me that white supremacists will see this as legitimising opening their vile mouths.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Feb 21 - 05:00 AM

Isn't the impeachment trial a bit like a criminal trial where half the jury are members of the accused's family?

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Feb 21 - 04:52 AM

What benefits do ex-presidents normally get?
I wonder how the insurrection would have gone if Trump had actually gone down and led the lads in.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 09:10 PM

New York State also has him in their sights.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Feb 21 - 06:55 PM

Apparently they *are* after him for voter fraud, not for pretending to live in Fla but for what he tried in Georgia.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Helen
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 04:15 PM

Yes, robomatic, for a serial offender! I think it will become very complicated to follow all the stories.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 21 - 03:16 PM

I thought the idea of having a separate thread for what I'd call: "Trump legal fallout" was a good one.
Comes now that Georgia prosecutors open criminal investigation of trump phone call.
And Trump filed against Georgia's officials before the end of 2020.

Someone should come up with a matrix as these things develop:

Federal
State
Local

by filing time; location; subject matter.

Maybe one of those walls full of dry-erase boards with photos and yarn linkages stretched out all serial-killer like!

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 05:39 PM

The facial Identificaton software the FBI uses is called Clear View.
-not to be confused with clearview cable, a monopolized right wing local news servive which is part of the Sinclair Group.-

The ID software is excellent in identifying white faces but drops to half as effective when deaing with Blacks. It is working quite well with the capitol terrorists.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 11:06 AM

Evidence:
"All hell is going to break loose tommorrow. Just understand this. All hell is going to break loose tommorrow. It's gonna be moving. Its gonna be quick." Jan 5 Steve Bannon pod cast.

"This is not a day for fantasy, this is a day for maniacalfocus. Focus, Focus Focus. We're coming in right over the target, okay? Exactly--this is the point of ATTACK w've always wanted."
Jan. 6 Steve Bannon Podcast.

source: "WAR ROOM" Podcast

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:41 AM

No question of bending the rules here, Steve. The matter of determining whether an impeachment process can be concluded after the person who has been impeached has left office is a purely constitutional matter, which should have nothing to do with the Senate. It's quite distinct from the task of whether the impeachment should be conformed or not, which is purely a matter for the Senate, and has nothing to do with the Supreme Court. And, as you say, no punishment is involved. That is what criminal courts are for.

Interestingly, so far as I am aware, there is no mechanism for dealing with the problem if the Supreme Court does act improperly or even unconstitutionally. (I think if it declined to rule on the constitutionality of impeaching a dead parrot, so to speak, I think it would be failing in its duty.)

But for the Senate to decide a constitutional matter like this strikes me as a clear breach of the principle of the separation of powers.

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 10:33 AM

American justice procedures have got far too complicated
since the good old tar, feather, and rope, days of the wild west..

.. but at least one tradition still survives, corrupt politician trump has been run out of town...

Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 09:49 AM

But you can't bend the rules, Kevin. As I said, the sentiments behind the impeachment are complex, but the process itself has to be purely political. The constitutional position is that impeachment is there to serve the country's best interests (to remove a bad person from office, and, optionally, to bar them from future office), not to punish a miscreant. Maybe that's what we both mean, I dunno. And I wouldn't have though that the Supreme Court would be in at the beginning of a future criminal trial. At the end maybe, once a verdict has been reached and after a protracted period of wrangling...