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Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump

Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jan 21 - 08:32 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 07:20 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 07:04 AM
Donuel 27 Jan 21 - 06:50 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 06:40 AM
McGrath of Harlow 27 Jan 21 - 06:02 AM
Steve Shaw 27 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM
robomatic 26 Jan 21 - 09:56 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 09:26 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 09:00 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 08:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 26 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM
Stilly River Sage 26 Jan 21 - 06:45 PM
robomatic 26 Jan 21 - 06:07 PM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 04:50 PM
Donuel 26 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM
Donuel 26 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 06:31 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM
Steve Shaw 26 Jan 21 - 05:07 AM
DMcG 26 Jan 21 - 04:10 AM
Donuel 26 Jan 21 - 12:46 AM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jan 21 - 10:51 PM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jan 21 - 10:48 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM
Steve Shaw 25 Jan 21 - 07:32 PM
Donuel 25 Jan 21 - 06:59 PM
Donuel 25 Jan 21 - 06:14 AM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jan 21 - 06:01 AM
punkfolkrocker 24 Jan 21 - 11:24 AM
Stilly River Sage 24 Jan 21 - 11:19 AM
Mr Red 24 Jan 21 - 05:08 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jan 21 - 06:23 PM
Donuel 23 Jan 21 - 04:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Jan 21 - 04:25 PM
Donuel 23 Jan 21 - 04:17 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Jan 21 - 03:07 PM
Helen 23 Jan 21 - 02:46 PM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jan 21 - 02:30 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 Jan 21 - 12:22 PM
DMcG 23 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jan 21 - 11:31 AM
Stilly River Sage 23 Jan 21 - 11:30 AM
Mr Red 23 Jan 21 - 10:27 AM
Stilly River Sage 22 Jan 21 - 10:29 AM
Mrrzy 22 Jan 21 - 07:49 AM
Donuel 22 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM
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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 08:40 AM

On the lighter side I would like to add one more preposterous punishment for Trump AKA "Killem With Kindness";
At the next Acadamy Awards Ceremony, Award an Honorary Oscar to Donald J Trump for the most convincing fake Reality Show on Earth.
THEN, beginning with Steven Spielburg, beat Donald J Trump to death with his own Oscar. Trump's famous last words will be "Et tu Sylvester Stallone, Stormy danials, lady ga,,, ug ow,___ ?".


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 08:32 AM

Those who back Trump are going to be outraged whatever happens. I don't think there is much profit in trying to pacify them.

Those kind of considerations might affect how the Attorney General determines whether to prosecute, but I can't see tgem prefenting other court challenges for Trump arising from Jan 6th.

So far as the questiin of constitutionality is concerned I'd have thought the only body with any authority to decide is not the Senate but the Supreme Court. The Senate doesn't have any authority to determine that kind of thing, only its own procedures within the liits of what the Constitution provides. . know the court shies away from any involvement with the matter of impeachment, as being a purely political matter, but a question of constitutionality should never be seen as a purely political matter.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:27 AM

Its a song not a philosophy.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:20 AM

"I'm giving up on you" is what you said 24 hours ago (to the minute) and I welcomed it. More fake news, unfortunately. A little like the "twenty times" in that post.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

Its important to remember that Steve has a grip on one chestnut and has repeated it twenty times. Its sumpthin a grandpa would do.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 07:04 AM

As I said, a cool head is needed.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:50 AM

Leader of the terrorist organization The American Taliban (Trumpists) Donal J Trump has inspired the mob to kill, plunder and deficate in the Capitol and his Senators wants us to turn the page, move on and not be so silly and vindictive.

Well I saw the thing comin' from the white house
It had the one long horn, and two big mouths
I commenced to shakin' and I said "Ooh-eee"
It looks like a purple people eater to me
It was a one-eyed, two mouthed, lieing' purple people eater
(One-eyed, two mouthed, lyin' purple people eater)
A one-eyed, two mouthed, lyin' purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me (two mouths?)
Well he came down to earth and lived in a golf course
I said Mr. Purple People Eater, don't eat me
I heard him say in a voice so gruff
"I wouldn't eat you 'cause you're for Trump"
It was a one-eyed, two-mouthed, lieing purple people eater
One-eyed, two-mouthed' lieing purple people eater
One-eyed, two mouthed, lieing purple people eater
Sure looks strange to me (two mouths?)
Outta one side yelling hang Mike Pense
Outta th'other kill Pelosi and Chuck
FUCK
It was a one-eyed, two mouthed, lieing' purple...


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:40 AM

It's important to remember that the impeachment process, through to trial, has nothing to do with the US justice system. The process itself is purely political (though the sentiments driving it, such as outrage, anger and a sense of injustice, and that the man would be a danger if he ever got into office again) are clearly not, for many of his opponents. That's why a cool head is needed. Prematurely branding him outloud a criminal is not keeping a cool head. Though in theory an acquittal by the Senate (almost inevitable) wouldn't affect process in a later criminal trial, as you said yesterday, I predict that millions of his supporters would be outraged to see things move on from an acquittal here to a criminal court case, and even more outraged to see him thrown in jail. The story so far is that, yes, he has been impeached, but he has not been tried by the Senate. I think I the wisest move would be to stop right here. He will not be found guilty - for a second time in a year - and that will translate into egg on a lot of Democrat faces if Trump has anything to do with it. Here's a man who has manoeuvred himself into a populist position in which he has shown that he can get away with almost anything. Treat him like an idiot at your peril.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 06:02 AM

Surely there is a basic flaw in the argument that Trump cannot be impeached because he is no longer in office.

He has already been impeached a few days ago, while he was still president. What the Senate is doing is not to impeach him, but to determine whether that should take effect, and what that effect should be. That is a different thing.

Of course arguments about what is right or wrong, or what happened, are completely irrelevant. Nor does anyone expect them to feel bound by the solemn oath they have taken - "“I solemnly swear (or affirm) that in all things appertaining to the trial of ____, now pending, I will do impartial justice according to the Constitution and laws, so help me God.” Those voting to acquit will be guided by politics, and personal advantage. "Impartial justice" has nothing to do with it.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Jan 21 - 04:45 AM

Good to hear that pointed out. We know that he an extremely bad man who has done a lot of harm. But I've always thought that it's a severe mistake to also regard him as an idiot, and I've said that several times here. He isn't, and maybe that should be at least part of the considerations as to how we should now treat him. He is fully capable of continuing to cause mayhem, and what he needs most of all is to stay in the public eye for as long as he can.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 09:56 PM

Trmp has had a 'gift' for want of a better word, of exploring the edges, boundries, and corners of not just proper behavior but legal behavior including precedent.

Well before his political career he was in money difficulties; he supposedly sued Deutsche Bank for its part in the financial crisis which made it (supposedly) impossible for him to pay back.....Deutsche Bank. This is cutting edge legal maneuvering. From the guy who cut his legal teeth at the side of Roy Cohn.

For a guy who spent years in New York real estate finagling the system, and he actually borrowed money from one part of Deutsche Bank to pay back the other loans he couldn't otherwise pay*, finagling Washington politics is more fun with lower risks.

I can see Donald telling Rudy Giuliani: "You're no Roy Cohn!"

*Chaos & Corruption- Trump's Secrets at Deutsche Bank


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 09:26 PM

Further to that, the reason given by the Republicans is that, as one Senator commented, "My vote today to dismiss the article of impeachment is based on the fact that impeachment was designed to remove an officeholder from public office," Senator Shelley Moore Capito of West Virginia said in a statement released after the vote. "The Constitution does not give Congress the power to impeach a private citizen."

If that's the widely-held view among the 45, with only five demurring (way short of seventeen, even if those five were all going to vote with the Democratic Party), the impeachment is now dead in the water. I wonder whether the Democratic Party Senators might consider that it's best to accept that, butt out and save face. After all, that could be better than being trashed in a Senate trial that many would now see as being pointlessly symbolic only, and a distraction from the rebuilding job that Joe Biden is trying to do. That seems quite important to me, and I didn't read it on the back of a fag packet...


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 09:00 PM

So now 45 Republican Senators have tried to shoot down the impeachment trial. So much for convicting him in the Senate. I hope you've got enough wise people to decide the next step, hopefully a decision uninformed by some of the anger we've seen here. You need to unite your country, remember?


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 08:07 PM

Maggie, of course we saw the whole thing on telly. Perhaps you think we're still in the Dark Ages, getting snippets fed to us in yesterday's papers. We have a choice of rolling 24-hour news channels and we see exactly what you see. I can find out about the ins and outs of your constitution just as easily as you can and it has been a matter of some interest to me. To assume that Brits automatically cannot comprehend what we see happening on the telly (which is only what you see too - remind me how far from Washington you live...) is, well... And there's ever such a slight but detectable undercurrent in your post that we Brits aren't quite as entitled to speak as freely about this as you are. And your constant insistence that Trump is a criminal is very puzzling to me. If you said that about anyone in this country charged with a serious crime before he'd even been tried, you would seriously jeopardise his being brought to trial at all. It is an untenable position. What he is accused of is a heinous crime. The Senate cannot bring about a CRIMINAL conviction (which you know already) and he cannot be sanctioned for a crime until he is found guilty in a ordinary court. For chrissake, the whole of our democracy is predicated on the rule of law. No short cuts, no what more do you need, no kangaroo courts, no lynchings. We are all very angry with Trump (though you have suffered more, obviously); he is not a uniquely-American problem. Why, he's given succour not only to the bloody idiot, a Trump-lite if ever there was one, who runs this country and who has arguably done us much more damage than Trump has done to the US, but also to the menace in the Kremlin. Everybody's angry. He's turned the world upside down. But we have to be patient. You are not showing that right now, which is going to be counterproductive, and if you think that we Brits "don't get it" as much as you Americans, then consider the unadorned input of at least one of your fellow countrymen in this and related threads...


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 07:28 PM

I'm afraid that "I saw it on the telly" doesn't cut it. Camera angles, editing, etc....

In this case I think it does potentially cut it, Steve. The accusation is that he stirred up and sought to enrage the crowd and sent it up to the Capital, falsely promising to accompany it.. The television record of his speech on January 6th is direct evidence of what he did on that day. Not edited extracts, the entire speech.

Clearly the legal status of the Senate hearing isn't that of a criminal court, and the outcome does not allow for anything equivalent to the penalties available in a criminal court - though that is purely contingent. It could easily have been possible and perfectly legal for such penalties to be within the power of the Senate. However I think it is correct to use the term "trial", without implying that the word has precisely the same meaning as in the case of a conventional criminal trial.

However the offence of insurrection, including directly inciting insurrection is very definitely a criminal act, subject to further trial in a criminal court, which could potentially impose very severe penalties (I would suspect that theoretically insurrection couldx in the US be subject to capital punishment.) I would doubt if the decision of the Senate in this matter either way would be seen in such a court as relevant to its finding.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 06:45 PM

Steve, I do find it annoying that you, in the UK, continue to pontificate about the US House and Senate and ex-president when you weren't sitting here watching the entire thing unfold on television and haven't been reading the new accounts of the atrocities committed as they come forward every day. You're reading it summarized later in newspapers by pundits.

The facts are that Trump is a criminal. And if he wrote a private pardon to reveal later in hopes of avoiding being found guilty, that proves it (and the Supreme Court will eventually have to sort it out). And I'm willing to bet he did just such a thing to pull out later if he thinks he can benefit from it. He's a criminal whose attorneys have gotten him off so far, by running out the clock. You can use "con artist" or "Grifter" or "alleged criminal" if you want to, to stay safe as far as libel laws are concerned, but for millions of Americans, Trump is out and out a criminal, and your lectures about the topic aren't changing minds.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 06:07 PM

Dontrumpuel:

Once again you are filling the threadlines with surmise and supposition and warning us in advance we are supposed to tolerate it because you are allowed tospeak in abbreviated and clever ways not found in essays or newspaper descriptions.

Your previous allustion to Roman history was a complete mishmash of Roman practice and history. Robert Byrd would be aghast. You continue to shadow the character of the Former Occupant in that you can say anything absolutely anything with no sense of whether it is true or false. There is a technical term for this, often used on the now former President. It is based on the fact that he didn't respect the truth enough to even reliably lie. You seem to be too clever to open a book or click on Wikipedia.

The problem with this is that when you get easy facts wrong it means you can get more extended facts wrong and no one can trust that you will do the work to get anything right. And then when you try to use logic on these 'alternative facts' you not only get wrong conclusions on the premise of GIGO, but you can't be relied on to do the logic.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 04:50 PM

Do calm down.

Not once have I asserted that no witnesses will be called. I'm saying that witnesses do not HAVE to be called. That, among other aspects, distinguishes a Senate trial from a trial in an ordinary court. In order for the proceedings to be expedited in short order, I'm suggesting (never guessing) that witnesses will likely not be called. No more than that.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 07:16 AM

Senator Leahy will preside over the trial WHICH WILL HAVE WITNESS'"
(please disregard the guesser and chief)
Supream court Chief Justice Roberts will not preside over the trial with his reasons being his own. We are left to speculate fear could be part of the equation.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 07:09 AM

Keep yer paws off my fruits pal. In so many ways you are like the republicans over here Steve.
Republicans used to brag they were staunch and firm. Then they got stauncher and evolved into lonely empty conspiracy theorists who find a home with like minded conspiracists. Now they seek retribution against truth tellers. They are on the edge of a ledge screaming "Believe the lie or die".
To continue your campaign to criticise critical thinkers by being critical of individuals who think for themslves makes you a dead ender. You want things like not being alone or being loved that are not my priorities here, so do things that get what you want. Hate campaigns against others won't get you there. You could stick to recipes or change. Seeing that you have not changed in 20 years and your favorite subject is yourself say something, I'm giving up on you. Instead of a friend in discussion you are now just a resulting example of your own making.
Likewise;
Rudy Gulliani is now facing a 1.3 Billion dollar lawsuit for lieing about the Dominion voting machine corporation.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 06:31 AM

"I am allowed tospeak in abbreviated and clever ways not found in essays or newspaper descriptions."

As indeed are we all. But by our fruits shall others know us, eh?


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 05:55 AM

Incidentally again, there is no jury and there will likely be no called witnesses. It is not true to say that he misrepresented nothing. At the very least, the suggestion that Senators will form some kind of "jury" is tendentiously wide of the mark, and is guilty of that loose terminology I mentioned. Like most decent people, I should like to see Trump rot in jail. But I'm not going to wrap up that aspiration in the sort of wishful thinking that would be in danger of trumping your justice system. As Judge Webster Thayer might have said about Sacco and Vanzetti, they're reds and what more do you need...


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 05:07 AM

"This is the trial of a criminal."

This little sentence completely undermines your case. If a UK newspaper printed that about a public figure without a criminal record yet to be brought to court it would compromise the process to such an extent that the accused person would quite rightly be able to claim that a fair trial was now impossible. In addition, as Trump can't be punished (by fine or imprisonment) even if convicted by the Senate, the process can't be regarded as in any way equivalent to due process in federal law. You are making the mistake of equating terms used in federal law with what may happen in the Senate: there will be no vetted or sworn-in jury; you are using terms such as "crime" and "convicted" in a loose, generic sense when, in law, you would rightly be pulled up for so doing (it's fine to say "it would be a crime to overcook this beautiful piece of fish" because we'd all know what you meant, whereas in Trump's case you are tendentiously prejudging the issue before he's been tried). As for witnesses, the Senate doesn't even have to call any (they didn't last time), and likely won't do so, as the last thing the Democratic Party wants is for Biden to have to endure the distraction of a protracted process. If you did that in federal law you would be accused of setting up a kangaroo court; as Trump can't be punished by a Senate trial, the process can't be regarded as being in any way equivalent. Even the term "trial" here is not equivalent to what happens in due legal process, much as you would like it to be. He can be tried in the ordinary courts later. One step at a time. It's all in your constitution.

One more point about witnesses and victims. Trump's alleged crime is not that he stormed the Senate. He is accused of whipping up a mob in a speech. How many Senators were in that crowd? I'm afraid that "I saw it on the telly" doesn't cut it. Camera angles, editing, etc... Senators who were attacked physically, or intimidated by a mob, are victims of a different crime yet to to be called up. You can perhaps see how this might go if loose interpretations and loose terminology are used. He will have a legal team who'll jump all over you.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 04:10 AM

The UK papers are saying that the chances of Trump being found guilty are very low, because (they imply) Republican Senators are more concerned about losing the support of Trump enthusiasts come their next election than whether Trump actually committed an offence.

Is this the US view as well?


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 21 - 12:46 AM

In my attempt to inject wit I am allowed tospeak in abbreviated and clever ways not found in essays or newspaper descriptions Steve.
I shamelessly write in 'American' about US matters I would not expect to be exported with absolute clarity. Writing is for my own amazement much like when I practice music. Or its like natural hair color, you don't have to like it but its polite to keep it to yourself - unless its an unnatural ORANGE Cheeto or canary YELLOW.

The house managers marched into the Senate Chamber two by two tonight which is a rare event. They presented the article of Trummp's Impeachment for sedition that triggers a trial TBA by the Senate.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 10:51 PM

Before correcting Steve, I actually came here to comment on the dovetail of the events - the call to the Secretary of State in Georgia is going to serve as an example of how unwilling Trump was to accept the legal results of the election, and how he then turned his supporters loose on the Capitol because of it. He may not be charged with those other crimes, but they all illustrate the one he is charged with.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 10:48 PM

You're wrong, Steve. Donuel is not misrepresenting anything. The senate and the house were in session, they had to be moved out. They were witnesses, and they were far closer to extreme danger than we at first realized. And Senator Byrd would be heartbroken, astonished, appalled, you can add a lot more adjectives.

This is the trial of a criminal. That's why the impeachment. He can be charged with further crimes, and if he thought writing a secret pardon was his way out, a charge and a trial are the way to test it. A pardon assumes there was a crime committed.

He can be found guilty of the act he is charged, he can be prohibited from running for office and he can be stripped of the benefits normally given to a former president. If further charges are brought by the Justice Department, he can be tried in a regular court of law.

There have been many accounts of what happened, and as people are interviewed or debriefed the events of January 6 are all the more clear. The story around Ashli Babbitt, the woman shot trying to invade the Senate lobby gives a view of just how close House and Senate members came to becoming victims. Men were arrested who wanted to assassinate Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence. Trump instigated this. The House and Senate were and still are crime scenes.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 07:34 PM

By no means all of them


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 07:32 PM

You are misrepresenting the whole thing. It is not a criminal trial. There are no jurors. Senators who were "witnesses" (by no means not all of them) are not subject to courtroom-style cross-examination. There is no due process in the sense of the federal justice system. There is no sanction available save the loss of his already-tattered reputation and, possibly, the banning from future office. What they are deliberating is not the accusation of a crime. The vast majority of Senators are "victims" in a peripheral, tangential sense only, in that their institution was attacked, not them personally. He cannot be found guilty of any crime. You went on about the rewriting of history in the post before that one. Perhaps you should reflect that you are perhaps indulging in the same thing.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 06:59 PM

I have never heard of a trial in which the jurors were also the witness' and victims of the crime they are to deliberate.
WELL ALL THE SENATORS ARE.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 06:14 AM

In Rome the Ceasar was the leader but the Senate was the power by Constitution and law. To overthrow the Senate was unthinkable until Julius declared himself a god and ruled over the Senate. However the true power wasn't Ceasar or the Senate but rather it was the mob. Rome is the mob not Centurians.
Senator Byrd and the Roman Republic:
The passing of Senator Robert C. Byrd from the American political scene also marks the departure of a great American character. This fiddle-playing high school graduate who earned a law degree at night (in 1963) and a college degree via correspondence courses (in 1994) regularly quoted the Bible, the classics, and large swaths of memorized poetry on the floor of the Senate was also a historian of the institution he loved most: The United States Senate.

Curiously, his reverence for the Senate and fierce defense of its constitutional role resulted in a most remarkable Government book on ancient Rome: The Senate of the Roman Republic: Addresses on the History of Roman Constitutionalism.
He would have much to say about the mob storming the Senate with murderous intentions based on the orders of a Ceasar.

The rewriting of history is already underway by Republicans.
The storming of the capitol is called by some "the people speak up".


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 21 - 06:01 AM

Perhaps the most effective thing wouldn't be court trials, but a thoroughgoing commission of inquiry into the Trump conspiracy to steal the election, including an examination of the basis for the claimed electoral frauds.

The problem would be identifying people to run it who could be trusted across the gulf. Clearly that wouldn't be possible as regards the die-hard Trumpists. But there must be some whose sanity could recover. Perhaps even a fair proportion, in time.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 11:24 AM

Islands are useful for exile, or Alamo style last stands...


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 11:19 AM

The Rosen case is apparently going to dove-tail into the impeachment trial, as part of the evidence against him.

The Trumps apparently bought the estate that is directly north of the Mar A Lago club, plus family have bought a couple of other houses right there. There's also a posh island just north of Miami Beach where a few dozen houses have waterfronts and ring a golf course. That's where Ivanka and her slum-lord husband are settling.

Google Maps gives a look at these places. One wonders if they'll try to blank out these parts of the map to hide from public view.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jan 21 - 05:08 AM

Apparently Mr Trump spent his first day at home hard at work. Trying to find lawyers that would take his case(s). And he was at Palm Beach, not Mar-a-Largo where he is not allowed to reside.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 06:23 PM

The Senate trial is in grave danger of not convicting him, let alone preventing him from standing again. I want to be wrong about that. If I'm right, there are still options. The worst would be to turn him into a martyr by giving him a protracted show trial. Just consider that there is no charge you could bring that wouldn't be riddled with ifs and buts for his lawyers to jump on. Or you could try to ignore him, sideline him, generally forget him as he wallows in his Florida retreat. From what I'm reading here (always acknowledging that we are a microcosm here on Mudcat), a lot of Americans want retribution, thoroughly understandable. I think that you should maybe resist that impulse. I don't live in America and I don't know American gut sentiment. Just saying what I think. Lastly, the Republican party should work their arses off to find a really good contender for 2024. Just make sure that he or she is a good democrat (small d there) first.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:52 PM

Republicans that have even a hint of democracy sound like...
Waaaah but impeechy weechying Trump will divide the country whah


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:25 PM

But I imagine that the evidence will be completely irrelevant when it comes to determinghow the senators vote.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 04:17 PM

Stilly congratulations on being first to report the coup against Rosen.
Events about new statehood or succession are impossible to foresee but some things can be expected. For example if statehood is granted to DC at long last, Republicans would see 2 more Democratic senators and get desperate. Texas could come into play and fracture into as many as 5 states. Also thanks for clearing up so much misinformation overall.
So many discussions rise to the level of a sophmore BS session at midnight but sometimes new ideas emerge to a world class level.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 03:07 PM

.. but what can others in his family be charged with
to nip the trump presidential dynasty in the bud.?


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:46 PM

And, this impeachment has the most important part - I hope - which is to prevent him from running for president again.

His lawyers, if he can find any to defend his impeachment and civil suits, will be rubbing their hands with glee in anticipation of all those lovely fees they will be earning, especially if the lawsuits drag on and on. The only winners are the lawyers, in financial terms.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 02:30 PM

Texas is less likely to be interested in seceding than North Carolina or Alabama. It's too large, too many regions and views of the world.

The last impeachment had two charges; this has one, and it's a doozy, because we all saw it with our own eyes on television. I don't think they need to add anything else to make it stick.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 12:22 PM

Stilly - but the trump worshipping trailer dwelling heavily armed militia leader interviewed by BBC;
so determined for Texas to secede from America,
would be happiest with trump as ruler of an independent Texas.

Despite trump being a New Yorker...


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:43 AM

This is also an impeachable offense

Again, I do not know enough about the American system. Could the Senate include this in the current impeachment hearing, or are they restricted to the motion passed up from the House? If the latter, I don't see the House wanting to spend the time to impeach for a third time given their other workload.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:31 AM

Oh, and Donald is from Queens, New York, NOT from Texas.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 11:30 AM

Here is a major piece of the prosecution's case if Trump is tried for trying to overthrow Georgia's election. This is also an impeachable offense, but the one that got him impeached was fomenting anger and causing the assault on the Capitol.

And then there are his civil cases. His family is probably busy right now burying as much of the family money as possible to protect it from seizure by banks and to avoid paying attorney's fees.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jan 21 - 10:27 AM

Why don't we construct a Trump song much like a Roman "curse":

I once worked on an archaeological dig where they found 50 lead "curses" down the well of a Roman Temple (to Cernunnos), thus doubling the total UK find at the time. I did ask and got a general answer along the lines they would be inscribed with: "The person who stole my chicken, may his hens never lay, may his cow run dry, may his wheat fester in the ear, may his.........."
It reminded me of the Irish song - Nell Flaherty's Drake - a tour de force of curses.

AND ....... Pfr .............

 'King donald the first of Texas... - apostrophes pleas, Pfr, apostrophes! a typo, but I let it stand


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 10:29 AM

From the New York Times, there are a lot more bad people out in circulation now that Trump has granted them clemency. For Prosecutors, Trump’s Clemency Decisions Were a ‘Kick in the Teeth’

He's clearly identifying with part of his "base" when he sees people just like him, but they got caught.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:49 AM

I would like to see him reduced from juggernaut...

...to just naught.


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Subject: RE: Federal, State & local prosecution of Donald Trump
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 21 - 07:25 AM

The prosecution of Grump is different than the prosecution of enablers be they individuals or corporations.

Fox News just yesterday broadcast that " Democrats intend to exterminate all Republicans "   the remaining sponsors like Gold, pilows and insurance are not enough to feed the beast but Rupurt made a fortune with sensationalism to begin. It could be a sign of his end.


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