Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: Big Tim
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 03:37 PM

Fair point Jim, as 'The Foggy Dew' opens with 'As down the glen (one Easter morn'). ('As down the glen came Sarsfields's men' -Jackets Green. The inspiration for 'McAlpine's Fusiliers' is probably a fusion of various influences. But where did 'fusiliers' come from?

I wonder where Hugh MacDonald got the song as his version in 'The Rebels Ceilidh Song Book' is pretty much word what is now regarded as the 'standard' version. btw, Father O'Neill wrote his song in 1919.

Thread drift...

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 04:37 PM

Big Tim, Hugh had a wide knowledge of Irish songs and Scottish Gaelic songs. He was/is a staunch Socialist, Catholic and Scottish Republican. The first Rebel Ceilidh Song Book was printed in 1951 with Foggy Dew collected from Hugh's version who knew about the Easter Rising and Father P O'Neill's contribution. The vision of McAlpine's 'gang' as soldiers is, I think , explained in Dominic's comparison with/use of the two other songs mentioned. I think 'fusiliers' is a quaint term tying up modern gangers with soldiers. Dominic could have got the word from anywhere but you may be correct when you say Dublin Fusiliers.

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: Big Tim
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:36 AM

Re the 'vision' Jim, good insight: makes me appreciate the the song much more; as imaginative literature

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: GUEST,JonJos
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:55 AM

Jim I'm Impressed! Even Father Ted Himself, could not have gone away and came back with better answers than those.- If you go back in time far enough, there may be a link between Kelly From Killane and Wimpeys.
Does any one know what happened to Darky MClafferty? He might have been able to shed some light on this subject.

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 12:41 PM

I am sorting out and digitising our old song texts and I came across this, given to us by a local friend.
Wonder if anybody out there knows anything about it - Ultan, maybe, or can correct any discrepencies???
Jim Carroll

THE MEN O' '39
Given to us by a local friend, Michael Falsey. Michael is a local fisherman and musician from Quilty who worked in the building trade in England in the 1940s and 50s.

Come all you Pincher Kiddies and all long distance men,
You may be over in this land, nine years or maybe ten,
You may have tramped this country o'er from Plymouth to the Tyne,
But there's not a word about the boys sir came in '39.

There's not a word about the lads from old Kinsale,
And took the road to Dublin; from Dun Laoghaire they did sail.
The man up in the Globe Hotel, he gave them the 'o'grand',
Saying, good luck upon you Paddy, with the passport in your hand.

Some of those Pincher Kiddies came when England needed men,
His catchword was to catch for the famous Darky Finn.
To slave behind a mixer until your skin turned tanned,
And to say, good on you Paddy, with the passport in your hand.

We travelled up from Liverpool, down to sunny Cornwall;
We got off the bus and scampered when the bombs began to fall.
As Hitler, with his doodlebugs upon us all did land,
We tote the gun with their gas masks on and our passports in our hand.

We worked along the slipways, on the runways and the docks,
And the fourteen blue card numbers soon had us on the rocks.
We prayed to god in heaven above and for DeValera's band.
And we'll cast our vote and take the boat to Erin's lovely land.

Now all of you who stayed at home and never crossed the pond,
And didn't work for Wimpey, McAlpine for John Laing,
Or slave behind a mixer until your skin is tanned,
And to say goodbye to you Paddy, with your passport in your hand.

Now our six months and is nearly up and we'll be going home.
We'll tell the welfare officer we never more will roam,
We'll say farewell to all the girls we met up in the Strand,
And we'll bid adieu and change at Crewe with our passports in our hand.

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: Jim McLean
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:32 PM

Barneyy McKenna always said he worked for Dorman but not for Long.

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: GUEST,john murphy
Date: 07 Dec 10 - 12:24 PM

I beg to differ, i have the original words of mcalpine's fusiliers and it will be included on a new cd called The Muck Shifting Game by myself. the cd will include the long distance kid and many other favourites. So keep a look out for the cd which can be purchased from me by sending a cheque or postal order for £10 or €15 to John Murphy, Ballinamore, Kiltimagh. Co Mayo Ireland

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Mar 17 - 12:44 PM

I have close friends Tom & Mary based in Birmingham Mary Flannery nee Finn who was related to The Darkie Finn she came from Cloontia & kindly sent me an artical produced by the Echoes of Ballaghaderreen 2016 Co Roscommon on the Legend My Cousin The Darkin Finn nee Pat Finn his home viiage was Sheskeen on the Sligo Mayo border near Carrcastle out side Charlestown
Its a nice artical worth getting for those interested in the Irish history in UK construction and this Legendary McAlpines Fusilier
There is a picture of a grave headstone in Carracastle Cemetry with the artical of his relative Tom Jim Finn which mentions Darkie
Our own Parish of Tourlestrane nr Aclare also sits on the Sligo Mayo border old banter Eggs & Rashers for the Sligo Slashers Hay & Oats for the Mayo Goats
Rgds John P. O'Hara tele 00353 86 0854121

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Mar 17 - 07:25 AM

I was told two years ago that the man who wrote it was then working as a DJ on Mid West radio . At the age of ninety! My father said Dominic Behan didn't write it "couldn't have" - although he would have fixed it up.
It's based on the Jackets Green of course- "down the glen came Sarsfield's men"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnFY-nGgVg4

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: OldNicKilby
Date: 10 Mar 17 - 07:35 AM

Many years ago Vic was helping me at the Model Engineering Exhibition at Olympia in London During a lull in sales we had a bit of a sing. There was a customer close by who heard us and asked if we knew McAlpines Fusiliers. We managed to remember a few verses. The man was Lord McAlpine

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Mar 17 - 07:59 AM

the same man who built the exhibition buildings in the thirties -or his father maybe .It was the men off the Olympia Earl's Court site that stopped Moseley's march through Cable Street

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Mar 17 - 08:06 AM

It was the Pear O Shea ,not the Bear O Shea by the way - his head was shaped like a pear .

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: OldNicKilby
Date: 10 Mar 17 - 08:50 AM

His Company owned Olynpia at the time we sang to him

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: GUEST,MacDonnchaidh Co Derry
Date: 12 Jun 19 - 04:05 PM

I worked in England with people from all over Ireland, and i always heard from the original old Pincher men that a Mayo man called Martin Henry a near neighbour of Darkie Finn who features in the song wrote McAlpines Fusiliers as a poem, and that Dominic Behan made a song of it which the Dubliners made famous. If you read Martin Henry's poem the men of '39, part of it contains the the verse that Ronnie Drew recites before the actual song, and the similarities between the two are striking.

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: GUEST,Rod Howell
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 10:51 AM

The last verse the words are often given as "on shuddering jams". I think the correct lyrics are "unshuttering jambs". The skilled chippies would assemble the shuttering for the concrete to be poured and the labourers would dismantle the structures after the concrete hardened - really hard heavy work! The jambs are upright supports (same as we use in door jambs)

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: GUEST,Peter cherry
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 05:08 PM

The Darkie Finn, Was from Cloontia on the Mayo Sligo Border. He was married to my Great Garnd fathers sister. Most of the men from Cloontia worked in England in the warmer months to make some money, returning to bring in the harvest later in the year. Darkie (Patrick) is buried with my great grandfather.

Subject: RE: Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)
From: GUEST,Guest from mayo
Date: 09 Mar 24 - 07:22 PM

I heard one line of a song that went 'the old D8 was working late and the gangerman got the flu' Has anybody heard of this song.I would love to hear the rest of it.