Origins: McAlpine's Fusiliers (Dominic Behan?)

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 06:40 PM

Fran, try the 'Related threads' links at the top of this thread to find out more. Also, the notes at My Songbook may give you some kind of an answer to your question.

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: GUEST,fran
Date: 07 Jun 04 - 05:48 PM

who were mcalpine's furiliers. where did they come from

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 11 Jan 00 - 06:11 PM

No, Susanne, I'd not heard. It may not be the fault of the "apart-ness," but of my own isolation up here in the woods. My God, Robin was a youngster, by my standards! We sang together at a number of coffee-houses in London and I learned a lot of good songs from the lad. One night, after singing at the Troubadour until the tubes had stopped for the night, Robin and I spent the night a Dominic's place. Quite an adventure!

Well, Robin is certainly not the first of my old friends to go, but I sure do regret his loss.

Sandy

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 11 Jan 00 - 05:25 PM

Sandy, I'm sorry to have to tell you Robin Hall finally died last year, after long illness apparently. Surprising that you shouldn't have heard, but I suppose it's a symptom of the 'apart-ness' of the folk scenes in Europe and the States. If you'd like more info I'll search through my back numbers of the Living Tradition. - Susanne

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: AKS
Date: 11 Jan 00 - 05:48 AM

What about Ronnie Drew? Perhaps he could explain why The D:s credit it to DB - and he also is still around methinks.

AKS

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 11:58 PM

Hope you find it, Dan, 'cause Sandy can't help. I know I've heard the song sung, but I can't remember whether Dominic was singing it then or if I heard it later on a recording. Peggy Seeger could probably enlighten us, as she was with Ewan at all of those Princess Louise sessions in '57/'58 where Dominic was an occasional participant. Then there were the Wednesday night sessions with Stan Kelly, Shirley Collins, Isobel Sutherland, etc. Dominic was a regular there, having become a bit too boisterous a few too many times at the Princess Louise. Anybody keeping in touch with Robin Hall these days? He was one of us, too, back in those impoverished times. God, didn't we have fun!

Sandy

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 10:26 PM

TO: John Moulden

I will visit the dungeon later in the week and examine the skeletons. You'll get a report if I can locate the body you seek.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 10:23 PM

TO: McGrath of Harlow

Memory tells me the company was actually called McAlpin (there's been a merger or takeover since), as in Sir Alfred McAlpin.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: nick
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:15 PM

Tom Dayhill of St. Paul Irish folk singing fame gave me another version of McAlpine. The tune is and the subject are the same, but lyrics are very different. Tom told me that this was the orginal lyric written by John Henry of Silgo. Tom, if you're out there respond.

Nick Kelly [e-mail]

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 07:09 PM

Well, it has to be McAlpine's, because that's tye name of the firm. I suppose Dominic might have sung McAldine because someone was worried about libel or something.

I've always heard of it as Dominic. I think it's quite likely that some other fella might have come up with the nickname "McAlpine's Fusiliers", and that Dominic took it from there. There's a Darky Finn in the song.

Someone ask Frank Harte. If anyone knows, he knows.

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: John Moulden
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 06:40 PM

I decided I could do without it a long time ago - one of a number of such decisions I now regret and am now repairing when I see the items.

Perhaps Sandy could help.

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 05:58 PM

I'm just wondering, John, whether you have "The Irish Rover" and what the sleeve and label say. If you don't have it, I could check to see whether I do. I have a couple of Dominic Behan on Folklore in storage. Perhaps that's one of them.

Sandy Paton knew Dominic way-back-when, perhaps he knows something about "McAlpine's Fusiliers." I only ever met him once and he was like we all get sometimes.

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 05:10 PM

Marki, the oldest and also the most popular version I've heard is the one by the Dubliners. As they credit it to Dominic, this could be the reason everybody else thought they must know what they're talking about. Not much help either, I know ... - Susanne

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Marki
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 02:12 PM

Not that this really helps, but every book I've ever seen this song in, credits it to Dominic Behan. Also on different CD's by different artists, it's credited to Dominic Behan. So if he claimed authorship and was lying, alot of people out there have fallen for it! And, not that I'm an expert on Dominic Behan's writings, but this song does have his type of flair to it.

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: Brakn
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 11:30 AM

Just to add

The only reason it stuck in me head was that I always like to know who wrote songs that I sing and this guy was adamant that Darkie McClafferty wrote it. McClafferty apparently worked around Manchester, England in the late sixties, having written the song years before. Whether it's the truth, i'm not certain.

Mick Bracken

Subject: RE: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: John Moulden
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:28 AM

Sorry, Mike Bracken's informant attributed the song to a navvy called Darkie McClafferty; I hate getting things wrong.

Subject: McAlpine's Fusiliers - Dominic Behan
From: John Moulden
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 09:25 AM

This is a transfer of a red herring which I raised in the thread "Help - origins of Carrickfergus" (qv). It concerns the first publication and presumed authorship of McAlpine's Fusiliers.

I first heard it from Dominic Behan on his LP "The Irish Rover" Folklore F-LEUT-2 (October 1961 or slighlty before) as McAldine's Fusiliers. Subsequently, it became popular on account of the Dubliners. Their songbook credits Behan with its authorship and has an undated copyright notice in favout of Essex Music.

I am puzzled by this because the song is in neither of the songbooks I believe were Dominic's complete output of that nature.

Mike Bracken says that his attribution of the song to Behan was challenged by someone who claimed it for an Irish navvy called McCafferty and that Behan's claim was spurious.

Any light?