BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 07:40 PM

PFR, it's just my opinion, but it's not worth it.s far. There are some things I just won't ever understand.
Steve, she HAS dialed it back, and a as I've seen, has mostly avoided talking about it. I guess it was likely the smart thing to do.
I don't know why you thought my comment about people slamming to one side or the other was directed at you. Sometimes, it feels like you're trying to provoke a fight with me. While you can keep trying if it makes you happy, I hope you don't mind if I continue to ignore the opportunity.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Feb 21 - 07:55 PM

"Sometimes, it feels like you're trying to provoke a fight with me. While you can keep trying if it makes you happy, I hope you don't mind if I continue to ignore the opportunity."

What?? You are clearly somewhat anti-Brit, and you don't mind showing it, but that does not provoke me at all. It's entirely your problem. You don't do nuance, do you? The post that this is a response to is yet another 100 mph slam. If you want a fight I shall gracefully step away. This 'ere internet thingie is far too two-dimensional to get all hoity-toity about. Real life is always round the corner and I have a cottage pie to make for tea tomorrow. Can you see that?

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 05:39 AM

Man woman, boy girl........end of. Only cranks attention seekers and fruitcakes think otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:21 AM

I'm sure we all appreciate your all-seeing, all-knowing tolerance, Bonzo.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Rain Dog
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:12 AM

I think you are forgetting hermaphrodite/intersex people Bonzo

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:01 AM

Not interested, they can sort out their own problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:15 AM

Perhaps it would be best if you spiced your lack of interest with lack of comment, Bonzo. Free country, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:16 AM

Free country it is indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:36 AM

free to insult trans members of mudcat,bloody diosgrace

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:40 AM

there are trans performers on the uk folk circuit they occasionally post here ,they dont want bonzos intellectual insults

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:43 AM

I am saying that non-expert celebs who sound off about things unrelated to the reason for their celebrity should perhaps be viewed through a lens of scepticism.

And I view such sweeping dismissal of the general intellect of all people in the public eye as nonsense. Each must be taken on their own merit. I don't find Rowling's intellect to be lacking, so she may speak about what she wants to. Now Trump, that's another story. He can shut up from the get go. See how that works?

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:56 AM

Not offended by Bonzo3legs, here.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 09:59 AM

but do you speak for all trans peopl?/

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:49 AM

Sorry, Maggie, but if you don't see the difference between "suggesting that non-expert celebs who sound off about things unrelated to the reason for their celebrity should perhaps be viewed through a lens of scepticism" and "sweeping dismissal of the general intellect of all people in the public eye" then I think you're having a bad day. I note that you have also dismissed a thread that's discussing Amazon as having been set up for fighting. Well go and have a look and see how we are handling it. The main fighting talk in that thread so far has come from you and Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: leeneia
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 03:27 PM

Last week the pastor of my church said that she had been talking to hospital chaplains who are very discouraged because doctors and nurses are leaving medicine because of the great stress caused by Covid. I'm sure all nations have similar problems.

That being the case, this is hardly the time to add further stresses by making demands about people's vocabulary.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 04:09 PM

Why on earth would anybody think I speak for anyone other than myself?

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 04:17 PM

Well we do sometimes struggle with finding the right words. Negro, black, coloured, Afro-Caribbean, black African, African-American, person of colour... Gay, queer, homosexual, lesbian, queen...Asian, British Asian... Same thing with gender matters that we have to tussle with. The thing is, the people like you and me who have to tussle with finding the words are not the people in those minorities who oft find themselves discriminated against, often with the words of language we are now tussling with being the main weapon. To my way of thinking, it's worth our efforts to be respectful enough to find the right words, the words those minorities would want us to use (not necessarily the words they might use among their own). It's hard work, but not as hard as the work those minorities have to do to fight those prejudices...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 04:30 PM

No disagreement with that..

The problem is that however these new words which are satisfactory for minorities are decided upon.
They can then become weaponised by activist fanatics, and imposed on greater mass mainstream socity,
by force of internet bullying/canceling;
or even law and punishment..

This is what lefty liberals like me feel uncomfortable with,
and what antagonistic right wing media
can exploit as ammunition to fuel prejudice
against minorities...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 05:48 PM

That's it. Words as weapons. I have a little paperback that I bought in the 1980s called In A Dark Time. The first chapter is called Words. It consists of quotations from lots of different sources, many of which reveal how words can be weapons, how words can twist things and manipulate, as well as how words can inspire. Trump is a complete arse but he has used words brilliantly. He's an evil sod but he fully knows how to keep words simple, how to whip up his simple supporters via his simple words. It ill-behoves us mainstream-types to complain that getting the right words is too hard, too much of a nuisance, too much of a pain in the arse, when we have to talk about minorities, who have to struggle a damn sight more with their feelings of repression and their battles with prejudice than we have to do with our words. I haven't got my head round the language of gender as yet, but I'm buggered if I'm going to sound off about the issue until I've educated myself as to the right words to use...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:12 PM

Steve, I took the fighting words out of the Amazon thread. That's why you don't see them.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:32 PM

I haven't even looked. Not my gig. If stuff goes, it's gone. Cheers anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: leeneia
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 10:56 AM

Me, I've come to suspect that most demands for political correctness are meant to derail the discussion and focus attention on the demander. It's childish, or at least 50% childish.

Sure, if you hear a kid say "nigger," you teach him better. But I'm tired of wondering which of four terms to use for "Native Americans from south of the Rio Grand."

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 12:02 PM

Well I think we should make the effort. As I said, politically-incorrect language (call it lazy language?) is in danger of demeaning groups of people who already have more than enough by way of prejudice to contend with. They have to make a mighty effort to escape their predicament. We have to make a tiny effort just to try to get the words right. All we have to do is try; it doesn't matter if we occasionally get it wrong...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jos
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 12:21 PM

My problem is that what is offensive and what is acceptable keep changing. For example, 'cripple' was replaced by 'handicapped', and then by 'disabled', and now some insist on saying 'differently abled' - soon it will be something else, and earlier versions that used to be widespread and considered correct will be considered insulting or offensive.
Or the 'offensive' terms may reappear as acceptable. Black people can now refer to themselves as niggers, but if you are not black it is frowned on or roundly condemned.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 12:59 PM

its still ok for bonzo to call someone bonkers so i think bonzo is bonkers

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 01:37 PM

no of course bonzo is not bonkers he is the most intelligent sensible tolerant liberal person on mudcat

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 02:47 PM

...Apart from you... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 03:33 PM

and you.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 21 - 04:57 PM

Careful, Dick - Valentine's Day was yesterday... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: leeneia
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 12:57 AM

On the geological map of Newfoundland there is a dotted line labelled "The Red Indian Line." While on a tour, I asked the expert what that meant, and she went off about the political incorrectness of it. (For all we know, it was named by a red Indian.)

First of all, there were no native people anywhere nearby to be offended, and she brushed off my science question of no importance. That's an example of someone using political correctness to grab the spotlight.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 03:48 AM

there are people who come on to this forum who are trans who could be offended, that is the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Senoufou
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 03:58 AM

I too find it tricky keeping up with all the latest PC/'woke' ways of using words, but for me the main idea is not to offend anybody and to avoid words/expressions which hurt people's feelings or imply prejudice, insult or disparagement.
It costs me nothing to make an effort to adapt my vocabulary. It might be tedious and make me hesitate to open my mouth (which my husband cheekily says is a Very Good Thing!) but I would feel terrible if anyone was hurt or upset by something I inadvertently said.
I've posted on here before about how he jokingly calls me 'Honky' and I call him 'Nigger' (mostly in private). And his cringe-making habit of calling out in the supermarket from the next aisle, "Darling! You're Nigger is 'ere!" making everyone around us aghast with horror.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 04:03 AM

It costs me nothing to make an effort to adapt my vocabulary,
I agree and if it makes a a person feel more comfotrable when visiting this forum. why not.
I know two trans people from the uk folk scene who occasionally visit here why would i want to upset them

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 08:35 AM

"there are people who come on to this forum who are trans who could be offended, that is the difference"

Well that is tough is it not? Nobody has the right not to be offended.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 08:54 AM

Yep, it's tough all right. For them. Extra tough because they have no right not to be offended with regard to everything else in life, like the rest of us, but with the icing on the cake for them being the extra thing that can be used to offend them. Offend them or, put it another way, subject them to your prejudice. Don't forget to stop just short of hate speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 10:03 AM

I'm all for being nice, but the "rules" in the article are just plain stupid.
Any trans people who come here aren't likely to be offended by "breast" or "mother". The language has ventured into the absurd, and looks more like the article, and its prohibitions, were created by a right wing whacko who was ham-handedly wielding irony.

Which is, I believe, how the term "political correctness" entered the lexicon.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 10:29 AM

Jeri it is better to use the term parent , , the language imo is not absurd , for example it becomes more apt for single parent families , or for mothers that now use sperm banks, and the child does not have a living father, you have to move with the times

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 10:38 AM

Well we don't need prescriptions but we do need to be mindful and humanitarian in the words we each choose.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 10:41 AM

anyway brighton are not going to take any notice of people like bonzo and jeri

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 11:07 AM

IMHO/edumacated guess..

One factor guaranteed for minorities to annoy & alienate 'mainstream' society,
and for right wing groups/media to exploit against them;

is militant minority activists who attempt to exert a disproportionate sense of entitlement and power
over the vocabulary and conduct of the mass population..

Getting this right is a fine [near impossible ?] balance...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 11:08 AM

Or you.
If someone is trying to talk about their female parent, saying "mother" is more specific.
Language police: let em spin, let 'em scatter in the wind, I have been to the movies...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 12:30 PM

jeri, you have been to the movies, i am impressed, you have been to the movies and you can bake a cherry pie.
another great step forward for mankind

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 01:06 PM

Ooh and now it's a music thread, Bilky boy, Billy boy...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 01:06 PM

Thankyou Jeri, absurd is absolutely right.

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 01:40 PM

The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatever that it is not utterly absurd.

Bertrand Russell

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 06:24 PM

My school had a headmaster and my wife's school on Buenos Aires had a headmistress . None of modern day neuterising!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 07:35 PM

Headteacher. Hardly a PC word...

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Feb 21 - 08:08 AM

Bonzo, how do i know what sex you are? I think you might be a woman, so would it not be safer if i just call you dog warden or dog person, i know you are dog matic , but that is the only certain thing about you

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 18 Feb 21 - 08:31 AM

Bonzo, how do i know what sex you are?

Given Bonzo's opinions, demonstrated here in this thread, then "........my wife's school ......", posted just two messages up from yours, should give you a clue.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Hospital in Brighton has gone bonkers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Feb 21 - 09:05 AM

Hmm. Dunno, Doug. At least a couple of women on the telly who are in single-sex marriages refer to their wives...

I'd have thought that a more solid deduction would be that no woman would come out with such uniformly daft notions as Bonzo does... :-)