BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 10:37 AM

You can lift things around the house, use weights with exercises, put on a backpack with cans in it when you go for a walk. I'd look into how long, how often, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 09:31 AM

I'm not a gym-goer, so I do my weight bearing exercises when I go to the supermarket. I carry everything in shopping bags. It's surprising how heavy the bags get especially with tinned food or large liquid items like milk and juice or big tins of olive oil.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jun 21 - 08:03 AM

Weight-bearing exercise will be looked into too, thanks! Phylates and oxalates already being researched.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 08:41 PM

The research is about one specific caterpillar with a venomous sting.

We used to get spitfire bugs here - I'm not sure what their scientific name is but they look as jazzy as those ones referred to in the article. In fact, I suspect they might be related. If one was disturbed it would spit venom and it hurt like heck for days, as I recall. I haven't seen them here for years. They could be used as an alternative to capsicum spray because they would deter even the toughest, most determined criminals or muggers.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 06:44 PM

Depends on the caterpillar, Helen - we have some here called the "Asp" or Puss caterpillar, from the flannel moth, and that sting is so painful that you want to chop off the body part that got the sting.

I use My Fitness Pal (the free version) to track my calcium. I enter the foods each day and have it set so I see in general the amount of calcium I will likely have eaten (I also have it set for protein and carbs, but you can set it for sodium, for fiber, etc.) After dinner I check the amount and if I have only eaten 75% of what I need, I break a 600mg tablet and take half, to make up the 25% (1200mg daily for me.) Your needs may vary. And if you're needing to build up calcium in your bones, you need to be doing weight bearing exercises.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 10:28 AM

Mrrzy, that's worrying. Another reason not to eat an unbalanced diet, IMHO.

This is not going to help you yet because the scientific research is in its very early stages but you might find it interesting:

Caterpillar's venom may help treat nervous system disorders
such as epilepsy

and kill parasites in sheep - which probably won't be useful for you. LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Jun 21 - 05:55 AM

Ok definite issue: 3rd broken toe in the last year-ish after a lifetime of no broken bones. If I stub it, it breaks, now. Moving diet in direction of more calcium, more things that enhance Ca absorption, and fewer things that inhibit same.
This one might actually be a broken foot... Urgent care, when they open.

Subject: RE: BS: Mrrzy is living in interesting times...
From: Helen
Date: 18 May 21 - 03:18 PM

Hi Mrrzy, I hope everything works out ok.

You seem to have been reminded not to go off the carbs wagon, though.

Cabbage. Not my go-to food for most things although I do like coleslaw served with hot chicken, but, I saw part of a Rick Stein (UK chef, one of my faves) TV show From Venice to Istanbul a couple of days ago and he was in Istanbul. He ate this at a cafe and then showed how to cook it:

Etli Kapuska – Turkish Cabbage Stew With Meat

I might try it out. It has good flavours and spices in it and it looks fairly easy to make.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 21 - 09:08 AM

Older'n dirt!

Stilly, very interested in your progress.

I am not sure what my *percentage* carbs is but I try to keep them under 50 *grams* per day.

This weekend on my YAY post-vax visits I ate some, not a lot, delicious bread with some of my delicious meals, and had small bites of people's desserts, and while I was shaking a lot thought I was mentally OK till my son called from his loony bin to ask about places to stay as they are letting him out, bad (which means he'll go to jail, worse) - I was at the wheel on my way home- and I got frantically distressed instead of just Oh, Shit, and had to pull over.

Back to really no carbs for me. Ate cabbage last night, yum.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jos
Date: 17 May 21 - 05:43 PM

Maybe 'paleo' means 'very old'.
If it just meant 'old' we could we could go back fifty years: prawn cocktail, ham and pineapple chunks on cocktail sticks stuck in a grapefruit to look like a hedgehog, black forest gateau ... butterscotch angel delight ...

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 21 - 05:21 PM

I've adjusted My Fitness Pal to show me the graphic as I enter foods, and it is remarkably difficult to reduce carbs to below 50%. The best I've managed so far is to combine protein and fat to slightly overtake the carb percentage. I'm nowhere near the 50% protein the doctor mentioned, so I'm wondering if I misunderstood her (and frankly, I don't know that that much is healthy gut-wise). I'll be researching and working on this myself, but at my blood retest in a couple of months I'll ask for a clarification.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 May 21 - 03:07 AM

"Palæo-" just means "old", and only relates specifically to "palæolithic" in some contexts.

I saw a keto diet magazine on a newsstand yesterday. That is something that shouldn't exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 12 May 21 - 06:59 PM

You're probably right, Jos. :-)

Although the poo was found in rock shelters and not more agriculturally developed areas so hunting and gathering for food might have been the norm.

"An international team of researchers analysed ancient poo samples from rock shelters in the US and Mexico, and compared the microbial make-up to those found in modern samples from Western and developing countries."

It's still an interesting comparison with modern day life in developed countries.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jos
Date: 12 May 21 - 05:16 PM

I know I am being picky, but surely palaeofaeces would be from some 10,000 years ago or earlier, before farming took off, when food would have been hunted or found growing wild.
By 2,000 years ago there would have been farms and vineyards. Maybe not highly processed food, but not just a stone age diet.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 12 May 21 - 04:59 PM

I just read this article about what palaeofaeces can tell us about how our gut microbiome has changed in more industrialised societies:

What 2,000-year-old poo says about our gut bugs

One of the influences on modern day gut microbiome is the use - or overuse - of antibiotics. Coincidentally, I just watched a medical documentary about that this week. Another is the modern diet in many developed countries, including lots of junk or fast foods.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 May 21 - 09:28 AM

Me too, on Dilbert and offices.

Mac and cheese was one thing I had to have a small bit of at my last potluck. Luckily it wasn't as good as our family's so I was able to have just that one bite...

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 12 May 21 - 01:28 AM

I turned the TV on this morning and a cooking show called Mary's Kitchen Crush was on. She was cooking her own versions of what she called Stadium Staples for her friends who were coming over to watch some sport on TV.

Usually, most of the cooking shows seem to be pushing relatively healthy, balanced food but I was gobsmacked. She made what she called pretzel hot dogs, which was a hot dog wrapped in a dough with two tablespoons each of honey and butter and more salt than I would use, and she also made her version of corn dogs, but she cooked a very cheesy macaroni bake, then sliced it up when it was cold and dipped it into a batter which included corn meal, and salt and sugar, then deep fried them.

Thinking about the ingredients, it was pretty much everything I choose not to eat: deep fried, salty, sweet, white flour, butter (which I do eat as a treat now and then, usually on baked veges), processed meat, white pasta.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 10 May 21 - 06:42 PM

Yep, Mrrzy! Dilbert knows the situation.

Dilbert is my favourite cartoon series. I have some of the books, I used to read them at work to help maintain my sanity. And I used to stick some of the more relevant ones up on the noticeboard to pee off the managers and make my colleagues laugh and/or cry because it was almost like the managers read Dilbert and thought it was a how-to manual.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 10 May 21 - 06:14 PM

Blicky.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 10 May 21 - 04:48 PM

Just briefly mentioning the Atkins diet again, one of the thoughts I have had over the years about the "controversies" stirred up about it is that the fast food giants and the sugar giants would have hated it. The Atkins diet plan focuses on healthy veges, fruit, proteins, wholegrains, legumes, and healthy fats, i.e. everything except white carbs - hot chips/fries, battered chicken and fish, burger buns, pizza bases etc - and high sugar content - sugary drinks, sugar in baked goods, sugar in low-fat yoghurt, sugar hidden in all sorts of foods from the supermarket shelf etc. It would have had those people spinning in fear. They would have hit it with every marketing - and fearmongering - tool at their disposal.

In this era the regular diet, in the sense of habitual eating habits, of the developed countries has an extremely high proportion of junk food consumed within the populations. Any move away from that has to be healthier.

Your great-to-awful job sounds very, very much like mine. I was happy to retire because of management reorganisations which had no basis in the reality of the jobs themselves. Every new manager needed to show how "forward-thinking" they were by throwing out the old (tried, tested and true) and replacing it with the current management fad. My stress levels are way more healthy now, and my sleep patterns are pretty much back to normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 21 - 02:57 PM

As a note to reading the original research papers on medical science (and any other fields): I use Google Scholar to track down things for a gardening site I work for. There is a research part of the site where I can share summaries and abstracts of papers (that usually cost to download if you're not a subscriber to the scholarly journal). We do the fair use process of posting the abstract and a link to the paper if anyone wants to buy it.

Today I used Google's Chrome Extension called Unpaywall that searches university library repositories and other scholarly locations (i.e., governmental institutes) for free versions of the paid articles. It took universities a while to catch on, but many of them now have their own library repositories so the next to last version of the paper to be published can be stored in a way the school that pays the researchers can use the paper without paying the subscription fee to use it. Google compares authors and content and comes back with an email and a spreadsheet with a field that includes the link to the repository if it is parked in one. There are several ways to send the query, and the results are sent in a spreadsheet to your email address.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/unpaywall/iplffkdpngmdjhlpjmppncnlhomiipha

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 May 21 - 12:26 PM

When I went to that page the pistachio article was below.

Yes, these pages tend to be on aggregator sites that pull together material and are meant as click bait. But sometimes you find something interesting in there that you can track down.

Healthy carbs do exist but we are habituated to foods that have way too many. Perhaps the invention of the sandwich was the downfall of the Western human diet. Learning to eat things without bread attached is a process to work on.

I avoided wheat for a couple of years while I was being treated for Polymyalgia Rheumatica (PMR). It was just my own theory of what might be helpful to get over an inflammatory disease that might have been partly a result of my diet. The steroids worked and were tapered, I don't know if the diet made a difference. I do eat wheat again now, and sometimes wonder if I'm tempting fate (though in fact, I think it was the stress of the job that went from great to awful with the hiring of a new dean who proceeded to make everyone as miserable as possible with a reorganization.) I retired right about the same time as the last of the prednisone was administered.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 May 21 - 08:07 AM

That Healthline article is basically marketing hype for the "health food" industry and even discounting the glaring booboos it has close to zero relevance to what Mrrzy is after.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: gillymor
Date: 10 May 21 - 07:34 AM

Here is the link to the healthline.com article The seventeen best sources of protein for vegans and vegetarians.. The link below led me to an interesting article on pistachios and melatonin.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 21 - 05:21 AM

The problem with the thread is that it's turning into cranks' corner, Maggie. However, I'll leave y'all to it and won't post in it again.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 May 21 - 04:00 AM

For maintaining a keto diet sprouted grains are just as bad as ordinary ones - in fact their GI is likely to be higher. The point of some diets is what you DON'T eat, and adding magic ingredients doesn't change that. People often screw up that way with diets for food intolerance - if you can't tolerate gluten grains, bread made with wheat is always going to make you sick no matter how much quinoa, linseed, oats, millet and soya you mix in with it. Or if it comes in a brown paper bag with "organic" printed on it in green ink.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 21 - 10:46 PM

Why don't you just stop raining on this parade? Every other post you have something dismissive about the other remarks - we've had this problem before with you in this thread. We're grownups, there are a number of advanced degrees here, we have talked to our doctors, and we can make up our own minds about these suggestions without that kind of "help." And I'm tired of deleting various squabbles that you're bringing up. Be polite or go find someplace else to participate.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 21 - 09:27 PM

If you want helpful advice for a wonky thyroid, Maggie, don't look here - see a professional!

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 21 - 09:11 PM

Not helpful advice when trying to adjust to a wonky thyroid, Steve.

The 17 Best Protein Sources for Vegans and Vegetarians

One thing they list is the sprouted grains breads - I buy them sometimes, but it sounds like a tedious process to make. "Ezekiel" bread - does anyone make it?

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 21 - 07:50 PM

In the words of The Richard Dawkins atheist bus, stop worrying and enjoy life!

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 May 21 - 07:47 PM

I've adjusted the settings in My Fitness Pal to show me the pie chart of my intake during the day. I switched it to tracking carbs, fats, and protein, and it's helpful in seeing what is going on. I've looked to see what their Premium account covers - they don't offer enough more to make it worth $50 a year (though I'd love to hear from anyone who uses it for a comparison of the plans).

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 May 21 - 06:42 PM

Selenium is very unevenly distributed - in parts of China it reaches toxic levels in the soil. The medical archaeologists doing the dig at Soutra Aisle a few miles from where I live found that a particular herb with a high selenium content was prescribed as a spring tonic by the mediaeval monks - probably for its effects on the thyroid as Helen described. So was selenium deficiency a local problem? There is a resource to help answer that, the geochemical atlas of Britain. I've read through relevant parts of it when my wife had patients in a place that seemed to have something endemically toxic that had been poisoning families within an area a few hundred yards across for generations. Unfortunately that was just below the atlas's resolution, but it's much more detailed than you'd expect to be possible. If people lived entirely off their gardens the variations in their mineral intake would be huge.

Another trace element like that is manganese. Robert McCarrison investigated that decades ago in India. Deficiency was a serious problem in Bengal, not at all in Punjab. Bengalis are rice-eating vegetarians, Punjabis are wheat-eating omnivores. So Bengalis had a use for manganese supplementation and Punjabis didn't. And in many parts of the world a normal diet can have toxic levels of the stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 09 May 21 - 06:38 PM

Hypothyroidism. Need selenium.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 21 - 06:02 PM

Selenium is deficient in soils in limited areas of Australia. It's unlikely that most Aussies will suffer from a deficiency. I have many relatives in Oz, in both Perth and the Melbourne areas. They are all hale and hearty and they appear to care not a jot about potential deficiencies. My philosophy on all this is to stop worrying and enjoy life. A handful of Brazils is a bloody good idea, because I love Brazils. Until tonight I was blissfully unaware of their selenium content. Good ol' rainforests, eh? ;-).

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 09 May 21 - 04:52 PM

Thanks for that information, Jack. It's a good reminder that we are all different.

In Australia, one of the micronutrients we need to add to our diet is selenium because it is deficient in soil here, so I eat a handful of brazil nuts at least a couple of times a week. My hypothyroid condition is helped by a bit of a selenium boost.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 May 21 - 10:18 AM

Your best shot, as ever, is to eat a good mixture of grub, going for freshness and top quality. Junk food, fast food, a rare treat only. In people with no underlying medical issues, supplements are scarcely needed, if at all. There is concern about Vitamin D deficiency in winter, as good food sources are the exception. Folate is one to watch. Eat your greens and beans in abundance. What's not to like? Veganism is is a self-imposed risk. Not for me, not ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 09 May 21 - 07:14 AM

The one thing that is clear about micronutrient supplements is that there can't be any general answers about whether they help. There are three different variables:

- individual variations in metabolism
- nutrient density of the diet
- cofactors that affect bioavailability.

We now know a lot about how people's metabolic pathways can vary. Thousands of variations are catalogued as "inborn errors of metabolism", some diagnosable by DNA sequencing and some not, with consequences ranging from death in the womb to early dementia. None is all that common but cumulatively they add up. And you can catch nutrient malabsorption at any age - many quite common diseases can cause it. (Worldwide, tropical sprue may be the most important).

Human diets are far more variable now than before. The nutrient densities of foods can depend on the soil and fertilizer use where they're grown, the crop variety, storage and transport methods, processing, packaging and light exposure in the shop. Nutrient tables like the USDA's or McCance and Widdowson can't take account of all that.

And whether a nutrient gets through to do its thing may depend on what else you eat, when, and who you're sharing your body with. Eggs can block biotin absorption: a biotin level in the diet above the RDA may be nowhere near enough if eggs are a major protein source for you. Eat lots of cabbage (of some varieties but NOT all) and you may need extra iodine. Alcohol can block thiamine absorption badly enough to cause irreversible brain damage. Intestinal worms can eat up your pyridoxine and folate before you get a chance.

No population-wide policy can address all of this, and doctors rarely know about it in useful detail. If you can identify why your nutritional requirements might be idiosyncratic, and spot the right symptoms, you can do better.

(I take a high dose of vitamin A every two or three weeks. The reasons are straight out of a medical textbook, and I know it's worked within hours, but I haven't the faintest idea why my diet isn't providing enough - should be well above RDA).

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 May 21 - 11:32 PM

I thought it had been demonstrated long ago that pretty much no supplements were what they said or did what they claimed.

Helen, dear, yeah, I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 08 May 21 - 08:50 PM

My posts are about what worked for me and about healthy balanced eating plans with lots of veges, fruit, good proteins, wholegrains, legumes, nuts, seeds etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 08 May 21 - 07:45 PM

Correct, complete, factual information is essential in my opinion.

An ex-colleague of my husband who heard that Atkins is higher protein than some other diets, did not read the actual Atkins information but decided that he had free reign to eat a great big fatty plate of bacon and eggs every day for breakfast, or steak and eggs for lunch with little or no vegetable matter.

Or an ex-colleague of mine who heard the tail end of a documentary about the 5:2 Fast Diet and thought all she could consume on the fasting days was tea or water. She didn't read the actual 5:2 Fast Diet information and was surprised to learn that the calorie restriction for the fasting days is easy to live with, especially knowing that she could eat normally on the non-fasting days.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 May 21 - 07:25 PM

Quite so, Jack. Unfortunately, the overriding context of the discussion of keto here has little or nothing to do with epilepsy. "Like it?"

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 May 21 - 06:23 PM

Mrrzy is spot on about how old keto is. R.M. Wilder and W.D. Winter, "The threshold of ketogenesis", J. Biol. Chem. 1922, 52:401. Cited in Ekvall and Ekvall, "Pediatric Nutrition in Chronic Diseases and Developmental Disorders" - they mention that the idea of selective starvation to control seizures goes back a few centuries

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 May 21 - 05:10 PM

I've just had a conversation with my brother who has the discipline to change his diet sufficiently to lower his cholesterol to the degree that he could stop taking the statin drug to control it. He said it means eating an almost vegetarian diet (with some fish thrown in on occasion). His total is down around 144 right now. Good work. Mine used to be fairly low naturally, and I'm pretty sure a less selective diet has been a contributor to the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Helen
Date: 07 May 21 - 02:20 PM

The etymology of the word diet shows that it comes originally from the Greek through Latin and then Old French.

Having studied Latin, Anglo-Saxon and Middle English, as well as Geography I use the word diet in its original meaning as what a person tends to eat in normal life. It wasn't until more recently (historically speaking) that it also took on the meaning of a prescribed restriction of food for medical - or other - reasons.

I certainly do not equate the word "diet" with "fad diet". There are some fad diets (prescribed or restricted eating plans) but there are also some healthy eating plans. One does not necessarily equate to the other.

diet (n.1)

c. 1200, "regular food," from Old French diete (13c.) "diet, pittance, fare," from Medieval Latin dieta "parliamentary assembly," also "a day's work; daily food allowance, food," from Latin diaeta "prescribed way of life," from Greek diaita, originally "way of life, regimen, dwelling," related to diaitasthai "lead one's life," and from diaitan, originally "separate, select" (food and drink), frequentative of *diainysthai "take apart," from dia "apart" (see dia-) + ainysthai "take," from PIE root *ai- (1) "to give, allot."

From late 14c. as "customary way of eating," also "food considered in relation to its quantity and effects," and "a course of food regulated by a physician or by medical rules," often a restriction of food or certain foods; hence to put (someone) on a diet (mid-15c.). The adjective in the sense of "slimming, having reduced calories" (Diet Coke, etc.) is attested by 1963, originally in American English.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 May 21 - 12:54 PM

Mrrzy you could have confused this thread if you'd brought up a Diet of Worms. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 May 21 - 12:24 PM

Cultured dairy products are nearly lactose-free - the microbes eat the lactose. So yogurt is generally ok for cats, though they're usually lactose intolerant. (Hedgehogs are much more seriously intolerant, I wouldn't try it with them).

One of the odder kinds of dairy intolerance is "total cow allergy", to beef or any form of dairy. I don't know what the offending allergen is.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 May 21 - 08:27 AM

When my wife was working as a dietitian she came across a survey article that listed 51 different kinds of dairy intolerance. It can be to sugars, fats or protein. The one she has is a form of casein intolerance - it is genetically linked to schizophrenia, which some of her family have had.   Casein in any form produces horrible psychic effects.

Lactose intolerance is normal - adult tolerance of lactose is a recent mutation (arising independently in different parts of the world). It's the easiest kind of dairy intolerance to manage. At the other extreme, almost nobody with anaphylaxis to dairy protein lives into adulthood.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 May 21 - 08:25 AM

Yeah, I corrected folks early on who thought by Diet I meant Weightloss regimen when what I had actually meant was Way of eating. We do need a different word for Way of eating, as in Mediterranean diet or, in this thread's case, keto diet. I had not intended the thread title to be misleading, but it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 21 - 05:39 AM

When it comes to grapes, I can cheerfully munch my way through half a pound or more, especially if they're Sable grapes, but my guts will not feel good the next day. When you drink most wine, you are not consuming much, if any, of the grape sugars, and you are not eating the skins or flesh. I think there's a clue there...

Subject: RE: BS: Keto diet - anybody try it? Like it?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 May 21 - 04:57 AM

When it comes to milk, we stopped using it for long drinks or sticking it on breakfast cereals, etc., years ago. We still have it in tea and coffee, but where we used milk before we now use oat "milk" (with no added sugar). I find that fine in porridge but not in coffee. I must say that my guts have felt much better as a result. Incidentally, if you think lactose is an issue for you in dairy foods, there's very little or no lactose at all in mature cheddar or Parmesan. Good to know!