BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!

Subject: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:09 AM

I'm sure that we and many other people would have found life in lockdown very difficult without the extraordinary service provided by Amazon!!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:15 AM

Mixed feelings here. I prefer to be grateful for all those harassed and badly-paid delivery drivers, and the people who have to rush around massive, charmless warehouses in order to meet their near-impossible targets to get the stuff to us.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:16 AM

Brutal exploitative shits. It was obvious where they were headed from the very start and I have never bought anything from them.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:19 AM

We've sort of covered it in three little posts!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:28 AM

Amazon , i never use them , why should i thank them. i would rather thank the doctors and nurses

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:20 AM

Amazon consists of hundreds of thousands of low-paid workers in vast, soulless warehouses, sorting, gathering, packing and labelling the stuff we order before loading it on to trucks or vans, to be brought to us by an army of low-paid delivery drivers, all of these workers forced to stick to extremely tight, inhuman schedules. Oh, and a few highly-paid big knobs in offices (including squads of accountants to make sure that Amazon pays as little tax as possible so that the company can compete with the high street on unfair terms). Stuff that the millions of us who use Amazon don't see. We're good at "not seeing things." We don't see what happens to what we flush down the bog and probably don't care. We eat eggs and chickens without worrying too much how the birds were treated in their short lives. We simply see those neat little cleaned-up fillets, sitting several abreast in innocent-looking film-covered plastic trays in Tesco. We aren't that bothered about that packaging either, as long as the bin man takes it every week. When we turn up the heating to get the house cosy, we don't see the pollution churned out by the power stations that enable us to do it.

We have rights, you see...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:36 AM

We too have been very grateful for Amazon. We've bought quite a few things during lockdown which we couldn't have obtained otherwise. (Mainly DIY stuff)
We always give the courier a tenner for his efforts, and a bar of chocolate/cupcake etc. And we're always happy to take in our neighbours' deliveries if needed. (Tenner tip just the same)
Amazon's site is easy to navigate (I'm a bit dim on the computer!), wide choice, good prices, swift delivery. Never had any problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:00 AM

"Brutal exploitative shits. It was obvious where they were headed from the very start and I have never bought anything from them."

Getting offended on behalf of the drivers who are almost certainly grateful for the work are we??????????????????

My wife is disabled and cannot do shopping when I am at work (at 74) so Jack Campin and Sandman - I'm sure that we and many other people would have found life in lockdown very difficult without the extraordinary service provided by Amazon!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:18 AM

Not black and white though, is it, Bonzo?

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:33 AM

We have both black and white drivers, some more polite than others.

So the tax question which really winds up lefties - corporation tax is paid on taxable profit. A smart company will set up a holding company in a low tax state. The holding company will charge a royalty on every sale for use of the name Amazon, which under current UK legislation is tax deductible. Get the picture?

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:39 AM

Oh, good, another thread set up for the purpose of arguing. Like we don't have enough of those.

Amazon is what it has become because people use it. I can look at my total purchase history; I first bought books for graduate school there in 1996.

Alabama is, I think, the first state with a warehouse on the cusp of unionizing, and hopefully that will continue. Bezos needs to spread the wealth more equitably and they need to stop with the warehouses run by contractors who hire without having to follow Amazon's rules for other employees and who depress wages to increase their profits. Those who work in the corporate other offices are generally paid well but work very hard until they burnout. Family experience speaks to that.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 09:08 AM

When I am grateful to Amazon it is the worker drones I am thanking, not the executives.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:05 AM

...and as they slam over to an extreme view...well, I'll just ignore it.

I've been thankful for them. Currently, though, I ordered a set of watercolor paints (it's the manufacturer's #3 set)
Thursday, I got a package. Of 3 sets of acrylic paints, manufacturer's #1.
I filled out the thing on Amazon, got the QR code, and on Friday,I drove the wrong ones 20 miles to the UPS store, where they were sent back.
The'd sent the replacement out on Thursday, and on Friday, it arrived.
Guess what - same wrong thing again.
I figure they have someone working in the warehouse (they call it "fulfillment", right?) who can't read very well. One set of No.3 is three sets of No.1, and they don't know the difference between "watercolor" and "acrylic".
I CALLED this last time, and they said they'd elevate the issue, and call me back on Monday.
There's somewhere else I can order the paints I want, if I have to.
Most things I've ordered from them have arrived without mishap. This one is a chance to see how they handle screw-ups.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:14 AM

The most important item we ordered from Amazon was lavatory paper during period when people were panic buying from supermarkets. It's a shame one can't order a haircut from Amazon!!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:33 AM

There is role for Amazon that has not been mentioned yet. They do enable a range of products that really could not readily be sold other than online.

Around a year ago now I bought a 4Tb wireless drive. No local shop could afford to stock such a thing. The demand is too low - they could have it sitting unsold on the shelf for a year - and by the time they are on the point of selling it the customer would find it had been superseded by a 6Tb one for the same price, or maybe the price has fallen below what the local shopkeeper bought it for.

Niche products like that really do not work for local purchasers. As it happened, the manufacturer did not have 'direct sales' to end users either. Even if they had, searching through possible suppliers would have been difficult and risky: do I want to send a fair amount of money to a company I have never heard of?

Amazon has many faults, of course, and the way the treat their staff is a major one. I do not know a good alternative solution for this problem, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:37 AM

Who's "they," Jeri?

I'm not too happy with a lot of what I hear. Amazon, it seems, doesn't always (or at all? I only heard this on the news this morning) directly hire its own delivery drivers, and the companies who run those drivers can be extremely exploitative, to the point of illegality. I think Amazon should be held to account.

Bonzo, I don't understand stuff like corporation tax and, even as one of those lefties you oft disparage, I won't stand too much in judgement of Amazon on that score. However, their reputation is one of professional tax avoidance, as with several other multinationals, that's all I know. We should be concerned about the unlevel playing field apropos of our high streets, shouldn't we? How many charity shops or boarded-up shop windows have you got in Croydon? Plenty here in Bude. Coronavirus is one thing, but vicious competition from online corporations is a longer-running sore.

I use Amazon a lot and I have Prime. We live in a remote area with few big shops unless we drive for forty or fifty miles. That isn't an excuse, as I'm sure I'd still use Amazon wherever I lived. I can't afford to spend my life paying higher prices just on principle. We support our local shops as much as we can and buy from Amazon stuff we can't get locally. I have to admit that Amazon is super-efficient at what it does. I've had several issues with marketplace sellers and fake goods/non-delivery, and Amazon are extremely responsive.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:43 AM

No good asking me anything about Croydon Town Centre, it's a shit hole I avoid like covid!! I can only speak for Addiscombe a little more than a knat's pee away, where there are more charity shops than there were a year ago - all closed at the moment of course!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 10:57 AM

Not you, Steve. Only those who slammed over to an extreme point of view.

I think some folks have old information. I think maybe researching employee satisfaction might br good. I know there was a problem in the spring/early summer when they were hit hard with orders.
They used to have other delivery services deliver their stuff. Now, they have a fleet of trucks (In the US, I don't know if it's the same in the UK). I think it's likely they got things under control.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 11:15 AM

I would think we are witnessing a fundamental change in the nature of shopping. The high street will change beyond all recognition and we will find many shops being changed over to residential use.

On-line purchases will continue to grow and grow and high streets will continue to decline. We just have to get used to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 11:18 AM

Not all they are cracked up to be.
Note today they have taken an official investigator in US to court to try to stop them investigating their ill treatment of employees.
That's another win for the lawyers - it really is Christmas everyday for them - the lawyers.
There are people today getting away with things they would have been jailed and even hung for in wartime.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 11:29 AM

All I can say is that I heard it only this morning. When I come to think of it, my Prime deliveries generally arrive in unmarked vehicles of various shapes and sizes. They don't much look like "official Amazon vans" but I suppose I just haven't remarked on it until today. I suppose it's possible to have an unhypocritical extreme view of Amazon as long as you never use Amazon. I'd love to take an extreme view but that would definitely make me a hypocrite, and I don't think I'd manage too well here without the occasional resort to Amazon, so I'd better be measured. I could feel the same way about Apple, Microsoft, Google, Starbucks, McDonalds, Sky and a whole bunch of others. Actually, I never go in either Starbucks or McDonalds, but if I were to publicly excoriate them I'd have people, perfectly justifiably, asking me why I wasn't also saying the same about Amazon...or Sky...or Google...who are just as bad... Because you use 'em, don't you, Steve?

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 11:41 AM

Amazon drivers do have the annoying habit of just stopping in the middle of the road for a delivery.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 11:53 AM

We haven't got a road.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 12:15 PM

Un-paved road - sounds very middle class!!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 12:33 PM

The store I rarely go to is Walmart, but I suppose, upon examination, Amazon has pretty much done what they did, just Walmart did it earlier. They put small mom-and-pop businesses out of business. They pay so low that most of their employees are eligible for food stamps (SNAP card these days) and they've lowered the average income and economic power of a lot of small towns where they popped up because they are now the only game in town. They negotiated so ruthlessly with companies who were their suppliers that they drove many of them out of business. There used to be a robust Snapper lawnmower and power tool company warehouse near me in Fort Worth, but Walmart kept insisting they have their equipment made more cheaply (and of lower quality materials) in China so Walmart could sell them inexpensively. The company resisted as long as they could before going belly up. Just one of myriad examples.

Amazon CEO soon-to-be-something-else high on the food chain Jeff Bezos bought the Washington Post, and after a generous six month free trial people can subscribe to the digital version for $4 a month. It's a real bargain.   

They do take back returns very easily. I have discovered that if I deliver returns to the desk set up for this in the Kohl's nearby, Kohl's offers me a percent-off coupon to use in the store. I don't shop there often but when I do I've found things I needed (they are like many of the other secondary market stores that seem to get the unsold stuff from big department stores at pennies on the dollar and sell it themselves, like Ross or Belk or TJMax here in the US.)

They have shipped some very large items. I have a "standing" desk that has a sturdy steel base and a good-quality veneered wood table top that I needed help moving into the house (several boxes, shipped flat, and a lot of assembly was required.) Sometimes very small items come in absurdly huge boxes and I've joined folks on Instagram to shame Amazon for such silly shipping.

When researching new purchases I look at Amazon for reviews, but before buying I usually do a Google search to see where it turns up. If it is available locally for a price comparable to the online businesses, I get it locally. I have a number of online places I go to for specific items (like my sewing machine equipment pieces come from SewingPartsOnline.com because they keep high quality stuff in stock and the listings on Amazon are rather haphazard). They also have better prices on thread and their shipping costs are more reasonable than Joann.com. Amazon's thread prices are through the roof, no way I'd buy there.

Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 01:49 PM

Walmart used to be pretty horrible to their employees. They probably aren't great now, but I think they've improved. A funny thing was they opened a new store near here, and shut down other places. Maybe mom & pop stores, but there was a K-Mart that closed. The prices at Walmart were good, then started to rise. A brand new Target opened across the road from Walmart, and their stuff was cheaper.
I gave up. I think Target's prices ar back up, but their sizes cater to smallish teens, and they usually don't have items in all sizes. Plus, both of the stores are a 40-mile round trip.

Amazon takes a bit longer, but I don't have to go anywhere. They cater to my laziness. That works for now, but when I have to actually go places and do things, it's going to be a hard transition.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 01:54 PM

boycott, amazon

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 03:04 PM

boycott boycotts...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 03:10 PM

I recently signed up to AliExpress,
and made a couple of cheap small purchases before and after xmas
to test them out..

Problem free delivery, much quicker than expected from most internet forum chatter I read..

Worth keeping in reserve for musician's stuff Amazon don't list...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 04:26 PM

"boycott, amazon"

how very stupid

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:08 PM

Boycott Geoffrey Boycott. I mean, what an arse. And if Geoffrey Boycott tries to set up a boycott, I say boycott Boycott's boycott...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 06:37 PM

I dropped in to say nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:01 PM

But your quiet eloquence knows no bounds...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 07:45 PM

I joined AliExpress to order specific cheap guitar gear
which Amazon is out of stock of, or overcharges when they do have it.

Since ordering, AliExpress has been sending me emails promoting similar guitar gear..
.. and guns and gun accessories..

Which just shows how much AliExpress's international market profiling
is being skewed by American guitarist customers...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:18 PM

AliExpress - is that part of the huge Chinese company AliBaba? There is such a wide range of stuff quality-wise from them, and shipping, while cheap, can take a very long time. Very long. Maybe it's different from China to the UK. Another "Buyer Beware" situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Feb 21 - 08:34 PM

Yeah.. After reading guitar forum advice about pros and cons
ordering from Ali,
I was expecting to wait months..

Surprised that delivery was no more than a couple of weeks,
both times around xmas...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 08:37 AM

15kg bag of Burns dry dog food delivered yesterday while I was at work. The kind driver pushed it inside our front door!

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Feb 21 - 08:50 AM

Try it with a spicy tomato sauce and a sprinkling of Parmesan is my advice...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 02:02 AM

One of my daughters works for a company that sells online and has reported a strange knock on effect of Brexit. Amazon are now insisting that the vendor pays any duties incurred on sales into Europe from the UK or vice versa. Her company are stopping selling through Amazon. I suspect many more will do the same so expect to see a reduction in choice of items from Europe.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 04:45 AM

bon appetit bonzo mon petit chien

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 05:28 AM

Not Amazon's fault, but for the third time I got a call (this morning, 8am) which is the Amazon Prime scam. The recorded message 'informs' you that the wrong amount for Amazon Prime has been deducted from your bank. "Press 1 to speak to an adviser". If one does, bank details are requested 'to refund the amount'. Of course, they help themselves to your bank account. I have never had Amazon Prime, so I always just replace the receiver.
Pity it's a recorded message, as I'd like to vent my anger at the scammer.
Amazon suggest merely that one informs the relevant Fraud Department of the Police etc. I don't suppose to be fair there is much Amazon themselves can do.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 05:51 AM

I get several of those types of calls every week.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Senoufou
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 07:22 AM

Isn't it annoying Steve? Since my last post, we just got yet another one! Our number is ex-directory and not listed anywhere, so they must be random-dialling.
I'm not sure if BT can block them?

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 07:26 AM

I've got a block button on my phone but they just use different numbers.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Jos
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 08:03 AM

The number on some says 'INTERNATIONAL', but if a number is displayed, it is often fake, using a dialling code that doesn't exist.
Lately I have been getting many calls saying I have ordered an i-pad or similar from Amazon or ebay for a several hundred pounds, which will be taken out of my bank account - I am to 'press 1' if I didn't place the order. They all go to the answering machine. I only answer if I know who is calling.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 09:54 AM

I don't answer the phone unless the call is from someone I know. I've changed the ringtones for numbers I expect might call me. I don't know if I've received any scams about Amazon. They aren't FROM Amazon.

My latest adventure was I ordered something, and they sent the wrong thing. I complained, sent it back, and they sent it again. Both times, I ordered one set #3, and they sent three wrong set #1.
I called, and they said someone would call on Monday.
Come to find out, some idiot had slapped a label for the thing I wanted over the top of the thing it was.
On Monday, they e-mailed me, telling me to leave them my number so they could call.
I was pissed off, and sent them an email. I was surprised to get one back, apologizing, and telling me to keep/give away/donate the wrong paints.
So I have three sets of the wrong paints (which are still nice), and are $40 a set, plus I ordered the correct ones from a different place. If Amazon had replaced them again, I'd still get the wrong ones, because they're mislabeled in their warehouse (or wherever they keep stuff), and they don't seem capable of fixing THAT problem.
Probably, a screw up that won't happen with anything else, but it's annoying they can't do anything about the mislabeling problem.

Now, to find homes for the two unopened sets...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 10:13 AM

"International" can be a warning sign but it can also mean a call from brother in Queensland...

I too got some Acrylic from Amazon the other day too, Jeri, though in my case I wanted it. It sticks pretty well to PLA but, even if I could paint, I'd not be doing a watercolour with it...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 10:54 AM

When I had more spare time..
persistent polite persuasive telephone complaints to Amazon about problem resolution,
got me significant refunds,
and at best some free [expensive] guitars, and an amplifier...

But not needed to complain to that extent for about 4 or 5 years,
so don't know if amazon is still as helpful and generous...

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 05:02 PM

A case of tubes of dog treets arrived today with a huge pack of tea tree wipes, kindly put just inside our front door by the driver.

Subject: RE: BS: Thank goodness for Amazon!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Feb 21 - 05:51 PM

"dog treets"...melt in the mouth, not in your paws...