Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?

Subject: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 05:06 AM

Happy St David's Day, all!

Who are your favourite Welsh folk and traditional musicians?

Though i'd be delighted to be corrected, so far I've been surprised to see how little there seems to be on Topic, compared to the work of Irish and Scottish practitioners; and Folkways doesn't seem much better.

Many thanks in advance for any/all suggestions!!

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 06:51 AM

Cromlech, Plethyn, Mabsant.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 07:53 AM

mabsant do not exist anymore

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 07:56 AM

Gareth Whelan

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 08:00 AM

Thanks all, keep ‘em coming! Also, I’m not only after artists that are still practicing - anything good from the recorded era, especially Welsh equivalents of the sort of stuff Topic or Leader might have released for English, Scottish or Irish exponents

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: leeneia
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 09:55 AM

In the 1990's I attended a session led by Mike Lease and Jane Ridout, who were then in the band called Hin Deg. They are excellent musicians. They had a fine singer named Heather, I think, with them.

My favorite Welsh song is Y Deryn Pur (the pure bird)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFdfZ443A_4

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 11:28 AM

An absolutely beautiful album is Whilia by Fernhill, which features throughout the lovely singing of Julie Murphy, all in Welsh. It took me weeks to get over it!

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 12:01 PM

Intrumental bands of the recentish past: Crasdant, Cilmeri

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 01:44 PM

calennig

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 02:51 PM

There was wealth of recorded material on the (I think) Sian label.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 04:07 PM

John Tose bagpipes

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 04:14 PM

Yscolan by Ceri Rhys Matthews

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 04:19 PM

Christine Cooper

...also I remember the singer Georgia Ruth making interesting traditional folk music but she seems to have moved away towards singer-songwriter territory recently

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,Anne Lister sans cookie
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 04:20 PM

There are lots - current favourites are Nogood Boyo and VRi
And of course I'm in Wales, if not born here at least brought up here, and now back again.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 04:24 PM

Cass Meurig
Oes i Oes

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 01 Mar 21 - 05:45 PM

Many further thanks, all - som great suggestions above;

I note that many of them are relatively recent, or else from the mid-70s to early 80s - can anyone recommend earlier ‘source singers’?

I’ve encountered Phil Tanner - who else should everyone hear?

Are there Welsh counterparts to the McPeakes, the Coppers or the Stewarts? What about a Welsh Jeannie Robertson, Margaret Barry or Phoebe Smith?

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Splott Man
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:11 AM

There are some old recordings in the Wales Museum Song Archive with brief accompanying notes, but it's a start if you want to do further research.

Splott Man

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 05:54 AM

There is a 'just out' video introduction at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoRdSkJLAfw which mentions a couple of early recordings

It also gives a long playlist of short S4C videos of contemporary players some of whom may mention sources.

More videos of contemporary players at https://trac.wales/our-work/taking-part/tune-chain/ The first of which mentions Nansi Richards as a source. IIRC she heard the romany musicians who kept the traditions going.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Charmion
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 11:19 AM

Robin Huw Bowen!

Rambunctious dance music on the triple harp. He talks, too.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 11:33 AM

Seconding Steve Shaw - I love Whilia by Fernhill. Essential listening.

Also, I love the Hwntws' version of Bachgen Bach o Dincer. Total earworm. You were warned.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 02 Mar 21 - 11:36 AM

And thanks for the link Splott Man - I've been having a look now. It's very good.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 01:55 AM

Is it possible that the welsh singing and musical tradtions have been affected by the competitive Eisteddfods.
Phil Tanner one of the most Respected tradtional singers from Wales came from the Gower peninsula, His songs were all in the English language,
"Wales has a strong and distinctive link with music. Singing is a significant part of Welsh national identity, and the country is traditionally referred to as "the land of song". This is a modern stereotype based on 19th century conceptions of Nonconformist choral music and 20th century male voice choirs, Eisteddfodau and arena singing, such as sporting events, but Wales has a history of music that has been used as a primary form of communication.

Historically, Wales has been associated with folk music, choral performance, religious music and brass bands."
Other than Phil Tanner i cannot think of any TRADTIONAL singers, please correct me if i am wrong, this does seem strange ,was it that folk song collectors did not bother to go to Wales , we know that Sharp travelling by bicycle was restricted geographically and financially.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 02:10 AM

Has anyone collected trad welsh musio from PATAGONIA?

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 04:06 AM

Yes, to echo Sandman's comments, I've also often wondered why Phil Tanner is literally the only Welsh traditional singer (with 'source singer'status) I know.

I might do some digging on the British Library sound archives and the above Wales Museum Song Archive and see if anything comes up.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 04:49 AM

was there a prejudice at the time against welsh language songs by collectors and possibly even the EFDSS?
or may be not a prejudice but just an idea that they should be collecting welsh songs in the english language
it does seem that welsh singers tended towards glee and close harmony singing rather than unaccompanied tradtional was this the influence of the eisteddfod, i am not an expert on the subject and if i am showing ignorance on this matter please correct me

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 04:52 AM

did the welsh methodist church or catholic church discourage or suppress traditional song.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 05:07 AM

The Sandman says: "we know that Sharp travelling by bicycle was restricted geographically and financially."

Sure, but that didn't stop him travelling the Appalachians looking for English folk songs. I think he was probably just not particularly interested in Welsh culture, being an English nationalist of sorts. It's the same reason he didn't go to Ireland or Scotland.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 05:12 AM

I believe the above debate (Cecil Sharp and Wales) was discussed in a thread not that long ago. Maybe someone could link to it?

I'd love to hear, as per the original poster's request, about any Welsh source singers other than Phil Tanner. Are there no 20th century field recordings of any Welsh traditional singers and/or musicians?

The usual sources - Topic, Musical Traditions, Veteran - don't have any that I am aware of...

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 05:36 AM

Check out Meredydd Evans.

There was a double CD of him released in 2005, as listed in the above link: Merêd - 'Caneuon Gwerin' (Sain SCD2414).

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,jag
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 05:55 AM

If there were no 'source singers' such as were collected from by Sharp and others had the old songs all been forgotten or, in "the land of song", were they still so widely sung (and maybe written down) that the concept of a source singer was not relevant except for singing style?

The video linked above (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoRdSkJLAfw) has a short section of a pre-WW2 recording of a performer singing 'in his own voice' and then in the style he remembered from his family.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 06:19 AM

sharp was financed by a philanthropist to go to appalachia.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 06:48 AM

In the same way that Pembrokeshire is known as "little England beyond Wales" most of the Gower peninsula was English speaking, the welsh speaking influence coming from the north side.

When I lived there back in the late 70s it was Swansea Jack and Calennig as the local main acts.

Robin

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 07:36 AM

MickTems was he not in both groups, black belt? good singer and box player

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Long Firm Freddie
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 08:34 AM

As requested by Matt, link to previous thread:

Sharp and Wales

LFF

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 10:17 AM

why didnt baring gould collect in Wales , unlike Sharp he was a man of independent means, i know he was busy producing 15 children and doing a lot of praying .
but nobody critises him, yet in this thread Cecil has been described with some impertinence as an english nationalist.
Sharp was not the only collector working around the turn of the 20 century, there was KIDSON BARING GOULD VAUGHAN WILLIAMS to name just a few

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 10:33 AM

Yes Dick, I would be interested to see Mick's take on this subject.

Robin

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 10:42 AM

I am sure there is a source singer from Wales credited by J M Carpenter in his doctoral thesis.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 12:15 PM

Hilarious that the concept of English nationalism has been so debased by right-wing thugs that to accuse Cecil Sharp of it is regarded as 'impertinent'!

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM

guest ra, so do you dismiss baring gould kidson vaughan williams, percy grainger as english nationalists, they did not collect in Wales.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 01:19 PM

Although she died quite young, Siwsann George made one wonderful album. I think there are links to all of it on Youtube.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 01:23 PM

to SPBcOOPERATOR, here is a quoteFinding Aids to Individual Collections in the Archive of Folk Culture
THE JAMES MADISON CARPENTER COLLECTION
AFC 1972/001

Library of Congress
Washington DC
June 1996
SUMMARY

The James Madison Carpenter Collection consists of manuscript materials, sound recordings, and graphic materials that document primarily British and American folk music, dance, and British ritual drama. The materials span the years 1928-55, with some dated 1972 and 1987. The bulk of the material was collected between 1928-35 by Carpenter during fieldwork in England and Scotland; other material was collected in the United States between 1937 and 1941 by Carpenter and his Duke University students. Through this effort, Carpenter amassed a collection of an estimated 1,000 ballad texts and 850 tunes of the Francis Child canon; 500 sea songs (including chanteys); 1,000 other ballads and songs (texts and many tunes) from Britain and America; 200 children's singing games, riddles, and nursery rhymes (texts and many tunes); 300 British folk plays (texts and some tunes); miscellaneous folktales, African- American spirituals, Cornish carols, and so forth; and approximately 500 related photographic images and 40 drawings. The collection was purchased from Carpenter by the Library of Congress in 1972. An oral history interview with the donor in 1972 and subsequent programs based on the materials complement the collection.

Access and Reproduction: Listening and viewing access to the collection is unrestricted. Duplication of the recorded materials may be governed by copyright.

Key Subjects: Afro-American spirituals, ballads, bothy ballads, castles, chanteys, Chedworth, Child ballads, children's games, children's songs, Christmas plays, Cornish carols, dreg songs, English Folk Dance Society, English folk plays, Hadrian's Wall, Helston Furry dance, mummers' plays, May Day festivals, morris dance, Pace Eggers, ritual drama, Roman baths, songs, Stonehenge, sword dance, wassailers

Primary Languages: English, Gaelic, Scottish
NO MENTION OF WALES, BUT I AM NOT AN EXPERT SO I COULD BE WRONG

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 01:57 PM

I don't dismiss anyone for focusing on collecting in England, The Sandman. Neither do I dismiss Hamish Henderson for only collecting in Scotland. It's understandable that researchers want to, indeed have to focus on a particular area. This is not a dismissal or a negative criticism. Stop picking fights where there are none to pick, please.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 02:16 PM

It was you that said sharp was an english nationlist , i am pointing out he was no diferent from baring gould, kidson, vaughan williams and percy grainger other folk song collector
Stop picking fights where there are none to pick, please.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 02:18 PM

be k8ind to Cecil , unlike baring gould he didnt have a wife he only had a bike

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 02:27 PM

yea Siwsann George lovely singer

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 03:06 PM

Put down the bottle, man!

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Mar 21 - 03:26 PM

HAHA I am not drinking anything other than tea

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Splott Man
Date: 06 Mar 21 - 06:00 AM

Carpenter did indeed collect in Wales, notably two retired seamen in Barry, who sang him some shanties. Mudcat's Dr Price could fill in more detail on this as he has spoken to at least one of them, and does sing some of them.

Splott Man

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: clueless don
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 06:16 AM

Many years ago, when I used to listen to Fiona Ritchie's Thistle and Shamrock radio show, Ms. Ritchie played some instrumental music (dance music) that she identified as Welsh. I remember the name of the group, but I don't know how to spell it! If I were to spell it phonetically, it would be "Alley Grogan". Anybody know anything about this group?

Don

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 06:39 AM

Not Welsh, but I feel like I should mention the singer May Bradley (just because she's really good). From the Welsh borders, which you can certainly hear in her accent.
May Bradley

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 09:05 AM

Hi all, very interesting discussion, thank you -

Some of the points made are similar to things that had occurred to my own fancy - most of the stuff I could find on record - through SAIN, etc - seemed quite mannered, like it had been passed trough a mid-20th C Welsh version of Cecil Sharp's genteel, attenuating Edwardian arrangements.

Prompted by the above reference to Hamish Henderson, I was really keen to see if there was an equivalent 20th C Welsh equivalent to him, Peter Kennedy, etc - someone very focused on capturing field recordings.

It seems like David Roy Saer may be that figure - he seems to have conducted prodigious, dedicated fieldwork in Wales from the 1960s onwards:

https://museum.wales/collections/folksongs/?action=background

...in the employment of the Welsh Folk Museum (Now St Fagans), and also under the influence of the Welsh Folk Song Society (he ultimately became the President in 2000).

Check out some of the songs available here - Bertie Stephens' 'The Black Mare' blew my socks off!!

https://museum.wales/collections/folksongs/


This is **exactly** the sort of thing I was looking for - and it looks like there's plenty more to explore. Also want to learn more about Ty Siamas, the centre for Welsh music:

https://tysiamas.cymru/en/home

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Mar 21 - 06:54 PM

I attended a house concert by Dafydd Iwan in the early 70s in Wash DC. He sang well and explained many of the sources. I wish there had been more like him.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Mar 21 - 09:31 AM

Some of the Carpenter's informants:

Edwards Ashbury? - Swansea
Richard Warner - Cardiff
Hefrum Methias - Cardiff - contributed "Chester Commodore" which Carpenter annotates as (Welsh Song).
Capt.Jack Harris - Swansea.

However the collected songs - for Carpenter's Doctorial Thesis were all in English.

I think Mick Tems did some work bringing some of their songs to public performance.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,ottery
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 04:45 AM

Last night I was lucky enough to be in the audience for a Zoom concert by Owen Shiers. He sang Welsh songs from Ceredigion from his album Cynefin, including one of my favourite trad Welsh ballads Dole Teifi. It was great. Hopefully one day, when the plague's buggered off, I'll be able to see him perform live.

Subject: RE: Favourite Welsh folk/trad musicians?
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 08:07 AM

How are the Welsh Folk Music Band "AR LOG" graded by Welsh Folk Music enthusiasts ?