Trad Songs That are not frequently sung

Subject: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 03:25 PM

Trad songs that are not as frequently sung, [in my experience] as they were 50 to 60 years ago. Firelock Stile, Basket of Eggs, Furze Field Fathom the Bowl,Drink Old England Dry. Lord Thomas and Fair Eleanor. any more suggestions

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 04:10 PM

Fathom the Bowl is still well-aired in Hull. At least 3 of us sing it.

Sportsmen arise.
Dockyard Gate.

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 05:21 PM

I sing Dockyard Gate[ The version collected by Kidson

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 06:08 PM

Slightly amusing story re Dockyard Gate. I don't get into folk clubs very often but about 5 years ago I went into the local club and one of my old mates sang 'Dockyard Gate'. I said to him, "Oh that's similar to the version I used to sing in the 60s. Where did you get it from?" His answer, "Off you, you daft bugger!"

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: rich-joy
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 08:29 PM

FWIW, Fathom the Bowl, Drink Old England Dry, Sportsmen Arise - all popular Down Under (or were up to 10 years ago! :)

Cheers, R-J

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: r.padgett
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 04:20 AM

Many still in my repertoire

Ray

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 04:51 AM

The Nutting Girl.The Spotted Cow

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 05:07 AM

If a song is infrequently sung, can it correctly be regarded as traditional?

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 05:55 AM

I've heard Fathom the Bowl a few times over the last few years. Especially at the more chorus-friendly singarounds. I would say I hear it as often as songs like Let Union Be - that bunch of 'everybody have a drink or two in the spirit of conviviality' songs. Much missed in covid times!

I'm not surprised you don't hear Firelock Stile or Furze Field all that often, can't see the appeal in them myself.

Lord Thomas & Fair Eleanor is a good one to raise. I "think" I've heard it at singarounds, or a version of it, but I may just be imagining that as it's a song you inevitably end up reading fairly frequently when browsing songbooks.

'Twankydillo' is a song I've sung a few times at singarounds and had a few older people comment they'd not heard it sung for decades. Probably cos of the silly sounding word.

I remember going to a singaround pre-lockdown that happened to take place 'the week before Easter'. And we ended up with 4 different versions of that song being sung, due to latecomers not knowing that others had already sung it earlier. They couldn't understand why some people were trying hard to suppress giggles when they started singing the first line... It reminded me strongly of a PG Wodehouse Jeeves & Wooster story with a similar situation.

I'd be interested to hear of any traditional songs that nobody has EVER heard anyone sing? (Not counting 40+ verse ballads, for obvious reasons)

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 06:51 AM

hug of lincoln is avoided [i think because of its anti semitic overtones.
yes, guest ra
wellboth furze field and firelock stile have good tunes imo, but imo there are better double entendre songs, but this is not about individual taste but more about changes in the uk folk revival, imo this includes less trad songs being sung and more self composed songs sung. i also hear more parodies being sung, than 50 years ago

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 09:20 AM

Hugh of Lincoln is one I've been thinking about recently. I bought the Marrow Bones/Southern Songster/Wanton Seed/Southern Harvest songbooks over Christmas and have been learning many songs from them.

I can't remember which book it's in, but there's a version of Little Sir Hugh in there, collected from a Hampshire singer, which has no references to Jewishness at all. So if someone were unaware of the song's wider history and they picked up that book and learned that version, for them that song would have no anti-semitic assosiations.
(Course, it'd still be a gruesome song about child murder)

That prompted me to look at other versions of the song. Almost all of them have two references to Jewishness - two lines, And both of them could very easily have the reference expunged.

For many singers, I think even a revised version of the song (or non-revised in the case of oral tradition versions that do not mention Jewishness) is still too tainted by association with anti-semitism. But it raises interesting questions on whether recuperability is possible or not.

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 01:29 PM

i agree Matt that would be the sensible thing to do. two more songs the barley and the rye[from harry cox] ,and in bruton town or bramble briar[ an excellent story] i have not heard frequently.

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 01:50 PM

Matt, it's in Southern Songster, the latest volume. Twas me who expurgated the racism. I wouldn't normally tamper with tradition, but as you both rightly say, I think in this case it was justified. The operation is fully explained in the notes, so history is not really compromised. Being aware of the history of racism is as important as opposing it when it raises its ugly head.

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 01:59 PM

Don't play marbles with father's glasseye- he needs it to look for work    - haven't heard that for a while

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 03:42 PM

on further reflection about firelock stile,it is a perfectly well written song about the dangers of getting a dose of venereal disease, it has a good tune, it is not a double entendre the .general interpretation of that genre.
FIRELOCK STILE

So come all young men, come listen awhile,
I'll tell you what happened at Firelock Stile,
When a stump of a nail catched hold of her clothes
She fell down, and did expose
Her old Rump-a-tump tooral looral laddiedy
Rump-a-tump tooral looral day.

A gay young buck was standing by
The sight of her quim so dazzled his eye
She said "Young man, I feel amazed
To see a young gentleman stand and gaze
At my Rump-a-tump tooral looral laddiedy
Rump-a-tump tooral looral day."

She said "Young man, if you mean what you say
And twenty bright guineas in gold were to pay,
If twenty bright guineas in gold you did pay,
Then, young man, you can fiddle away
On my Rump-a-tump tooral looral laddiedy
Rump-a-tump tooral looral day."

That very soon he gave consent
And into the woods together they went
While he pre-formed and she pre-tuned
The boy and the beauty kept time to the tune
on her Rump-a-tump tooral looral laddiedy
Rump-a-tump tooral looral day.

Now six weeks being over, as I have been told
She gave him some fire to keep him from cold,
To keep him from cold, both night and day,
And he cursed the young damsel that learned him to play
On her Rump-a-tump tooral looral laddiedy
Rump-a-tump tooral looral day.

Now all young men, come listen awhile
I've told you what happened at Firelock Stile
Or else, like me, you'll rue the day
You go into the woods to learn to play
On her Rump-a-tump tooral looral laddiedy
Rump-a-tump tooral looral day.

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: vectis
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 10:13 PM

This looks like a varient and extension of Thomas D'Urfy's Clowns Courtship.

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: r.padgett
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 05:00 PM

Firelock Stile I think was sung by Ewan MacColl~ rather rude one

Ray

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: RTim
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 05:07 PM

Surely - this is a Never Ending Question.........??

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Trad Songs That are not frequently sung
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Mar 21 - 05:20 PM

Not just trad songs, but others as well: "what goes round comes around" - you haven't heard a particular song for maybe 30-40 years, then all of a sudden everyone's singing it again - maybe because some young person has picked it up and recorded it.
Have just heard Gordon Lightfoot's "In the Early Morning Rain" twice in one day on 2 different Zoom sessions after years of not hearing it.