Subject: Folklore: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 07:40 AM Here is a list of the 30 "full-length" songs Edward D. Sandy Ives attributes to Northeast North American songwriter Larry Gorman (1846-1917) in his 1964 book "The Man Who Made The Songs." Although lots of information about Gorman is available online I have yet to see a list of his works. Gorman wrote more than these 30 and many of his tunes survive in fragment form or even just reputation (with no tune or lyric recalled). 1. The Shan Van Vogh 2. Bachelor's Hall 3. The Horse's Confession 4. The Gull Decoy 5. Michael Riley/Mick Riley 6. The Baptists 7. Michael McElroy 8. Michael O'Brien 9. Dame Bruin 10. The Winter of '73 11. Morris Ellsworth 12. The Scow On Cowden Shore 13. Mary Mahoney 14. Young Billy Crane 15. Barren Town/Byrontown 16. Donahue's Spree 17. Roderick McDonald 18. The Union River Drivers 19. Bill Watts 20. The Champion of Moose Hill 21. Myles Everett More 22. The Good Old State Of Maine 23. Tomah Stream 24. The Workman 25. The Old Pod Auger Days 26. The Hoboes Of Maine 27. The Boys of The Island 28. Beaver Jack 29. Away To The States To Get Rich 30. The Song Of All Songs |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: Dave Hanson Date: 23 Apr 21 - 08:39 AM If number one is supposed to say, The Sean Bean Bocht, pronounced The Shan Van Vocht, he didn't write that, it's Irish traditional. Dave H |
Subject: RE: Folklore: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 09:28 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZLo3o_BoMU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZLo3o_BoMU The Shan Van Vogh was a parody. I've never heard the original, so perhaps one of you could remark on whether it is or not. |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 09:35 AM Yes, the "Shan Van Vogh" is a parody of the Irish tune. The version linked above, by John Cousins, is a 9 verse rendition of the original 20+ verse song. |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Apr 21 - 09:36 AM I'd say this thread would be a good place for posting lyrics of Larry Gorman's songs. The University of Maine has a fascinating page titled The Life and Songs of Larry Gorman. Be sure to take a look. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 09:46 AM Some remarks about Larry (Lawrence) Gorman from the Dictionary of Canadian Biography (1959). http://www.biographi.ca/en/bio/gorman_lawrence_14E.html |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 09:54 AM https://umaine.edu/folklife/what-we-do/programs-and-events/maine-song-and-story-sampler-map/places/hope-river-pei-the-boys-of-the-island/ The authorship of the song "The Boys of the Island" is contested somewhat, but lyrics and a vocal are available at that link. |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:11 AM Several songs attributed to Gorman are likely not actually written by him. That's one of the issues with ascribing songs many years after their composition and without printed, authoritative sources. Because Gorman was the most recognized songwriter in certain regions songs would be attributed to him out of ignorance. It's unfortunate and a bane to the researcher but it is all we can know at this late date. Gorman printed and sold his songs and there were many stories of folks owning many but no one kept them. Ives only found 2 printed Gorman songs, and from one of Gorman's nephews. Otherwise they were recalled/sung by elders in the communities. Some of Gorman's songs had been printed in books prior to Ives' research but the most of them he had to find in the field. Yes, Joe, I believe I will add Gorman lyrics in this thread. Many have not been transcribed from the books and are still not available online anywhere. |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:19 AM Thanks for the info, Mike. Question: Do you want any help on this stuff? If so, what would be the best way to assist you? (If not, that's ok, too.) |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:27 AM Yes, Guest, please feel free to add Gorman lyrics if you like. I will add some as well. If you have the Gorman book they contain them all. Many transcriptions were done from the recordings of folklorists "from the field". In those instances I'd like to do text comparisons if there's several recordings/texts(like I did with "The Gull Decoy" but there's room for everything. The thread may get unwieldy but that's ok! Thk you for the offer. |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:30 AM DAME BRUIN Larry Gorman) One night as Dame Bruin she went to her bed She scarce had retired to her pillow When the Masculine voice, she heard close to her head Of Satan - That nasty old fellow, She spied old King Satan, so hairy and black With a long claw and foot, and a hump on his back Saying - Let you be sleeping or be you awake, You must rise, and come with me, Dame Bruin. Poor Bruin arose with a terrible yell She asked - Is that you old King Satan? He says it is I - You know very well And this long time for you I've been waiting. Once to spare you - it was my intent, But now I see plainly - You'll never repent And now to take you I am fully bent. So Hasten! Make ready - Dame Bruin. Poor Bruin was now in a terrible stew Her screams they were loud & alarming. Oh spare me! Oh spare me! For one year or two Until I have revenge upon Gorman. With him I've had dealings, he thus did me wrong He has hurt my feelings, and has made a song. But I hope I shall catch him before very long If you will but spare me, King Satan. He says all your pleadings of no use shall be To take you this long time I've intended. But each time I came for you, you had some excuse. But still you have never repented. Your time is being up now a long time it's true. This is the fourth time I have come for you And out of sheer pity each time let you go. But I'll spare you no longer Dame Bruin. She says when I'm there - Shall I live by my trade? Or shall I have a situation? No, shovelling brimstone with a short handled spade He said shall be your occupation. You will find nothing there but hardship and toil. Fire, smoke, brimstone, and Kerosene oil, And cold tar at your nose, shall so furiously boil. I will not deceive you Dame Bruin. She says to King Satan where I shall be there I fear that I shall be lonesome But as for the shovelling I don't at all care To the same, I am quite well accustomed. For I buried Gorman as you read in his song And six years ago I have buried my young If it had been proved for the same I'd been hung, But no one could prove it, said Bruin. He said if you handle your spade pretty fair It will be a great deal in your favour And I'll guarantee all the time you are there That you never shall want for a Neighbor And when you all get together you'll have glorious fun, There'll be Monaghans, streals, yourself and old Dunn. Each one with a club smashing brimstone To keep you a' shovelling Dame Bruin. Now the next time I come, I'll have you to mind By no one shall I be prevented In order that you shall be easy to find, My mark on your rump. I shall print it. Before I come for you, I'll give the alarm. Nine days before, there shall be a great storm So Farewell for this time Dame Bruin. MORE INFO HERE https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=169660 |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:37 AM I'm posting this link (The Horse's Confession) so as not to lose it. Lyrics appear on the screen as the song is sung. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H13qcZRPfpo |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:38 AM THE GULL DECOY (Larry Gorman) I'm an Irishman from the County Kerry Oh and Patrick Riley it is my name I was bred and born in that land so merry I was noted for many's the deed of fame When I first came out land was of little value Two hundred acres I did procure And to West Point I went a-courtin' And fell in love with one Peggy Stewart I being so neat, so genteel in acting and in my head such a piercing eye Oh her old parents were so delighted She fell in love with the Gull Decoy At that time I was much respected by every man, woman, girl or boy But it is of late I've been much dejected To hear them call me the Gull Decoy I raised my children to my own notions My eldest son, I called him Ike I have been careful to give him tuition To drink and swear and to kick and fight Until one day we got in a tussle 'Twas then his mettle I meant to try But he knocked me down and he did me guzzle He chewed the thumb of the Gull Decoy I have no books or I have no papers I have no money to win or lose But every Sunday when I get up I run about for to hear the news On Sunday morning I get my breakfast I then run up to my son Pat's I stay with him 'til I get my dinner And then go down to my nephew Matt's His aged uncle, he does me honour The very moment he does me espy He goes in the room and brings out the papers And reads the news to the Gull Decoy He then commences his Evening's Progress The "Miscellaneous" which I love the best He reads The Journal, The Herald and Progress The Island Argus and all the rest I then run home fully delighted Fully determined to win my post I fear I never will be benighted And in the bush might meet a ghost There's things on Earth if I should meet them My heart and conscience would terrify Revenge they'd have and I could not beat them Perhaps they'd murder the Gull Decoy My oldest brother I did him torture I tortured him till he had to fly All on account of the girl he married And still in anger I did rage To the place where his child was buried I went by night and dug up the grave Of all my actions and my bad doings I set a dog on an orphan boy And many the other cruel and dirty action Which adds more grief to the Gull Decoy Since that time I am much rejected Sometimes I'm sorry for leaving my home I have by some been accused of murder And was expelled from the Church of Rome From her Communion I am restricted I think of it every time I pass From all her rites I'm interdicted It's been forty years since I went to Mass When I stand up and begin to whistle You see all the gulls around me fly And at my feet they seem to nestle That's why they call me the Gull Decoy When I am dead and my friends all 'round me There'll be no tears but a sob and sigh But all their tears will be unavailing For none can pray for the Gull Decoy Like a horse they bury the Gull Decoy [Verses and lines chosen by M Dixon from 6 sources] |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:51 AM I don't have the Gorman book, so anything I do find will have to come from online resources. I'll try not to duplicate any of your work. |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:55 AM Thank you, Guest. Here is a YouTube playlist I am compiling of recordings of Gorman's material. Larry Gorman YouTube Songs https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6T4J1-jdPnpxBC5pk9BhkaGG4_sOq1T5 |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 10:59 AM https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/songstorysamplercollection/7/ "The Champion of Moose Hill" Lyrics are at that site along with some history of the song. However, the lyrics will require some 'clean-up' due to the way they are printed at that site. |
Subject: ADD: The Shan Van Vogh From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 11:43 AM THE SHAN VAN VOGH (Larry Gorman, c. 1860s, Tyne Valley, PEI) I am getting very gaunt, said the Shan Van Vogh Of provisions I am scant, said the Shan Van Vogh When Forbes will come here, it's the very place we'll steer, We'll get everything we want, said the Shan Van Vogh. I wonder when we'll start, said the Shan Van Vogh I wish he would be smart, said the Shan Van Vogh My provisions getting scarce, and with hunger I am fierce I am keen to make a start, said the Shan Van Vogh. Such parties as we owe, said the Shan Van Vogh We'll not pretend to know, said the Shan Van Vogh We'll give them just a nod, when we meet them on the road Whilst to Forbes we'll go, said the Shan Van Vogh. We must keep our secrets dark, said the Shan Van Vogh If we want to make our mark, said the Shan Van Vogh To handle our cards well, a good story we must tell We'll promise hemlock bark, said the Shan Van Vogh. We'll promise him a sleigh, said the Shan Van Vogh And half a ton of hay, said the Shan Van Vogh We'll promise him some meat, some barley and some wheat Just before we run away, said the Shan Van Vogh. I've just come in to deal, said the Shan Van Vogh Have you any indian meal, said the Shan Van Vogh I mean to pay you soon by the latter end of June With a carcass of fresh veal, said the Shan Van Vogh. I came down to get some oil, said the Shan Van Vogh I'm afraid my boots will spoil, said the Shan Van Vogh And it is my husband's wish I'd come down and get a fish I can either fry or boil, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want some cotton spools, said the Shan Van Vogh And a set of candle moulds, said the Shan Van Vogh I'll pay you with the hide of the little bull that died All full of warble holes, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want a pair of boots, said the Shan Van Vogh If the payment only suits, said the Shan Van Vogh A pair both good and strong, I'll pay you before long My husband's digging roots, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want to get a hood, said the Shan Van Vogh Have you any very good, said the Shan Van Vogh I want a bunch of tape, and I'd like a bonnet shape And some extract of logwood, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want a yard of crepe, said the Shan Van Vogh Some matches and a pipe, said the Shan Van Vogh You'll have no need to fret, for your pay you're sure to get When the berries will get ripe, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want some yellow dye, said the Shan Van Vogh And some concentrated lye, said the Shan Van Vogh I have no money now, I give my solemn vow But I'll pay you bye and bye, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want a new tea tray, said the Shan Van Vogh If you'll trust me for the pay, said the Shan Van Vogh If I am only on my legs, I will bring you down some eggs When the hens begin to lay, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want to get a hat, said the Shan Van Vogh With the crown perfectly flat, said the Shan Van Vogh I want some kerosene, and a package of Roseine To dye rags for a mat, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want to get a broom, said the Shan Van Vogh And I want a fine tooth comb, said the Shan Van Vogh With some manilla rope, and a cake of toilet soap And a bottle of perfume, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want some cotton tweed, said the Shan Van Vogh And an ounce of turnip seed, said the Shan Van Vogh I want a lamp and flue, and I'd like a box of blue And I think that's all I need, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want some cotton print, said the Shan Van Vogh If you'll only give consent, said the Shan Van Vogh I am now in great distress, for I want a flashy dress To attend the Sacrament, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want a pound of tea, said the Shan Van Vogh If we only can agree, said the Shan Van Vogh I want two water pails, and a pound of shingle nails, And that will do for me, said the Shan Van Vogh. I want a mustard can, said the Shan Van Vogh And I want a frying pan, said the Shan Van Vogh Some sugar and some rice, some soda and some spice Some pickles and cayenne, said the Shan Van Vogh I want a water jug, said the Shan Van Vogh And I want a chamber mug, said the Shan Van Vogh I am troubled this last year, with one that's got no ear And it's awkward for to lug, said the Shan Van Vogh Now tell me what is due, said the Shan Van Vogh I hope you will not sue, said the Shan Van Vogh Just run up my account and tell me the amount That's all I ask of you, said the Shan Van Vogh. |
Subject: RE: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 02:20 PM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ92PmW5hQQ Sung there by James Brown. It's also located at https://digitalcommons.library.umaine.edu/songstorysamplercollection/14/ |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 23 Apr 21 - 04:20 PM The Old Pod Auger Days, Old Pod-Auger Times https://peachamlibrary.org/about-peacham-library/history/bicentennial-celebration/old-pod-auger-times/ Note to self: check for connection to Gorman's song. Pod Auger Times thread (click) |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,M Dixon Date: 23 Apr 21 - 06:57 PM Thank you for the links; yes the Gorman tune "The Old Pod Auger Days" seems to be based on the same theme and rhyme as "The Old Pod-Auger Times". I will add Gorman's version soon. |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Apr 21 - 08:53 AM Please note that the following is a poem as per p.4 http://vre2.upei.ca/islandmagazine/fedora/repository/vre%3Aislemag-batch2-213/OBJ "Away to the States to Get Rich" Young men of P.I.[sic], you can hardly deny That you've many times left a good home; A life on the farm for you has no charm, You all seemed determined to roam, Your harrows and plows, fine horses and cows And your sheep all may die in the ditch; Your jobs you will jack and your trunks you will pack And away to the States to get rich. They must be content in some leaky old rent Away in behind someone's back yard; Mid the squealing of hogs and the yelping of dogs, There's many who'd think their lot hard. When the acid and bleach their vitals will reach, With rosin and sulphur and pitch, They will sneeze and say 'twas a sorrowful day That they came to the States to get rich. It's many a year since I first landed here, Being then in my youth and my prime; Though sorely belied and much vilified, I was never convicted of crime. I am broke down in health and possess little wealth, In every trade there's a hitch; Those folks who have wealth must acquire it by stealth— It's not by hard work they get rich. |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Apr 21 - 09:10 AM "Bachelor's Hall" by Gorman is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WISq3FQiLEs NB Not to be confused with a song of the same name done by Simpson, Prior, et.al. |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Apr 21 - 09:16 AM Ives' "Drive Dull Care Away" I haven't looked through it as yet, but don't want to lose it, so I'm posting the link here. https://books.google.ca/books?id=WNNwgB4d7PgC&pg=PA86#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://books.google.ca/books?id=WNNwgB4d7PgC&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=Mick+Riley,+larry+Gorman&source=bl&ots=Wl6j1VqQhU&sig=ACfU3U3Fr4sjogH5i7UaCLc1-FkvOL-N6Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjp_YDH-pbwAhXdKVkFHRZYC-gQ6AEwEXoECBwQAw#v=onepage&q=Mick%20Riley%2C%20larry%20Gorman&f=false |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: meself Date: 24 Apr 21 - 10:44 AM Re: 'P.I.'. In Gorman's day, it was, apparently, the usual short form, rather than P.E.I. |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Apr 21 - 10:54 AM Thanks, meself. |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Apr 21 - 11:48 AM "The Baptists" by Larry Gorman There came to us a patron saint, His name was Mr. Gordon; Against him we’ll make no complain, For we must go accordin’. He saw that we were all astray, And he came here to guide us; If we his rules should disobey He tells us woe betide us. To be dipped! To be dipped! ‘Tis enough to kill one! To think that we would all be dipped In Ebenezer’s mill pond. Here comes this holy man of God, Gathering up his lost ones, Preaching to his famous squad, The Morrills and the Crossmans. The Baptists they are very thick, They think they have the right time; They raise from every bush you kick, Especially in the night-time. To be dipped! To be dipped! ‘Tis enough to kill one! To think that we would all be dipped In Ebenezer’s mill pond. The Baptists they’re a nervy crew When they do get together, Stemming out to cold Nauvoo Despite cold wind and weather. On Sunday evening [the girls] go to church Escorted by their father, But on the way returning home A young man they would rather. To be dipped! To be dipped! ‘Tis enough to kill one! To think that we would all be dipped In Ebenezer’s mill pond. from p.18 at https://umaine.edu/folklife/wp-content/uploads/sites/312/2010/08/LarryGormanPanels.pdf along with some history about the song. |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Apr 21 - 03:49 PM Michael McElroy by LG: Note there are two stanzas there. I could only see the first page @ https://www.jstor.org/stable/835562?seq=1 |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: mg Date: 24 Apr 21 - 04:09 PM i am guessing from one of his songs he was a kerryman. did he emigrate or was he born here. I have friends who are looking for Gormans from the Dingle Peninsula. mg |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: meself Date: 24 Apr 21 - 09:03 PM From a site linked to in one of the other recent threads: "Thomas Gorman, Larry’s father, was born in Kilkenny, Ireland, around 1796." Thomas's wife was "born in Ireland". Larry was born in Prince Edward Island. |
Subject: ADD: The Winter of '73 (Larry Gorman) From: GUEST,# Date: 25 Apr 21 - 02:38 PM "The Winter of '73" by Larry Gorman It being early in September in eighteen seventy-three, ‘Twas the day I left my native isle and came to Miramichi; I hired the day I landed for to work in Snowball’s mill, A large three-story building at the foot of Sawdust Hill. I worked away for three long weeks with a discontented will, But I soon made my acquaintance with the folks of Sawdust Hill; On the tenth day of November when the mill it did shut down, Which caused a general scatter and the men go walking ‘round. I heard of those who wanted men, and it put me in good cheer, And I packed my kennebecker and for Indiantown did steer. When I arrived at Indiantown being quite fatigued from tramp, I fell in with two portage teams bound for McCullam camp; They said that I might ride with them, that’s if I did desire, And that if I would come along, they thought I would get hired. Oh I rode with Willy Derringham, a verse for him I’ll make; He drove a team of ro-uns [i.e. roans] that he brought from the Grand Lake. The horse he weighed twelve hundred pounds, a noble beast to haul, And the mare she was a beauty, although she was but small. Now I being at my journey’s end, and hungry, tired, and cold, The face of Billy O’Brien was the first I did behold; And so glad was I to see him, and I asked who was the boss; He pointed to a little man whose name was Charlie Cross. So I hired the next morning and concluded for to stop; Along with Joseph Fullyerton they sent me for to chop. Charlie Cross and Guy McCullam they both cruised the woods all round, And thought they might do better down in MacIneary’s Ground. So we all packed up quite early and that place we did forsake, And moved out to another camp situated by a lake; Along with Archie Woodworth there, a silly young gaw-gaw, They placed me on the landing for to haul a cross-cut saw. There was one big Island man along among the rest, Two feet across the shoulders, in proportion ‘round the breast; He was very big but not awful cute, Jim Whelan was his name; On the second of March he cut his foot and he marched off downstream. He took with him five pound of gum [i.e. spruce gum] their favors for to gain But all the thanks he got for it, they said that he was green. He blowed the roost upon me and he said I’d made a song, And proved me out a traiteer [i.e. traitor] for which many the man was hung. Now we being there and set to work, good lumber which we found. The spruce they stood in bunches, they were handsome, stout, and sound; But Guy not yet being satisfied, at Charlie Cross did say, And he says, “We must forsake this place, there’s no use for two-sleighs.” It being on our way a-going out past Barney Taylor’s camp, I fell in with Patrick McLaughlin and I hired for to swamp; For to work for Patrick McLaughlin, ‘tis very hard they say, For there’s only three men to a team and they drive ten turns a day. So now the crowd has all gone out and I’m left to watch the camp, And the martins and the lucifees [i.e. loup-cervier] go skipping o’er the swamp; The cruel winter is over and thank God I’m still alive, And if the weather proves favorable I mean to stay up and drive. So now to conclude and finish as my ballad I must end, I hope I have said nothing wrong to those shantyboys offend; When those logs are in the Southwest Boom I hope youse all to see; Some will go to Andy Conners’ and have a glorious spree. ***************************************************** The above is a c/p from https://umaine.edu/folklife/wp-content/uploads/sites/312/2010/08/LarryGormanPanels.pdf |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: GUEST,# Date: 25 Apr 21 - 02:48 PM Dang I put two separate stanzas together. Sorry. There should be a break between the following two lines, the first which ends a stanza and the second which starts a stanza. And he says, “We must forsake this place, there’s no use for two-sleighs.” It being on our way a-going out past Barney Taylor’s camp, |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: meself Date: 25 Apr 21 - 03:30 PM Incidentally, Sandy Ives, in his book about Gorman, reported that Gorman was not known to be a particularly enthusiastic worker. No saying I blame him, mind. |
Subject: RE: ADD: Larry Gorman's Songs From: mg Date: 26 Apr 21 - 12:03 AM seem to have been a lot of jimmy whalens in those lumber camps. |
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