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Zoom Etiquette

The Sandman 14 May 21 - 03:04 AM
Manitas_at_home 14 May 21 - 03:31 AM
Acorn4 14 May 21 - 04:37 AM
Joe Offer 14 May 21 - 05:40 AM
Tattie Bogle 14 May 21 - 08:55 PM
SPB-Cooperator 15 May 21 - 01:25 AM
The Sandman 15 May 21 - 03:30 AM
Acorn4 15 May 21 - 04:26 AM
leeneia 16 May 21 - 03:24 PM
Felipa 16 May 21 - 04:15 PM
The Sandman 16 May 21 - 04:53 PM
mg 17 May 21 - 10:28 PM
GerryM 18 May 21 - 03:43 AM
SPB-Cooperator 18 May 21 - 11:29 AM
mg 18 May 21 - 12:02 PM
Reinhard 18 May 21 - 01:26 PM
Felipa 18 May 21 - 01:39 PM
mg 18 May 21 - 04:04 PM
GerryM 18 May 21 - 06:58 PM
Joe Offer 18 May 21 - 11:51 PM
Tattie Bogle 19 May 21 - 06:13 PM
GUEST,The Man from UNCOOL 19 May 21 - 10:50 PM
Mo the caller 22 May 21 - 11:33 AM
SPB-Cooperator 23 May 21 - 04:27 AM
GUEST 23 May 21 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,mg 24 May 21 - 11:18 PM
Joe_F 25 May 21 - 05:40 PM
GUEST,mg 25 May 21 - 06:05 PM
Joe_F 26 May 21 - 06:49 PM
Tattie Bogle 26 May 21 - 08:07 PM
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Subject: Zoom Etiquette
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 May 21 - 03:04 AM

Suggestions?
some time ago I was present when a performer singing a serious song was interrupted by a whistler, it was not a wolf whistle.[ no names no packdrill
obviously, at a live gig this would be out of order, how is this sort of tom foolery best dealt with?


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 14 May 21 - 03:31 AM

The session host could just mute the offender, maybe even disconnect them?


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Acorn4
Date: 14 May 21 - 04:37 AM

The host should be respoonsible for muting - it' possible to appoint a co-host that can do this.

Sometimes people just forget to mute or are new to Zoom - it does take a couple of sessions to get acclimatised.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 21 - 05:40 AM

It's best to have at least one co-host at a Zoom Singaround, and everyone but the singer should be muted. It's tough for one host to manage the logistics AND watch the muting. At the Mudcat Singaround, we have three or more cohosts.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 14 May 21 - 08:55 PM

It becomes even more tricky if you are using “share screen” to show music scores or lyric sheets, as then you will only be able to see a few participants at a time down the side of the screen. If there are persistent offenders who regularly fail to mute themselves then the best option is for the host to mute everyone (oh, the power!) and then ask the performer to unmute him/herself.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 May 21 - 01:25 AM

One thing that gets my goat - not in social gatherings such as singarounds but in formal meetings where participants should be focussing on the business in hand is where people abuse the chat function to have meetings within meetings. This happens a lot in political party meetings - sometimes using the function to 'shout down' the chair.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 May 21 - 03:30 AM

Manitas, i am with you disconnect them, beam them off scotty, they are life but not as we know it.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Acorn4
Date: 15 May 21 - 04:26 AM

A couple of weeks back The Young 'Uns did an online Zoom which involved over 900 screens - this meant 35 separate pages of screens - the host and co-hosts managed to keep things going without any interruptions from unmuted people.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: leeneia
Date: 16 May 21 - 03:24 PM

I want to to share some thoughts on the general topic of Zoom etiquette.

I belong to an upscale organization which provides scholarships for music students, and recently our annual fund-raising "luncheon" was held on Zoom. I had been looking forward to seeing everybody online and hearing the music. Instead I learned how leaders can use Zoom to irritate and belittle people.

1. I signed on early to socialize, but bland, canned music from an unknown source was playing, to keep us from greeting one another and saying how happy we were to meet again.

2. Leader turned off our video, so we couldn't see each others' faces. I resented that.

3. The Dean gave a speech thanking us for our support, and that was fine. Then the president said it all over again.

4. It came time for the first student to perform, and she started with a gracious introduction and words of thanks. Trouble is, we couldn't hear her at all. Irritating for us and embarrassing for her.

5. When they finally got the sound on, she started singing, and it was a powerful blast of contralto in a foreign tongue, and it hurt my ears so badly that I clicked "Leave Meeting" and never went back.

This is no way to treat donors.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Felipa
Date: 16 May 21 - 04:15 PM

and what about the chat column? On the Mudcat singarounds, a lot of us post frequently in the chat. 1) it is record of what songs were sung and often the lyrics or links to the links are given 2) there isn't much time for discussion out-loud as there are many people awaiting a turn to sing. So the chat section is where we can give more info about the songs, and our associations with and reactions to the songs.

But I have found that in some situations, organisers admonish people not to chat too much (one even has a stated limit of two comments per person) The reason is that while some people enjoy comments other people find that they are distracting. Now, I have to say that the main place I find objection to commenting is on workshops where people are learning songs. But it has happened in singalongs as well.

some singalongs have endless congratuatory comments - "great singing", "wonderful song" but little else.

Do you have any opinions about chat etiquette?


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 May 21 - 04:53 PM

Yes, I do, i think it is important to have correct info about who wrote songs etc, many perfprmers jst acknowedge who they learned a modern composition from, this also happens with trad songs where the performer might say this is a song by such and so band, when the song much older and is trad
performers should credit the songwriter, without the songwriters creativity there would be no song , likewise with poems set to music the poet should be acknowledged and the music composer


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: mg
Date: 17 May 21 - 10:28 PM

i am totally for unlimited chat, including when someone is singing. some groups forbid this and it has something to do with people on phones not seeing their screens or only seeing the chat or whatever. Unfortunate, but if i only had a phone i would not forbid others to do something because i was unable to do it, or it interrupted my screen time. it is too valuable to do and too annoying not to do. if i am zoom singing feel free to chat all you want.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: GerryM
Date: 18 May 21 - 03:43 AM

The problem comes when the singer can't help noticing something in the chat. This problem hadn't occurred to me until I posted something funny in a chat a couple of weeks ago, and the singer came close to breaking into laughter in mid-song.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 May 21 - 11:29 AM

I get round that by not reading the chat while singing.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: mg
Date: 18 May 21 - 12:02 PM

i am confused. i have only done this by computer. but i don't see the chat comments unless i open up the chat window. how does this work for phones, kindles etc.? and why would people complain if they do not have the chat imposed on them but have to seek it out?


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Reinhard
Date: 18 May 21 - 01:26 PM

A question not about the etiquette but the usage of Zoom: Quite often I attend online gigs on Zoom, e.g. from the Live to Your Living Room concert series. Now, Zoom offers switching between a gallery view which shows a lot of audience members, and a speaker view which shows the performer in a large window but still five or six audience members in small windows besides.

I'd like to concentrate on the performance and not be distracted by even just a few other attendees. Besides, I don't want to feel like a voyeur spying into the audience's homes. Does Zoom offer an option that shows just the performer window and nobody else?


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Felipa
Date: 18 May 21 - 01:39 PM

I don't know Reinhard, I chose Speaker view, but there is a row of thumbnail photos on th etop (voyeurs can not enlarge these photos, to the best of my knowledge). Re Mg's mention of chat, sometimes a new comment from chat flashes on to the bottom of the screen.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: mg
Date: 18 May 21 - 04:04 PM

but if you have large speaker view, aren't you peeking into everyone's homes sequentially but in larger detail?


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: GerryM
Date: 18 May 21 - 06:58 PM

"Does Zoom offer an option that shows just the performer window and nobody else?" I don't think it does, but *you* have the option of, say, taping a piece of paper over the part of the screen you don't want to see.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 May 21 - 11:51 PM

There are so many different views of Zoom. I have two monitors, so one is the view of the entire group in a grid of boxes (up to 49 on a screen). The other screen shows the speaker, and can be fullscreen if I wish. I make the speaker/singer much smaller, and use the rest of the screen for chat and for researching songs.
Once you start using two 27-inch screens, nothing else will be satisfactory. I got this setup when I was working on the Rise Again Songbook, and it has worked so well for so many things. I use one screen for work, and one for research.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 May 21 - 06:13 PM

Your system of numbering people as they enter the session works very well, Joe! That way people know when their turn might come up, and can decide if they need to visit the you-know-where, replenish their glass, or just sit and wait until their number comes up. It is a very fair system.
Unlike AN other song session I was on last weekend where they "pick and choose" people to sing - some folk get 2 or 3 songs, others none. Seems if your face doesn't fit, you don't get a song: and this was happening way back before Covid and Zoom!


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: GUEST,The Man from UNCOOL
Date: 19 May 21 - 10:50 PM

mg It seems that, on hand-held devices, users get Chat msgs only mid-screen. Laptops and desktops have an option to display them in a side pane, which rearranges the grid of performers' windows, rather than in a central one which overlaps some [which YOU control]. With both options, new msgs directed to you or Everyone display for c.15 secs at lower mid-screen. I THINK you can't turn that off. The issue with the portables is that Chat swamps a lot of the screen, so folks using virtual crib-sheets can find their prompt covered up, mid-song.
The logic of unlimited chat is just as self-centred as the logic about asking folks not to do it because some people find it a problem. Herga, e.g., has edited its Etiquette to ask that people don't message Everyone DURING THE SINGING, in case the performer is on a hand-held. But they don't say "don't comment": they say "wait until the applause-gap before posting" — I'd have said a reasonable request.

Felipa I've not seen the Sing where they limit you to two comments. But see Herga's solution, above.
And I'm with you about the endlessly repetitive comments: the issue there is partly that many people think in clichés. But they're not copying each other: the things arrive in swarms because they're being typed at roughly the same time by people who can't see what's being, or has just been, posted almost simultaneously, just like a long Facebook thread, were posters clearly haven't read earlier msgs and think they're being original.
I'm sure you can't alter, or dispense with, the row [or column, depending on your chosen options] of thumbnail images of the non-performers in Speaker View.

Tattie B I don't know if she was the first, but Debra Chesman [of Valley Folk, Corning NY and FOCSLE Music, Southampton UK] initiated that system, and I think someone in the Mudcat Sing saw it and adopted it. It works much better with Zoom's facility to slide the windows into order [which overrides the default listing-order of black screens after video-on; that causes windows to jump about, as folks turn their cameras on and off, a headache for Hosts] and even better with the Host making everyone else follow their window-order, so you can see who's either side of you. That must even work on portables with only 4 windows onscreen at once, since I guess either Zoom defaults to, or most folks scroll through to, display their own window to themselves.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Mo the caller
Date: 22 May 21 - 11:33 AM

The default of seeing blank screens at the end was going to be my suggestion for anyone who doesn't want to watch other people watching singing. But if people don't want to be watched or if they have slow broadband they can turn their own camera off.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:27 AM

Two things I wish zoom hosts would do are:

(1) Turn OFF audio 'notifications' when a person joins the session - hearing the 'doorbell' over the speaker is distracting and often drowns out what the speaker is saying.

(2) Turn off pop-up chat message notifications. Typing in the chat box in a meeting is bad enough *see my earlier common about meetings within meetings) - but seeing the messages popping up is as bad as shouting across a room.

I must admit, though, this tends not to happen in folkie sessions but more of an occurrence at political party meetings.

Oh and a third one; disable screen share, but temporarily enable it when requested by a singer or speaker. This happened at a meeting (not folk or music) where a disruptive participant kept sharing screens while a councillor was trying to provide an update. In a folk club this would be like someone with a loud or amplified instrument deliberately launching into a tune drowning out a quieter unaccompanied singer.

These examples show the need for two people to run any sort of zoom session, the chair/MC and the host/bouncer.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 21 - 06:10 PM

I thought the pop-up chat notifications are something you set in your own account? Am I wrong about that?

And you can close the chat on your own computer screen. Many folk ignore it altogether. It is harder to pay attention to when on a phone. I think it is like whispering side comments to someone else sitting near you during a song circle. Not everyone pays attention.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 24 May 21 - 11:18 PM

i wish that people would turn off the camera when they are eating or doing grooming procedures.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Joe_F
Date: 25 May 21 - 05:40 PM

mg: Why? People eat & comb their hair while singing in pubs.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 May 21 - 06:05 PM

i admit to eating in pubs but i would not comb my hair or floss my teeth in a public room..


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Joe_F
Date: 26 May 21 - 06:49 PM

Evidently, delicacy has ragged edges, and one must take account of that in trying to be polite. IMO, however, overall it is a curse.


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Subject: RE: Zoom Etiquette
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 May 21 - 08:07 PM

Now that we are allowed to, we have started doing our band practices in twos; still on Zoom but 2 in each house. It does become harder to hear what is coming out of the computer from the lead player(s) when you have another player alongside of you. And the talking becomes almost impossible when the various pairs start taking to each other! Fortunately as host, I could mute them all when it was time to get a piece of important info across!


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