Eurovision 2021

Subject: Eurovision
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 03:26 AM

I usually start a thread while the Eurovision song contest is ongoing but I forgot this year!

Italy won and I thought they were quite good.
I liked the Belgian entry best
We got no points from either the jury or the public

What did others think?

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:01 AM

I thought the French entry was the best for a few decades. Proved, once again, that the UK commercial recording industry are only capable of churning out garbage due to mindless imbeciles insisting on buying what the multi-millionaire moguls decide that this is what the buying public want to hear.   Of course there could be another factor that due to **** like Johnson and Farage, all UK nationals are viewed as vermin, and should be treated as such by the rest of Europe,.

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:23 AM

I thought last year’s competition was the best ever!

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:27 AM

:)

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: Newport Boy
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:45 AM

The last Eurovision contest I remember hearing was 1967 - since then it's passed me by.

I was a bit of a fan of Sandie Shaw, who won with Puppet on a String. I was listening on BBC radio, with Rolf Harris one of the presenters. After the competition, he interviewed Sandie and the interview started with her entering the studio, a couple of words of greeting, then silence for about 5 seconds. Then her voice, reflectively, "He liked that, didn't he?"

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: G-Force
Date: 23 May 21 - 07:43 AM

I had hoped that now we've left the EU we could leave the Eurovision Song Contest too. However, judging by the few songs I heard this year, I'm glad we came last. I wouldn't want any song from here winning that.

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 08:06 AM

Yea, France was pretty good too. I thought the Italian one leaned a bit on Kiss but it was OK.

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 08:16 AM

And another tradition is my response with this: Eurovision should be a folk song not AMERICAN pop competition - anyone who thinks their pop, rock & (c)rap are somehow above English, or other European, folk & classical music is a fruitcake, frankly

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 23 May 21 - 08:16 AM

I had a go at re-writing the UK song by James Newman as a ballad.

I felt really bad for him when they announced zero points both from the judges and the audience.

People say it has nothing to do with Brexit, but I'm skeptical.

I miss the 'folk' acts that we have had in the past years, mostly pop, power ballad, rap or rock this year.

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 08:35 AM

Better

Subject: RE: Eurovision
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 21 - 09:00 AM

Why on earth would we seek a trade deal with Australia when they didn't have the loyalty to give us a single point

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Felipa
Date: 23 May 21 - 10:23 AM

why is Australia on the Eurovision judging panel? And does Israel, also well outside of Europe, still take part? (I didn't watch or listen to the competition).

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 23 May 21 - 10:34 AM

Why is this being talked about on Mudcat ?

I thought this site was supposedly set up for the discussion of folk, blues and related material not for pop circus and silliness.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 21 - 11:20 AM

I liked Bulgaria, Greece and Israel. Shows how much I know!

Leave it out, naysayers. There will always be a Eurovision. There are plenty of other channels.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 21 - 11:20 AM

Because it's the music of the people?

Don't be such a bloody kill joy. That the Italian winner claimed he was 'looking at a broken glass' was quite funny:

We never used cocaine

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 11:28 AM

I'd rather listen to Italians performing an Italian folk song - with or without a Chianti or two.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 12:07 PM

What is folk music but the music of the people, WAV?

(Ducks and runs)

:D

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 12:22 PM

...rather than copying what the people of another nation do, Dave.

Paul McCartney, e.g., would not deny that the Beatles were very good at copying an aspect of American culture or that all their musical heroes were American artists, he would just say something like - it's a cool thing to do, man.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 21 - 12:22 PM

Here we go yet again..

The annual cranky identity parade of surviving old folky crackpots and bigots...

Eurovision embodies all the positivity, creativity, and colour,
missing from the grey dull hearts of miserable old moaners...

Mind you, I'm going to have my miserable old moan about Eurovision..

I'm still pissed off last year's competition was cancelled.
Many of the 2020 songs were far better than this year's...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 21 - 12:33 PM

Alleluia.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 12:35 PM

Nations are a man made construct, WAV. We are all of one race and sing, dance and celebrate in much the same way. That you see song and music belonging to one culture speaks volumes about you and if you dislike the Eurovision so much please have the courtesy to stay off this thread.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Felipa
Date: 23 May 21 - 01:11 PM

Wikipedia has a partial answer to my question re Australian participation in Eurovision:

"Participation in the contest is primarily open to all broadcasters with active membership of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU). To become an active member of the EBU, a broadcaster has to be from a country which is covered by the European Broadcasting Area or a member state of the Council of Europe.[1] Eligibility to participate is not determined by geographic inclusion within the continent of Europe, despite the "Euro" in "Eurovision", nor does it have a direct connection with the European Union. Several countries geographically outside the boundaries of Europe have competed: Israel, Cyprus, and Armenia, in Western Asia, since 1973, 1981 and 2006 respectively; Morocco, in North Africa, in the 1980 competition alone; and Australia making a debut in the 2015 contest."

footnote 1. https://www.ebu.ch/about/members/admission
"Admission". EBU. European Broadcasting Union. Retrieved 12 April 2017.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest also gives a list, with some details, of countries which have unsuccessfully applied to join the competition

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 01:17 PM

Thank you Felipa. Another thing about Eurovision that seems to be escaping some. Again from Wiki -

The Eurovision Song Contest's founding stemmed from a desire to promote cooperation between European countries in the years following the Second World War through cross-border television broadcasts, which gave rise to the founding of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU) in 1950.

And why leave it at cooperation between European countries? We are one world. In the words of a very Eurovisionish advert for an American product...

I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony

:D

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 23 May 21 - 01:20 PM

Daniel Kelly, I thought your re-working of the English entry was brilliant, and head and shoulders above the Eurovision rendition/ Well done!

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 01:23 PM

"That you see song and music belonging to one culture speaks volumes about you"...just above, Dave, I said I'd like to hear an Italian folk song on Eurovision. With a major in anthropology and shoe-string travel through about 40 nations, I doubt anyone loves our world/our United Nations being multicultural more than I and, thus, I don't like Eurovision being all about American culture.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:12 PM

walky - any narrow-minded tourist can visit more than 40 nations
and never have their mind expanded...


.. and anthropology hasn't exactly stood up well to close academic scrutiny over recent decades...

You are probably a prime example why..

Walky says - "I love other races and cultures as long as they stay where they are and don't move in here..."

.. off you go then, scuttle back down to your own thread.
You've more than said your piece in this one...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:28 PM

Daniel - you've transformed a drab mediocre Eurovision failure
into a potential contemporary folk standard..

Just about everything about the UK entry was shoddy and dismal, apart from the core song itself...

You have easily proven that...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:31 PM

I love fair-trade and eco-tourism between our United Nations.

And, in line with what Hootenanny posted, American pop and rock already swamp our airwaves and internet so, if you do wish for such a discussion on Mudcat, surely you should at least accept some criticism - without resorting to cheap shots, PFR.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:31 PM

I don't like Eurovision being all about American culture

It isn't. Apart from in your mind. Your 'major in anthropology', whatever that may be as it certainly is not an English thing, is of no obvious use when it comes to either logic or music.

I'll tell you what. You start a thread about something you enjoy and I will do my upmost to shit on that, politicise it and get it shut down. Ok?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:37 PM

If you don't like something, fine. I accept that. Just say you don't like it and leave. Don't try to turn every thread into a platform for your own politics and poetry.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 23 May 21 - 02:59 PM

Thank you Felipa for saving me the bother of having to explain the EBU to the wiflully ignorant.   Also, what they forget is that being in the EBU means that he UK can participate and broadcast a number of sporting events. The ESC is one of many things we can participate in thanks to our participation in the EBU,

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,G
Date: 23 May 21 - 03:16 PM

I've not watched the eurovision contest for over 20 years, when Turkey received "nil points".

It seems to be more about politics than music.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 21 - 03:24 PM

It could seem like anything you can possibly imagine,
if you haven't watched it for over 20 years...!!!???

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 03:37 PM

Dave - you may like it that the different nationals in Eurovision are performing pop and rock (rather than their own folk songs) but denying that they are aspects of American culture is moronic - and, as I say, Paul McCartney, e.g., would not deny it.

E.g., we could, rather, be hearing some great fado from Portugal, and some great flamenco from Spain...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Colin Randall
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:08 PM

As any good Brexiter would say, the vote was rigged to punish us for our ludicrous act of self-harm. James Newman won! Trump won! Vaccination sucks! Johnny Foreigner to blame!

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:32 PM

Where did that "American Pop" come from, WAV?

The song said "it's all rock and roll to me". I say it's all jig and feel to me. There is no such thing as exclusive cultures

Now, will you do as I ask and start your own thread or do I have to get this one closed?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:38 PM

Watched the last hour just to make sure that, as usual, Greece gave maximum points to Cyprus and vice versa and wasn’t disappointed.

Strikes me that everyone avoids voting for the UK entry - because of brexit or otherwise. Why then is the whole fiasco conducted in English?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:53 PM

Sorry, guest 23 May 21 - 04:32 PM was me. No idea where my bickie went!

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:56 PM

Sorry, mate, but Mrs Steve and I (who wouldn't miss the show for the earth) both said, sort of independently of each other (well, at least we were sitting on separate settees...) that the Brit entry was, compared to the others, shite, and that we wouldn't be surprised if it got nul points (as it turns out, the only thing we were right about). I think that (a) the standard last night was very high and that the production values were fantastic, (b) the contest is an amazing celebration of unity. I wouldn't buy a single record of any song from last night. But so what. Curl up with a bottle of wine and a lump of cheese once a year for three hours of something determinedly bloody cheerful and uber-cheesy. I have 364 days 21 hours for other culture if I want it. 365 if I really want it.

By the way, WAV, I love the influence of American culture. It gave us Negro spirituals, call and response, Paul Robeson, Pete Seeger, the blues, bluegrass, Lennie Bernstein, George Gershwin, Samuel Barber, Elvis, rock 'n' roll, Charles Ives, Aaron Copland, Woody Guthrie, country music...Andre Previn...

I didn't mention Dylan and jazz because I hate both. But...OK...Dylan and jazz...Satchmo...

I love that we are influenced by American culture. I hope they feel the same way about our culture.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:58 PM

Briefly, pop, rock, blues, jazz, Guest, evolved in American and have, of course, been copied by many around the world - from ABBA in Sweden to the Beatles and Rolling Stones in England (while others joined the folk revival).

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 21 - 04:59 PM

I forgot to mention those amazing musicals...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 05:15 PM

Briefly, pop, rock, blues, jazz, Guest, evolved in American

And, pray tell, what did they evolve from?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 21 - 05:18 PM

Walky takes advantage of mudcat being online..

If this was a real world pub conversation between mates.

It probably wouldn't be long before walky ended up on his arse outside the front door..

With his poetry manifesto book shoved deeply between his buttocks...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 05:19 PM

You don't need me to tell you that, Dave - a lot of influences from a lot of immigration.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 May 21 - 05:45 PM

It was indeed from many cultures WAV. African, Asian, British...

So, the circle is squared. Eurovision learns from American culture that learned from European culture that learned from African culture that learned from... What?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 06:30 PM

No, Steve, rather, the most popular music in the nations of Europe and most of the world/the one that doing well at makes by far the most money, is copied American pop and rock, which is performed at Eurovision rather than the folk songs of those nations, such as my above examples of fado and flamenco.

Whether or not we like Americanisation, it's foolish to deny the existence of it...and why, Dave, don't you like fado, E-trads, flamenco, etc.?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 23 May 21 - 07:04 PM

...Sean-nós...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 23 May 21 - 07:51 PM

Never watched Eurovision - I think that is what this thread is supposed to be about.
Why the squabbling - or is it private?
The pubs I drank in when Eurovision started did not have TVs in the bar - but they did have decent beer and proper crack.
Hey ho!!

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 May 21 - 02:50 AM

I like all sorts of music but there is good and bad in all genres. Eurovision is not about showcasing a countries own culture, it is about songs that appeal to the widest possible range of countries and tastes. If you want folk music, go to a folk festival. If you don't like Eurovision, don't watch it. Simple.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 24 May 21 - 03:27 AM

Just watched the last hour to make sure Greece were still giving maximum points to Cyprus, as usual, and vice versa.

The Eurovision countries clearly hate the British entries; brexit or otherwise, but I can’t understand why the whole fisaco is conducted in English?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Iains
Date: 24 May 21 - 04:15 AM

Terry Wogan stopped presenting the Eurovision song contest because of block voting by certain countries. Like it or not, the contest has politics running through it.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 24 May 21 - 04:28 AM

"... but I can’t understand why the whole fisaco [sic] is conducted in English?"

Mainly because more people in other participating countries speak English as a foreign language than any other language. I wouldn't complain is if was conducted in Czech as I understand Czech better than any other European language.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 May 21 - 07:30 AM

There's too much talking..

Norton is an unfunny smug arsehole, sneering at music he does not understand or appreciate..

.. hmmmm.. that sounds familiar...


I'm trying to remember now, if wogan actually talked dismissively over the music...???

Norton continues the wogan tradition of disrespect for the contest,
in the guise of light entertainment humour..

Reinforcing the BBC snobby mockery that the music is of secondary importance to the 'campness' of the competition..

Any wonder the rest of Europe, who perfectly understand the English language,
view Britain as a bunch of supercilious contemptuous ****s...???

.. and reflect that in their not voting for our dire substandard entries...????

The BBC should either pull out of the top 5,
or send a presenter who has genuine enthusiasm for such an eclectic scope of international music..

But then again, even the more respectful presentation of Glastonbury
allows too much airtime to the trite banter of the BBC music personality presenters...

However, all British TV is riddled with irritating wanky personality professional presenters...

[..yes of course,.. imho...]

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 24 May 21 - 07:42 AM

I am not sure it's just BBC television, it's more a general English thing I think. The liveblog the Guardian ran was perhaps worse, or at least as irritating: Guardian liveblog Eurovison finals

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 24 May 21 - 11:28 AM

The Eurovision Song Contest is a rather unique event that costs the host country an absolute fortune to stage - A showcase of countries all all of whom want to be seen as participating while at the same time trying their utmost to ensure that they come nowhere near winning it.

Liked the crack about the max points awarded by Greece and Cyprus each year. They should just leave them up on the scoreboard for next year. They're a permanent fixture.

Anybody that does anything other than take the piss out of the whole thing is obviously soft in the head.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 May 21 - 11:56 AM

You can take the piss out of Eurovision, without showing snobby contempt for the music...


We can all take the piss out of our family and mates..
.. and all the people and things we like..

That's part of the fun of being Human..


Then there are those negative two faced folks
who sneer at others and the their preferences from under a feigned facade of civil respect for them...

Personally I too used to think Euovision was soiled pants..
That was a cultural norm I was conditioned to conform to until I started developing my own mature self awareness..

I've never liked wogan, and associated the entirety of Eurovision with him and his wanky (imho) brand of light entertainment..

It was only until about 18 years ago when rain kept me stuck in a seaside pub with a big telly..

Eurovision was on, we couldn't escape because of the rain, so submitted to put up with it..

By the end of the show it turned surprising out to be one of the best nights in a pub of strangers we'd ever enjoyed..

We soon realised it was mainly because of the post millennium influx of Central and Eastern European Nations..

Their music was just so refreshingly inventive and creative a mix of their own trad folk culture and western pop music..

The Brit entries by contrast, are usually complete shite...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 May 21 - 11:57 AM

Sounds like the Olympics.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Iains
Date: 24 May 21 - 01:38 PM

From what I can make out the BBC has the sole choice of selecting "talent" for the Eurovision contest and unlike other countries there is no dry run on the airwaves to see how their choice may be received.
No surprise their offering bombed.

As some soul posted on the internet:
"The BBC chooses our entry and doesn't bother with a contest, or the live television voter-drawn trials. So every year, Britain sends some unprepared soul to perish on the world stage."

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: John J
Date: 24 May 21 - 06:33 PM

I recent years (decades?) results have been strongly influenced by politics.... IMHO.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 25 May 21 - 02:22 PM

I did not say I didn't like it - it just has the same effect as the vast majority of content presented by the BBC - I know were the off button is - pity that is not possible in a pub.

That does not mean I dislike it - just there are things I would far rather be doing - especially in a pub.

I don't even watch sport these days - ditto the presenters - even rugby has succumbed to inanity.

I had a pal who when Test cricket was available to all would watch with the sound off and Test Match Special on the radio.

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 May 21 - 08:57 AM

How was the Isralian entry?

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 21 - 03:53 PM

Israelian I should say!

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 May 21 - 04:48 PM

"Israel's entry" will do. It was rather good, actually. It was in my top three, but I know nothing (in the words of Manuel...)

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 May 21 - 08:14 PM

Watched about 3 songs early on then defected to catching up with a few other things on iPlayer. Came to the conclusion it’s not about the songs, but more to do with video, special effects, flame throwers and costumes. Interesting to hear someone talking about the radio version: that might be a better test of the songs! Went back in about 11.40. for the news, but that was delayed so did see the final result given out and Italy’s re-performance. Not impressed!

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 May 21 - 08:39 PM

Well mebbe you should have made the effort to "endure' the whole thing before commenting on it. It was rather good, actually, with a good standard of "pop" and a very high standard apropos of production values. Still, how would you know...

Subject: RE: Eurovision 2021
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 May 21 - 05:36 AM

I rather like Israelian, as opposed to the incorrect "Argentinian"!!!