Loss of all hands in the irish sea

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 03:08 PM

We walked past the Royal Charter memorial last year, but an Irish Sea ferry, Leinster, sank with an even greater loss of life.

RMS Leinster was an Irish ship operated by the City of Dublin Steam Packet Company. She served as the Kingstown-Holyhead mailboat until she was torpedoed and sunk by the German submarine UB-123, which was under the command of Oberleutnant zur See Robert Ramm, on 10 October 1918, while bound for Holyhead. She sank just outside Dublin Bay at a point 4 nautical miles (7.4 km) east of the Kish light. The exact number of dead is unknown but researchers from the National Maritime Museum believe it was at least 564; this would make it the largest single loss of life in the Irish Sea.

On October 18, 1918 at 9.10 a.m. UB-125, outbound from Germany under the command of Oberleutnant zur See Werner Vater, picked up a radio message requesting advice on the best way to get through the North Sea minefield. The sender was Oberleutnant zur See Robert Ramm aboard UB-123. Extra mines had been added to the minefield since UB-123 had made her outward voyage from Germany. As UB-125 had just come through the minefield, Vater radioed back with a suggested route. UB-123 acknowledged the message and was never heard from again. The following day, ten days after the sinking of the RMS Leinster, UB-123 detonated a mine while trying to cross the North Sea and return to base in Imperial Germany. There were no survivors.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 02:08 PM

The Royal Charter was a steam clipper which was wrecked off the beach of Porth Alerth in Dulas Bay on the northeast coast of Anglesey on 26 October 1859. The precise number of dead is uncertain as the complete passenger list was lost in the wreck although people say that 40 of the 480 passengers survived; an incomplete list (not including those who boarded just before departure) is retained in the Victorian Archives Centre in Victoria, Australia. About 450 lives were lost, the highest death toll of any shipwreck on the Welsh coast. It was the most prominent victim among about 200 ships wrecked by the Royal Charter Storm.

The Royal Charter was built at the Sandycroft Ironworks on the River Dee and was launched in 1855. She was a new type of ship, a 2719-ton iron-hulled steam clipper, built in the same way as a clipper ship but with auxiliary steam engines which could be used in the absence of suitable winds. The ship was used on the route from Liverpool to Australia, mainly as a passenger ship although there was room for some cargo. There was room for up to 600 passengers, with luxury accommodation in the first class. She was considered a very fast ship, able to make the passage to Australia via Cape Horn in under 60 days.

Subject: Tom Russell's Wales Song From: fsharpdim7 Date: 29 Jul 03 - 04:52 PM I just got Tom's Modern Art and was really surprised to hear "Issac Lewis." Here is his explanation: "I'm not a sea-going man, but I heard the seed of this story in a bar in Northern Wales. Issac Lewis sails around the world and drowns aboard a clipper ship, then washes up on shore right outside his father's door. I doubted the old drunk who told me the story, then the next day he gave me a book called "The Golden Wreck." It was all true. It's in the book. This may be one of the only songs I've written with a "message." The moral is: "tell your loved ones what they mean to you before it's too late." Eliza Gilkyson sings harmony and Elana Fremerman plays string parts. This song goes well with a Guinness. And two shots of Tullamore Dew." American folksingers William Pint and Felicia Dale covered the song "Isaac Lewis" on their 2017 album Midnight on the Sea.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 01:50 PM

MV Princess Victoria was one of the earliest roll-on/roll-off (ro-ro) ferries. Completed in 1947, she operated from Stranraer to Larne. During a severe European windstorm on 31 January 1953, she sank in the North Channel with the loss of 135 lives. This was then the deadliest maritime disaster in United Kingdom waters since World War II. For many years it was believed that 133 people had lost their lives in the disaster, but research by local historian Liam Kelly JP, DL, identified two other victims - Gordon Wright and Thomas Saunders - whose names had not been identified as there had been no ship's passenger list at the time.

British folk singer Gareth Davies-Jones wrote a song "Princess Victoria" dedicated to those who lost their lives in the disaster which he recorded on his 2008 album Water & Light.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 21 - 09:23 AM

From the Glasgow Keelie FB page.

Everyday leading up to Workers Memorial Day next Wednesday (28th), we will post a story illustrating workers killed by negligence. This one relates to the military & how the Navy uses the Clyde and waters beyond:                                              The Fishing is six times more dangerous than any other workplace and it doesn’t help when your nets catch a nuclear submarine.

Since 1970 there may have been up to 150 fisherfolk drowned because submarines snagged their fishing nets. In 2015, trawlers from Scotland- Aquarius and Northern Ireland - Karen and France had their nets caught by submerged submarines. Further back in 1990 the wooden trawler Antares from Carradale, Kintyre, sank in the Firth of Clyde while fishing for herring off Arran because HMS Trenchant a nuclear submarine caught its nets as it passed underneath. This hunter killer submarine was loaded with Spearfish heavyweight torpedoes and driven by a student at the time of the disaster. All four fishing crew were drowned, Dugald John, 20, Skipper Jamie Russell, 36, William Martindale, 24, and Stewart Campbell, 29.

The Firth of Clyde is used by MOD for its Perisher mock battle course where it trains Navy Officers from all over the world to drive a nuclear sub. On that night Jamir Russell and the crew were fishing in the deep waters of the Arran Trench with two other fishing vessels nearby. HMS Trenchant was in the same area conducting the Perisher course. A student was in command of the sub, under the supervision of their commanding officer. The sub heard loud banging and when it surfaced there was fishing net on its hull. It attempted to contact the two boats it could see without success. It contacted Faslane to say it had net on it but the 2 boats looked fine and carried on teaching its Perisher course.

The Secretary of the Clyde Fisherman’s Association heard of the incident, radioed the two boats who confirmed a third vessel had disappeared, maybe gone out to sea or docked. More phone calls confirmed it had not. A search found only fish boxes and oil floating on the surface. The following day, sonar of one of the search vessels picked up a new, uncharted wreck on the seabed. It was confirmed to be the Antares. The sub had caught the nets of the boat immediately dragging it and filling it with water.

Experts found that NO BLAME at all could be attached to the crew of the Antares who were going about their legal business of commercial fishing.

ALL BLAME was placed on the crew and commanding officers of HMS Trenchant. The official findings of the investigation were that there was a “partial breakdown in both the standards and structure of watchkeeping on board HMS Trenchant’.

The families found it ‘inconceivable’ that the following year, near the anniversary, the MOD went ahead with Perisher training students just extending the distance of nuclear subs from fishing boats to 3000 yards. NOTHING stops the WARmongering financial racket.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,Iains
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 11:11 AM

On Friday 3 December 1909, Ellan Vannin left her home port of Ramsey , under the command Captain James Teare,Ellan Vannin was carrying 15 passengers and 21 crew
The weather on departure was moderate and although the barometric pressure was falling the captain did not expect a significant deterioration in the weather. The wind direction on departure was from the northwest meaning the Ellan Vannin would have a following sea during her passage – something which would have caused her master no particular concern However, the weather rapidly worsened and when the ship arrived at the Mersey Bar lightship, the wind had risen to a Hurricane Force 12, and waves were reported to be exceeding 24 feet in height.It is believed she was broached by a large wave, which overwhelmed the ship. She was swept by heavy seas and filled, sinking by the stern with the loss of all passengers and crew.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUvX3JIzT2A

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,James Phillips
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 10:59 AM

Couple of great sea tragedies as sung by Andy Stewart of Silly Wizard:

DUBLIN BAY

They sailed away in that gallant bark
Roy Neal and his fair young bride
They had ventured all on that bounding shipp
That danced on the silv'ry tide
And his heart was young and his spirit light
As he kissed her tears away
And they watched the shore retreat from sight
Of their own sweet Dublin bay

Three days they sailed when the storm arose
And the lightning swept the deep
And the thunderclaps broke the short repose
Of the weary sailors' sleep
Roy Neal, he clasped his weeping bride
And he kissed her tears away
"Oh, love, 'twas a fearful hour, " he cried
"When we left sweet Dublin Bay."

On the crowded deck of that doomed ship
Some fell into deep despair
And some more calm with a holier heart
Sought the god of the storm in prayer
"She has struck a rock, " the sailors cried
In a breath of wild dismay
And the ship went down with the fair young bride
That left from Dublin bay


THE FISHERMAN'S SONG

By the storm torn shoreline
A woman is standing,
The spray strung like jewels in her hair.
And the sea tore the rocks
Near that desolate landing,
As though it had known she stood there.

CHORUS: For she has come down
To condemn that wild ocean
For the murderous loss of her man.
His boat sailed out on Wednesday morning,
And it's feared she's gone down
With all hands.

Oh and white were the wave caps
And wild was their parting.
So fierce is the warring of love.
But she prayed to the gods,
Both of men and of sailors,
Not to cast their cruel nets
O'er her love.

There's a school on the hill
Where the sons of dead fathers
Are led toward tempests and gales.
Where their God-given wings
Are clipped close to their bodies,
And their eyes are bound round
With ship's sails.

What force leads a man
To a life filled with danger
High on seas or a mile underground?
It's when need is his master
And poverty's no stranger,
And there's no other work to be found.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 06:28 AM

The Good Hope by Herman Heijermans, in a new version by Lee Hall, lyrics by John Tams.

The voyage of the Good Hope is a journey on which the life of an entire community depends. A storm rages, the women and children wait ashore, an unseaworthy boat forced to put to sea follows the Greenland catch...
This Dutch classic of social realist theatre has been relocated to the Yorkshire fishing community of Whitby in 1900.

All Clouds The Sky performed By John Tams And Barry Coope Live @ Alstonefield Village Hall, Staffordshire
From The Good Hope, National Theatre 2001-2002 All Clouds The Sky

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 Apr 21 - 05:27 AM

Yesterday; A wreck found off the north Wales coast has been identified as a fishing boat that sank more than two months ago with three crew on board. The bodies of Alan Minard, 20, Ross Ballantine, 39, and skipper Carl McGrath, 34, were all found in March.

The Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) confirmed the wreck is that of the Nicola Faith, which failed to return to port in Conwy. The MAIB is investigating to find out why the vessel sank, in January.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 10:11 AM

"Don't mourn, organize" as someone who knew what he was talking about said.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Apr 21 - 10:00 AM

Leaky, undermanned, many skippers lacked experience as promotion was rapid due to great loss of life, very dangerous conditions, health and safety didn't exist, etc.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 06:51 PM

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solway_Harvester

Murdered by the bosses as with most "industrial accidents".

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 04:52 PM

The loss of Hull and Grimsby trawlers in the Arctic during the 20th century were great tragedies for the area, but if you look at the shipwreck register for the 19th century on Wikipedia, ships were lost with all hands on an almost daily basis for a great variety of reasons, and in the great gales of the 1860s and 1880s the losses were colossal, up to 50 ships in one day. many ordinary seamen had little option. It was go back to sea or starve, and trust in providence.

Subject: RE: Evelyn Marie
From: Felipa
Date: 12 Apr 21 - 02:54 PM

There are at least two songs in English and one in Irish about the loss of the Evelyn Marie. There may well be more. I'm looking for the lyrics of the Irish language song Eibhlín Marie, record by Aodh Ó Duibheannaigh and by Máire Ní Bhraonáin. Aodh's singing is clear enough but I'm not good at transcribing by ear and don't want to spend lots of time listening over and over.

As for the lyrics posted by Martin Ryan, I heard it on a recording posted on youtube, sung to the tune of Dominic Behan's "Patriot Game".
The Loss of the Evelyn Marie

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: DougR
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 05:03 PM

Thanks, Little Dorritt, for informing us of this terrible happening. What a loss to those two villages. My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those seven men.

DougR

Subject: Lyr Add: IN THE DEEP^^
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 04:54 PM

Aw gee.

IN THE DEEP

In the deep, in the deep,
Now my heart and my soul have gone down.
May my loved ones' peace our Lord well keep
As He holds me safe, arms around.

In the deep, in the deep...
Strangely quiet, and warm despite cold,
I have given you my memory to keep
Though I never now will grow old.

In the deep... in the deep...
Though my body be lost, I am proud.
For I took your love in, long ago, down deep,
And I'll wear it forever as a shroud.

~S~

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: GUEST,Bobby Bob, Ellan Vannin
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:24 PM

I would be very interested to see the lyrics/hear the tune of the song that James Berriman referred to having heard sung at the Whitby Folk Festival recently.

As you probably know, the Isle of Man Government showed its independence by not following the general policy of the United Kingdom and raising the Solway Harvester for further investigation. It sank in the Manx territorial sea, about eleven miles off Douglas.

Before that, all seven bodies were recovered from on board, and the Isle of Man Government and the fishing industry here assisted the distressed families in coming to the Island for the inquest and taking back the bodies for burial.

Isle of Man Government members and fishing industry representatives attended the funerals, and very shortly a memorial will be raised on Douglas Head.

The whole affair has strengthened the links between the fishing families in that part of Scotland and the Isle of Man. However, part of the waters by Kirkcudbright has been known as 'Manxman's Lake' for many years, showing the strong affinity between the areas.

The general public in the Island have been very moved by the tragedy; a lot of money has been raised for the families; and there has been a huge wave of sympathy in general.

A song about the sad events which have hit home hard here as well as in Whithorn/Kirkcudbright would be of very great interest to people in the Isle of Man, so if any person can post the lyrics and a midi file, I'd be very grateful.

Shoh slaynt,

Bobby Bob

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Kim C
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:44 AM

What is that verse in the book of Proverbs, about "them that go down to the sea in ships"?

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: JamesBerriman
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:00 AM

I heard a tremendous song about the Solway Harvester at Robin Hood's bay, during Whitby Folk week.

( :-]) James

Subject: Lyr Add: THE LOSS OF THE EVELYN MARIE^^
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 05:30 PM

I mentioned the "Evelyn Marie" earlier in this thread. When I check, I find she went down twenty five years ago, almost to the day. Here's the song:


THE LOSS OF THE EVELYN MARIE

It's mournful to tell you a story so sad
It's about a new trawler and the equipment she had
It was was fitted with rudder and lifeboats for the sea
It was blessed for the ocean, the Evelyn Marie

There was six gallant fishermen, men of the sea
Qualified skippers, her nets to set free
They'd fish the wild ocean in every degree
In this beautiful trawler, the Evelyn Marie

They fished the wild ocean, North, East and West
They sold off their catches at the port that was best
And then they were happy going right back to sea
In this beautiful trawler , the Evelyn Marie

They guided this trawler for one year and some days
What ill fate befell them within the freak waves
A call to their comrades "Mayday at the sea
Assist us this moment with the Evelyn Marie"

"Assistance now coming - Summer Star and its crew"
Saying "With God's help we'll make it, your trawler is new"
A disaster it was then - they just saw her stern
As she sank near the rocks outside Rathlin O'Beirne

Come all you good people, I ask one and all
Pray for the fisherman who are off Donegal
Pray for the six skippers who are lost out at sea
In the ill-fated trawler, the Evelyn Marie


Regards

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Wotcha
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 07:52 AM

A tragedy and a sad loss to the communities. A good time to remind folks to contribute to Birtain's Royal National Lifeboat Institution (RNLI) which provides volunteer services to rescue those in peril on the sea.

Brian

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Escamillo
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 04:52 AM

JenEllen, what a beatiful poem ! I wish I had the talent to write something like that in my own grave and not those more mundane things (go sing a song, take a beer, etc.) that come to my mind, but the feeling is the same.
Un abrazo - Andrés Magré

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: JenEllen
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 02:27 AM

Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there, I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glint on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you wake in the morning hush,
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circling flight.
I am soft ocean starlight at night.
Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there, I do not sleep.

May some small amount of peace and comfort go to all the falmilies and friends of those lost. Elle

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: p.j.
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 12:47 AM

Thank you, Little Dorritt, for making sure this didn't go unnoticed in this community. It's so touchig to see people who never knew these fishermen care so much about what their death-- and life-- meant. I think the music in our lives has everything to do with that awareness, no matter how far from the sea we were raised.

Speaking as the wife of a fireman, I hope they died doing something they loved, and I hope their families can grieve in the company of people who are as good as the dear folks I've read on this thread.

They, and you, are in my thoughts tonight.

p.j.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Jan 00 - 12:16 AM

Yes, André, we are living too fast. I am sorry to hear of your countrywo/men. I will also be thinking of them and their families.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Escamillo
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 11:14 PM

Sorry to hear about another tragedy. (Yesterday 47 argentine people died in a bus accident in Brazil, and today 5 more, in the same route and same place). Aren't we living too fast ? Our thoughts are with those families. Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Clifton53
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 02:06 PM

Beautiful words all. A sad story. The sea is indeed a cruel mistress. There have been some clamming vessels lost in recent years near my home. Part of the problem aside from the weather, is trying to turn a profit at this buisness. Longer hours on the water, and trying to satisfy corporate ownership is difficult.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: roopoo
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 11:18 AM

I think that tribute should be paid to all who go out in foul conditions to rescue those in peril at sea. The Lifeboatmen only know too well the price the sea can exact, many of them being fishermen themselves.

mouldy

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: folk1234
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 10:45 AM

From Joan Sprung's beautiful "Harbors of Home": "The Ocean gives us fish, and the fish it buys our bread.
Strike a bargain with the Devil so that all of us are fed.
And nothing's given free, and our bonny boys are dead.
Oh our young men from the Harbors of Home."

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Magpie
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 10:09 AM

There seems to be tragedies all over the shop these days. Here in Norway, there was just recently a train accident where two trainscollided head on, and I think more than 30 people died including the entire staff save one.

I always knew the sea was a dangerous place, but I thought trains were supposed to be fairly safe.

Another song that comes to mind is Donegal Danny. Non-political, about the perils and tragedies of the sea.

Magpie

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 09:59 AM

Richard.

It was in fact only a third of a song, called Thirty Pieces Of Silver. The rest of it does not really belong here but if you are interested, I have posted the whole thing HERE

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 03:03 AM

Well said, Don M. A tragedy like this makes us realize that some folks actually DO lay their lives on the line to put food on our tables. Maybe we can think about that the next time we're bitching about something really insignificant. BTW, I think Ewan MacColl captured the risks these folks take in his Singing The Fishing Series, eg the Shoals of Herring, or the Lifeboat Mona. God Rest Them.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: roopoo
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 02:46 AM

It's a moving tribute to these men that so many people around the world feel the loss. I and one or two other Mudcatters (Ian Stephenson and his family) know the Isle of Whithorn, and Kirkudbright, as we go to that area every summer. How Winter can change things! Ian and his family know the area even better than I do, as they have relatives in Creetown and all have been going there for over 30 years. Isle of Whithorn is a beautiful village which centres around its lovely harbour, now home to mainly pleasure boats and inshore fishermen. It is also the place where St. Ninian landed to bring Christianity to that area of Britain in the 5th century: the remains of a chapel are still to be found near a sloping shingle beach where pilgrims landed. For me it is one of the most spiritual places and I find great peace there. I hope and pray that the same peace and healing that I find may one day find its way into the hearts and minds of the families that have been destroyed by this tragedy. The sea is a cruel mistress, and I hope for the sake of the relatives of these men that she will give up her dead so that they can complete their mourning process.

mouldy

It will be a poignant visit for me next year.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Jan 00 - 12:27 AM

Dear Don,

Your words are some of the most eloquent I've ever read. I am just about speechless and my eyes are brimming with tears; something in the cadence, in the first person, experience, etc. which just came out so well and with such vivid poignancy. Thanks.

For more info, here is a short synopsis I was able to find:

Wednesday January 12 8:04 PM ET
Seven Scottish Fisherman Feared Dead

KIRKUDBRIGHT, Scotland (AP) - Seven Scottish fisherman were feared dead Wednesday after their boat sank in the Irish Sea.

The 70-foot scallop dredger Solway Harvester disappeared after putting out a distress call at about 6 p.m. Tuesday.

The coast guard said sonar detected the vessel at the bottom of the sea Wednesday afternoon, close to where it had put out a distress call, off the Isle of Man. Both its life rafts were discovered uninflated, prompting speculation the dredger had sunk rapidly.

Coast guard officials said there was little hope of finding the crew, and the sea and air search was scaled down Wednesday.

Prime Minister Tony Blair offered condolences to the families of the fishermen, who ranged in age from 17 to 33.

``Our profound sympathy is with them all,'' Blair said.

Local police Sgt. Mike Kneeshaw said the southwest Scottish communities of Whithorn, Garlieston and Isle of Whithorn were hard hit by the loss.

``It is a very tight-knit community,'' he said. ``There can be very, very few families which will not be affected by this tragedy.''

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 11:24 PM

I have seen boats in all stages of their living. I have laid keels and stood ribs. I have faired shears and chines and I have seen them at plating. I 've watched ships launch. I've seen them work and I've seen them sink but the men on board have always come back. It breaks my heart to think of a ship with all hands lost at sea. But they still go out again don't they.

Don

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 09:33 PM

richr, glad to find someone else who knows about them! Yes, they DO deserve a wider audience. I've seen them live, twice, here in Wyoming.

PeterT, their record company addy is Rimsong Music, P.O. Box 704 Polson, MT 59860. They have 3 CDs out and while I like them all, I think that one is the best; not a song on it that I don't like and Greenland Whale Fishery is on it, too.

Sorry for the thread drift. Dave, Victoria, those were beautiful.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Victoria
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 08:39 PM

If folk music cannot see to the heart of such a tragedy...what can indeed? Thank you for making us aware of this ...surely many prayers and thoughts will be with those families tonight, because you did. Here's another chorus perhaps..... "Upon the land they breathless stand as they watch the stormwinds come, Mothers, Sisters, Daughters, Wives, wait for Fathers, Brothers, Sons. And should the waves claim yet that soul for whom they burn a light, There'll be one angel more in the arms of the sea as they wait in vain tonight."

May God be with them, as will our thoughts, as they face a future without a loved one.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Áine
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 08:25 PM

Dear Dave,

From a daughter of a US Navy family, thank you.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:50 PM

Dave

Well said.

Regards

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:41 PM

There are no roses on sailors graves
Nor wreaths upon the storm tossed waves
No last post from the Royals band
So far away from their native land
No heartbroken words carved on stone
Just shipmates bodies floating there alone
The only tributes are the seagulls sweeps
And the teardrop when a loved one weeps
UNKNOWN

The Motto of my service is, this we do, "That Others May Live" Sometimes the sea wins the fight. Yours, Aye Dave

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Peter T.
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:37 PM

kat, amazing song, just amazing. If the melody is as haunting as the words, phew. Must find the album. Thanks, yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:36 PM

The Watersons used to do a beautiful, slow, haunting version of "The Greenland Whale Fishery". Nowadays, if you try to sing it, people speed it up and sing the last line twice! Its on the "Early Days" CD reissue of a year or two ago.

Regards

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: raredance
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:31 PM

Sorry, Ken Willson deserves to have his name spelled correctly with 2 "L's"

rich r

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: raredance
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:28 PM

I agree Kat, it is "hauntingly beautiful". Wilson & McKee are a wonderful husband/wife duo from Montana who deserve a bigger audience (doesn't everybody). "The Pattern" is on their 1995 CD of the same name on the Rimnsong label. If you get the chance to see them live, cajole them at intermission into doing "Greenland Whale Fishery". They do a wonderful somewhat slowed down version that Kim adds sign language to.

rich r

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 07:15 PM

Sham, that's half a song. Finish it, it's good. Unlike some political songs it uses understatement to increase the effect.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE PATTERN^^
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 06:20 PM

Thanks Little Dorrit for letting us all know and Shambles for your beautiful words. I will be thinking of those poor families and give thanks that they make it through this terrible time.

Would like to share the following; one of my favourite songs, it has a hauntingly beautiful melody:

Kim McKee wrote it after reading how the women in seafring villages would knit an "identifying" pattern in the sweaters for their men. Here are the copyrighted lyrics:

THE PATTERN

Oh the sea can take the lovers
and the fathers from our homes
and leave a hole within the hearts
of those who watch them go

So we stitch for them a sweater
with love, to keep them warm
and hidden there within the wool
the pattern for their return

Chorus:

And this man will not be nameless
when they claim him from the swell
There is so much more to this man's life...
That pattern does not tell

This pattern gives his name to him
if he's lost upon the foam
But does not tell much of his life
or those he left at home

Of the loving nights with tallow lights
the laughter and the tears
It speaks his name but does not sing
the song of all our years

Chorus:

I remember all the love I felt
while stitching slow and even
The tenderness he spoke to me
upon his sea-bound leavin'

Now I sit beside this peat fire
dreaming of my lover, gone
And cry and sing a prayer
for the pattern of my son

Chorus:

And this boy will not be nameless
When they claim him from the swell
There is so much more to this boy's life...
That the pattern does not tell

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Neil Comer
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 06:17 PM

There is a saying in Irish which runs: Bíonn a cuid féin ag an fharraige- the sea has its share. Only too true

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 05:55 PM

They and the survivors will be in my thoughts and prayers. God bless them. And thankyou for letting us know about it. It makes you wonder if this is "newsworthy" enough to make the papers.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 05:53 PM

Thanks Roger - as my heart ached from this tragic news it found a degree of release in your words.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 05:42 PM

Seafaring communities are special indeed and the losses affect so many. My thoughts are with the ones left behind.

As always Roger....Simply beautiful.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Little dorritt
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 05:07 PM

My husband grew up in the trawling community of the Hessle road in Hull. He went to sea at fifteen and saw more losses in that tight knit community than he cares to mention. It is long since behind him, and he has moved on with his life, but its a very sombre mood in this household. At the back of my mind it really brings home to you how primitive we are despite all our grand technology, we send men in little boats out to sea in dreadful weather. thank you Shambles for the beautiful prose.

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 05:01 PM

Dreadful tragedy, indeed. I remember a similar loss about 10-15 years ago when a boat called the Evelyn Marie went down off Donegal. The disaster produced a good commemorative song - small consolation though it be.

Regards

Subject: RE: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 04:54 PM

My family fished for generations
It was all that we knew
The village bore it's losses
Together, we would see it through
Now the Sunbeam dies in the harbour
We are paid to tear her apart
Now I may not perish on the ocean
But, still the fishing's in my heart

Subject: Loss of all hands in the irish sea
From: Little Dorritt
Date: 12 Jan 00 - 04:47 PM

The Solway Harvester, a scallop dredger was lost with all hands today, in terrible conditions in the Irish Sea. seven crew members, six from one village, aged between 22-17, are drowned.

Are all folks songs political? Probably, but some are just borne out of the tragedy of everyday living. I am reminded of all those fishing songs 'Three Score and Ten' 'Harry Eddon' and how stupidly in my own mind I created an image of another era, when things like that happened. More guilty still, the words trip off the tongue without making the connection between the song and the reality. Today it has brought it home to me.