Working men's clubs, UK

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:23 PM

Gosh! It's scary to think they could tell.

I mostly played lead guitar on the Irish Country scene around Greater Manchester. That music was much more to my taste and the venues were much more convivial and welcoming than the working mens' clubs.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 10:55 AM

"Yes Dave, I did the WMC's - I was universally hated! "

"I'm sure that last bit isn't true! :-) "

It certainly was for me.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:01 PM

Absolutely Stanron! I guess you had to be there.

For one thing there were about a million degrees of separation between us and the WMC audience. Education, culture, musical experience, sense of humour, social attitude.
We were (as folkies) quite unfitted for the job of entertaining these people
But you've heard the traddies on Mudcat - there was no room for us on the folk scene. No prospect of earning a living.
But we had to earn money to afford instruments, strings, put food on the table, etc. And we had to be musicians. Nothing else gave you the time to work and concentrate on music. So you played music that wasn't really your bag - you did your best. I played country and western solo and in a group, ordinary singalong sixties stuff, Irish songs in the great theme bar nonsense, in old peoples homes, care homes.. I was just a jobbing singer guitarist. I even managed to write the German pop song. But i was no more a working man, Irish or a country and western cowboy than I was German.

Howeveryou did learn how to get people up dancing, singing along , etc and quite a lot of folksingers didn't and indeed took pleasure in confronting populat taste, rather than trying to assimilate like we did.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 05:42 AM

Sorry I never noticed I didn't answer this.

Yes Dave, I did the WMC's - I was universally hated!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 23 - 09:42 AM

We can always tell, Stanron :-D

Jim - echoes of The Wheeltappers and Shunters social club!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:02 PM

Yebbut you're Tory Stanron :-D

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 06:06 AM

I'm sure that last bit isn't true! :-)

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 01:15 PM

sorry about that

The Trimdon Folk band were playing in a Co Durham WMC many years ago. The band had a fine girl singer Dottie Siddle. She was well into a heartfelt re,ndition of 'Blackwaterside' when the club chairman rushed the stage, grabbed the mike, and announced....

'Aa thowt ye'se all wid like te knaa- the pies have come'

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 06:07 AM

I clearly remember doing a job at Bacup Working Men’s Club with the Oldham Tinkers. I set up the mixing desk on the snooker table, which didn’t seem to be a problem, but they told me off for sticking one of my speakers on the bingo machine!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 23 - 09:42 AM

We can always tell, Stanron :-D

Jim - echoes of The Wheeltappers and Shunters social club!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 01:15 PM

sorry about that

The Trimdon Folk band were playing in a Co Durham WMC many years ago. The band had a fine girl singer Dottie Siddle. She was well into a heartfelt re,ndition of 'Blackwaterside' when the club chairman rushed the stage, grabbed the mike, and announced....

'Aa thowt ye'se all wid like te knaa- the pies have come'

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:23 PM

Gosh! It's scary to think they could tell.

I mostly played lead guitar on the Irish Country scene around Greater Manchester. That music was much more to my taste and the venues were much more convivial and welcoming than the working mens' clubs.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:02 PM

Yebbut you're Tory Stanron :-D

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 12:01 PM

Absolutely Stanron! I guess you had to be there.

For one thing there were about a million degrees of separation between us and the WMC audience. Education, culture, musical experience, sense of humour, social attitude.
We were (as folkies) quite unfitted for the job of entertaining these people
But you've heard the traddies on Mudcat - there was no room for us on the folk scene. No prospect of earning a living.
But we had to earn money to afford instruments, strings, put food on the table, etc. And we had to be musicians. Nothing else gave you the time to work and concentrate on music. So you played music that wasn't really your bag - you did your best. I played country and western solo and in a group, ordinary singalong sixties stuff, Irish songs in the great theme bar nonsense, in old peoples homes, care homes.. I was just a jobbing singer guitarist. I even managed to write the German pop song. But i was no more a working man, Irish or a country and western cowboy than I was German.

Howeveryou did learn how to get people up dancing, singing along , etc and quite a lot of folksingers didn't and indeed took pleasure in confronting populat taste, rather than trying to assimilate like we did.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 10:55 AM

"Yes Dave, I did the WMC's - I was universally hated! "

"I'm sure that last bit isn't true! :-) "

It certainly was for me.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 06:07 AM

I clearly remember doing a job at Bacup Working Men’s Club with the Oldham Tinkers. I set up the mixing desk on the snooker table, which didn’t seem to be a problem, but they told me off for sticking one of my speakers on the bingo machine!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 06:06 AM

I'm sure that last bit isn't true! :-)

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 23 - 05:42 AM

Sorry I never noticed I didn't answer this.

Yes Dave, I did the WMC's - I was universally hated!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 21 - 07:35 AM

Did you do WMC's, Al?

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 12:28 PM

I'm only going from what people told me. I'd never been to Ireland at that point.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 12:10 PM

And you’re right, those guys were fabulous musicians.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 12:09 PM

”The English Country scene received a massive shot in the arm of talent when the disco craze drove out the Irish Showbands in the late 1970's. The Irish guys were brilliant musicians.

Was it the disco craze that put paid to the Showbands? My recollection is that the Miami Showband assassinations in 1975 was the beginning of the end, when it became too dangerous to travel the roads late at night, but it was 46 years ago, and my memory gets hazier seemingly by the day!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 10:32 AM

Yep, The Hillsiders were extremely good, and made quite a few BBC Radio appearances, IIRC.. Also very good were ‘Carolina’ (including my friends Pete and Veronica Capaldi, plus a great pedal-steel player whose name I’ve forgotten), and a Doncaster band, ‘The Daltons’ (the main singer being Marilyn Smith, Sheridan’s mum) - both bands were very popular in the WMCs in Notts, Yorks, Leics, and Lincs.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 09:11 AM

Do you remember The Hillsiders C and W band. They were massive in WMC's at the time.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 08:16 AM

'tis Johnny McEvoy, so it is.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 07:39 AM

Oops! Should have been...

”ff you look at MacEvoys work at the time - it runs from Shores of Amerikay to Hickory Wind - traddy to The Eagles”

Sounds OK to me, I still drag ‘Hickory Wind’ out from time to time.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 07:37 AM

”ff you look at MacEvoys work at the time - it runs from Shores of Amerikay to Hickory Wind - traddy to The Eagles”

Sounds OK to me, I still drag ‘Hickory Wind’ out from time to time.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jun 21 - 06:23 AM

What I forgot to say was that The Bachelors, at one time, were very much part of the Dublin folk scene.

John Wall, the Leeds agent , who ran the Nashville club. Told me of the times he used to book Christy Moore to do his club and dig his garden for a fiver.

Also he used to book Johnny MacEvoy. I think he'd had the hit over in Ireland with Muirsheen Durkin, and Noel Murphy was doing it in the clubs over here.

If you look at MacEvoys work at the time - it runs from Shores of Amerikay to Hickory Wind - traddy to The Eagles. I don't think the distinctions can be quite as sharp amongst musicians over in Ireland.

But we English, we take our class system down every avenue.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jun 21 - 04:37 PM

Dave, don’t forget Jack Hudson’s appearance as the detective in Peter Kay’s ‘Phoenix Nights’. He didn’t get to play and sing in the show, but it was good to see his face.

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jun 21 - 04:01 PM

Yes! I had forgotten Fivepenny Piece. Maybe the Houghton Weavers as well. I would also assume that if Bob Williamson did WMCs (and cameos in Peter Kay's Pheonix Club :-) ) then Bernard Wrigley, Mike Harding, Jasper Carrot etc. may have done so too?

You have kicked off the earworm "Don't cry for my old Cortina" now!

Subject: RE: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Jun 21 - 03:35 PM

Well there were definitely folkbands who had that sort of vibe - I'm thinking Fivepenny Piece.

Hamish Imlach worked the Scottish holiday Camps - until someone from head office said he was too Scottish.

In more recent years Bob Stokes, the Dublin Busker played the holiday camps. His brother was John Stokes who played bass for years in The Bachelors - who were regulars at The Talk of the Midlands Club in Derby.

Bob Williamson the folk comedian did Lancashire WMC's. I remember him telling me that Brownsville Banned were too way out for the WMC's - though they were very popular in the more showbiz folkclubs.

There was definitely great confluences.

The English Country scene received a massive shot in the arm of talent when the disco craze drove out the Irish Showbands in the late 1970's. The Irish guys were brilliant musicians.

Subject: Working men's clubs, UK
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jun 21 - 04:30 AM

Big Al mentioned Miner's welfare clubs on another thread which set me off down memory lane. I well remember the Pendlebury Miner's Welfare as being the place to go in the 70's but I don't recall seeing any real big names there. This piece in the Irish Times has a good short history of the phenomenon they became, particularly in the North East of England.

Al mentioned the domestic Country and Western scene that thrived in these clubs and I guess there must have been some showcasing folk music at times. Anyone have any memories of such?