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The OBON song (One Britain One Nation)
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Subject: The OBON song From: Jack Campin Date: 23 Jun 21 - 10:38 AM Story about its origins: https://www.indy100.com/news/one-britain-one-nation-explained-b1871171 Any sightings of parodies yet? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Gallus Moll Date: 23 Jun 21 - 01:46 PM The fascists can get this tae.....!!!! Fortunately Scotland has a separate education system, I believe most Scottish school holidays will have begun prior to Friday - oh what a shame (NOT) |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Joe Offer Date: 23 Jun 21 - 06:20 PM Gee, I thought it was only we Americans who engaged in such jingoism. https://metro.co.uk/video/schoolchildren-encouraged-sing-patriotic-song-one-britain-one-nation-day-2445691/?ito=vjs-link The lyrics to the song, which the organisation claim was written by schoolchildren in Bradford, are as follows: One Britain One Nation Chorus: We are Britain And we have one dream To unite all people In one great team (repeat)
Our nation survived through many storms and many wars We've opened our doors, and widened our island's shores We celebrate our differences with love in our hearts United forever, never apart We are Britain And we have one dream To unite all people In one great team (repeat)
So many different races, standing in the same place So many different faces, moving at the same pace We all stand together with pride in our hearts United forever, never apart We are Britain And we have one dream To unite all people In one great team (repeat)
Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Na-a-tion. Source: https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/23/what-is-one-britain-one-nation-and-what-are-the-lyrics-to-their-song-14817409/ |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Captain Swing Date: 23 Jun 21 - 06:36 PM I worked with a lot of headteachers over the years. I don't think there are many that would let this trash see light of day in their schools. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: DaveRo Date: 24 Jun 21 - 03:23 AM The song is dire, and the idea of all schools being encouraged to sing it is potentually divisive. I hope schools quietly ignore it or there'll be demonstrations at school gates on Friday. But the organisation promoting this (based in Bradford - an area with a high 'Asian' population) claims some admirable aims https://www.onebritainonenation.com/our-vision No doubt the word 'Nation' will be much discussed (and 'Britain'). Is the reference to 'many wars' there to match the populist British identity myth and sneak in the main message? I'm surprised the UK government actually supports it. 'OBON' seems to be a Trademark, I see. Maybe it's a commercial venture and we'll see OBON T-shirts. (Bradford is a major textile-prucing town.) |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 21 - 03:45 AM Tub thumping drivel |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Jun 21 - 04:38 AM Bradford has one of the highest densities of immigrants in the UK, including Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Ukranians, Poles and many more. Bearing this in mind, if the song was written by schoolchildren there, it may not be the nationalistic jingo that some seem to think. Such a mixed race community wanting one nation is something to be admired. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 24 Jun 21 - 04:54 AM Obviously a 'rap' song, with a capital 'C'. One Britain, one nation. Britain is not a nation, it is an island. The 'nation' is either singular, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, or multiple nations: England, (Northern) Ireland, Scotland and Wales. This supposedly 'inclusive' 'anthem' has already discarded Northern Ireland. It comes as no surprise that this comes from Bradford, which, by many accounts, is not the best integrated of societies. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 24 Jun 21 - 05:36 AM re the understandable nature of patriotism in Bradford as sympathetically described by DnG- That's all fine, but it's musical & literary drivel socould you make that nation England please, and leave Scotland out of it? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Jack Campin Date: 24 Jun 21 - 06:35 AM The choice of launch date is interesting. Most schools in Scotland will have just closed for the summer. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Derrick Date: 24 Jun 21 - 06:53 AM From what I have read about the song,it seems to be part of a school project to promote integration and understanding in a mixed ethnic school. The song was written by the children. The idea to have an Obon day and sing the song in all schools appears to have come from our illustrious leader the accident prone Boris Johnson. The idea smacks of patriotic jingoism of the Empire Day kind. The prime minister on the other hand seems to be determined to break up the UK by his policies on Northern Ireland and Scotland. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,RA Date: 24 Jun 21 - 07:20 AM On the plus side, what an honour for all those school children to have co-written such a wonderfully powerful, memorable, lyrically and musically unrivalled song which is sure to supplant all current 'national anthems', becoming the one true British National Anthem - meaning these lucky kids will be able to retire on the PRS and Spotify royalties from the song's perpetual use, and never have to work a day in their lives! |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Jun 21 - 07:47 AM It comes as no surprise that this comes from Bradford, which, by many accounts, is not the best integrated of societies. Really Nigel? I worked at Morrisons HQ in Bradford for 10 years and it was an amazingly integrated workplace. Some 5 years back there was a report that included it in the least intergrated places but I could link you to many other accounts that dispute that. And do you have to call music that you don't like "Crap"? Did you do any better when you were at school? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 24 Jun 21 - 09:41 AM Did you do any better when you were at school? As I read it, this wasn't the composition of a single person, but of a group. The Telegraph even goes a little further: The anthem was composed - with help from their music teacher - by pupils of St John's CE Primary School in Bradford in 2019 We can only guess at the extent of the teacher's input in this. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST Date: 24 Jun 21 - 11:01 AM could we guess his politics too?- the union isn't flavour of the month north of Gretna |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Jun 21 - 11:22 AM McGonagall lives. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Jeri Date: 24 Jun 21 - 11:38 AM Re-arrange as needed: NPB It's a lovely little ditty. Are you one of their moles, Dave? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Jack Campin Date: 24 Jun 21 - 12:33 PM Parody already No better than the original unfortunately. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,# Date: 24 Jun 21 - 12:39 PM McGonagall strikes again. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Jun 21 - 01:32 PM So, a bunch of kids under 11 come up with a song praising the open door policy that welcomed all, celebrating all the different cultures within the one community and promoting integration of different races, yet people here are slagging them off? So what if the teacher did help? How else could a bunch of under 11's be expected to be cohesive enough to do anything like this without some sort of supervision? Come on, people, get a life! You may not like it but it is far from the jingoistic crap some are suggesting. Nor is it the work of the far right organisation that you suggest I am working for, Jeri. You, as a moderator, should know well that I was one of the main targets of their attack dog and was very active in bringing him to task. I am surprised at you. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Jun 21 - 02:37 PM That was uncalled for, Jeri. The song may well be a buttock-clencher in some regards, but far-right it most patently isn't. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Jun 21 - 03:13 PM I'm not sure it's in the same buttock clenching league as Clive Dunn's "Grandad" or St Winifred's school choir with "There's no-one quite like Grandma" but thanks anyway, Steve :-D |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Steve Shaw Date: 24 Jun 21 - 05:37 PM It's all good in m'humble, Dave. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 24 Jun 21 - 05:54 PM I think the problem is there is the original idea about anti-racism in their local area etc. Then there are Tory MP's trying to hijack it into a pro union campaign. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Jack Campin Date: 24 Jun 21 - 06:49 PM That part of the world has form for starting campaigns that go catastrophically pearshaped. The worldwide anti-blasphemy campaign against Salman Rushdie was originated by the Bradford Council of Mosques to hit back against Thatcher for cutting their social services funding. At the end of the day and after hundreds of deaths, Thatcher got to use Rushdie as a trophy. Good thinking, guys. Meanwhile with the current stushie: Guardian update |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 02:22 AM The Bradford council of mosques does not represent 'that part of the world' Jack. Thanks for your link to the Guardian article though from which I repeat Kash Singh's remarks - “I think we need to celebrate that and create this spirit of oneness and togetherness, and showcase that we’re all one people of this country regardless of where you’re from.” That is the point of the song, not patriotic jingoism. And thanks to Alan Conn for pointing out that the politicians who are trying to use the song for their own agenda are nothing to do with the children or the song itself. As Jeri has already referred us to the organisation that must not be named I will point out that nasty Nick himself tried to subvert folk music and dance into right wing jingoism. He did not succeed due to the campaign by some of us to stop him. The fact that some Tory goon has suggested the song should be sung by all schoolchildren is indeed, as someone said, extremely creepy. But that is not the fault of the children or the song. Whether you like the song or not is irrelevant, its message is sound and rather than slagging it off, maybe you should be railing against those trying to hijack it. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 25 Jun 21 - 05:05 AM Yesterday I heard an item about this on RTE radio. From an Irish point of view there were a few comments about : Our nation survived through many storms and many wars We've opened our doors, and widened our island's shores We celebrate our differences with love in our hearts United forever, never apart Patronising, ignoring the truth about imperialism, racism etc etc. So yes, let's blame the song as well for a message that ignores some hard truths. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,PaulS Date: 25 Jun 21 - 05:12 AM I suspect that the song is not capable of being parodied; can we put out a general request to all people planning to write jingoistic songs? Please use longer lines to give us free rein to fit something entertaining into our parodies. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 25 Jun 21 - 05:42 AM You're quite right, Peter Laban. Currently in Britain, there are moves to instil a new reality into the history of Britain and the Empire. Anyone asking for this is described as 'woke', 'snowflake' rather than facing the facts. Whatever the literary quality of the song words, the Bradford kids are to be commended for their efforts, but as for all the ill-informed and reactionary drivel behind it- quoted by Peter Laban- where did that come from? There is little doubt that the Union Jackery crowd have taken advantage of the kids' work this so like I said, please leave Scotland out of it- we're all off school today anyway! |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,matt milton Date: 25 Jun 21 - 05:56 AM But Dave, its message isn't sound. It doesn't matter who wrote it: I do not want my 8-year old son singing 'strong Britain, great nation' - it is way too close to the slogans of Nazi Germany and fascist Italy. And, as suggested in the post above, the line "our nation survived through many storms and many wars" really rankles, given England's long history of imperial aggression. Ditto "widened our island's shores". The line about faces 'moving at the same pace' bothers me too because statistically we know damn well that certain colours of face very much do NOT move at the same pace as others... The idea that this is the unmediated expression of 'Bradford schoolchildren' is itself a little suspect. IS this draft 1 or draft 20? Anyone with primary school age kids or any experience of teaching knows that teachers always guide kids or work with them when producing poems or songs. If it was a group effort then there will have been decisions taken as to whose words were picked, and which ones... Ultimately though it doesn't matter who wrote it, it's the words themselves that count. It doesn't need to be 'hijacked' by right-wingers, it's already dodgy. I emailed my kid's headteacher and said I hoped they weren't entertaining the idea of any of this. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:06 AM So are we OK with kids singing shitty hymns about a non-existent deity? Where's the outrage? Let's talk about the capacity to deprave and corrupt... |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,matt milton Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:21 AM At non-religious schools, kids won't be singing hymns. So that's not really applicable. My own kid goes to a C of E primary - it's the local school - and does sing songs about God and Jesus. I'd prefer it if he didn't. But we talk to him about it, make it clear that it's not something we believe in and that we regard them as just stories and songs. I regard them as much less problematic than language about 'strong Britain' and enduring wars - the religious songs he gets at school is mostly modern stuff that isn't even especially patriarchal and is mostly about being nice to people. That there are songs sung at school we don't like doesn't mean we should therefore welcome more songs at school we don't like. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:37 AM So are we OK with kids singing shitty hymns about a non-existent deity? What happened to 'scientist' Steve Shaw. The fact that you don't believe in a supreme being doesn't make his/her existence impossible. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave Hanson Date: 25 Jun 21 - 08:11 AM Because so many do believe in a god Nigel doesn't actually make it true. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 08:32 AM Lets have a look at the actual words of the song again before discussing the message, Matt. We are Britain And we have one dream To unite all people In one great team I don't see anything wrong here. It is the kids that have written and sung it. Not the politicians. It is their dream to unite everyone. Sounds a good dream to me. Our nation survived through many storms and many wars We've opened our doors, and widened our island's shores We celebrate our differences with love in our hearts United forever, never apart I would not have used the first line myself but it is certainly true. The next three are a message of unity from the children. Nowt wrong with that. So many different races, standing in the same places So many different faces, moving at the same pace We all stand together with pride in our hearts United forever, never apart Nothoing wrong at all with the message in that verse. Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Na-a-tion. Yea, OK, we can do without that but taken in context I can forgive them. I guess we are just looking at different things. If you just look for the negative, you will concentrate on the outro. If you look for the positive, the message of racial harmont and unity is there. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 08:35 AM Whoops, sorry. Duff HTML from me. Rather than ask the mods to change it, here it is formatted properly - Lets have a look at the actual words of the song again before discussing the message, Matt. We are Britain And we have one dream To unite all people In one great team I don't see anything wrong here. It is the kids that have written and sung it. Not the politicians. It is their dream to unite everyone. Sounds a good dream to me. Our nation survived through many storms and many wars We've opened our doors, and widened our island's shores We celebrate our differences with love in our hearts United forever, never apart I would not have used the first line myself but it is certainly true. The next three are a message of unity from the children. Nowt wrong with that. So many different races, standing in the same places So many different faces, moving at the same pace We all stand together with pride in our hearts United forever, never apart Nothing wrong at all with the message in that verse. Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Nation Strong Britain, Great Na-a-tion. Yea, OK, we can do without that but taken in context I can forgive them. I guess we are just looking at different things. If you just look for the negative, you will concentrate on the outro. If you look for the positive, the message of racial harmont and unity is there. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 25 Jun 21 - 08:48 AM As I said, one of the Irish comments on RTE was 'widened our shores', sure, they did, for 800 years. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:00 AM Well Peter, you can read that as empire building if you like. I read it as opening the door to other people. Maybe I am more on the wavelength of 11 year olds :-) As I said before, if you look for the negative, you will find it. I guess this thread is no longer about the song though so will probably end up in the basement. I am glad that you, Matt and some other guests have had the opportunity to share your thoughts before that happens. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,matt milton Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:07 AM Well exactly! You don't have to be Irish to have spotted that one. Given that OBON was formed in 2013, it's safe to say that these Bradford schoolchildren did not come up with the title and theme of their song - One Britain One Nation - entirely independently. (It would be rather terrifying if they had) I just had a look at the OBON site - its narrative of national pride is a load of tosh and I don't want it clogging up my kid's education. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:21 AM Again, Matt, we seem to be seeing different things in the same message. The mission statement on their opening page is One Britain One Nation brings us together, not to focus on our differences but to celebrate the values we share: tolerance, kindness, pride, respect, and a tremendous desire to help others. Today’s Britain boasts a wonderful array of cultures. It is our multicultural identity that makes Britain so unique. Our diverse cultures are inextricably linked by the sole fact that we are British. It is this fact that has prompted OBON to reinforce and revive what collectively unites us. OBON aims to give a new impetus for the creation of a harmonised society, to make Britain an international model of moral rectitude. How that is a narrative of national pride is beyond me I'm afraid. It is a message I have always taught my kids and grankids, and maybe spreading it in school could help dispel much of the racism we see. Perhaps, as the son of a Polish immigrant who was welcomed into Britain after the war and forever sang its praises, I am more in tune with the message of diversity and racial harmony than some. It is a pipe dream at the moment but everything has to start somewhere. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Howard Jones Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:24 AM OBON was founded by a Sikh who came to this country at the age of 6 and whose parents were factory workers. He apparently wanted to celebrate what he calls "this brilliant country" and the opportunities it gave him. I think we can probably assume he is well aware of racism and imperialism. The song is dire, but the intention is good. He has said "I think we need to celebrate that and create this spirit of oneness and togetherness, and showcase that we're all one people of this country regardless of where you're from." These are sentiments that those on the left usually agree with. The government's backing has probably done the organisation no favours. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:48 AM Thank you, Howard. All good points. I particularly like the last one :-) |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:58 AM The kids' sentiments are fine- the problem is we aren't 'one nation'- the DUP might want to be, but I think Mark Drakeford and Nicola Sturgeon might have something to say about this wonderful alleged 'unity'. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 12:31 PM I don't think it's owt to do with Scottish, Welsh or Irish nationalism, Jim. To me it's all about accepting people into the community. Britain was probably a poor choice of label for the encompassing nation they describe but I doubt anyone under 11 understands that. Hey, many adults don't know the difference between England, Britain, the UK and the British Isles! Particularly across the pond ;-) |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Howard Jones Date: 25 Jun 21 - 01:26 PM Whilst it may not be technically correct, in ordinary usage "Britain" usually stands for the UK as a whole. "The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" is a bit of a mouthful. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Modette Date: 25 Jun 21 - 01:38 PM Tell one of the Derry half of my family that she lives in Britain? Never, and don't be silly, Howard. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,JIM BAINBRIDGE Date: 25 Jun 21 - 02:50 PM sorry but Britain (the subject of the song) is not a nation- isn't it a 'union' according to you know who? England is a nation, as are Wales and Scotland. Britain is an island & a geographic term & this is getting a bit political so I'm off now.... |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 02:57 PM As I said, Jim, how many kids under 11 know that? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 25 Jun 21 - 03:44 PM Well they'll NEVER learn the truth unless someone tells them |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Jun 21 - 05:02 PM That's true but politics usually comes at a higher age. And don't try to tell me that dividing up this small island into 3 separate nations is anything but politics! :-) |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:45 PM As I said, Jim, how many kids under 11 know that? As long as people who should know better use mistaken identifications probably very few! That's true but politics usually comes at a higher age. And don't try to tell me that dividing up this small island into 3 separate nations is anything but politics! :-) It is not a case of 'dividing up this small island' this island has never really been a single political unit. (much as the English might think it is!) |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Howard Jones Date: 26 Jun 21 - 07:39 AM "this island has never really been a single political unit" That's an extraordinary statement. The whole of the UK comes under a single government and all parts send representatives to Parliament. Of course there are regional identities and differences, within England itself as well as the other nations, and some regions have devolved powers but these derive from the national government. Of course there is not unity of political opinion, but that is not the same thing. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,jim bainbridge Date: 26 Jun 21 - 08:27 AM Scotland is not a region however much Westminster would like it to be- nor is Wales- Northern Ireland has a different status, but is hardly a region, unless of a future expanded Republic of Ireland. Thats enough from me- I'm with the kids and against the neo-fascists who are using them for their own purposes..... |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:12 AM Exactly why it went down badly among lots of Scots. The idea that Scotland is only a region and not a nation itself. We are a union of nations no matter how some folks deny it. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:30 AM And as long as the politicians can maintain the divisiveness that carving our tiny island into separate nations has achieved they will continue to oppress us ordinary working folk. Global unity is the only way to world peace and if we cannot achieve unity amongst folks living here, what hope does the globe have? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:35 AM It is not about tearing anything apart. Even unionists in Scotland see Scotland as a nation. They just want the said nation to remain in the union. Trying to deny the Scottish nation even exists isn't coming together. It is just denying facts. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:46 AM Who's doing all that then, Allan? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Observer Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:51 AM Hate to point this fact out to a few posting here with regard to "nations" BUT - England AND Scotland ceased to exist as separate nations on the 1st May 1707 when the United Kingdom of Great Britain was created as one single nation. From that date you will not find a single treaty or international agreement signed on behalf of either Scotland or England with any other country in the world. Wales ceased to be a "nation" sometime in either the late 13th or mid 16th century. It's official status has since which ever of those dates you accept been as a Principality. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:53 AM The idea that politicians want to carve us into different nations. We are different nations. Currently these nations are within a political union but we are still nations. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:57 AM More people live in Yorkshire than in Scotland, Allan. Where do we stop dividing? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST Date: 26 Jun 21 - 03:24 PM Maybe London should be a city state like Singapore & leave the rest of us alone? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST Date: 26 Jun 21 - 03:45 PM Dave the Gnome: "More people live in Yorkshire than in Scotland, Allan. Where do we stop dividing?" Are you talking about North, East or West Yorkshire? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: keberoxu Date: 26 Jun 21 - 04:14 PM I agree with whoever name-dropped McGonagall, and where is Little Hawk, anyway, when you need him? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 26 Jun 21 - 04:28 PM Athelstan has a lot to answer for:) Robin |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Observer Date: 27 Jun 21 - 01:36 AM The "Union" that Scotland became an integral part of in 1707 was a full on political, social, economic and monetary "union" with England. Now that is exactly where the EU is headed, that is it's goal. The Treaty of Lisbon was another step along the road towards that as were the Treaties of Rome, Nice and Maastricht. It was to aid that EU aim that Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and Donald Dewar championed and saw in devolution for Wales and Scotland and attempted to politically split up England into [IIRC] 14 different regions [Tone was in the running for the top EU job at the time]. Fortunately "regionalisation" in England was rejected and never came to anything, unfortunately in "regionalising" Tony & Co should have sub-divided both Scotland and Wales so as not to give "nationalists" any historical basis for independence campaigns. Scotland is nation within the United Kingdom as much as Fife is a nation within Scotland. Fourteen years of the politics of division have taken their toll in Scotland and we are rapidly approaching a point where "Balkanisation" would occur should independence be voted for as people in different parts of Scotland vote against being "dragged out of Unions against their will" [Likely candidates Orkney, the Shetlands, the Borders and Dumfries & Galloway, possibly followed by the North-East of Scotland] Best post regarding the song written by Primary School Children was the one posted by Dave the Gnome: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Jun 21 - 04:38 AM Bradford has one of the highest densities of immigrants in the UK, including Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Ukranians, Poles and many more. Bearing this in mind, if the song was written by schoolchildren there, it may not be the nationalistic jingo that some seem to think. Such a mixed race community wanting one nation is something to be admired. It is what it is a song written by children honestly expressing a view about the country THEY want to call home and that THEY want to live in. To us auld yins discussing it here I would like to remind you all that the future is THEIRS, we've had our turn and to be perfectly honest I do not think that WE have made a very good job of it, perhaps these children will do better by learning from OUR mistakes. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 27 Jun 21 - 02:17 AM Scots on the whole see Scotland as a nation and not as a county like Yorkshire or Fife. Yes we are subdivided into regions within Scotland too but the nation as such is still recognised. To compare Scotland to counties is kind of part of the problem rather than any answer. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 27 Jun 21 - 03:29 AM The idea that devolution was something foisted on Scotland by Tony Blair and the EU ignores reality. The campaign for the Scottish Parliament took off basically just as soon as the dust had settled on the 1979 vote and by the mid 80s was kind of on the road to being unstoppable in Scotland itself. The Claim Of Right (see text below) was supported by the big bulk of Scottish politicians, local authorities, trade unions, churches, civic bodies etc. All Lib Dem and Labour MPs supported it bar Tam Dalyell. Only the Tories opposed the idea itself. The SNP did not sign up to it initially as although they obviously regard the Scottish people as sovereign they chose not to initially support the idea of a devolved parliament rather than an independent one. However later in the timeline they too did join the campaign for the devolved parliament. Scotland got the 2nd Devolution vote once Blair came to power basically because he had no choice. It was a major part of Labour policy in Scotland and was supported by many others across Scotland as a whole. Blair himself was not an ardent devolutionist and famously suggested the parliament would be a Parish Council which brought him some flak. It would have been a major loss of face and politically very damaging in Scotland had Labour not brought forward the Devolution vote. Whatever folks in the EU thought - the fact is Scotland got its devolved parliament because Scots wanted it and had campaigned long and hard for it. The thing Labour misjudged of course was in thinking, and openly saying, that devolution would stop the push for independence in its tracks. Rather than killing off the SNP it gave them a platform where they could actually win power. Something that would be impossible to do at Westminster because of the demographics within that chamber. "We, gathered as the Scottish Constitutional Convention, do hereby acknowledge the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of Government best suited to their needs, and do hereby declare and pledge that in all our actions and deliberations their interests shall be paramount. We further declare and pledge that our actions and deliberations shall be directed to the following ends: To agree a scheme for an Assembly or Parliament for Scotland; To mobilise Scottish opinion and ensure the approval of the Scottish people for that scheme; and To assert the right of the Scottish people to secure implementation of that scheme." |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Observer Date: 27 Jun 21 - 03:40 AM 1. Scots on the whole see Scotland as a nation and not as a county like Yorkshire or Fife. How people born in Scotland see Scotland does not alter the FACT, or the REALITY, that Scotland ceased to exist as an independent sovereign state in 1707 - Nothing can alter that apart from a legal referendum in which the electorate of Scotland votes for independence. They did hold such a referendum in 2014 in which 55% voted to remain as part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. As someone who lives in Scotland Alan I am sure that at some point or other you have visited or travelled through Fife and seen the signs welcoming you to "The Kingdom of Fife", I have never seen any such claim for Yorkshire, or any other county for that matter. Fife may, or may not, have been one of seven supposed Pictish sub-kingdoms in ancient times no-one can say one way or the other therefore Fife may never have been a kingdom at all - That for some reason or other doesn't stop "Fifers" referring to, and stating that they come from "The Kingdom of Fife" - Doesn't mean that Fife is a "Kingdom". However we do know that Scotland existed as a separate, independent sovereign realm between 1357 and 1707, it thereafter, along with the separate, independent sovereign realm of England, ceased to exist and a new state, the United Kingdom of Great Britain came into being. 2. Yes we are subdivided into regions within Scotland too but the nation as such is still recognised. This "nation as such" you refer to is recognised by who exactly: - The EU? - The UN? - The Commonwealth of Nations? - The International Olympics Committee? - The Passport Office? |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler Date: 27 Jun 21 - 03:50 AM The Sunday service on Radio 4 this morning has included both "I vow to thee my country" and "Jerusalem". Is this a Church of England backlash? Robin |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Jun 21 - 04:32 AM So, where we stop is decided by you then, Allan? Independence for Scotland but not for Yorkshire? What is that based on? how about we go back to the days of Mercia, Wessex, Northumbia, etc? What about Wales and Cornwall? Or how about we just remain united and try to get on with each other? :-) |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST Date: 27 Jun 21 - 10:38 AM Scotland is a colony DISCUSS |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Jun 21 - 02:16 PM The first victim of British colonialism was the English working class, above guest. Sadly they are still falling for it :-( Back to the message of the song, when we all realise that beneath the skin we are all the same, the divide and conquer tactic will stop working! |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,RA Date: 27 Jun 21 - 02:48 PM "Back to the message of the song, when we all realise that beneath the skin we are all the same, the divide and conquer tactic will stop working!" Sure, we might be all 'the same', as in human, but we don't all identify as British. I certainly don't. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST Date: 27 Jun 21 - 02:53 PM DtG- good luck with convincing China & Russia about us all being the same |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 28 Jun 21 - 04:03 PM I am not talking about English regions. If they wanted to break away then it'd be nothing to do with me but as far as I know there is no serious campaign for anything like that. Red herring. I was talking about Scotland being a nation and the bulk of people in Scotland see it as that. No matter how it seems to annoy some of you guys. They see it is a naion, on the whole, whether they wish to remain in the union or not. That union involved the Kingdom of Scotland not separate individual parts of it. The idea about Fife is patent nonsense. It has the nickname the Kingdom of Fife because it was one of the ancient kingdoms that made up Pictland. It is not about me deciding Fife can't be on its own??? There is no popular movement for Fife to be independent. It is another complete red herring. Scotland is a constituent part of the UK just as England is. As to the decision being up to the people of Scotland then of course it is. Where have I said any different. That is not the point here anyway. I have said several times that Scottish people see Scotland as a nation whether they are unionists or indy supporters. So I have no been arguing for independence in this thread - only pointing out that Scotland is a nation within the union. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 28 Jun 21 - 04:59 PM It doesn't annoy me in the slightest, Allan, but surely the red herring here is talking about Scottish independence in a thread about a song by children wanting to promote racial harmony |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Observer Date: 28 Jun 21 - 08:22 PM Precisely DtG well said!! |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Allan Conn Date: 29 Jun 21 - 02:10 AM As I said it isn't even about Scottish indy it is about the fact that there are several nations within the UK. A couple of posters pointed that out before I commented too. A couple of posters then seem to have a problem with the idea of Scotland being a constituent nation within the UK and GB and instead compare it to counties. Not really about Scottish independence. Though yes for politicians to suggest this song about "one Britain, one nation" should be sung in every school in Britain with everyone waving wee union flags is not realistic and would be looking to politicise it in Scotland. There were quite a few folks on social media talking about whether they should keep their kids off school rather than have them be subject to any union jackery - before everyone realised the Scottish schools were already mostly closed come the actual day anyway. Anyway it wouldn't have happened as education is devolved so just because some politicians down south try and hijack something for their own political motives they have no say over what does and doesn't happen in Scottish schools. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Jack Campin Date: 29 Jun 21 - 04:03 AM a song by children wanting to promote racial harmony As if that's the point of promoting that song now. It's like saying the Horst Wessel Song was about supporting victims of violent crime. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST Date: 29 Jun 21 - 04:43 AM yes, I'm all in favour of the sentiments expressed by the kids, but young folk are guided by teachers & parents. I loathe the way politicians have USED the kids to support their union jackery- Scotland isn't the only NATION to detest all it stands for. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 29 Jun 21 - 04:46 AM Well, as I keep saying. Anyone wanting to find the negative will do so. I prefer to believe that the children who wrote it are innocent of any sinister motive. If you want to discuss the motives of the politicians who have hijacked it, surely that belongs in the UK politics thread. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Peter Laban Date: 29 Jun 21 - 07:43 AM I don't know about those children and their motives. I do think we can say they have not been taught well about their country's history. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 29 Jun 21 - 08:26 AM They are under 11s Peter. I doubt if I knew about the politics that created the UK at that age. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: Steve Shaw Date: 29 Jun 21 - 10:06 AM "Scotland isn't the only NATION to detest all it stands for." Now if I were Scottish I'd be going hell for leather for independence, and I despise Union Jackery in all its forms. But your statement is not accurate: in the last referendum a majority of those who turned out to vote voted to remain in the Union. "The nation" seemed fairly evenly split to me. There are detesters, non-detesters and don't-give-a-shitters each in large numbers, I should think. |
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Subject: RE: The OBON song (One Britain One Nation) From: GUEST,Observer Date: 29 Jun 21 - 11:25 AM "only pointing out that Scotland is a nation within the union" - Allan Conn Correction: Scotland WAS a nation BEFORE the union - just like England WAS Neither officially recognised as being separate sovereign states since 1st May 1707.
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