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Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11

EBarnacle 24 Jun 21 - 10:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 21 - 12:05 AM
EBarnacle 25 Jun 21 - 12:09 AM
Stilly River Sage 25 Jun 21 - 12:13 AM
Joe Offer 25 Jun 21 - 02:39 AM
DaveRo 25 Jun 21 - 02:48 AM
Joe Offer 25 Jun 21 - 03:49 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 21 - 04:56 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 05:32 AM
Bonzo3legs 25 Jun 21 - 06:45 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 07:01 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 07:05 AM
Nick 25 Jun 21 - 07:09 AM
Jos 25 Jun 21 - 07:13 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 07:15 AM
punkfolkrocker 25 Jun 21 - 08:27 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 25 Jun 21 - 09:00 AM
DaveRo 25 Jun 21 - 11:01 AM
Bill D 25 Jun 21 - 11:17 AM
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gnu 25 Jun 21 - 10:43 PM
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Sandra in Sydney 26 Jun 21 - 06:06 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 26 Jun 21 - 06:52 AM
Jon Freeman 26 Jun 21 - 07:44 AM
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Subject: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jun 21 - 10:55 PM

Remember when we were told that Windows 10 was the final version and the rest would just be updates? I just got a notice in my email that they're introducing Windows 11. The note said nothing about it being a free update. We're probably going to end up paying through the nose for this one.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 12:05 AM

This has been breaking news since downloads of a dodgy beta leaked a few days ago.
I read a press release just now stating 11 would be free update
for 10 users..

Obviously needs fact checking...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: EBarnacle
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 12:09 AM

I don't know about the free part but I do know that some of my laptops will not be upgradeable.
They are also promising that Windows 10 will be supported into 2025. Of course, we know how well Microsoft keeps promises.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 12:13 AM

There is a newer version of Win10 coming out, and people who have the Home version of Win10 may be coming to the end of the support if they were an early adopter. They may need to upgrade. Pro versions are doing just fine.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 02:39 AM

I rely most on the news reports from cwnet. They seem to tell the story straight. Here's what they have to say:

I have one computer that had Windows 7 when I bought it, but it has been running Windows 10. I wonder if it will work with the upgrade.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 02:48 AM

The main thing that may affect people here is that it won't run on 32-bit processors - which will mainly be old (probably more than 10 years old) laptops and notebooks.

Also some old (non-uefi) 64-bit computers.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 03:49 AM

I kinda like getting new operating systems, especially if they have useful features and still run all the software. Most of the time, I've found new operating systems to be a nice way to refresh an old computer. I get a new Android operating system on my phone every year or so, and that's been fun.
So I'm hoping that this new Windows 11 will help me solve my biggest computer problem - how to find stuff on my computer. I'd like photos and documents and spreadsheets and recordings to be easy to find. And in all the years I've had computers (since 1988), that has been a perennial problem.
A previous version of Windows had libraries, and that seemed to be a pretty good idea - but it got confusing at times and now Windows 10 only half-heartedly supports it.
Guess I'll wait and see.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 04:56 AM

But surely you can open folders where ever you want them in Windows 10???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 05:32 AM

As my laptop's memory is close to full, I've been googling every few months or so to see if a new operating system may come out, towards buying a new computer; but, thinking it was not going to happen, bought a 60GB SDXC memory card last year, which I have been saving this year's photos on...it seems, probably along with many others, I now have a dilemma...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 06:45 AM

Do you have SSD drive? The increased speed in our 16 years old laptop is remarkable, and is now happily running Windows 10!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:01 AM

Yes, Bonzo - but only 120 GB (they expect us to use cloud storage, I think) with only 16.5 GB left (I think we are supposed to leave about that much for updates, etc.). Thus, I added the above 60 GB card.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:05 AM

...I also have everything stored on a couple of memory sticks in my bag, such that, if anything happened to my flat/laptop, all would not be lost.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Nick
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:09 AM

Joe - I'm a big fan of Everything and use it to find things on my machine rather than any windows search


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jos
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:13 AM

Just as long as you don't lose your bag ...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:15 AM

Jos - for that and something to go wrong with my flat/computer on the same outing/day would be extremely unlucky, yes?!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 08:27 AM

Having experienced serious problems updating to free Windows 10 when it was first released,
I rolled back to win 8.1..

Since then I am now running two PCs and two laptops on win 8.1.

Do I really want the aggravation of updating them to Windows 10,
so they can be then updated free to 11...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:00 AM

I've checked and it seems Windows 11 will be free for those with Windows 10, as PFR says.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:01 AM

I ran the Windows 11 Health Check app (link in Joe's CNET post) on my wife's Thinkpad L430, a 'business' laptop which I though would run Win 11. It is perhaps 8 years old and has a 64-bit processor. (I recently put an SSD in it.)

The Health Check app said no, but didn't say why not. I suspected the reason is that Win 11 requires a TPM (Trusted Platform Module) version 2. I followed the procedure HERE to check that and discovered that the laptop has version 1.2

TPM v2 was released in 2014 but laptops with v1.2 may have been sold after that date.

So it looks like Windows 10 really will be the last version for many machines ;)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:17 AM

Joe- ".. - how to find stuff on my computer"

The absolutely best way I've found is a little program called
http://indexyourfiles

It very quickly uses a basic internal database to..ummm..index the files.

All I have to do is tell it which drives (or external drives) to search and give it a key word or phrase. Results are almost instant.

It has saved me many, many times... especially song titles or lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:46 AM

I don't bother but, if someone tends to remember roughly when they created folders and they have a lot, names can be started with year, month then day - e.g., 2021.06.25


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 03:21 PM

I 've downloaded the Win11 iso, and will try to do an upgrade from Win7 Enterprise on a 16 years old PC!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM

...and, if that works, Bonzo may move on to the Tasmanian tiger, closely followed by the dodo...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 04:04 PM

Bonz - is that the first version proper release ISO, or still a beta ?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 04:11 PM

I see what you mean!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 07:40 PM

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/windows-11-home-and-pro

TechRadar in-depth report on what to expect from win 11..

Looks like it won't be released officially until much later this year...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 09:37 PM

C|Net is where I get a lot of my tech news also, Joe. I'll have to look into this - the main thing I DON'T want is an automatic upgrade to the new system. I'd like them to work out a few of the bugs first.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 10:43 PM

Well, they still aren't finished working out the bugs in WIN 10, SRS. Bothers me greatly, but I don't have the $$$ for an Apple, and I am not tech savvy enough for other OSs.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Jun 21 - 11:35 PM

Apple is for zealots. :)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 05:55 AM

My computer guru advises "Basically the min spec for W11 is crazy over-the-top (I think there may be a climb-down from MS, but we'll see) as even high spec PCs don't qualify"
and
"as things stand, W11 is essentially a cash-grab for the PC industry (or so it seems to me) and a push by MS to require online accounts (a number of features are locked behind an arbitrary MS account requirement)."

Anyway Micro$oft say they're continuing support for Win 10 for a few years yet, so we can afford to wait and see what happens.

All the changes to the user interface seem another instance of Micro$oft's general policy of "if it ain't broke, mess about with it anyway, and if it confuses users that's their problem".


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 06:06 AM

well said, Richard - "if it ain't broke, mess about with it anyway, and if it confuses users that's their problem".

That also applies so Google's "upgrade" of Blogger to make it easier for folk who blog short, instant updates on their phones - look at my kid/dog/garden - hell for the rest of us who create larger articles with lots of text & pics.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 06:52 AM

Yes, Sandra - can't remember if it was early this year or late last, but recall the changes to Blogger required considerably different processes to edit, etc., which took me a while to fathom, frankly.

That said, I think it is a good choice for anyone who wishes for their own site on the web - free (unlike some hosts that are only free for a limited number of visits) and if, unlike me, you wish to go pro and add ads, it still seems easy to do.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 07:44 AM

Did you mean TPM 2.0 rather than 2.1 above, Dave.

I just had a look at what it would mean to me (not that I want Windows on our main PCs).

My (I guess about 5 or 6 year old) ASUS laptop has TPM 2.0.

I’ve only looked at my own PC (Gigabyte 970A-DS3P BIOS dated in 2015) but all 3 PCs in regular use here are of similar AMD970 chipset build and age. Mine doesn’t have TPM support but should have a socket on the motherboard to take a TPM module. Gigabyte offer a few modules for their motherboards but I don’t think I’d find a 2.0 one for mine.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 08:33 AM

The Windows 11 ISO is 4,760,306kb, so it won't burn to a DVD and it won't copy to a FAT32 formatted USB. So you either need ISO shrink software or format a USB drive to NTFS!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 08:49 AM

A dual layer DVD?

Perhaps when all else fails, there is always the good old dd found as std on most Linux systems but be warned it will just take what you tell it to do without warning.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 09:37 AM

Oh, and, it is mentioned in my link but balena Ethcher is a pretty good cross platform (Linux, Windows and Mac) tool for getting ISOs onto USB drives.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 09:56 AM

Jon Freeman wrote: Did you mean TPM 2.0 rather than 2.1 above, Dave.
That puzzled me! A sans font and proportional spacing probably contributed to your question ;)

I've looked into it further. It seems MS are saying you need an 8th Generation processor to run Windows 11. Who on earth knows what generation their processor is? Anyway after a lot googling I discovered that the Thinkpad is 3rd Generation and that 8th Generation CPUs were introduced in 2017; see here. As Richard said, that requirement might be relaxed (I think they might drop it to 7th gen, which was the first processor that only supports Win 10) but I don't see the requirement for TPM 2 changing.

I think this new version of Windows is mainly driven by Microsoft's strategy of converging traditional desktops/laptops and touch/mobile devices. Also, I suspect, to simplify the code by dropping stuff inherited from earlier versions - like 32-bit processors. (Though it'll still run 32-bit programs, so Simple Piano should still work :)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 10:22 AM

LOL Dave. 2.1 was my misreading of your post which just gives version 2.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:04 AM

At a quick attempt, CPU generation seems to me to be maker dependent. New AMD Ryzen processors appear to be at generation 4 but in Intel terms, generation 4 could take us back to 2013,

I think...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:19 AM

Looks like it will soon be time for another crash course in computing.

As a related topic, I was setting up a new tablet last week and the Google/Android part asked for my registered FIDO (I use Yubico) that I've used with full-sized computers for several years now. The tablet had only the micro USB plug, so I used another authentication method and got a code from my phone Authenticator. I ended up shopping around and picking up a converter female USB down to the male micro USB and the class C for phones and tablets. This isn't the first small device to ask for this, and I've been meaning to find a converter.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:31 AM

Jon: I should have said Intel Generation 8. Windows 11 requires "8th Gen Intel Core or 2nd Gen AMD Ryzen".

It doesn't mention other processor manufacturers. IBM for example make their POWER9 cpu as used in the powerful, and expensive, Talos II.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:33 AM

Registered Fido...???

What.. the world is getting weirder..

.. we need dog licences to run a computer now...!!!???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 11:57 AM

Two-factor authentication. Yubico. There is one on my keychain in my pocket. They're pretty durable. I used it on my computer at work and at home starting several years ago. Fast IDentity Online


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 12:51 PM

refresh... hoping Joe Offer saw my answer to his local search problem


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 12:55 PM

Thanks Dave. That CPU spec would count everything here out. I'm pretty sure my laptop is an Intel (apparently 6th generation) Skylake, and the PCs are pre AMD socket 4 Ryzen.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 01:37 PM

SRS; Do the Yubico key and the tablet have NFC?

This Google Pixel C tablet doesn't, despite it being a top-end device in its day. Pixel phones generally do. Perhaps it's because the main use is probably e-payments and peope don't use tablets to pay for things.

This is all related to the requirement for TPM chips in Windows 11 - secure authentication of the user and holding 2FA keys.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Jun 21 - 02:41 PM

We can only hope that Microsoft are remembering to provide a stable and reliable operating system for musicians and graphics artists.

It's only in the last year or so that major music software developers are forcing upgrades that are only supported on win 10...

That will be the win 10 that many musicians including myself have rejected as too unstable...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 01:02 AM

Win 11 pisses off consumers


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 12:45 PM

I have a big desk with two computers. One is old and runs on Windows 7. It is not connected to the Internet but does a beautiful job with MIDI software and Noteworthy Composer. The other is on Windows 10 and handles all our online activities.

When I want to transfer data between computers, I use a thumbdrive.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 02:15 PM

do you have malware protection on either of your computers?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 03:11 PM

There is a transfer cable with software built into it (the big end is basically a drive with the installed software). I also have a non-Internet computer on the next desk in my office, and I run the transfer cable between the two. The fat end is on the Internet connected computer. Anyway, the software is installed on both (EasySuite) and you open it on both devices then get the local and remote screen on both. I drag stuff back and forth between the two regularly (the old computer has the newer computer software that I can't replace without subscribing for Adobe monthly service, so I do a lot of my photo and design work there, and drag the results into the newer computer.) Radio Shack makes a good one that I got on sale from them a couple of years ago. I see that Amazon sells Radio Shack's cable much cheaper.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 21 - 11:30 PM

Windows 11 reminds the PC ecosystem of the value of major releases

After years of anonymous Windows tweaks, Microsoft's big reveal celebrates the PC at a time when new Mac features have become largely about tying it more tightly into the rest of Apple's products and services.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jul 21 - 08:47 AM

"Yes, Bonzo - but only 120 GB (they expect us to use cloud storage, I think) with only 16.5 GB left (I think we are supposed to leave about that much for updates, etc.). Thus, I added the above 60 GB card."

No way will I entrust my data to cloud storage. I have a 500gb ssd and 500HDD in my Lenovo Thinkcentre.

I can't remember if I put this elsewhere, but 2 weeks ago I ran the MS utility to see if my Thinkcentre can run Windows 11. It told me that "secure boot" was not enabled - easily remedied in bios..........but then on restart I got "Error 1962: No operating system found. Boot sequence will automatically repeat." So Lenovo owners beware!

After many frustrating hours of trying to solve the problem using various "fixes" I came accross a fix that worked. All that was necessary was a couple of tweaks to the start up bios - enable CSM, and in Boot Priority change Legacy First to UEFI First, whatever that does. Then on startup I got the endless circle followed by the magic words "Getting Devices Ready" - home and dry!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Jul 21 - 07:57 AM

An invitation to upgrade to Windows 11 appeared on my work PC today!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jul 21 - 02:29 AM

Windows 11: What we like and don't like about Microsoft's operating system so far

Upgrade from Windows 10 is free. Windows 10 will be supported until October 14, 2025.

"Even Windows backup is still there in Control Panel, under the mysterious label "Backup and Restore (Windows 7)." This is the same as on Windows 10, though worth mentioning here, since unlike the strongly promoted File History in the Settings applet, this old-style backup actually is a full backup of the system that can be saved to a drive and taken offline – just the thing in these days of ransomware."

I'm not sure this is correct. When my wife's machine was upgraded to Win 10 I continued to use 'Win 7 backup' (in addition to File History) to backup monthly to a local drive. But after a recent reinstall it said that it was only capable of restoring backups but not making new ones. Anybody using 'Win 7 backup' to a local disk on Win 10?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Ed.
Date: 21 Jul 21 - 12:13 PM

Anybody using 'Win 7 backup' to a local disk on Win 10?

Dave,

See my Windows Backup queries thread.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jul 21 - 01:58 PM

microsoft states a great deal of mumbo jumbo about requirements for upgrading to Windows 11. I shall wait for a preactivated version first!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jul 21 - 05:40 PM

Installed Windows 11 on 8 year old PC - TPM bypassed!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jul 21 - 02:03 AM

I don't like the start menu in the middle of the screen - lunacy!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 21 - 10:29 AM

I have Windows 7 backup set to run weekly on my Win10 machine. There really isn't another Windows option. Long gone are the days of Norton Ghost. . .


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 02:43 AM

Very annoying that Windows 11 does not allow installation of my TP-link 722N wifi adaptor, and that it will not allow you to see the characters when putting in the router password.

Taskbar is now aligned left and looks better.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 08:04 AM

I don't mean the Taskbar, I mean the Start Menu!! Unfortunately the video bit of the motherboard is on the blink as it turns very bright after a couple of hours.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 05:06 AM

I also installed the beta version on a 12 year old desktop, that is a beta version doesn't check for the TPM module and secure boot!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 04:19 PM

They certainly lied about Windows 11, I have no option to roll back to Windows 10!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 07:49 AM

It seems to be a bug in latest version. Oddly once the TPM and secure boot checks are jumped by a Windows 10 substitute appraiserres-dll file, no further checks are made from updates....................so far!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 08:30 AM

New software is not a cure for the world wide hack.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 08:38 AM

Good fun though!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jul 21 - 01:45 AM

Just messing around with hard discs - an Insider version of Windows 11 (with tmp and secure boot search removed) will install over Windows 7 provided that you do a clean install - so there's no going back of course!

Updates do not include tmp and secure boot search so far, but versions "amended" for older machines will slways be there!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 28 Jul 21 - 02:30 AM

Google says "Did you mean: tpm and secure boot?"

I wouldn't update an old machine to Win 11 if it lacked 'necessary' hardware features - except in play. MS could release an update which requires these features at any time. Requiring biometric authentication, perhaps. Maybe in 2025 when Win 10 stops being updated.

Kasperski was warning the other day of fake Win 11 updates. Presumably, unlike the eventual production updates, these are unsigned. MS might use features of TPM v2 to stop that once Win 11 is released.

I hope that manufacturers continue to sell machines on which you can turn secure boot off, or at least run a non-Microsoft OS. It's cheaper to buy a Lenovo PC with Windows installed and overwrite it with Linux than buying a PC with no OS.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jul 21 - 11:12 PM

Will the new Install withhold making changes if it detects the hardware is not up to minimum requirements, or is it User's responsibility not to hit the 'go' button if User has doubts?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 02:07 AM

I expect that the official, released, version will not install.

Windows 10 wouldn't install if your processor lacked certain features, like PAE and NX.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 02:26 AM

For fun last night I cloned the hard disc on my Lenovo Thinkcentre, then fired up the clone (HDD) in an ex work pc at least 8 years old. I then installed Windows 11 which contained a dll file from Winfows 10 to bypass tpm and secure boot check. All took just under 3 hours.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 07:38 AM

Installation build was 22000.65, which is now updating to build 22000.100


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jul 21 - 09:38 AM

More fun - take a Windows 10 ISO and extract. Look in the Sources folder and delete the large file install.esd. Then copy and replace the remainder of the files to a Windows 11 Sources folder. Now you can install Windows 11 on any PC!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jul 21 - 10:47 AM

Clean install, corrected start menu to left, corrected display settings and connected to internet in 75 minutes - 12 year old PC with no additional software responding reasonably fast!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 01:09 AM

Parking this here

These Old-School Internet Browsers Are Like Real-Life Time Machines
A new tool lets you experience the glory—and embarrassment—of the internet of yore

"The tool is called oldweb.today, and it’s the brainchild of Ilya Kreymer and Dragan Espenschied. It “captures the web-browsing experience before the dawn of the new millennium,” writes Murphy—a more innocent time when design was simpler, pages took longer to load and things like webrings and dial-up still existed."


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 04:56 AM

That got me wondering whether dial up had really gone completely.

As far as I can make out, Freeola was possibly the last UK company offering it. They closed their service in January 2019. Going by this page, a few companies still offer dial up in the US. I've not looked at other countries but it may also still be on offer elsewhere in the world.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 08:45 AM

Fired up a very old PC- pre 2005 I'd wager, and I have the dreaded black screen! Data cable problem perhaps?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 09:27 AM

Meanwhile..

My two cheap durable workhorse Chromebooks are perfectly adequate for net surfing and downloading...

Unfortunately built in obsolescence means they will no longer be supported and updated by google after sometime next year.
So I might need to try converting them to Linux...???

Mine are about 5 or 6 years old, which is apparently approx the life span for formal support.

Remeber this if temted by sales bargains.
First google the year of manufacture, to confirm how many years support ane left.


Android phones only get at best two scheduled Android updates of improved security and new functions,
before being abandoned by manufacturers..

.. and my experience is an updated Android version can bugger the speed and efficiency of a previously good device...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 01:23 AM

Fixed the old PC built in 2006 - the Ram cards holding a mighty 2 Gb just needed reseating, then after correcting the boot order Windows 7 fired up! I tried upgrading to Windows 10 using the Media Creation Tool but it detected something missing so would not even download the files.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 11:05 AM

Going the 32bit route does enable installation of Windows 10 on this ancient PC!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 06:03 AM

The 2006 PC is now running 32bit Windows 10 - got stuck on OOBELOCAL whatever that is, but found a command line fix on youtube! However, as would be expected, it runs very slowly!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 07:07 AM

I installed 32 bit Win 10 on a 2010 PC when it came out. It's a 64 bit machine, but had so little memory I thought it wasn't worth using 64 bit Windows. It kept failing - problems with the graphics drivers. So I tried 64 bit Win 10 and it was fine. I concluded that the 32 bit drivers were not being updated, or not being tested enough.

It's dual-boot and normally runs Linux. I only use Win 10 for testing addons in Edge and updating my car's Satnav - the updater is Windows only. It's very slow to load (and update) but OK once it's running.

I installed WSL on it - Ubuntu - but couldn't see what use it was. I could run my ffmpeg scripts on it for example, but I can't think why I would.

The processor too old for Win 11.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 11:27 AM

I just can't see how microsoft can be allowed to instantly junk millions of computers on this planet. I am sure that a hacked Windows 11 for 32bit will surface - I would be very surprised if it doesn't, there are some very clever hackers out there!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 02:20 PM

Dave, memory is cheap and should be an easy swap of old cards for new in that 2010 machine.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 03:13 AM

It has 4GB memory, which does not require a 64-bit OS. So I initially installed 32 bit Win 10, which is smaller. But, as I said, it didn't work well.

It's mainly a spare in case my main Linux box fails. I very rarely fire up Windows on it - once in 6 months perhaps. It's not activated.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:02 AM

Well the final outcome on my 2006 PC is that Windows 10 32 bit stays. I tried to clean install 64bit via the Media Creation Tool but it refused. I still think microsoft do not want folks to have old computers - so to microsoft I say:

I hope you never prosper
And I hope you always fail;
At everything you venture
I hope you n'er do well;
And the very ground you walk upon -
May the grass refuse to grow.....................


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:41 AM

Does it actually have a 64 bit processor?

Look in Explorer, right click This PC, Properties


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:43 AM

32 bit support is getting rarer on Linux desktop PC distributions too. My usual desktop choice (OpenSuse) dropped it a while back for their "Leap" versions (it still exists on the rolling release Tumbleweed). I read the other day that even Xubuntu, one of the low resource variants of Ubuntu dropped it this year.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 08:08 AM

Found a 2017 version of Windows 10, so will make a bootable ISO and see if it will clean install on my 2006 PC!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 21 - 05:42 AM

Oh dear, the power supply has blown on the 2006 PC, so I've called it a day on that one - and being an IDE motherboard, not worth spending any money on it.

I transferred its HDD containing 32bit Windows 10 to another PC which booted up OK. I used the Media Creation Tool to download a 64bit version of Windows 10 to a USB drive from which installation was started. All was fine for a while but after a reboot it stuck on a black screen with flashing cursor. Did the same on 2 further attempts, but oddly after putting a Windows 7 Enterprise disc in the dvd drive and rebooting, it gave a blue screen with "just a minute" and after a while showed set up questions - home and dry!!

It's now doing updates and will be a clean spare drive.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 10:03 AM

Interesting find - I was looking for a wifi usb adaptor in the Argos catalogue and noticed one which supported USB 3.0. Once installed in a USB 3.0 port, maximum torrent download speed increased from 5.2MB per sec to 10.1MB per sec!! However max upload speed only increased from 3.6MB to 3.9MB per sec.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Sep 21 - 05:09 PM

Discovered that you can install Windows 11 direct from Windows 7. Interestingly though, when installing from USB, you need to remove the usb at the first reboot, otherwise it falls into a loop back to the beginning of the installation.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 02:43 AM

In my experience if you're clean-installing an OS from USB (or DVD) it doesn't matter what OS(es) are on the HDD: they don't run. It only matters if the installer accesses the old OS for some reason. Perhaps your Win 11 installer looks for Win 10, doesn't find it, and just treats Win 7 as 'used disc space'.

If your machine is set to boot first from USB (boot sequence in BIOS) then on first-reboot the machine will do that unless installer overrides it to boot from HDD. I don't know how Windows installers do that - maybe under UEFI on new machines it can issue a 'reboot from HDD' command. Perhaps Win 11 relies on that feature, but your machine doesn't have it.

I've read that MS have said that if you have Win 11 on 'unsupported hardware' it won't get updates.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 06:43 AM

I have installed a number of Windows 11 versions and they all get updates OK

Yes I found that after setting PC to boot first from USB, it does appear to be overridden to boot from HDD - I don't have SDD in my 10 year old PC!

No versions of Windows 11 have allowed roll back to previous version for some reason!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 10:31 AM

I have two USB-3 ports I hadn't been using, partly because I needed adapters for to use the USB-C ports. Now I have the adapters but don't have anything that needs connecting right now. :)

I haven't even considered installing 11 yet, I'll watch your results for a while.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:58 AM

It seems the best way of installing from USB is not to change the boot order but to use whatever key selects the boot device, which depends on the computer.
See here.
I don't think using a pre-UEFI (i.e. BIOS) machine would be different, though Win 11 claims to need UEFI.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:01 PM

I have just 2 USB-3 ports, one is used for a USB-3 wifi adapter which incidentally almost trebled my max download speed.

Just tried installing the same Windows 11 from its iso burnt to DVD, which didn't work.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:05 PM

The Win 11 iso is too big for a standard DVD. You have a dual-layer one?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:31 PM

The one I used was 3.9Gb, so probably messed with!

I'm using old HDDs which don't matter. If doing this on a main PC, I would advise making a clone of the hard disk first, as installation on a PC which doesn't meet hardware requirements does not present the option to restore the previous version.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 06:26 PM

Consider a PC which meets MS hardware requirements and is upgraded to Windows 11 via the media creation tool. The hard disk is then cloned and installed in a PC which does not meet Windows 11 hardware requirements - there is a good chance that it will boot up and run ok.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:30 AM

I doubt it. I would expect the installer to configure Windows for the particular machine - board chipset, architecture, type of processor, graphics, etc. It might work if the machines are identical - which obviously wouldn't be true if one met the MS spec and one didn't. You might have to clone the disk-ID too - if that's possible. Try it.

I see that MS are now saying that if you run Win 11 on unsupported hardware you're not entitled to updates, not that you won't get them.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 04:10 AM

Typical usaian dollar obsession!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 04:50 AM

No, I withdraw last post, wrong on this instance because windows upgrades are free.

Frankly I don't care if I don't get updates after windows 11 is released, and I'm sure that the majority of users don't care either!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 07:56 AM

The biggest up and coming driver for electronic waste must surely be Microsoft's intention to push the Windows 11 operating system onto consumers in the very near future. This new system has mandatory minimum system requirements that will render most current PCs and laptops obsolete.

There is no valid technical reason why existing hardware should not be able be able to run "windows 11" other than the fact that Microsoft plans to build-in 'incompatibility' with current hardware. After all it's only an operating system - which does not add any real value to the apps it hosts.

This is pure greed and is totally irresponsible bearing in mind what Microsoft (and Apple) have already done to the planet and the monopoly they hold in the tech sector.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 08:01 AM

MS is saying that those registry hacks won't work in the future. However, I'm pretty sure that a smart person (or at least smarter than MS which isn't really all that difficult) will be able to come up with a different hack, followed by another one, and so on... So I wouldn't worry too much if you want to run Win 11 on something that MS deemed "not secure enough". That statement must be the joke of the year!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 08:14 AM

Is Win 10 stable and reliable enough to reconsider using yet...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 08:39 AM

Never given me any problems


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 08:21 AM

There is apparently a way of upgrading Windows 10 pro to Windows Enterprise, which will be supported by MS for 10 years.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 10:37 AM

The Win 11 iso is too big for a standard DVD. You have a dual-layer one?

Reading that reminded me of the laptop I bought circa 1996, a friend had the Windows 95 software (nothing to keep us from sharing back then) that we installed. It took a stack of about 25 3.5" floppy disks and a couple of hours to load it all.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 01:18 PM

Been there, got the T shirt!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 03:50 PM

"There is apparently a way of upgrading Windows 10 pro to Windows Enterprise, which will be supported by MS for 10 years"

Didn't work properly and activation was lost, but better to have tripped than never danced at all!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 04:13 PM

Ashley Hutchings?

By Windows Enterprise did you mean Windows LTSC?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Sep 21 - 04:31 AM

Ashley Hutchings? What do you mean?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Sep 21 - 05:02 AM

"Better to have tripped than never danced at all" occurs in the chorus of Dancing Under the Rose by Ashley Hutchings. It's on his LP By Gloucester Docks I Sat Down and Wept, sung by Polly Bolton I think.

Maybe it's a quote from somewhere else. There are several Shakespearean references in the album.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Sep 21 - 09:03 AM

Yes that's right, my wife and I often use that phrase - I first heard it on a tape of an Albion Band gig in Denmark (I think), possible a radio broadcast from October 1983 time, a good line up of the band soon after Trevor Foster joined on drums.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 02:45 AM

Windows 11 in detail: Incremental upgrade spoilt by onerous system requirements and usability mis-steps
Here's the summary:
Windows 11 looks better than Windows 10 and is an incremental update which in the normal course of events users would welcome. The launch though is spoiled by system requirements which seem tone-deaf to today's component shortages and ecological challenges, and by changes to the core applications which have sufficient annoyances that some users will prefer to stick with Windows 10 for a while; it is supported until October 2025. Windows 11 will no doubt get better in most respects, though Microsoft's insistence on using its operating system as a vehicle for promoting its search and cloud services, where it gets in the way of usability, may be a persistent concern.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 06:11 AM

I'm sticking with win 8.1, though might now be prepared to reconsider 10
for any next full system reinstall..

Only because 8.1 will be unsupported sooner, and has already been made a near impossible chore for new install...

Lower cost bare bones PCs [sold without operating system]
probably won't qualify for 11 for some time to come...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 07:53 AM

I’ve found Win-10, in particular the most recent revision, perfectly fine for my purposes - but then I don’t try to be ‘clever’ by outwitting the system and using outlandish software, I just use Win-10 and standard software packages in the way they’re intended to be used, for surfing, basic home-office, photo and video-editing, and recording purposes.

I’m praying that Win-11 won’t try to self install on my brand-new Win-10 Dell laptop - I have no intention of taking the free ‘upgrade’ until a few updates have happened and, hopefully, the gremlins have been sorted out.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 08:19 AM

Many updates have happened since the first insider release. I currently have it running on 2 HDDs, and no problems encountered so far, but proof will be updates or no updates according to whatever the crusties at MS see fit to allow on a 10 year old PC!!!

I'm trying to get my head round a method I found of installing Windows 11 from the command line, which involves having an empty hard drive connected, partitioned in a particular way, picking up from the installation ISO on a USB memory stick.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 08:24 AM

Ah, I also need to change the Master Boot Record (MBR) into a GUID partition table (GPT) disk???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 08:24 AM

”I'm trying to get my head round a method I found of installing Windows 11 from the command line, which involves having an empty hard drive connected, partitioned in a particular way, picking up from the installation ISO on a USB memory stick.”

Y’see, this is the kind of thing I was referring to when I spoke about ‘trying to be clever by outwitting the system and using outlandish software’! It’s akin to witchcraft to a simple guy Ike me! Another reason I want to avoid upgrading until they’ve made it foolproof. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 08:26 AM

A simple guy like me!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 08:42 AM

Try gparted


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 12:25 PM

punkfolkrocker wrote: Lower cost bare bones PCs [sold without operating system]
probably won't qualify for 11 for some time to come...???
(I'm never sure whether adding ??? to a statement like that is intended to turn it into a question. B3L does it too.)

Anyway, a PC without an existing copy of Win 10 does not qualify for Win 11. Theoretically you should buy a copy - £100 at least for a legal copy. It's usually cheaper to buy a PC with Windows installed than without an OS, or with Linux pre-installed.

If it's like Win 10 you can just install it and use it without activating it. But unlike Win 10, Win 11 requires you to have a MS account - you can't be a local user (or so I've read) - so that might be tricky.

I can't see what benefits Win 11 brings over Win 10. The hardware security features (the 'Secured-Core PC security baseline' in the Register piece) is worth having, but it's mostly in Win 10 already and depends on having up-to-date hardware, including TPM 2. Maybe Android support, when it arrives, if you have a MS tablet.

My wife's laptop works well on Win 10, and won't run Win 11 because it's too old. I'll ignore Win 11 until 2025. (It's a Thinkpad so it will probably still be working fine.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 12:32 PM

I need reliable Windows for music software..

Now, just as some software developers seem to trust win 10 as sufficiently mature and stable
to discontinue updates and support for win 8.1,
along comes win 11... !!!???


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 03:14 PM

pfr - I use Reaper and, occasionally, Audacity with Win-10 and they work absolutely fine. Never had a problem, other than those caused by my own ineptitude as a recording engineer! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 03:41 PM

"nyway, a PC without an existing copy of Win 10 does not qualify for Win 11."

No, I did a clean install of Windows 11 from Windows 7!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 04:00 PM

You can clean-install Windows on top of anything - or on a blank disk. But, according to Microsoft, to qualify for a free upgrade you must be running Windows 10.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Oct 21 - 04:46 PM

You can be a local user in Windows 11.

You can download Windows 11 via Media Creation Tool via a non compatable PC.

That aside, this is the video I'm trying to get my head around.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 06:17 AM

I'm unfamiliar with the Windows commands (or for that matter any command line partitioning) but it didn't look that impossible to me, bonzo.

One thing I might question is what you do if you disk already had partitions but I'd probably use gparted live to set the partition table type and delete any existing partitions. I could even try to prepare the disk with new partitions that way. Going by his example, I think the first partition would need to be fat32 sized at 512Mb and the rest of the disk would be a ntfs partion. With a larger disk, you could opt to create more than one suitably sized partitions rather than one big one. Once created, the fat32 partition would need boot and esp flags set. I think Windows would assign drive letters which you would need to work out on booting to the ISO.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 03:42 PM

Interesting, thanks.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 09:42 PM

C|Net pushed this via email today:

Fix the 'this PC can't run Windows 11' error: 4 types of problems you could have
We found four ways to work around the pesky Windows 11 installation error. You may be able to get the download by enabling TPM and Secure Boot.

If you saw that your PC is not compatible with Windows 11, it may be because your system doesn't have two security settings turned on, Secure Boot and TPM 2.0. Here's how to do it.

Microsoft started a phased rollout of Windows 11 Tuesday. But you probably won't get Windows 11 just yet. If you're planning on downloading the new OS on your existing PC, you might run into some speed bumps due to the system requirements for the new operating system. (Here's how to download Windows 11 and how to create a Windows 11 install drive.)

If you've tried installing Windows 11 Insider Preview or using the Microsoft PC Health Check app and were greeted with an error message reading, "This PC can't run Windows 11," your system might not have two essential security settings turned on: Secure Boot and TPM 2.0. (Here are two other things you must do before downloading Windows 11.) Many modern computers and processing chips from Intel and AMD have these features built in, and both are now required for all machines running Windows 11.

Once you've downloaded the PC Health Check app, you can click Check Now to begin the scanning process. The app will tell you whether your computer will support Windows 11, or what it's missing, and you can click See All Results for more information.

If your machine is new enough to support both, enabling TPM (short for Trusted Platform Module) and Secure Boot is often quite easy. No special skills are needed, and you'll just be clicking through menus. If you've never heard the words "BIOS menu" you might feel out of your element, but don't be intimidated. With a little patience, any first-timer can do this.

Here's what you need to know.


Follow the rest of it at the link.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 02:53 AM

Microsoft themselves have published the registry change to enable Windows 11 on unsupported hardware:
Ways to install Windows 11

So if you really like the new user interface....


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 05:56 AM

Well strap me to a tree and call me Brenda!!!!! How nice of MS to tell us something we already know!!!!!

Downloaded a Win 11 iso at just over 4.1Gb which was accepted by a usb drive, but in reality probably just under 4Gb. But although set to boot from usb in the bios, it would not. However a mounted version has now booted, and happily went to the command screen at the install error with shift+f10.

So it. now sits at X:Sources awaiting diskpart.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 11:56 AM

This command

DISM /Get-WimInfo /WimFile:E:\sources\install.wim

told me that Windows 11 is at index 1 as in the video. I put the iso on a second usb but the install command didn't work.

There must be a command to apply the install.wim file from the mounted Sources folder instead of the iso.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 01:07 PM

"Didn't work" in what way? What did it do? Do you not get a message?

One possible problem is that if you had booted the iso it would have got wism.exe from that iso - i.e. it would be a Win 11 version of wism. As it is you're running a version from whatever version of Windows you are running. What is that?

You could try running dism from the iso:
E:/some_path/dism.exe /apply imge ...
You'd have to search for it to discover the path.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 01:52 PM

I always get the more robust "Pro" version of the operating systems. What do you know about that distinction?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 02:58 PM

Windows 11 Home vs Windows 11 Pro: here are the major differences


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 05:23 PM

I gave up in the end, it was the Pro official version I was trying to install from the command line.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 05:59 PM

"DISM can be used with older Windows image files although it cannot be used with images that are more recent than the installed version of DISM."

So I think my guess was correct. I suspect that DISM gets added to in every version of Windows. And my suggestion probably wouldn't work: I doubt if DISM.exe is a stand-alone executable; it looks complicated enough to require DLLs, which would have to come from Win 11 too.

A Windows 11 installation image, when booted, runs Windows 11, albeit a skeleton version.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 04:27 AM

Interesting thanks.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 08:05 AM

Just done a clean install of Windows 7 from DVD followed by a hybrid Windows 11 installation using a Windows 10 fileset with the Windows 11 install.esd so back to square one!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Oct 21 - 04:58 PM

I tried something different - made a clone of the Windows 10 SSD on my main PC and installed it on a spare old PC of 2011 vintage, then downloaded the Windows 11 ISO from the MS download page. Once downloaded, I extracted the file/folder set, copied then opened in Notebook the appraiserres.dll file (situated in the Sources folder).

I then deleted all instances of TPM and UEFI and saved the copy back to the Sources folder.

Windows 11 then installed without deleting data and software!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 02:35 AM

Well I found that I did have a Win 11 compatible PC after all. I put a Win 10 disk from another PC in it and tried to upgrade. It took me a while but, for now, I do have a working Win 11 system.

I can’t say I’m impressed with the Windows Health Check which was downloaded following SRS’s link.

In the first instance rather than telling me what was wrong, it just gave me a vague message along the lines of “To see if this PC is compatible either check the specifications or ask the manufacturer”. I think that resolved when I updated the BIOS.

Having got the all clear I used the Assistant to install. This kept crashing at around 75%, The error number produced differing suggestions as to the problem and my solution came around in an odd way.

The first solution I looked at involved partitioning and I installed Aomei Partition Assistant. This software for some reason had a Win 11 compatibility checker. Running that one told me I was not compatible because of lack of DirectX 12 and something else.

I found the Nvidia GT210 graphics card I had (for my Linux preferences) been using would not support DirectX 12. Anyway I changed things round to use the onboard graphics, installed the AMD drivers and both checks then agreed I was ready to upgrade.

It went though this time.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 04:29 AM

Good for you! The crashing is a pain, happened to me when using the Assistant so I've done it manually ever since - possibly half a dozen times now. I found the most reliable way is to download the iso to the machine - it won't fit on a USB with a FAT32 file system, then extract to a new folder.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 07:50 AM

I forgot to mention that I was not bothered with the MS account nonsense, like you are when doing a clean install.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 07:57 AM

"This PC doesn't currently meet all the system requirements for Windows 11" message does not appear once Windows 11 has been installed on such a PC - it's currently installing a security update!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Oct 21 - 07:32 PM

win 11 pro [oem] keys are already on sale for around $25..

..so if you dont qualify for free update, and are in a mad rush to 'upgrade'...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 04:14 AM

But you don't need a key if you have activated Windows 7 or 10, because a digital license is automatically generated. Presumabh the same for Windows 8 series as well.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 04:37 AM

Well I’ve already read enough Techie-shit in this thread to convince me to steer clear of Win 11, even though both Dell and MS keep telling me my new laptop is up-to-snuff for the free ‘upgrade’.

I don’t want to have to screw around the way you guys are doing, I just want a computer that does the straightforward, everyday stuff I tend to do, with a minimum of fuss and no farting around, crashes, work-around, yadda yadda. My laptop is there to serve me, not vice-versa.

Win 10 is chugging along on my m/c very happily and I understand how to use it. I’ll stick with it for a year or two until all the nonsense with 11 has been straightened out.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 05:22 AM

Win 11 is just a curiosity thing to me BWM. Windows isn't even my main operating system. Where I want stability and longer runs, generally speaking (I can still have breakdowns), I get that. At the moment one of my Raspberry Pis has been running 313 days since last rebooted and my OpenSuse server PC 202 days.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 06:18 AM

Backwoodsman wrote: Well I’ve already read enough in this thread to convince me to steer clear of Win 11...
It's clear from all the reviews that Windows 11 is not a major change from Windows 10; it could have been called Windows 10.1. The main visible change is to the user interface - the start menu, etc. The main benefits are invisible: improved hardware-enforced security, if your computer is new enough.

If my wife's Windows 10 laptop met the hardware requirement I would upgrade it - not immediately, but in a few months time. It doesn't, so Windows 10 is good until 2025.

Aside from all the non-standard methods of installing it, I am unclear from what I read whether an upgrade will require you to have a Microsoft account if you don't already. The Home vs Pro page I posted says that it's a requirement for Home but not Pro. A clean install doesn't require it - you can just ignore the request, the same as Windows 10. But an upgrade?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 07:03 AM

An upgrade doesn't require it either, both from Windows 7 and 10. Just click on local account.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 10:45 AM

Every time I add an upgrade like that it deletes my MS Win7 Solitaire games, the last free ones that are worth playing. No ads. (I have it stored and can load it back, but it's a nuisance.)


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 03:58 PM

You could run these games under Hyper-V in Windows 10. But I've no idea whether, if you then upgraded to Windows 11, it would leave your Hyper-V installation alone.

It ought to. I've not used Hyper-V but I run a slide scanner under Windows 7 in a virtual machine (vbox) under Linux, and it's unaffected by an update to the Linux release.

And I don't know whether it would be more effort than what you do now.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 11 Oct 21 - 05:05 PM

I meant "You could run these games under Windows 7 under Hyper-V in Windows 10."


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Oct 21 - 05:47 PM

Windows 11 updates are not being blocked for "non compatable" PCs!!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 03:29 AM

Meanwhile, under the TS (Techie-Shit) label:
The Best Part of Windows 11 Is Its Linux

Windows 10 has been able to run Linux for some years but I could never see what use it was for a desktop user. It was command-line only: maybe running ffmpeg to process sound files? Windows 11 adds a graphical interface, which makes it more useful. Are there any Linux-only music or video programs that would make it worthwhile? And if there are why would you not just use Linux?


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Oct 21 - 09:43 AM

Interesting question, Dave. A couple of programs I like that are not straightforwardly (there is a KDE port) ran on Windows are Digikam and K3b but I'd probably find Windows alternatives I like. Mythtv could be a problem but Kodi would probably do me if I just wanted a front end on a Windows platform and I would want to run the backend on a Linux machine.

On my own drift... I swapped what had got relegated to the spare because of some problem and I found I'd forgotten was a Ryzen 5 system for my desktop, exchanging a couple of bits from the latter. I now have a dual boot Leap 15.3/Win 11 PC as my Desktop PC.

I'm not sure how often I'll boot into Win 11 but at least it's there...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 04:13 PM

Windows 11 is now allowing wind back to Windows 10 - within 10 days of installation.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Oct 21 - 11:10 PM

Yes, 8.1 will upgrade directly to Win 10 without needing a new key.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 01:54 AM

Good luck, I rolled back to Windows 10 last night because I wanted to try the registry change method for Windows 11 installation on an old PC as recommended by MS. I tried from a mounted file set on the hard drive after putting in the registry changes, but that didn't work so next I'll delete the registry changes and boot from mounted file set on a usb drive, then at the fail message I can get to X:sources command prompt from shift+f10 and redo the registry changes, but I'm not too optimistic.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 08:51 AM

Cannot upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 from USB and keep files and software, has to be done from file set on hard drive. Now that won't install - I think perhaps MS is now putting something more in ISO to stop old PCs upgrading to Windows 11.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 09:16 AM

Microsoft is successfully making a very convincing case for Chromebooks...


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:56 AM

microsoft are liars and thieves.


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 04:08 PM

Notwithstanding my previous post, I have 2 unsupported computers which have received all updates for Windows 11 which is now at version 22000.258 !!


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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 04:58 PM

Still receiving Windows 11 updates on unsupported PCs!!!


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