Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 04:59 PM

Best to regularly make system restore points, so that you can go back to a working system. There are plenty of videos showing how to get to the troubleshooting screen from BSOD!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 03:39 PM

BSOD isn't a harbinger of good things, Jon! I hope you work it out!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 03:31 PM

Oh yes, I just pulled the plug, restarted and it was fine. I'm on version 21H2 22000.282 on both unsupported PCs!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Nov 21 - 08:31 AM

I've had the very occasional BSOD (black in Win 11) on my PC.

This may or may not be down to the 16GB PC 3600 RAM I fitted. I only looked at Crucial's site after ordering the memory from mazon. Crucial's info said it wasn't compatible with my motherboard. Other websites suggested that speed memory should be OK. I couldn't get it to work stably at full speed but using the board's default 2667 seemed OK.

Windows own memory test (sticking with default settings) gives an OK.
I've been entirely on Linux for the last 4 days and haven't had any problems.
But BSODs have crept into Win 11 for some reason.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 01:08 PM

I've had those popups on both our Win 10 machines, neither of which get close to the hardware requirements for Win 11 One is 11 years old. You need to to run the hardware checker program.

Reverting from Win 11 to Win 10 'should work' - but it depends on what's happened to the system since. And on everything going right!

On the subject of reversion, MS has invented a novel (I think) way of generating the scripts which revert files to their state before update: 'Reverse Update Data Generation'.

How Microsoft reduced Windows 11 update size by 40%

For more detail see also the links in that piece. You can see why reversion might not work!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 12:43 PM

My friend is getting popup messages urging him to update to Win 11. I haven't gotten those - so either my computer upgraded stealthily and I'm not aware of it (I say humorously - I doubt that very much) or I'm on a different schedule of notifications from the company. This is a Dell and I get Dell update screens every so often, so it might arrive with one of those.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 11:34 AM

Bonz - I wouldn't trust microsoft on that promise...

Back when win 10 was introduced as free offer install,
I bought a brand new win 8.1 PC and immediately before using it for anything else,
'upgraded' to win 10..

After several days struggling with problems, I decided to give up and roll back to Win 8.1.

Didn't work out so well, as 8.1 was now buggy, and some functions were broken.

I'm now prepared to consider win 10 might be more reliable for another attempt with a laptop this time..

But bugger win 11 - won't even consider risking it until I ever buy a new computer...

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 11:16 AM

Everything worked as with Windows 10, but Windows Update has been a little sticky over the last couple of days.

Don't forget you can go back to Windows 10 within 10 days of installation.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Nov 21 - 10:56 AM

A question: if you've done a recent Win 11 install (versus installing it last summer when it first came out) how much of your regular software did you have to fiddle with to get things back to how you use them? Did it delete features you like? Did you have to re-set your browser tabs, etc?

A friend called today to ask if I'd make the transition to 11, and we agreed it's a good thing to wait until a few people have already done it and the bugs are worked out (as much as they EVER work out the bugs). I've posted to this thread when I see articles about Win 11, but I may soon be joining the ranks of those to take the plunge.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 03:35 PM

Well, I'm a convert to affordable Chromebook 'laptops' for quick easy convenient
general purpose net surfing..

Better than tablets and mobile phones, and none of the PITA of microsoft..

Mine are Lenovo N22 - manufactured aimed at schools,
so they are sturdy durable construction.

The only real disadvantage with chromebooks is they come with a fixed date for becoming obsolete and no longer provided with system updates.

Approx 5 or 6 years.

Mine are due to stop updating within the next 12 months.

This is important to know if tempted by cut price deals.
You must enquire how long they have left for updates.

The hardware should still work for ages after, but without security and system updates.

Maybe they can be hacked for linux ?????

The latest affordable chromebooks are far more powerful and capable tech specs than my dependable little workhorses,
which are starting to slow down and freeze under the strain of 2021 bloated web pages...

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 02:35 PM

Joe, I found some good small appliances there (vacuums, crock pots, microwave, etc.) at good prices. And things like the detergent that goes in my carpet cleaner. But I also thought the last few years it had the look of going out of business without saying so.

Microsoft fixes Windows 11 features failing due to an expired certificate
Windows 11 features are no longer failing to load

If you’re running Windows 11, you should be offered the KB5008295 update today, and it will automatically install from Windows Update. This patch does require a reboot, and Microsoft notes it will address all of the issues from the expired certificate, including the accounts page in Windows 11 with S mode failing to load.

Microsoft was relatively quick to address these problems after the company discovered the certificate issue on Monday. It’s unusual for Microsoft to issue out-of-band patches that aren’t security-related for its Windows operating systems, and this is one of the first emergency-style fixes for Windows 11.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 02:18 PM

YeaH, I miss Fry's. Twenty years ago, it was a wonderland. In the ten years before it closed, it always looked like a failing business. It was never completely stocked - a huge store with lots of empty shelves. It was a wonderful source for computer equipment, but I think it made a mistake trying to sell televisions and appliances and candy bars and such.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 11:18 AM

My little "spare" computer is a 2013 Sony Vaio that is WiFi only, one of the USB ports doesn't work and I haven't found a battery to replace the one it came with (so it has to stay plugged in all of the time). It arrived with Win 8, was updated to Win 10, and I don't know that I want to bother with Win 11 on it.

The Dell XPX I'm using now was purchased a couple of years ago and came with Win 10. The old HP Pavilion Elite HPE is a quad core I bought with Win 7 for all of the heavy duty Adobe software I use and it still has my most recent releases (from work, not purchased by me). It has Win 10 on it now. The only way to upgrade it is to format the whole things and get it back to talking to the network, but I'd lose all of the installed software. I have a full backup, but I don't think it would put the software back without insurmountable complications. I move data into and out using a transfer cable that acts like another drive on both computers and has a built in software called EasySuite.exe.

I got the cable on sale from the online folks at Radio Shack: it's still around, and still selling useful stuff - though as Joe points out, my other and more reliable place was Fry's Electronics and it has completely vanished. They didn't even do "Going Out Of Business" sales, they just turned off the website and padlocked the doors one day.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 10:47 AM

As it happens, I was cursing dad's Lenovo laptop (and Linux and Realtek) last night. I like the machine in some ways. It is a better build than my ASUS and it make changing the drive and upgrading the RAM easy, proving an access cover for that. I don't think this ones A8 processor is the fastest in the world but it's ample for dad who rarely does more than email and web browsing. The main gripe I have with it is that I've never managed to get its wifi and bluetooth working. The last time I looked, it appeared these parts were unlikely to get supported. My workaround has been to use a RTL8821AU based combined wifi/bluetooth USB dongle but that has given me headaches from time to time.

Anyway, due to dad making an unexpected and generous offer I wasn't going to turn down I've got/will have some new things as well as a couple of upgrades coming up. As I will be getting a new Dell laptop, one debate I had was whether to pass my faster ASUS on to dad or to keep the Lenovo. I decided that, on balance, he was better sticking with the Laptop he likes and is familiar with but that I would fit it with an ssd and upgrade to 8GB RAM.

That went smoothly as did the fresh install of Opensuse 15.3 except I couldn't get wi-fi on the dongle working and neither my memory nor looking at the contents of the old hdd revealed how it had been working last time round. I started at about 10pm and I think it was about 2:30am when (thanks to instructions for a patch I found on line that I could apply to one source code) I finally managed to compile and install to get working wifi.

Anyway, a bit of an OT ramble but Joe may be pleased to know that this upgraded Lenovo is now on course for giving (I hope) a few more years useful service for dad here.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Nov 21 - 08:23 AM

About to upgrade cloned SSD to SSD from Windows 10 to 11 as administrator!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 05:20 PM

My main computer is a 2013 Lenovo Thinkcentre which my boss was going to dump, and he said I could take it. Now running SDD with Windows 10 it is very fast, although sometimes meets its match with Photoshop!

I may clone that SSD on to a new one and upgrade to Windows 11 to see how it runs.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Nov 21 - 02:01 AM

Well, I dunno. I guess it's been a week now since I installed Windows 11. I bought a new computer last year because my 10-yr-old Windows
7 - 8.1 - 10 computer was finally slowing down and not handling this new Zoom program very well. The computer I got in March 2020 was what was available - better computers would take months to obtain. It was very sluggish, and even 32 GB of RAM didn't fix it. But it's running quite smoothly with Windows 11, so I'll postpone buying a post-COVID computer for now.
But I can't expand this computer much more, so I imagine I'll have it only a couple years more.
I sure think it's best to buy a computer you can expand. I loved that Lenovo I bought ten years ago, and I could improve it quite cheaply - but it had reached its time.
I'll be interested to see how long my stepson's computer will last. Ten years ago when he was a computer science major, I took him to Fry's (now gone) and bought him what he needed to build his own computer, on which he runs Linux. This was about the same time I bought my beloved Lenovo at a considerably lower price. He's still going strong with that computer. But now he has a job in Texas that pays a steady income. We'll see how long he keeps this computer. I'm sure that soon all he'll have left will be the original box. But I sure will be proud of him if he keeps that box.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Nov 21 - 09:06 AM

In that method, the appraiserres.dll file is renamed, and having put in the registry edits, the setup.exe file is run as administrator.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Nov 21 - 06:04 PM

This is the easiest method I have found for upgrading Windows 10 to Windows 11 on an unsupported PC, keeping all files + software.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 21 - 11:05 AM

Whatever, if they stop I can simply install latest Windows 11 over a clone of my main PC's SSD running Windows 10!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Oct 21 - 08:31 AM

Well I think your upgrades may go on for the entire lifespan of Win 11 or stop tommorrow Bonzo. That sort of uncertainly may, quite reasonably, put people off. If my own situation was one where I was reliant on an under Win 11 spec yet decent Win 10 machine, I'd not upgrade.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 21 - 08:25 AM

Great advice for installing Windows 11 on unsupported PCs

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Oct 21 - 05:35 AM

Still getting Windows 11 updates on unsupported PCs!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 05:18 PM

Apparantly you can install Android apps into Windows Subsystem for Android from the Amazon Appstore, like the Amazon Fire tablet. It doesn't look too bad - you can play games on it.

Windows Subsystem for Android: What's the point?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 02:58 PM

Well I've taken a look at the Android SoundHound app mentioned by SRS and have had it working both Linux on and on Windows 11 by using the Android SDK emulators (which btw have been quite a bit faster than my memory had it).

--
Glad things are working well Joe.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 03:44 AM

With 32GB of memory it ought to be really quick, whatever processor it has. Have you tried something like this?
How to Troubleshoot Slow Performance Issues

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 02:41 AM

Yeah, Bonzo, so far, so good. I bought this Dell Inspiron computer in March of 2020, and there wasn't much choice available. It was really sluggish. I bought 32 GB of RAM, and it was still sluggish - I'd copy something, and it wouldn't copy or wouldn't paste. I'd type something, and the display would be half a line behind. With a computer that's slow to respond, I can't help but make mistake.
But so far with Windows 11, the response seems much quicker.
Wish me luck.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 06:00 PM

You are lucky to have a "compatible" PC!! Arguably at least half the world doesn't.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:18 PM

Well, I'm always curious about new stuff and don't believe the naysayers very much and I have no major reason not to trust Microsoft, so I downloaded and installed Windows 11 on my computer when it became available to me this morning. Installation was very easy - took about an hour. So far, it seems to have a crisper response on my computer than I had with Windows 10, so maybe this is an improvement.
Wish me luck.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 02:22 PM

Fwiw, I had already put Andriod Studio on Win 11 as something I'd be looking for at some point and have just added an emulator.

I'm having a few problems (it seems reasonably responsive but the UI has the odd crash) with the emulator I chose and will try another but A snapshot of an emulated Pixel 2 running google maps.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 12:51 PM

Hmm, heres something I typed earlier but had decided not to post. Maybe it will give bonzo some ideas to try...

I started to look at the look at the new Windows System for Android but decided against opting in to the insiders program. It started me looking at running Android on Windows and there seem to be a few other ways:

There is an “Arc Welder” extension for Chrome which apparently can work with Windows.

There are a number of emulators which seem mostly targeted at gaming of which BlueStacks seems to get the most mentions

I feel all of these would need a bit of research in terms of possible ads, costs, and security.

You could install Android on VirtualBox or perhaps other virtual machine.

You could use the tools in the Android SDK. I have done this (eg via Android Studio) but found it slow. That said, it’s quite a while since I last had a play with Android development and things can change.

Both of these are probably more involved than your “average user” (whatever that is) might want.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 11:59 AM

Bonzo3legs wrote: But what if one doesn't have a microsoft account?

If you're asking about Anroid support, I've no idea. Maybe you can sideload an app, i.e. get the APK file from somewhere and install it yourself. But on Android some apps, particularly paid-for ones, require access to the Playstore to check that they are licenced, and otherwise do not work. Others - Firefox for example - do not: you can install them on any Android-like device.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 11:48 AM

You don't need a Microsoft account to log onto Windows, you just have to be persistent and click through the part where it wants you to logon to Microsoft. Use your own computer password.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 11:20 AM

But what if one doesn't have a microsoft account?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 01:23 PM

Here's some more detail:
Introducing Android™ Apps on Windows 11 to Windows Insiders

AFAICS the publisher would have to get their app into Microsoft's web store, so they'd have to be persuaded that it was worth the effort (and cost?). SoundHound looks like they might think it's worth it.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 11:10 AM

Dave Ro, regarding Android software on a Windows platform, some software like SoundHound would be good on the computer. If I want to ID something playing on the computer now I need to pull up the app on the phone and hold it up for identification. I hadn't heard about the company's other projects, but that "Hound" voice assistant sounds like a rival to Siri and Alexa.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 27 Oct 21 - 10:38 AM

Well I had a change of plan and got an internal ssd instead of a usb drive and have transferred the Win 11 system onto that. The old Win hdd can serve as a cloned copy if needed. I looked at acronis but it seemed to be subscription software and for me (who generally dislikes paying for software anyway), that is a no go. I used Aoemi Backup Pro. It, together with their partioner pro (which I’d already used in free std form), were on some “Halloween bundle” offer which seemed reasonable to me.

As for Win 11 general usage, I’ve changed to single click and moved the start button to the left and it doesn’t really feel that different to me (although it would to mum who looks for differences rather than similarities) to using the OpenSuse Plasma 5 desktop.

I’d commented on wondering about MythTv before. Kodi works fine but I think its recording options with the mythtv plugin are weak. There was however a simple solution. I installed MythWeb on the server and that gives me quite a usable web interface I can use with Firefox on Windows.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 11:32 AM

That's probably a good idea, bonzo, thanks. I'll look into the program and probably get a USB disk to do this with but that will probably have to wait until next week.

For now though, I've done quite a few downloads and installs, have a reasonable group of programs set and am on Win 11 at the moment. So far, so good, but I think it will be a while before I decide whether or not this is a move for the better for me.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 10:44 AM

Jon, I suggest you clone your hard disc first so you have a backup of everything if things go pear shaped. Acronis is very good.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 08:02 AM

I tried twice to download the ISO but wound up with truncated files. A 5GB download takes ages with my not much more than 2Mbps connection so I didn't bother trying again.

I've not been that impressed with the Assistant method even with a PC MS says is OK though. I've been through this process twice with my PC (I decided to start afresh with Win 9 pro I bought rather than continue with the Win 9 Home version I'd taken by using a disk from another PC) and on both occasions, the upgrade failed at around 70% with some cryptic error message.

The first time, I thought it was because the Nvidia graphics card would not support Direct X 12 but, second time round, I had a compatible Nvidia graphics card with the latest drivers installed and it still failed. My best guess is that my system needs the drivers for the built Radeon grapics installed (and perhaps having that card in use - both my succesful attempts had this) before the upgrade will go throuh.

--
One a diferent sujbject, triggered by a question Dave asked... I may find it an expensive mistake but I want to see how I get on with using Win 11 as the main OS on my desktop PC.

Most of the programs I use are cross platform and I can still do any server admin I might need via ssh. I'm not a great fan of dual boot in that I tend only to use the other OS when stuck and don't want to try the route of Win 11 on a virtual server or see if I can get more coplicatd programs running under wine. One program I do want to have a play with is the free for personal use version of Fusion 360 and there may be other examples of programs without Linux versions I'd like to try.

Whatever I wind up settling for, the rest of the system (which includes mums PC and dad's laptop) will remain on Linux, in my case both OpenSuse and Raspberry Pi OS.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 05:18 AM

From all my successful and unsuccessful (is that right - not successfull??) attempts to install Windows 10 on my unsupported PCs, I recommend that the ISO route is used, which is best installed immediately after download.

Download to hard drive and extract to a new folder. Download an appraiseres.dll file with all referenced to TMP and UEFI removed, and replace file in sources folder.

Install from setup file.

Checking PC should then be bypassed.

I found that an ISO downloaded on a previous day would not install for some reason!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 03:26 AM

Meanwhile, something new:
Microsoft unveils Android apps for Windows 11 (for US users only)
(That's the kind of long-text link that is now easy with this.)

I use an Android tablet. I doubt if there are many - any? - Android apps I would want to run inside Windows. I do have an app called Music Scanner which will play a piece of sheet music, but I can't imagine using it on a laptop; it needs a good camera for a start. And if you wanted to use Google Pay you'd need TPM 2 ;)

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 12:31 AM

It's 2021.
By now, consumers shouldn't have to do all that...

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 11:02 PM

Lady Hillary sent this to me. There are several "simple" hacks to get around TPM 2.0.

https://betanews.com/2021/07/03/registry-hack-bypass-tpm-windows-11/



https://www.techspot.com/news/91691-here-how-bypass-windows-11-tpm-cpu-requirements.html

This column and its links tell you what to consider before doing it. If you go forward, make sure you have a backup disk or thumb drive set up and loaded.


AskWoody Plus Newsletter Logo
ISSUE 18.40.F • 2021-10-18 • Read this issue online.


In this issue

PUBLIC DEFENDER: A single Registry line enables Windows 11 without TPM 2.0

Additional articles in the PLUS issue

LANGALIST: Can you fully delete the Edge browser? Should you?

BEST UTILITIES: Freeware Spotlight — CAD

HARDWARE DIY: Opal: Physical assembly — the motherboard

PATCH WATCH: Windows 11 is officially vulnerable




A single Registry line enables Windows 11 without TPM 2.0
Brian Livingston
By Brian Livingston

Microsoft has published a new support document revealing a one-line entry anyone can add to the Registry allowing Windows 11 to install on devices that do not have the so-called TPM 2.0 chip installed on the motherboard.

The Trusted Platform Module, as I explained in the September 6 AskWoody Newsletter, is a small hardware component that generates and stores cryptographic keys, among other things. Until the release of the recent support document, Microsoft had repeatedly stated that the 2.0 version of TPM would be a requirement before Windows 11 would install. In addition, Win11 has CPU and other hardware requirements above those of Win10, as set forth in Microsoft's Win11 specifications.

Supermicro AOM-TPM-9665V-S moduleIn this column, I'll show you exactly how you can use this new Registry entry to install Win11 on systems lacking TPM 2.0. TPM 2.0 may be provisioned on a motherboard by a discrete chip (a Supermicro 9665V is shown at left), or it may be integrated into the chipset associated with the processor. Win11 officially supports TPM 2.0 functionality built into the 2017 Intel Core 8th-gen microarchitectures and later, the 2018 AMD Zen+ CPU and later, and others.

However, many machines that came to market as recently as two or three years ago contain an earlier TPM 1.2 version. The final revision of TPM 1.2 was released a decade ago and appeared to be a standard that would endure. As recently as June 24, 2021, Microsoft was officially saying TPM 1.2 would be a "hard floor" for installing Win11. The company's announcements at that point stated TPM 2.0 was merely "recommended." But just one day later, MS reversed course, saying it was "required," as described in a CRN article.

IMPORTANT: Before you make any Registry changes or install anything new, it's important that you read to the end of this story for valid reasons why you might not want to install Win11 on hardware that Redmond considers "unsupported."

There’s one Registry key to rule them all
For purposes of this discussion, the following is merely an outline of the Registry tweak. You should first read Microsoft's official explanation, which is in its new "Ways to install Windows 11" support document.

Step 1. In Win10, press Win+R, enter tpm.msc, and verify TPM 1.2 is enabled.
Step 2. Run Microsoft's PC Health Check app, just so you know your configuration.
Step 3. Go to the Windows 11 software download page.
Step 4. Under "Download Win11 disk image (ISO)," click and read "Before you begin."
Step 5. Below that, click the "Download" button to burn an ISO (to a DVD, for instance).
Step 6. Before upgrading to Win11, press Win+R and enter regedit.
Step 7. Navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\MoSetup.
Step 8. Right-click the right-hand pane and create a new DWORD (32-bit) Value.
Step 9. Name the entry AllowUpgradesWithUnsupportedTPMOrCPU.
Step 10. Give the entry a value of 1.
Step 11. Close the Registry Editor.
The above steps should allow you to install Win11 over Win10, even if a device has only TPM 1.2 enabled and not TPM 2.0.

As suggested by part of the Registry key itself — TPMOrCPU — the workaround will do more than just keep Win11 from requiring TPM 2.0. (With the trick, the requirement is only TPM 1.2, which is widely installed.) The "unbound" Win11 will also accept several generations of CPUs that didn't make it into Microsoft's Win11 specs.

You may still run afoul of other requirements, such as a 1GHz dual-core 64-bit CPU or better, 4GB of RAM, 64GB of disk storage, and a Secure Boot–capable UEFI (formerly known as BIOS). Since this whole procedure is unsupported, you're on your own if it doesn't work.

If the upgrade was unwise, you can revert a machine back to Win10 using the following steps:

Start, Settings, System, Recovery, Go back
That sequence will work only within 10 days after installing Win11, according to a separate Microsoft support document. After that 10-day period, the new operating system will automatically delete the reversion files to liberate disk space.

The Registry hack is not for novices nor the faint of heart
For more background on why you might or might not want to use the above Registry trick to install Win11 on unsupported hardware, I spoke with one of the smartest people I know: Carl Anderson. As a contractor, he worked for eight years at DARPA (the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency). Subsequently based at Bryant University — a private business school in Smithfield, Rhode Island — he was for 24 years the director of the International Trade Data Network, initially funded and governed by the US Department of Commerce and the Small Business Administration.

Although he's now retired, Anderson still provides consulting services to a few small businesses. For their benefit, he's put together a four-page, 150KB PDF explaining various different ways to implement the Registry fix.

These ways include:

Microsoft's officially documented method;
Installing Win11 from an ISO (International Organization for Standardization) image;
Manually changing certain Win10 files so Win11 will install; or
Using an open-source batch file to make the needed changes.
Boy, there are a lot of ways to skin this cat! Anderson has kindly given me permission to let AskWoody readers download the PDF.

Anderson cautions that he won't support his clients or anyone else who installs Win11 on unsupported hardware. I'll describe the pros and cons below.

Did Microsoft create its Registry entry due to manufacturer pressure?
First, we need to address the elephant in the room. After loudly claiming that Microsoft would not allow Win 11 to install itself on machines lacking TPM 2.0, why did the company insert a simple one-line command in the Registry permitting exactly that?

Anderson accepts a rumor, which I've also heard, that Microsoft was pressed by large system manufacturers, such as HP Enterprise, to provide an easy way for their older hardware to install Win11. As he describes the situation:

After Microsoft made TPM 2.0 a "hard" requirement, HP Enterprise requested MS develop a workaround for its clients with HP hardware that passed all Win11 requirements except TPM 2.0. Microsoft acquiesced and developed the bypass allowing TPM 1.2.

MS likely hadn't intended the bypass for non-enterprise deployment, and possibly only for specific HP hardware, but the cat was out of the bag.

This leads me to believe that Win updates and patches should continue working using the bypass, but I wouldn't bet on it long-term without official word from MS.

What does Microsoft itself say about updates and security patches? The company's "Installing Windows 11" support document clearly states: "Devices that do not meet these system requirements will no longer be guaranteed to receive updates, including but not limited to security updates."

That seems pretty definite! But predicting what Redmond will and will not do in the future — especially under pressure from some of its largest buyers — is a fool's errand. Anyone who tells you they know for sure is pulling your leg. Even Microsoft executives themselves can't be certain what they'll do in the years to come.

What software runs fine on TPM 1.2, and what truly requires TPM 2.0?
As an encryption generator and secure storage device, every version of TPM is so complicated that I could write hundreds of pages on the subject. In fact — if you really need the details on TPM 2.0 — Will Arthur and David Challener have converted their 2015 book on TPM 2.0 into a free 375-page PDF. It's a heavy read. They quote one wag as calling the protocol "security through incomprehensibility."

So let's cut to the chase: What software actually requires TPM 2.0, and what software can run perfectly well on TPM 1.2? I've created Figure 1, based on Microsoft's own "TPM Recommendations" document:

TPM
                  1.2 and TPM 2.0 features
Figure 1. TPM 1.2, which exists in most of today’s PCs, can support everything that the new TPM 2.0 can — with the exception of the four categories indicated with a red “X.” Source: Author's summary of Microsoft’s “TPM Recommendations” document

A machine with TPM 1.2 enabled supports everything that TPM 2.0 does, other than the four categories with an "X" in Figure 1. Do you really need any apps such as those?

Excellent answers are provided by Steve Gibson, a security expert and the developer of SpinRite and other popular software, in his September 7 "Security Now!" PDF. (In that multi-topic report, his discussion of TPM begins on page 10.) Here's a paraphrase of his comments on the four scenarios that require TPM 2.0:

Windows Autopilot can be used to deploy hundreds of Windows PCs or HoloLens 2 devices. So no big loss there if individuals and small businesses don't have TPM 2.0.
SecureBIO is an enterprise-targeted biometric identity system. As an alternative, Windows Hello works just fine with only TPM 1.2.
Windows Defender System Guard is a post-boot integrity verifier that works with TPM 2.0 to verify that the operating system wasn't compromised during the boot. No one outside of a huge enterprise is likely to use this.
TPM 2.0 adds several 256-bit encryption ciphers, but since TPM 2.0 is backward-compatible with TPM 1.2, software could simply continue using the TPM 1.2 functions on platforms having either TPM standard.
Microsoft's "TPM Recommendations" document also mentions "Device Encryption," which is a feature that uses TPM 2.0 to encrypt entire disks. But Gibson says MS BitLocker is superior and runs just fine with either version of TPM.

The bottom line: If you need one of those four features, use TPM 2.0
What if your company wants to implement software that works only with TPM 2.0 support? By all means, get TPM 2.0–enabled PCs and run your app. But if you don't need TPM 2.0, you can tune out all the hype about Windows 11 and ignore the "upgrade" for now.

As Joanna Stern, the personal-technology columnist for The Wall Street Journal, reported in her October 6 review: "I've come to the conclusion that Windows 11 is mostly about Microsoft and its partners selling more computers, not about giving your current one a new lease on life." With its lack of compelling new features, Stern said, "Microsoft's latest feels more like Windows 10.5 than what the company promised."

In Gibson's PDF, he puts it somewhat more bluntly:

There are NO NEW FEATURES in Windows 11 that require anything more of the TPM than Windows 10 already does... yet Windows 11 is refusing to run on the same TPMs as Windows 10... apparently because someone at Microsoft thought it would be cool to enact a more restrictive change in requirements.

Given these realities, the path Microsoft should take for Windows 11 is clear: Simply use the maximum security that’s being offered by whatever, if any, TPM is present in a system. If the platform offers TPM 2.0, great! Use the 256-bit enhanced security that’s available there. If not, settle for the 160-bit security offered by SHA-1 and TPM 1.2's HMAC — just as Windows 10 does now. If a platform doesn’t offer TPM 2.0, then its user cannot take advantage of those four enterprise-oriented features ...

So, explain to those enterprise users that if they want those four features they'll need to upgrade their hardware. But don’t tell any random home or small business user, who couldn't care less about Windows Defender System Guard and Autopilot, that they're S.O.L. if they wish to upgrade to the new Windows ... It's going to be seen as capricious and arbitrary, because as we've just seen, it is. [Emphasis in the original.]

The 160-bit SHA-1 encryption protocol was fully broken by security researchers in 2020, as explained in a Threatpost blog. The researchers' attack required two months of computations using 900 GPUs. But that much computing power costs only $11,000 to $45,000 at current cloud rental rates — well within the means of serious adversaries. So you should never use SHA-1 for digital signatures or any other private communications, although many organizations still do. Only 256-bit or higher protocols are truly secure these days.

Top secret: This is being pushed by the US Department of Defense
I suppose this will cost me my high-level, "eyes only" security clearance, but I'm compelled to tell you that Microsoft's moral quandary has a lot to do with the United States' defense-security needs.

To protect my reputation as a "good citizen" — in hopes that Tom Cruise will still consider me loyal enough to play an agent in his next "Mission Impossible" film — I can deflect the blame by pointing the finger directly at Microsoft. This news leak is not my fault! The Redmond tech giant let slip the big secret in the same "TPM Recommendations" document cited above:

For security reasons, some entities are moving away from SHA-1. Notably, NIST [the National Institute of Standards and Technology] has required many federal agencies [including the Department of Defense] to move to SHA-256.

In my defense, so to speak, the Department of the Navy also spilled the beans about this "massive, multiphase" SHA-256 upgrade requirement in a recent article.

The US defense connection is also a major reason why Microsoft will prepare separate Win11 versions for sale in China, Russia, and other authoritarian regimes. In these countries and many others, TPM chips are against the law. These powers may be suspicious that the DoD has inserted a back door into TPM encryption, as I reported in my September 6 column.

Some very big dog walkers are yanking on Microsoft's collar. Despite the Redmond corporation's size and wealth, it faces a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" dilemma:

Very big makers and users of PCs, servers, and other devices are pressuring Microsoft not to make hundreds of millions of their deployed units unable to run Win11, which many CEOs will think is an essential new thing. That's the reason MS added its new, permissive Registry key.
The largest defense department in the world — which has a bigger budget than the militaries of China, Russia, and the next five countries combined — is telling Microsoft that DoD won't buy and use Windows unless SHA-256 is baked in, which requires TPM 2.0. That's why MS is making Win11 sound like a fantastic, exciting toy everyone needs.
Ignore Win11's lame new Start menu and other cosmetic changes, such as rounded corners on dialog boxes. The strange, herky-jerky intro of Win11 is all about Microsoft not wanting to lose business from two of its most profitable groups of buyers.

Good things come to those who wait
Win11 isn't a must-have upgrade yet. It's not like Win 3.1, which introduced the revolutionary TrueType printing technology in 1992, or Windows 8.1, which rescued people in 2013 from the botched Windows 8 product. For now, Win10 is your best bet for a stable, reliable platform. Microsoft has committed to continue supporting Win10 with upgrades and security patches at least through October 14, 2025 (and probably longer).

That gives you plenty of time to evaluate things. Win11 may turn out to be the Vista of operating systems.

Now you know why it's not a good idea to install Win11 with a Registry tweak. The main reason to install Win11 is if you need to implement one of the four software features shown in Figure 1. In that case, you need hardware that includes TPM 2.0, anyway — and your machines may need to meet several other system requirements as well.

Installing Win11 on unsupported hardware may simply saddle you with devices that will someday miss out on crucial Microsoft updates.

Before you do anything, read all the documents that are linked to above. Then read one of the following explainers:

If you absolutely crave whatever is the latest thing MS has put out, you'll learn how you can download Win11 now, without waiting for the gradual rollout — which is expected to continue through mid-2022 — in a CNET guide. You may need to enable TPM, if it's disabled by default on a device, as explained in a Wired article.
If you prefer to look before you leap, several deal-breaking bugs and missing features in the "1.0 version" of Win11 are described in a Trusted Reviews evaluation. Poor performance, memory leaks, no Android apps yet, hard-to-customize taskbar — oh my.
As always, watch AskWoody for more news. Features that Win10 has and that Win11 doesn't are listed in a Lance Whitney critique, while some actual new features of Win11 are in his review (donation required).



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Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 Oct 21 - 07:24 AM

A correction to a previous post.

Digikam exists as a straight Windows installable program. Another program that I thought would require KDE setting up is Kdenlive.

–
I’ve been playing around a bit with Windows and I rapidly decided that the MS Solitaire Collection is obnoxious. My own choice of patience games for that platform would PySolFC which apparently also offers some mahjong games. It does need python installed. I note that the website does mention some AV software detecting problems but I’m happy to accept that they are right in suggesting theses results are false positives and Malware Bytes gives the latest version I downloaded the all clear.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Oct 21 - 04:58 PM

Still receiving Windows 11 updates on unsupported PCs!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 04:08 PM

Notwithstanding my previous post, I have 2 unsupported computers which have received all updates for Windows 11 which is now at version 22000.258 !!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 11:56 AM

microsoft are liars and thieves.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 09:16 AM

Microsoft is successfully making a very convincing case for Chromebooks...

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Oct 21 - 08:51 AM

Cannot upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 from USB and keep files and software, has to be done from file set on hard drive. Now that won't install - I think perhaps MS is now putting something more in ISO to stop old PCs upgrading to Windows 11.