Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 04:13 PM

Ashley Hutchings?

By Windows Enterprise did you mean Windows LTSC?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Sep 21 - 03:50 PM

"There is apparently a way of upgrading Windows 10 pro to Windows Enterprise, which will be supported by MS for 10 years"

Didn't work properly and activation was lost, but better to have tripped than never danced at all!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 01:18 PM

Been there, got the T shirt!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 10:37 AM

The Win 11 iso is too big for a standard DVD. You have a dual-layer one?

Reading that reminded me of the laptop I bought circa 1996, a friend had the Windows 95 software (nothing to keep us from sharing back then) that we installed. It took a stack of about 25 3.5" floppy disks and a couple of hours to load it all.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 08:21 AM

There is apparently a way of upgrading Windows 10 pro to Windows Enterprise, which will be supported by MS for 10 years.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 08:39 AM

Never given me any problems

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 08:14 AM

Is Win 10 stable and reliable enough to reconsider using yet...???

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 08:01 AM

MS is saying that those registry hacks won't work in the future. However, I'm pretty sure that a smart person (or at least smarter than MS which isn't really all that difficult) will be able to come up with a different hack, followed by another one, and so on... So I wouldn't worry too much if you want to run Win 11 on something that MS deemed "not secure enough". That statement must be the joke of the year!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 07:56 AM

The biggest up and coming driver for electronic waste must surely be Microsoft's intention to push the Windows 11 operating system onto consumers in the very near future. This new system has mandatory minimum system requirements that will render most current PCs and laptops obsolete.

There is no valid technical reason why existing hardware should not be able be able to run "windows 11" other than the fact that Microsoft plans to build-in 'incompatibility' with current hardware. After all it's only an operating system - which does not add any real value to the apps it hosts.

This is pure greed and is totally irresponsible bearing in mind what Microsoft (and Apple) have already done to the planet and the monopoly they hold in the tech sector.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 04:50 AM

No, I withdraw last post, wrong on this instance because windows upgrades are free.

Frankly I don't care if I don't get updates after windows 11 is released, and I'm sure that the majority of users don't care either!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 04:10 AM

Typical usaian dollar obsession!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 26 Sep 21 - 03:30 AM

I doubt it. I would expect the installer to configure Windows for the particular machine - board chipset, architecture, type of processor, graphics, etc. It might work if the machines are identical - which obviously wouldn't be true if one met the MS spec and one didn't. You might have to clone the disk-ID too - if that's possible. Try it.

I see that MS are now saying that if you run Win 11 on unsupported hardware you're not entitled to updates, not that you won't get them.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 06:26 PM

Consider a PC which meets MS hardware requirements and is upgraded to Windows 11 via the media creation tool. The hard disk is then cloned and installed in a PC which does not meet Windows 11 hardware requirements - there is a good chance that it will boot up and run ok.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:31 PM

The one I used was 3.9Gb, so probably messed with!

I'm using old HDDs which don't matter. If doing this on a main PC, I would advise making a clone of the hard disk first, as installation on a PC which doesn't meet hardware requirements does not present the option to restore the previous version.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:05 PM

The Win 11 iso is too big for a standard DVD. You have a dual-layer one?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:01 PM

I have just 2 USB-3 ports, one is used for a USB-3 wifi adapter which incidentally almost trebled my max download speed.

Just tried installing the same Windows 11 from its iso burnt to DVD, which didn't work.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:58 AM

It seems the best way of installing from USB is not to change the boot order but to use whatever key selects the boot device, which depends on the computer.
See here.
I don't think using a pre-UEFI (i.e. BIOS) machine would be different, though Win 11 claims to need UEFI.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 10:31 AM

I have two USB-3 ports I hadn't been using, partly because I needed adapters for to use the USB-C ports. Now I have the adapters but don't have anything that needs connecting right now. :)

I haven't even considered installing 11 yet, I'll watch your results for a while.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 06:43 AM

I have installed a number of Windows 11 versions and they all get updates OK

Yes I found that after setting PC to boot first from USB, it does appear to be overridden to boot from HDD - I don't have SDD in my 10 year old PC!

No versions of Windows 11 have allowed roll back to previous version for some reason!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 02:43 AM

In my experience if you're clean-installing an OS from USB (or DVD) it doesn't matter what OS(es) are on the HDD: they don't run. It only matters if the installer accesses the old OS for some reason. Perhaps your Win 11 installer looks for Win 10, doesn't find it, and just treats Win 7 as 'used disc space'.

If your machine is set to boot first from USB (boot sequence in BIOS) then on first-reboot the machine will do that unless installer overrides it to boot from HDD. I don't know how Windows installers do that - maybe under UEFI on new machines it can issue a 'reboot from HDD' command. Perhaps Win 11 relies on that feature, but your machine doesn't have it.

I've read that MS have said that if you have Win 11 on 'unsupported hardware' it won't get updates.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Sep 21 - 05:09 PM

Discovered that you can install Windows 11 direct from Windows 7. Interestingly though, when installing from USB, you need to remove the usb at the first reboot, otherwise it falls into a loop back to the beginning of the installation.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 10:03 AM

Interesting find - I was looking for a wifi usb adaptor in the Argos catalogue and noticed one which supported USB 3.0. Once installed in a USB 3.0 port, maximum torrent download speed increased from 5.2MB per sec to 10.1MB per sec!! However max upload speed only increased from 3.6MB to 3.9MB per sec.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 21 - 05:42 AM

Oh dear, the power supply has blown on the 2006 PC, so I've called it a day on that one - and being an IDE motherboard, not worth spending any money on it.

I transferred its HDD containing 32bit Windows 10 to another PC which booted up OK. I used the Media Creation Tool to download a 64bit version of Windows 10 to a USB drive from which installation was started. All was fine for a while but after a reboot it stuck on a black screen with flashing cursor. Did the same on 2 further attempts, but oddly after putting a Windows 7 Enterprise disc in the dvd drive and rebooting, it gave a blue screen with "just a minute" and after a while showed set up questions - home and dry!!

It's now doing updates and will be a clean spare drive.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 08:08 AM

Found a 2017 version of Windows 10, so will make a bootable ISO and see if it will clean install on my 2006 PC!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:43 AM

32 bit support is getting rarer on Linux desktop PC distributions too. My usual desktop choice (OpenSuse) dropped it a while back for their "Leap" versions (it still exists on the rolling release Tumbleweed). I read the other day that even Xubuntu, one of the low resource variants of Ubuntu dropped it this year.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:41 AM

Does it actually have a 64 bit processor?

Look in Explorer, right click This PC, Properties

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:02 AM

Well the final outcome on my 2006 PC is that Windows 10 32 bit stays. I tried to clean install 64bit via the Media Creation Tool but it refused. I still think microsoft do not want folks to have old computers - so to microsoft I say:

I hope you never prosper
And I hope you always fail;
At everything you venture
I hope you n'er do well;
And the very ground you walk upon -
May the grass refuse to grow.....................

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 03:13 AM

It has 4GB memory, which does not require a 64-bit OS. So I initially installed 32 bit Win 10, which is smaller. But, as I said, it didn't work well.

It's mainly a spare in case my main Linux box fails. I very rarely fire up Windows on it - once in 6 months perhaps. It's not activated.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 02:20 PM

Dave, memory is cheap and should be an easy swap of old cards for new in that 2010 machine.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 11:27 AM

I just can't see how microsoft can be allowed to instantly junk millions of computers on this planet. I am sure that a hacked Windows 11 for 32bit will surface - I would be very surprised if it doesn't, there are some very clever hackers out there!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 07:07 AM

I installed 32 bit Win 10 on a 2010 PC when it came out. It's a 64 bit machine, but had so little memory I thought it wasn't worth using 64 bit Windows. It kept failing - problems with the graphics drivers. So I tried 64 bit Win 10 and it was fine. I concluded that the 32 bit drivers were not being updated, or not being tested enough.

It's dual-boot and normally runs Linux. I only use Win 10 for testing addons in Edge and updating my car's Satnav - the updater is Windows only. It's very slow to load (and update) but OK once it's running.

I installed WSL on it - Ubuntu - but couldn't see what use it was. I could run my ffmpeg scripts on it for example, but I can't think why I would.

The processor too old for Win 11.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 06:03 AM

The 2006 PC is now running 32bit Windows 10 - got stuck on OOBELOCAL whatever that is, but found a command line fix on youtube! However, as would be expected, it runs very slowly!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 11:05 AM

Going the 32bit route does enable installation of Windows 10 on this ancient PC!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 01:23 AM

Fixed the old PC built in 2006 - the Ram cards holding a mighty 2 Gb just needed reseating, then after correcting the boot order Windows 7 fired up! I tried upgrading to Windows 10 using the Media Creation Tool but it detected something missing so would not even download the files.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 09:27 AM

Meanwhile..

My two cheap durable workhorse Chromebooks are perfectly adequate for net surfing and downloading...

Unfortunately built in obsolescence means they will no longer be supported and updated by google after sometime next year.
So I might need to try converting them to Linux...???

Mine are about 5 or 6 years old, which is apparently approx the life span for formal support.

Remeber this if temted by sales bargains.
First google the year of manufacture, to confirm how many years support ane left.


Android phones only get at best two scheduled Android updates of improved security and new functions,
before being abandoned by manufacturers..

.. and my experience is an updated Android version can bugger the speed and efficiency of a previously good device...

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 08:45 AM

Fired up a very old PC- pre 2005 I'd wager, and I have the dreaded black screen! Data cable problem perhaps?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 04:56 AM

That got me wondering whether dial up had really gone completely.

As far as I can make out, Freeola was possibly the last UK company offering it. They closed their service in January 2019. Going by this page, a few companies still offer dial up in the US. I've not looked at other countries but it may also still be on offer elsewhere in the world.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 01:09 AM

Parking this here

These Old-School Internet Browsers Are Like Real-Life Time Machines
A new tool lets you experience the glory—and embarrassment—of the internet of yore

"The tool is called oldweb.today, and it’s the brainchild of Ilya Kreymer and Dragan Espenschied. It “captures the web-browsing experience before the dawn of the new millennium,” writes Murphy—a more innocent time when design was simpler, pages took longer to load and things like webrings and dial-up still existed."

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jul 21 - 10:47 AM

Clean install, corrected start menu to left, corrected display settings and connected to internet in 75 minutes - 12 year old PC with no additional software responding reasonably fast!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jul 21 - 09:38 AM

More fun - take a Windows 10 ISO and extract. Look in the Sources folder and delete the large file install.esd. Then copy and replace the remainder of the files to a Windows 11 Sources folder. Now you can install Windows 11 on any PC!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 07:38 AM

Installation build was 22000.65, which is now updating to build 22000.100

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 02:26 AM

For fun last night I cloned the hard disc on my Lenovo Thinkcentre, then fired up the clone (HDD) in an ex work pc at least 8 years old. I then installed Windows 11 which contained a dll file from Winfows 10 to bypass tpm and secure boot check. All took just under 3 hours.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 02:07 AM

I expect that the official, released, version will not install.

Windows 10 wouldn't install if your processor lacked certain features, like PAE and NX.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jul 21 - 11:12 PM

Will the new Install withhold making changes if it detects the hardware is not up to minimum requirements, or is it User's responsibility not to hit the 'go' button if User has doubts?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 28 Jul 21 - 02:30 AM

Google says "Did you mean: tpm and secure boot?"

I wouldn't update an old machine to Win 11 if it lacked 'necessary' hardware features - except in play. MS could release an update which requires these features at any time. Requiring biometric authentication, perhaps. Maybe in 2025 when Win 10 stops being updated.

Kasperski was warning the other day of fake Win 11 updates. Presumably, unlike the eventual production updates, these are unsigned. MS might use features of TPM v2 to stop that once Win 11 is released.

I hope that manufacturers continue to sell machines on which you can turn secure boot off, or at least run a non-Microsoft OS. It's cheaper to buy a Lenovo PC with Windows installed and overwrite it with Linux than buying a PC with no OS.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jul 21 - 01:45 AM

Just messing around with hard discs - an Insider version of Windows 11 (with tmp and secure boot search removed) will install over Windows 7 provided that you do a clean install - so there's no going back of course!

Updates do not include tmp and secure boot search so far, but versions "amended" for older machines will slways be there!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 08:38 AM

Good fun though!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 08:30 AM

New software is not a cure for the world wide hack.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 07:49 AM

It seems to be a bug in latest version. Oddly once the TPM and secure boot checks are jumped by a Windows 10 substitute appraiserres-dll file, no further checks are made from updates....................so far!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 04:19 PM

They certainly lied about Windows 11, I have no option to roll back to Windows 10!!