Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11 - (12!)

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 21 - 11:30 PM

Windows 11 reminds the PC ecosystem of the value of major releases

After years of anonymous Windows tweaks, Microsoft's big reveal celebrates the PC at a time when new Mac features have become largely about tying it more tightly into the rest of Apple's products and services.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Jul 21 - 08:47 AM

"Yes, Bonzo - but only 120 GB (they expect us to use cloud storage, I think) with only 16.5 GB left (I think we are supposed to leave about that much for updates, etc.). Thus, I added the above 60 GB card."

No way will I entrust my data to cloud storage. I have a 500gb ssd and 500HDD in my Lenovo Thinkcentre.

I can't remember if I put this elsewhere, but 2 weeks ago I ran the MS utility to see if my Thinkcentre can run Windows 11. It told me that "secure boot" was not enabled - easily remedied in bios..........but then on restart I got "Error 1962: No operating system found. Boot sequence will automatically repeat." So Lenovo owners beware!

After many frustrating hours of trying to solve the problem using various "fixes" I came accross a fix that worked. All that was necessary was a couple of tweaks to the start up bios - enable CSM, and in Boot Priority change Legacy First to UEFI First, whatever that does. Then on startup I got the endless circle followed by the magic words "Getting Devices Ready" - home and dry!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 14 Jul 21 - 07:57 AM

An invitation to upgrade to Windows 11 appeared on my work PC today!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jul 21 - 02:29 AM

Windows 11: What we like and don't like about Microsoft's operating system so far

Upgrade from Windows 10 is free. Windows 10 will be supported until October 14, 2025.

"Even Windows backup is still there in Control Panel, under the mysterious label "Backup and Restore (Windows 7)." This is the same as on Windows 10, though worth mentioning here, since unlike the strongly promoted File History in the Settings applet, this old-style backup actually is a full backup of the system that can be saved to a drive and taken offline – just the thing in these days of ransomware."

I'm not sure this is correct. When my wife's machine was upgraded to Win 10 I continued to use 'Win 7 backup' (in addition to File History) to backup monthly to a local drive. But after a recent reinstall it said that it was only capable of restoring backups but not making new ones. Anybody using 'Win 7 backup' to a local disk on Win 10?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Ed.
Date: 21 Jul 21 - 12:13 PM

Anybody using 'Win 7 backup' to a local disk on Win 10?

Dave,

See my Windows Backup queries thread.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jul 21 - 01:58 PM

microsoft states a great deal of mumbo jumbo about requirements for upgrading to Windows 11. I shall wait for a preactivated version first!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Jul 21 - 05:40 PM

Installed Windows 11 on 8 year old PC - TPM bypassed!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Jul 21 - 02:03 AM

I don't like the start menu in the middle of the screen - lunacy!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Jul 21 - 10:29 AM

I have Windows 7 backup set to run weekly on my Win10 machine. There really isn't another Windows option. Long gone are the days of Norton Ghost. . .

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 02:43 AM

Very annoying that Windows 11 does not allow installation of my TP-link 722N wifi adaptor, and that it will not allow you to see the characters when putting in the router password.

Taskbar is now aligned left and looks better.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 08:04 AM

I don't mean the Taskbar, I mean the Start Menu!! Unfortunately the video bit of the motherboard is on the blink as it turns very bright after a couple of hours.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 05:06 AM

I also installed the beta version on a 12 year old desktop, that is a beta version doesn't check for the TPM module and secure boot!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 04:19 PM

They certainly lied about Windows 11, I have no option to roll back to Windows 10!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 07:49 AM

It seems to be a bug in latest version. Oddly once the TPM and secure boot checks are jumped by a Windows 10 substitute appraiserres-dll file, no further checks are made from updates....................so far!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 08:30 AM

New software is not a cure for the world wide hack.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 08:38 AM

Good fun though!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jul 21 - 01:45 AM

Just messing around with hard discs - an Insider version of Windows 11 (with tmp and secure boot search removed) will install over Windows 7 provided that you do a clean install - so there's no going back of course!

Updates do not include tmp and secure boot search so far, but versions "amended" for older machines will slways be there!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 28 Jul 21 - 02:30 AM

Google says "Did you mean: tpm and secure boot?"

I wouldn't update an old machine to Win 11 if it lacked 'necessary' hardware features - except in play. MS could release an update which requires these features at any time. Requiring biometric authentication, perhaps. Maybe in 2025 when Win 10 stops being updated.

Kasperski was warning the other day of fake Win 11 updates. Presumably, unlike the eventual production updates, these are unsigned. MS might use features of TPM v2 to stop that once Win 11 is released.

I hope that manufacturers continue to sell machines on which you can turn secure boot off, or at least run a non-Microsoft OS. It's cheaper to buy a Lenovo PC with Windows installed and overwrite it with Linux than buying a PC with no OS.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jul 21 - 11:12 PM

Will the new Install withhold making changes if it detects the hardware is not up to minimum requirements, or is it User's responsibility not to hit the 'go' button if User has doubts?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 02:07 AM

I expect that the official, released, version will not install.

Windows 10 wouldn't install if your processor lacked certain features, like PAE and NX.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 02:26 AM

For fun last night I cloned the hard disc on my Lenovo Thinkcentre, then fired up the clone (HDD) in an ex work pc at least 8 years old. I then installed Windows 11 which contained a dll file from Winfows 10 to bypass tpm and secure boot check. All took just under 3 hours.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jul 21 - 07:38 AM

Installation build was 22000.65, which is now updating to build 22000.100

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jul 21 - 09:38 AM

More fun - take a Windows 10 ISO and extract. Look in the Sources folder and delete the large file install.esd. Then copy and replace the remainder of the files to a Windows 11 Sources folder. Now you can install Windows 11 on any PC!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 31 Jul 21 - 10:47 AM

Clean install, corrected start menu to left, corrected display settings and connected to internet in 75 minutes - 12 year old PC with no additional software responding reasonably fast!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 01:09 AM

Parking this here

These Old-School Internet Browsers Are Like Real-Life Time Machines
A new tool lets you experience the glory—and embarrassment—of the internet of yore

"The tool is called oldweb.today, and it’s the brainchild of Ilya Kreymer and Dragan Espenschied. It “captures the web-browsing experience before the dawn of the new millennium,” writes Murphy—a more innocent time when design was simpler, pages took longer to load and things like webrings and dial-up still existed."

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Aug 21 - 04:56 AM

That got me wondering whether dial up had really gone completely.

As far as I can make out, Freeola was possibly the last UK company offering it. They closed their service in January 2019. Going by this page, a few companies still offer dial up in the US. I've not looked at other countries but it may also still be on offer elsewhere in the world.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 08:45 AM

Fired up a very old PC- pre 2005 I'd wager, and I have the dreaded black screen! Data cable problem perhaps?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 09:27 AM

Meanwhile..

My two cheap durable workhorse Chromebooks are perfectly adequate for net surfing and downloading...

Unfortunately built in obsolescence means they will no longer be supported and updated by google after sometime next year.
So I might need to try converting them to Linux...???

Mine are about 5 or 6 years old, which is apparently approx the life span for formal support.

Remeber this if temted by sales bargains.
First google the year of manufacture, to confirm how many years support ane left.


Android phones only get at best two scheduled Android updates of improved security and new functions,
before being abandoned by manufacturers..

.. and my experience is an updated Android version can bugger the speed and efficiency of a previously good device...

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 01:23 AM

Fixed the old PC built in 2006 - the Ram cards holding a mighty 2 Gb just needed reseating, then after correcting the boot order Windows 7 fired up! I tried upgrading to Windows 10 using the Media Creation Tool but it detected something missing so would not even download the files.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 11:05 AM

Going the 32bit route does enable installation of Windows 10 on this ancient PC!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 06:03 AM

The 2006 PC is now running 32bit Windows 10 - got stuck on OOBELOCAL whatever that is, but found a command line fix on youtube! However, as would be expected, it runs very slowly!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 07:07 AM

I installed 32 bit Win 10 on a 2010 PC when it came out. It's a 64 bit machine, but had so little memory I thought it wasn't worth using 64 bit Windows. It kept failing - problems with the graphics drivers. So I tried 64 bit Win 10 and it was fine. I concluded that the 32 bit drivers were not being updated, or not being tested enough.

It's dual-boot and normally runs Linux. I only use Win 10 for testing addons in Edge and updating my car's Satnav - the updater is Windows only. It's very slow to load (and update) but OK once it's running.

I installed WSL on it - Ubuntu - but couldn't see what use it was. I could run my ffmpeg scripts on it for example, but I can't think why I would.

The processor too old for Win 11.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 11:27 AM

I just can't see how microsoft can be allowed to instantly junk millions of computers on this planet. I am sure that a hacked Windows 11 for 32bit will surface - I would be very surprised if it doesn't, there are some very clever hackers out there!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 02:20 PM

Dave, memory is cheap and should be an easy swap of old cards for new in that 2010 machine.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 03:13 AM

It has 4GB memory, which does not require a 64-bit OS. So I initially installed 32 bit Win 10, which is smaller. But, as I said, it didn't work well.

It's mainly a spare in case my main Linux box fails. I very rarely fire up Windows on it - once in 6 months perhaps. It's not activated.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:02 AM

Well the final outcome on my 2006 PC is that Windows 10 32 bit stays. I tried to clean install 64bit via the Media Creation Tool but it refused. I still think microsoft do not want folks to have old computers - so to microsoft I say:

I hope you never prosper
And I hope you always fail;
At everything you venture
I hope you n'er do well;
And the very ground you walk upon -
May the grass refuse to grow.....................

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:41 AM

Does it actually have a 64 bit processor?

Look in Explorer, right click This PC, Properties

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 08 Aug 21 - 08:43 AM

32 bit support is getting rarer on Linux desktop PC distributions too. My usual desktop choice (OpenSuse) dropped it a while back for their "Leap" versions (it still exists on the rolling release Tumbleweed). I read the other day that even Xubuntu, one of the low resource variants of Ubuntu dropped it this year.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 08:08 AM

Found a 2017 version of Windows 10, so will make a bootable ISO and see if it will clean install on my 2006 PC!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Aug 21 - 05:42 AM

Oh dear, the power supply has blown on the 2006 PC, so I've called it a day on that one - and being an IDE motherboard, not worth spending any money on it.

I transferred its HDD containing 32bit Windows 10 to another PC which booted up OK. I used the Media Creation Tool to download a 64bit version of Windows 10 to a USB drive from which installation was started. All was fine for a while but after a reboot it stuck on a black screen with flashing cursor. Did the same on 2 further attempts, but oddly after putting a Windows 7 Enterprise disc in the dvd drive and rebooting, it gave a blue screen with "just a minute" and after a while showed set up questions - home and dry!!

It's now doing updates and will be a clean spare drive.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 10:03 AM

Interesting find - I was looking for a wifi usb adaptor in the Argos catalogue and noticed one which supported USB 3.0. Once installed in a USB 3.0 port, maximum torrent download speed increased from 5.2MB per sec to 10.1MB per sec!! However max upload speed only increased from 3.6MB to 3.9MB per sec.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Sep 21 - 05:09 PM

Discovered that you can install Windows 11 direct from Windows 7. Interestingly though, when installing from USB, you need to remove the usb at the first reboot, otherwise it falls into a loop back to the beginning of the installation.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 02:43 AM

In my experience if you're clean-installing an OS from USB (or DVD) it doesn't matter what OS(es) are on the HDD: they don't run. It only matters if the installer accesses the old OS for some reason. Perhaps your Win 11 installer looks for Win 10, doesn't find it, and just treats Win 7 as 'used disc space'.

If your machine is set to boot first from USB (boot sequence in BIOS) then on first-reboot the machine will do that unless installer overrides it to boot from HDD. I don't know how Windows installers do that - maybe under UEFI on new machines it can issue a 'reboot from HDD' command. Perhaps Win 11 relies on that feature, but your machine doesn't have it.

I've read that MS have said that if you have Win 11 on 'unsupported hardware' it won't get updates.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 06:43 AM

I have installed a number of Windows 11 versions and they all get updates OK

Yes I found that after setting PC to boot first from USB, it does appear to be overridden to boot from HDD - I don't have SDD in my 10 year old PC!

No versions of Windows 11 have allowed roll back to previous version for some reason!!

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 10:31 AM

I have two USB-3 ports I hadn't been using, partly because I needed adapters for to use the USB-C ports. Now I have the adapters but don't have anything that needs connecting right now. :)

I haven't even considered installing 11 yet, I'll watch your results for a while.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 11:58 AM

It seems the best way of installing from USB is not to change the boot order but to use whatever key selects the boot device, which depends on the computer.
See here.
I don't think using a pre-UEFI (i.e. BIOS) machine would be different, though Win 11 claims to need UEFI.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:01 PM

I have just 2 USB-3 ports, one is used for a USB-3 wifi adapter which incidentally almost trebled my max download speed.

Just tried installing the same Windows 11 from its iso burnt to DVD, which didn't work.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: DaveRo
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:05 PM

The Win 11 iso is too big for a standard DVD. You have a dual-layer one?

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 12:31 PM

The one I used was 3.9Gb, so probably messed with!

I'm using old HDDs which don't matter. If doing this on a main PC, I would advise making a clone of the hard disk first, as installation on a PC which doesn't meet hardware requirements does not present the option to restore the previous version.

Subject: RE: Tech: They lied, Here's Windows 11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 25 Sep 21 - 06:26 PM

Consider a PC which meets MS hardware requirements and is upgraded to Windows 11 via the media creation tool. The hard disk is then cloned and installed in a PC which does not meet Windows 11 hardware requirements - there is a good chance that it will boot up and run ok.