BS: Another shooting in US

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: leeneia
Date: 30 Jul 22 - 02:17 PM

Thanks for the link, Stilly. It gives one a lot to think about.

I'm glad they didn't name the perp. I have read that one motive for these "school" shooters is fame. The less notoriety we grant them, the better off we will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Jul 22 - 05:23 AM

Los Angeles: Two killed and five injured in shooting in San Pedro park
Two people were killed and five others wounded in a shooting at a Los Angeles park on Sunday (24 July).

Gunfire broke out at an informal car show in the community of San Pedro, according to the Los Angeles Fire Department.

As part of Southern California car culture, owners of classic cars and low riders often gather in public places to show off their rides.

The shooting victims, four men and three women, ranged in age from 23 to 54, but a spokesperson said he could offer no information about what caused the confrontation.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Jun 22 - 11:58 AM

In contrast to the police delay to confront the Uvalde shooter, Duncanville police took out a shooter quickly.

https://www.npr.org/2022/06/14/1104904845/police-dallas-area-kill-gunman-summer-camp-for-kids-duncanville-fieldhouse.

A gunman opened fire inside a building where more than 250 kids and staff were starting a day of summer camp on Monday, setting off a panic that ended with a gunfight with police in Duncanville, Texas.

Officers shot the attacker, who was later declared dead at a local hospital. Authorities are crediting the fast response by camp staff and police with preventing injuries to anyone else.

Duncanville is SW of Dallas and east of Fort Worth.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 12:43 PM

Gun owner rights are superior to the lives of American children who by the way die from bullets from guns as their leading cause of death.

Before children are born their lives are invaluable and women's rights are negligible. After they are born, rights are reduced to that of women (on the conservative side of things)

India still has sacred cows but we have sacred guns that trump people's   lives in church, on the job, in school, on the road, at the movies, at military installations, concerts and kindergartens.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 07:16 AM

Get to know what the other side of the gun debate is about.
"We did not ban airplanes after 9-11."
"We have to protect weapons over the lives illegaly taken."
"We need better doors and mental health at schools"
"After the school accident, Democrats shamfully politicized the deaths."


Its all part of running out the clock.


Have you ever heard of a mass shooter calling 911 to declare to police "I'm about to shoot Bret Cavanaugh, I am 2 blocks from his house..."??

No one was harmed or shot. The good guys came to the rescue of the Justice. It is a very curious story about a (mentally ill) young man from Californis that had a job to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jun 22 - 10:15 AM

I just got to Philly. I feel safer that they just *had* a mass shooting.

I remember in the 70s feeling safer flying if there had just been a hijacking or plane crash. Similar fallacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 03:26 PM

On track for well over 500 this year then. A world beating 'achievement' that would surely make every gun nut proud to be American.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 06:12 AM

Progressive news channels report 13 mass shootings in these last 2 weeks
Fox reports 2

240 mass shootings have occured this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 06:30 PM

Without realizing it I have been associating our various summer get aways with the mass shooting that was concurrent with the trips.
Williamsburg: Colorado movie shooter
Northwest coast trip: Uvelve Texas shooting
etc.
With 3 mass shootings a week there is no shortage.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 02:43 PM

The book by Chivers: "The Gun" is about the design, development, and massive manufacture of the AK-47 which was stockpiled in the millions and used by the USSR as an inducement to influence foreign policy. It was a tool in the deaths of over a million people since its creation.

Apparently its namesake, Mikhail Kalashnikov, was quite proud of his design, but also aware of its consequences and not proud of that part.
Which also reminded me of the Nicolas Cage movie of almost 20 years ago: "Lord of War"

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 02:32 PM

Not sure that'd work, SRS: in films, heroes are always lucky, and need neither body armour nor more than one shot. Behaving like a film hero in real life doesn't guarantee you'll be lucky --- far from it.

The remainder of this train of thought has been delayed at Paddington, awaiting the unloading of a Very Important Bear's crate of marmalade sandwiches.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 10:38 AM

If the feds were smart they'd track the sales of body armor.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 09:02 AM

And another

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 08:46 AM

Why? Republicans https://uproxx.com/viral/marjorie-taylor-greene-gun-giveaway-joe-biden-taliban/

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 22 - 07:12 PM

I was surprised that more kids were shot and killed than on duty policemen this year.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jun 22 - 05:54 PM

I'd sooner live in a world without guns, or for that matter cars or many other things that are part of our civilisation.

But magic thinking doesn't work. What we have to do is agree on ways of controlling these things, and eliminating or minimising the bad consequences. We are lucky in the UK to have a culture in which virtually eliminating gun worship has been possible. Many, in fact most other parts of the world haven't been so lucky.

The USA isn't the only country where private gun ownership is a constitutional right, and it isn't the only country where gun ownership is quite common. But it is the only country where it is a national obsession, and where mass killings of this sort are are regular events, and other kinds of gun deaths are so commonplace.

There is no contradiction between there being a right to have a gun and and for the exercise of that right being subject to stringent requirements. I don't like the word "privilege" being used in this context, any more than in many others where it is deployed too readily.
……..

The sad thing is how the title of this thread is always freshly the case. I note today there's a story of a judge getting killed by a nut with a death list of a string of other public people.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Jun 22 - 04:23 PM

Why should it be a privilege? Why should it happen at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 10:55 PM

Unfortunately, it is a right. I agree it oughta be a privilege.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 08:43 PM

Seriously I know and Stephen Colbert knows of the actual love affair some people have with their guns.

Greg Stube of Florida is in Congress. Here he is debating a gun bill today. https://twitter.com/i/status/1532399894773878784

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 07:41 PM

A little girl watched the 19 slain children on TV and asked,"Mom, what picture will you use of me"?

Mcgrath has a point there are few things that are so elegant, mysterious, precious and lovable that can reach out and touch someone as deeply as a gun. But that is only half of the fairey tale . Behold the bullet! The graceful taper leading to a point of excellence and infinity. -Swoon- Nothing is as fun and spontaneous as bullets in a hot frying pan. Nothing as perfect and precise as a well aimed bullet, pronounced bule'. A well dressed man may sport a Rolex but nothing gets attention like an AR draped accross his chest. Accessories are to die for. They even sell a small splash guard for close up work and round 100 bullet magazines that will make your barrel glow red by the time its empty 000h. I say let the big dog bark loud and forget those puny silencers. The freedom, the glory, the power and the smell of gunpowder in the morning is pure ectasy...err um... well
I suppose guns could be cool. I have friends who are gun nuts, Hazel, Walt and Pete. There is nothing like gun nuts boastin when they open fire.

Biden is now making his appeal on TV tonight...

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 07:38 PM

Sorry, Bill, but you got the "football riots" thing arse about face. The Liverpool fans in Paris were absolutely not to blame for the over-reaction of the French police. The fake ticket thing happens at every big sports event, nothing has been proven, and the accusation by the French that fake tickets were done "on an industrial scale" is just bullshit intended to divert attention away from the shortcomings of the EUFA organisation and the pathetic and heavy-handed response of the French police.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 06:58 PM

The thing in France was a minor scuffle? I did include "other countries". I read several articles about it...including the fake ticket scandal. I know that slow and inadequate police presence contributed. *shrug*.. but just because no one got trampled or got onto the field, it still seemed like quite a mess.

My point was that around the world, there are serious things done in anger. There was some player in (Columbia?) killed because of an 'own goal' a number of years ago.

Well, I'm glad it's better about the riots...at least those are easier to deal with... but the gun issues here will likely persist for the foreseeable future. Simply too many guns and idiots out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 06:12 PM

Being fascinated with guns is almost as easy to understand as being fascinated by musical instruments. They can both be ingeniously designed and constructed and beautiful as objects.

It's easy enough to see how there can be some people who would see efforts to regulate ownership as a threat. What I find hard is how such people could ever be more than a tiny fringe of disregarded weirdos. Even if they had money to burn, how could they have a stranglehold on a major political party.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 04:58 PM

We have stopped football riots. The little scuffles we get today are as nothing compared to the hooliganism of the seventies and eighties. The word riot is not appropriate. The issue at the Champions League final in Paris was not the result of supporter misbehaviour. I suggest thst you choose your sources of news a little more carefully, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 11:15 AM

McGrath... I'm sure, as you say, that 'sane' gun owners would agree... but in such cases, sane is itself ambiguous.
On issues like guns, abortion, immigration, LGBTQ rights...etc.. sanity is problematic.

I'd counter by asking why Britain and other countries can't stop football/soccer riots. Are those who crash gates and pick fights 'sane'?

Humans are distinguished by their ability to rationalize and ignore laws on certain topics... sadly, fascination with guns is the albatross WE are burdened with.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 11:04 AM

Dave TK
Yes.. and the Swiss actions make perfect sense. Sane & reasonable.
But here, the bureaucratic process to institute such changes has so many barriers that it is almost dead from the start.

Today, there is an article..if you can access it.. about how the US House of Representatives has begun..Unfortunately it is pretty soft and weak...
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gun-control-legislation-protecting-our-kids-act-house-judiciary-committee/

"The House Judiciary Committee on Thursday will consider eight pieces of gun control legislation that will be packaged together as the "Protecting Our Kids Act" and will move to the House floor for a vote next week, according to a committee aide. That movement comes as President Biden told reporters Tuesday that he will meet with Congress on guns.
The legislation under consideration by House Democrats would do the following

Raise the age for purchasing a semiautomatic centerfire rifle from 18 to 21 years old
Make it illegal to import, sell, manufacture, transfer or possess a large-capacity magazine, with some exceptions
Establish requirements regulating the storage of firearms on residential facilities
Build on the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' regulatory ban on bump stocks, attachments to guns that make rapid-fire easier. Existing bump stocks would have to be registered, and sale and possession by civilians of bump stocks would be banned.
Current federal firearms regulations would apply to so-called "ghost guns."

It will 'probably' pass in the House...but the Senate is another matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: robomatic
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 10:34 AM

It is called 'DEEPITY
'.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 10:12 AM

I gather that it's more important to have guns than abortion in some states!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 09:11 AM

As Bill said, restrictions on who can buy guns and what kind of guns are needed in any country. And of course it's hard to identify possible misusers - but the fact that something necessary is hard is never a good reason not to do it.

What I find hard to understand how any sane gun enthusiasts would not agree to that. I can understand there are some who would see things like that as being a step towards a total ban, but not how they can be anything but a fringe minority among gun owners, to be ridiculed and disliked.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 08:56 AM

And a good start to changing that mindset would be to replace the ‘right’ to own a gun with the principle that it’s a privilege. Strict registration and vetting of all gun-owners, and restrictions on what types of gun they are allowed to own. That’s how it’s done in the UK and Australia, and <100 shooting deaths a year proves it works.

No civilian needs military-style assault weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 08:46 AM

The idea that shooting people is a *reasonable* response to discomfort is very much the American mindset.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 05:57 AM

Obviously it’s Open Season, Steve… :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 05:06 AM

...And another...

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 03:42 AM

Bill, did you see my linked article on how the Swiss manage to do it?

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 09:45 PM

McGrath...It is just very hard to identify possible misusers if they have no history of threats or arrests. Yes...there needs to need new restrictions on ANYONE buying guns, as well as what kind they can buy.
   Maybe now we can get **some** progress.
I DO see how, given our history, reverence for guns can morph into misuse. I referred to such things in my long post.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 07:57 PM

I wonder how much straw it takes to break a Camel's back.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 07:39 PM

**** dis ease. I think good health is just a constant state of healing whether we know it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 07:39 PM

I can see how there can be a cult of gun-owners who revere them, and see them as a central part of a national tradition. But I find it hard to understand how that could go astray Into defending the ability of people to defile that tradition by how they misuse guns.

So I'd expect to see people who see guns that way to be actively demanding checks on how guns could get into the hands of people liable to misuse them, and on the types of guns they could have. Not just because that would go towards protecting the right to own guns from those who might wish to oppose that, but even more because the misuse of guns was a kind of blasphemy.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: keberoxu
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 07:19 PM

It's a disease, at this point.
Treatable, perhaps, but ... curable??

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 07:17 PM

HIGH FIVES ALL AROUND FOR THE NRA - Another shooting at a Hospital.
You see AR sales skyrocket when mass shootings threaten the manufacture of AR military weapons, in the mind of buyers.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 05:15 PM

I can see that if you want to something about this predicament that your country is in - its not going to be easy.

But neither was the campaign for integration and racial equality.

Its going to take that sort of united front to assert basic decency.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 02:07 PM

The NRA has very little clout except about campaign contributions. They were embarrassed when their 'leader' stole funds from them and they were dissolved..only to be re-created in Texas.
   The gun lobby is aligned with the Christian Right and the anti-abortionists and the conspiracy theorists...etc... all of whom just rely on their 'bought' politicians to object to almost anything Democrats do.
   It's all fueled by fears of being primaried by Trump supporters.

The history of why a "crazy obsession" turns into a mass movement is simply a history of how, when and by whom this country was settled. Guns were part of the Western frontier movement, and ownership was simple & normal until recently. It wasn't until after WWII that former soldiers and more powerful guns began to create a **gun culture** apart from hunters and ranchers...etc. The first real mass shooting was in 1947 when Howard Unrah, a former soldier, ran down the street in NYC and killed a bunch of people.
   Now, in some areas, it is simply a macho thing that leads to collecting guns and inevitably to using them for anything from holdups to settling scores.

and so here we are.........

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 01:01 PM

That goes a long way to amplify the power of a dodgy but sizeable minority, but it doesn't explain why an essentially crazy obsession can turn into to a mass movement.

As the leading organisation of gun owners, the NRA ought to be leading the way towards gun controls, not fighting them. WhereI live the AutomobileAssociation would vigorously fight in defence of having stringent driving tests and sensible speed limits. There might be arguments about how stringent or what " sensible" should mean, but in principle there'd be agreement.   

But the NRA is into way out crazy extremism, and seemingly rational people back them in numbers enough to mean their lobbying has teeth, and the politicians they buy don't get thrown on the dustheap by the voters the next time they stand for election.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 12:36 PM

Of course ghost guns are a minor aspect of the larger problem, but baby steps are meaningful right now when serious steps are so difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 12:30 PM

Our Govenor is ducking for cover by not signing the no ghost gun law if it is without a serial number but he did not openly oppose it.
Virginia will now make undetectable ghost guns illegal IF THEY DON'T HAVE A SERIAL NUMBER REGISTERED. big deal.
We're chasing ghosts instead of banning AK's.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 12:14 PM

This just appeared today on my news feed
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/01/1102239642/school-shooting-dunblane-massacre-uvalde-texas-gun-control
It 'almost' makes the point I just made above.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 11:47 AM

The thing that it's hard to explain to Europeans ...and others... is that The United States is not really 'united' in many ways.
   Because of the way the Constitution is written, individual states... and thus their members of Congress... have the ability to create laws that vary widely from each other. This makes is easier for lobbyists to focus their pressures and money on certain areas, depending on the issue.
   Of course you in the U.K. won't see Yorkshire, Suffolk and Devon passing laws about guns in totally different ways! But here, Texas and Maryland might as well be different countries. (Maryland is just now banning "ghost guns")

   We are trapped in this circular political situation because of one phrase in the 2nd Amendment that was clear enough in the 1780s, but has no relevance now. Back then,'militia' was a useful word for citizens who came together to serve the government...usually temporarily. British forces in 1780 had a number of formal, named militias, so when the new U.S. was declared, it realized that, lacking a standing army, citizens might be needed to bring THEIR OWN rifles to defend things. These were non-standard weapons... there was little or no armory to distribute any.
(Commercial, standardized guns didn't become a reality until just prior to and during the Civil War.) Of course it made sense to give citizens the right privilege of "keeping and bearing" those "arms".)
Now, that phrase's wording is obsolete...but conservatives find the original wording very convenient, and will resist having it re-written... and the judicial system, the stupid electoral college and Gerrymandered districts--plus voter suppression and new laws in conservative states that give state legislatures the right to decide what votes to count--- are making the playing field unbalanced.
   So.. now the Republicans have switched tactics and are using our own historical system against the Democrats, and trying to ensure that Minority Rule becomes almost impossible to change!!!
   Trump, plus McConnell..which gave us a lopsided SCOTUS... means that Democracy is in serious danger.

Democrats can introduce legislation... but it only takes ONE Senator to block almost anything..so far. (Lots of work being done to stop that...but,,,*shrug*)


   A majority of Americans want gun laws changed... but we have NO way to vote on that directly. I am old.. and probably won't see how it all turns out. I wish it didn't have to be this way....

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 22 - 08:38 PM

It will be interesting to see how the problem of a developing smuggling trade of guns to Canada from the USA plays out.
………….

There are lobbyists working on divisive issues in most countries, but somehow they rarely seem to have managed to achieve the same kind of traction as in the US. Maybe Brexit is the outstanding exception. I can't conceive of a pro-gun lobby having any possibility of making any kind of headway here, no matter how much money it had to throw about.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 31 May 22 - 08:04 PM

Canada leads the way by freezing any public handgun sales.
The violence south of the border is the impetus for such insifgtful action.

Subject: RE: BS: Another shooting in US
From: Donuel
Date: 31 May 22 - 07:33 PM

I loved the genius of the POV rifle. If shot by this new gun the shooter would immediately see everything from the victim's pov.

In the darkest times you laugh through your tears.
'Russain saying.'