BS: 2021 Olympics

Subject: BS: Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 08:26 AM

If the olympics opening, competition and closing ceremonies occur without attendees, does it make a sound?

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 08:57 AM

Olympic news pales in comparison to real news

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jul 21 - 09:50 AM

Bronze - Kent variation
Silver - Delta
Gold, stewards decision TBA, depends on the wind (phew).

Subject: RE: BS: Olympics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 10:20 AM

I saw a little bit of the opening ceremony last night. The actual structure with the Olympic flame is beautiful, but the part of the ceremony I saw was tepid.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 04:41 PM

I saw a picture of a GB woman footballer in the Telegraph this week, in an article about "taking the knee". The view was from behind, and I thought it was highlighting that they expected to get into the medals.
How was I to know we had a player called Lucy Bronze?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 06:35 PM

Good luck to all those honest athletes who have trained hard for years and who play fair. Bad luck to those who dose themselves with drugs they hope can't be detected. My problem is that I don't know who's who.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 07:27 PM

I've had a bad opinion of IOC for years. The CBC aired a documentary called: "Faster, Higher Stronger, Richer" about the fat cats in control of the franchise and there have been several scandals on that score in the years since. I still fall for what passes for ceremony and the great athletes that get profiled on 60 minutes but unless I'm watching a big screen in a public area I feel very little connection with them.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Jul 21 - 07:31 PM

In the first couple of days, they run all sort of sports that are not the 'big draws'. I happened to stumble on the Dressage (horses doing fancy footwork) and saw a German rider with a wonderful 14 year old horse doing a magnificent, amazing display of careful steps. I can see no obvious way she controlled the horse..it was as if after learning, the horse just did it all by rote. I'm sure there were tiny signals, but I suppose it was supposed to look that way.
...and this rider was supposed to be Germany's #2!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 04:21 AM

Steve, I just say "they're all on drugs" and leave it at that. It may be unfair but I don't care for most of the Olympic sports anyway.

Besides that, I feel that drugs are likely to have a bigger impact on things I don't enjoy (eg. running) than ones that might just attract my interest (eg. football).

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 04:48 AM

That's how I feel too, and I feel sorry for the athletes who have trained with great dedication and stayed clean.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 12:50 PM

I'm just not convinced that having a mass gathering during a pandemic is a good idea. Especially just to see who can run faster, jump higher and fast louder (OK, I made the last one up but it SHOULD be an Olympic sport)

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 12:53 PM

Re: my post yesterday
article

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 Jul 21 - 11:30 PM

Visiting kin with [tv] cable, so watching a lot of them, rooting for countries where I've lived... Enjoying it for the 2 days I'm here, au moins.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jul 21 - 02:03 AM

Congratulations to Lydia Jacoby of Seward, Alaska for winning gold in the 100 M breaststroke in Japan!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jul 21 - 02:43 AM

Of course my made up event should have read fart louder - damn you spell checker! But would that be any stranger than cross country mountain biking, skateboarding or synchronised diving? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jul 21 - 06:08 AM

robomatic, I too am pleased with Jacoby's win. Alaska is a big state but in terms of its population it really is quite small. Our total population is less than that of many a city 'down south'.

And that means that we don't have the amenities and facilities available to dedicated sports people that many have. I read that Alaska has only ONE Olympic sized pool in the whole state!

Lydia Jacoby and her supporters in the small town of Seward can be very proud of themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Jul 21 - 02:50 PM

Yeah, I'm going dog walking with someone from Seward in 5 minutes. Gonna see if she remembers anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 Aug 21 - 11:35 AM

incredible Olympic high jump final ended with both Qatar's Mutaz Essa Barshim and Italy's Gianmarco Tamberi taking gold medals.

After an exhausting two-hour competition, the pair couldn't be split, having recorded best clearances of 2.37 metres.

The athletes were offered an opportunity to take part in a jump-off.

But in a moment of sportsmanship, they agreed to share the title, sparking huge celebrations.

Both had three failures as they attempted to match the Olympic record of 2.39m and, with error-free records on countback, could have fought for sole possession of the title.

Instead, they made history - it was the first joint Olympic podium in athletics since 1912.

Tokyo Olympics: 'Can we have two golds?' - high jumpers share win

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Aug 21 - 12:33 PM

Amazing highjump competition, great sportsmanship!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 01:49 AM

Very clever how high jumpers go over the bar in slow motion!!!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 04:22 PM

Everyone is entitled to use performance enhancing concentrated oxygen and water with electrolytes yet non performance substances are banned showing how arbitrary rules can be.
The womens weight lifting event was scary.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 04:55 PM

Not your best ever post.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 05:59 PM

Well sweetie I'm an average American. Why don't the horses get a medal but only the human riders?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 07:17 PM

You're certainly not above average. Tell us why you found a weightlifting competition scary.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: robomatic
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 07:47 PM

Simone Biles continues to be inspirational. She has had a part more difficult to play than she first envisaged but has proven to be an important waypoint in physical competition and its limits.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 08:44 PM

Now I have no wish to be judgemental, but I've heard the term "mental health" tossed around a bit too frequently for my liking in these Olympics (and beyond). As I see it, if you're in competition at the very highest level, a good part of your mindset should consist of determination, focus, bloody-mindedness and the ability to put the psychological trauma of setbacks and failures to one side. To me, those attributes in sport are just as important as practice, fitness and the acquisition of skills. The young lady who butted out of several gymnastic events, claiming mental health issues, who then came back to perform at the very end, had me scratching my head a bit. Surely she should just have gone home to see her medical professionals. Instead, she made a mistake in her first event (and what elite sportsperson doesn't make mistakes?) and cried off. I wonder what therapist she consulted and what the diagnosis was...

Anyhow, as I say, I have no wish to be judgemental. I'm just musing...

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Aug 21 - 09:09 PM

And I honestly can't see how you can regard someone who is a supposed legend, who cocked up her first event then embarrassingly withdrew instead of carrying on, who then withdrew from several other events amidst a fanfare, then returned to win a bronze, as "inspirational." Dozens of others in these games have won bronzes, many of whom have struggled from nowhere to reach that pinnacle. Yet you call a woman who butted out of several competitions with no apparent physical injuries, and came back on her own terms to win a mere bronze, "inspirational." Well I think that there there are hundreds of other athletes at these games who would be a damn sight more inspirational...if only we knew them...

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 02:06 AM

It’s claimed she was suffering from ‘The Twisties’ - a condition where a gymnast loses the ability to be aware of his/her position in the air when performing. I’m guessing it’s a psychological, as well as physical, condition. Beth Tweddle gave a good explanation on the BBC Olympics programme yesterday.

It’s up to the individual to decide whether they believe it, but it sounded fairly plausible when Beth described the condition.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 02:45 AM

Indeed it did sound very plausible. While i think the beam is the most dangerous of all the gymnastic disciplines, it was pointed out that all the moves are in a straight line, albeit a very narrow one.

I have always admired the tumbling ability of both the male and female gymnasts. So far i have resisted the temptation to replicate their moves while shopping in my local supermarket.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 03:19 AM

LOL! That conjures up a wonderful mental image, RD! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 04:55 AM

Temporary failure of nerve or loss of confidence can happen in any sport. The young British tennis player Emma Raducanu was sailing through Wimbledon, had the hopes of the nation suddenly piled on her shoulders, then, for the first time in the competition, she lost a set. Things weren't going well in the next set, she suddenly felt overwhelmed and she lost her nerve and withdrew. She was honest about what happened to her. I get that. She is very inexperienced at that level and she'll be back. Our young BMX rider Charlotte Worthington overcame a big crashout in her first run to come back in her second run and execute perfectly the almost impossible trick that had eluded her in the first run. No failure of nerve there.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 04:56 AM

So…..what?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 06:15 AM

So I'm talking about two inexperienced sportswomen who had expectations piled on them - one of them folded under the pressure and was dead straight about it all, the other, within minutes of a fall that could have ended her competition, showed real grit, got back on the saddle and won the gold. Biles is not inexperienced. She made a mistake in her first competition then became the big news as she butted out of one event after another, one at a time. I don't know what was going on in her head and I'm glad she managed something of a comeback, but I'm not convinced and I'd rather that sportspeople didn't resort to playing the mental health card too easily. When I looked up mental health on the NHS website I saw a list containing eating disorders, bipolar disorder, depression and PTSD. Real mental health issues that are not self-diagnosed. I see we have Ben Stokes at it now as well. A big part of elite sport is having self-doubt, injuries, occasional loss of form, screwing up every now and then and feeling the pressure of the public gaze. It all comes with the deal and I'd rather see the athletes fighting through it. Anyhow, I wish her well. I do understand that bullying, physical and sexual abuse are a big part of gymnastics and that they would contribute to athletes running into the rough. So I'm expressing doubts here, not rushing to judgement.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 07:02 AM

Pretty much what I thought you were getting at, just needed clarification. As an ex-sportsman (amateur local-league football until my early thirties, competition rowing until I was forty-one, local-league table-tennis and club-level squash until my mid-fifties) I’m very much aware that different people have different ways of dealing with set-backs, and my way certainly wasn’t necessarily the way of others.

I believe that those of us sitting comfortably in our armchairs with a drink of something nice in our hands, and who have never competed in sport at the highest level, are not well-qualified to judge the actions of those who do, and we should accept that they handle their set-backs in a way that’s appropriate and acceptable to them and their advisors.

In the case of a gymnast, for whom an attack of the condition described by Beth Tweddle, and from which Biles was said to be suffering, is not only psychologically debilitating but, if ignored, could result in serious physical injury - perhaps, in extreme circumstances, permanent disability or even death - it seems to make absolute sense to refrain from competition.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 07:43 AM

Ok, so let's talk about the twisties, or whatever, and not about "mental health." There's too much else going on in the world under that heading that is serious, long-term and demonstrably deleterious to a person's general well-being, not just to an athlete who suddenly gets the eebie-jeebies. Let's not devalue the term too easily by casually bandying it around, as seems to me to have been happening a fair bit lately.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 08:01 AM

OK, what action would you take if, as a gymnast, you found you had lost the ability to track your position and the physical attitude of your body in relation to the floor when performing high-speed aerial twists and rotations - e.g. during a vault, or during an acrobatic dismount from a piece of equipment, or during an acrobatic manœuvre in the floor-exercise?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 08:06 AM

So how do you think mental health problems begin?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 08:11 AM

Looks as though KJ-T might have to pull out of the Heptathlon due to injury. Very sad - saw her (and Nafi Thiam) close-up when we attended the World Championships in London in 2017, both came over to the barrier just in front of us and spoke to people in the crowd, maybe members of their support-team?

Watching KJ-T and Nafi running the track during their warm-up was the closest thing to poetry in motion I’ve ever seen. Beautiful!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 09:20 AM

The olympics has always made room for new popular events like snow boarding, skate boarding and cross country bowling. Perhaps olympic lieing, yarn spinning and telling whoppers could be included.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 09:40 AM

...or Olympic Preaching?

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 09:55 AM

”Post editing is a bit like time travel. You might edit something which somebody has already replied to, leaving the whole thing looking stupid.”

Yes, I can see that, with Mudcat being built on ‘old’ technology, that could be a problem. However, I post on several other forums where posts can be edited by their authors, and which are then annotated as having been edited. Clicking on the ‘edited’ link gives everyone access to the edit-chain, so that it can be followed in order to prevent exactly the situation you describe.

---

The typo was repaired. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 10:43 AM

”So how do you think mental health problems begin?

Only just seen your question RD, and I’m not sure who it’s aimed at. If me, I’m a retired accountant so I don’t regard myself as qualified to answer it. I do, however, have a very close relative who has suffered very badly from PTSD as a result of his service in the armed forces, and in the police forces in the UK and in Canada so, when someone claims to be suffering mental ill-health, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt until it’s categorically proved otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 01:30 PM

There was an excellent description of how this "twisties" problem can happen by Olympic figure skater Adam Rippon, who explained in detail the problems in some of these high-risk sports. I prefer to take his explanation than the above dismissal of her departure by suggesting that she was stepping away because she somehow muffed the first performance and was sulking.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1420452912690499586

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 03:02 PM

Well, she came back, and won a bronze. And I'd take the acceptance of her teammates and coaches of the opinions of random haters and know-it-alls. I understand "twisties" (although I quite likely have some misunderstanding). There are some diseases/conditions which bugger up the connection between the brain and the body. It's not inconceivable that mental/emotional factors might do the same.
I have nothing but respect for Biles.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 03:58 PM

I assume most of us have always had the twistys.
Double or triple twists and flips, let alone the skater quads, exceed the instinctual talents of the animal world.
Gymnastics is usually a kid's sport with a four year career after 10 years of practice. I do not wish or expect gladitorial sacrifice from them for anyone's entertainment.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 04:51 PM

Well I don't know who it was who accused her of sulking, I don't hate her (I wished her well, remember?) and my posts were full of doubts, so I'm not sure who these know-it-alls are (Piers Morgan, perhaps?). So it would be good if you could tell us who's accused her of sulking and who you refer to when you attack the hate-mongers and know-it-alls...

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 07:14 PM

Steve, you said She made a mistake in her first competition then became the big news as she butted out of one event after another, one at a time. I don't know what was going on in her head and I'm glad she managed something of a comeback, but I'm not convinced and I'd rather that sportspeople didn't resort to playing the mental health card too easily.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 07:39 PM

Steve.. I have watched several explanations by experts... and by Biles herself. That 'mistake' you refer to in the vault was her first indication there was a problem. She didn't know exactly why she couldn't control it, but after tests away from the competition, she found she could do forward and backward flips ok, but when she tried to 'twist' in the middle, her sense of location and timing was not there.... thus she landed WAY off in that vault. Because she does some of the most complex and difficult vaults and mat routines in the business, lack of control of the tiny details of location during twists in the air is flatly dangerous! Most of her skills WERE ranked high because they included twists. When she finally decided to do the beam, she did a simpler dismount than originally planned... thus lowering her possible score.

   She remarked that it was weird to find her 'wiring' didn't work right any longer.
   After the career she has had, it is not fair for ANYONE to suggest she just panicked or succumbed to pressure & fear...etc.
I watched a golfer once suffer from vertigo in the middle of the U.S. Open... and I have had it briefly myself. Something to do with the inner ear canals. Perhaps that was involved with Biles. *shrug*



   She

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Aug 21 - 08:36 PM

Well, Donuel, as that exchange between us was deleted, I suggest you shut up about it.

Maggie, it's fine to quote what I said, but in no way did I suggest that she was sulking, and your quoting of my post in no way demonstrated that. In fact, I didn't at all mean to suggest that she sulked, and I'm a bit miffed that you should persist in insinuating that I did. Again, please read my carefully-worded posts. I'm no Piers Morgan, whatever else you think.

Bill, the best footballers in the world occasionally have an absolute shocker. Own goals by the greats have been known to lose matches. The best cricket batsmen in the world get out for a duck or even a golden duck. In the 2005 Ashes series, one of the best fast bowlers in the world, Brett Lee, got slaughtered by Kevin Pietersen which meant that England won the Ashes. Many a great jockey has fallen at the first fence. Shocks, upsets and loss of form are routine in sport, and, in fact, for those of us who love watching sport, sport wouldn't be sport without them. I'm glad that Ms Biles managed the last contest and won a bronze. Sure, I'm no gymnast and I can't know what was in her head. But neither can you, Jeri, Maggie or Donuel. What I do know is that many an elite sportsperson has battled severe adversity and come back in triumph. That's sport for you, and that's part of what makes sport so memorable. She did make a mistake, for her, in her first competition, whether you like it or not. For all the world, that appeared to make her decide to butt out of one subsequent competition after another. Someone else, maybe, would, as it were, have immediately got back on her horse and taken on the world. It puzzles me somewhat to hear people saying of her that she is such an inspiration, etc. If she's an inspiration for claiming undiagnosed "mental health" issues, then I'm not with you.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 02:30 AM

Steve, you seem to have missed the question I posed directly to you yesterday at 08:01 AM Mudcat-time, so here it is again…

”OK, what action would you take if, as a gymnast, you found you had lost the ability to track your position and the physical attitude of your body in relation to the floor when performing high-speed aerial twists and rotations - e.g. during a vault, or during an acrobatic dismount from a piece of equipment, or during an acrobatic manœuvre in the floor-exercise?”

As your several posts compare Biles’ actions and reactions against those of other sportsmen and women in what can only be seen as a critical and judgemental manner, I feel it’s perfectly reasonable to ask how you would deal with the issues she’s had to handle should you find yourself suffering the same condition. Criticism is one thing - any fool can criticise anything - but constructive criticism is something entirely different. I look forward to your considered and, hopefully, enlightening response…

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 02:33 AM

Try again with HTML error corrected…

Steve, you seem to have missed the question I posed directly to you yesterday at 08:01 AM Mudcat-time, so here it is again…

”OK, what action would you take if, as a gymnast, you found you had lost the ability to track your position and the physical attitude of your body in relation to the floor when performing high-speed aerial twists and rotations - e.g. during a vault, or during an acrobatic dismount from a piece of equipment, or during an acrobatic manœuvre in the floor-exercise?”

As your several posts compare Biles’ actions and reactions against those of other sportsmen and women in what can only be seen as a critical and judgemental manner, I feel it’s perfectly reasonable to ask how you would deal with the issues she’s had to handle should you find yourself suffering the same condition. Criticism is one thing - any fool can criticise anything - but constructive criticism is something entirely different. I look forward to your considered and, hopefully, enlightening response…

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 04:25 AM

The best cricket batsmen in the world get out for a duck or even a golden duck

A bit of a diversion but: I know what "out for a duck" means; What is a "golden duck"?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 04:50 AM

It is a roast duck.

Golden duck is when the batsmen is out on the first ball that he receives.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 04:52 AM

Out first ball, Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 06:51 AM

'Out first ball' seems to sum it up nicely. I think I'll stick with that.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 07:21 AM

New Olympic sports should include Olympic lies that have overtaken the world. There are some gold medal winning Whoppers out there lately. The last couple centuries have exceeded the lies of the distant past that enabled people to send children to fight in the crusade wars. Today we have a pediatric Delta variant and are passing laws to prevent protection of children's health.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 07:42 AM

Bronze for Sky Brown (Skateboard) is worth more than Silver for Ben Whittaker. She appreciates her medal.

Well done Sky (age 13) I hope we see her again in 3 years' time.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 08:53 AM

Especially when you consider that Sky had an horrific skateboarding accident last year - she's in these Games only because they were delayed for a year. Another fine example of true grit shown in overcoming setbacks. All part of great competitive sport.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 09:12 AM

Useless info maybe but I've just been looking up cricket records on Wikipedia. A few names (all very good batsmen) I picked out were.

Adam Gilcrist and Virender Sehwag. They both achieved a king pair (out first ball in both innings) in test cricket.

Mark Waugh managed a pair (out both innings without scoring) in consecutive tests.

Of course the best batsman ever (Don Bradman) ended his test career with a duck but his retirement was planned.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 10:13 AM

Steve... sorry, but "made a mistake" is not necessarily the same thing as 'failed to execute as planned'.
And in her case, it would have been dangerous to "...have immediately got back on her horse" when she KNEW from years of experience that there was more to it than just 'losing concentration'.
She could not, even in practice away from competition, control those twists. She did try, and she hopes the issue will be resolved.

    That 'twisties' problem is well-known among gymnasts. It is more than just timing and concentration. If this works for you, watch her floor routine when it works perfectly. In a couple of those passes, she combines twists with flips in a way that no one else even attempts. To get lost in the air during one could be serious. Being 'slightly off' is not the same thing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 05:00 PM

I've given you several examples of athletes, competing in dangerous sports, who have not let serious mistakes and even accidents put them off. I'm not judging Ms Biles and I don't know anything about her mental state. I'm simply contrasting her decisions with those of others, and I'm not necessarily going along with the current narrative. No disrespect to her, no judging. Just saying that I'm not sure. I find it odd that a fair number of people here who are as non-gymnastic as me seem to possess so much certainty. Anyway, good luck to her.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 05:07 PM

I still remember the gymnast on rings that had a broken ankle and stuck his landing on one foot. I have too respect his gutsy attitude.
But there are different kinds of gutsy attitudes I could respect.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 06:26 PM

*shrug* Steve. I'm not 'certain' of anything from my own knowledge. I'm only reporting what gymnasts and experts..including Biles herself.. have said about it.

I, too, wish her good luck and recovery..whatever that entails.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 21 - 07:26 PM

"Gymnasts and experts" aren't necessarily qualified in psychology/psychiatry. Once again, I'm not doing a Piers Morgan here. I'm simply trying to look at how sports people in general confront their difficulties. The very best seem to fight back, and quickly. My five-year-old grandson came crashing off his new bike on my gravel yesterday at high speed. His howling raised the roof. Within minutes, his dad had him back on his bike and rode up our lane alongside him. No triumph, no tragedy, but the lad's as keen as mustard still to get on his bike, the accident forgotten. Are you absolutely sure that your gymnast didn't react the way she did to cover her embarrassment after the first event? Not saying she did, not saying she didn't, but I'm not sure.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 08:27 AM

Crikey Steve I felt it when I read that about your grandson, Ido hope he's OK! I did the same myself at the age of 13 on a then recently gravelled road, but for me it was A & E and stitches in my knee!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Neil D
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 08:49 AM

I initially had a similar reaction to Steve's when Simone first withdrew, but then I read about the twisties and I don't think people here realize how truly dangerous that condition can be. One gymnast said that if she hadn't been as well-trained as she is she could have easily suffered a career-ending injury on the awkward dismount that caused her to withdraw. Would any of us really expect an athlete to risk serious injury for Olympic glory.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 09:21 AM

If your grandson had been riding up a board to jump a small ditch, and doing it fine 14 times till he sprained his knee so he couldn't pedal efficiently and failed on the 15th try, I don't imagine anyone in the family would encourage him to try again until that knee was better.
As I understand it, (even though the situations are not exactly similar), that's what is going on with Biles. She's trying to find out whether her problem will gradually clear up.
   She HAS made mistakes before..in practice and in competition... and she always "covered her embarrassment" by being more careful next time as she hadn't noticed any lack of orientation in the air until that one event.
   The condition known as "twisties" is well known to others.... few of whom do tricks as dangerous as Biles.

I guess we'll see in a few months whether she is back on track.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 10:44 AM

The lad's fine, Bonzo. Little kids bounce quite well! Just a graze.

Good luck to her, Bill. I still have my doubts.

"Would any of us really expect an athlete to risk serious injury for Olympic glory."

Whilst we shouldn't expect it, the fact is that they do it in many sports, Olympic or not. The skateboard and BMX freestyle both looked extremely dangerous to me. Boxers take risks every time they take to the ring. Huge great big rugby players cheerfully crash into each other at great speed. Ski-jumping looks pretty dangerous to me. Heading a football has been demonstrated to significantly increase brain damage that shows up in later life. We've seen some very nasty cycling spills both on road and in velodrome. And so on.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 03:45 PM

You're still dismissing her judgement and experience for your home anecdotes, Steve. A five-year-old on a bike is not the same as an Olympic-class athlete making a decision regarding continuing with a routine or performance. Not. Even. Close.

That said, I'm glad the little guy is okay.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 04:06 PM

My dodgy view is that her experience should have told her to carry on. Most of the examples I've given of the athletes who have got straight back on their horses have been of young people who lacked her experience, and, I dare say, her cynicism. I'm simply asking you to consider the contrast. My home anecdote was just one of many examples I've given. I am unsure of her attitude but I'm glad to give her the benefit. But I rail against the putting-up of the mental health shield. It's very hard to argue against - and Ms Biles and her ilk know that all too well. That's all.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 06:18 PM

I watched artistic team swimming, rhythm gymnastics and speed / boulder climbing today. Its hard to look away.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Aug 21 - 10:25 PM

The Radical Courage of Simone Biles

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 04:19 AM

Can't see that without subscribing.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 04:21 AM

I’m not subscribed but I could see it. A very good piece.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 04:37 AM

Got it.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 05:12 AM

Sunday's papers showed Tom Daley knitting a purse for his Olympic medals:
Looks like you're gonna need a bigger bag

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 09:21 AM

Speaking of bigger bags, Daley's knitted jock straps and underwear offer air conditioning comfort extraordinaire. He's gonna be a millionaire.
Isreal beat the gymnast Russian increditwins!

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 07:25 PM

One of the most unforeseen and amazing stories was the women's marathon.
It was run in hot, humid weather and many presumed contenders dropped out or finished way back.
   As expected, a couple of Kenyans finished 1st & 2nd... but 3rd was a young woman from Wisconsin, Molly Seidel. 2 other Kenyans dropped out, and the only other American entries were also Kenyans by birth. The back story is that at 10 years old, Molly made a card for her school about her goal, saying her wish was to go to the Olympics and win a gold medal. Maybe next time.

read about it here

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Aug 21 - 07:29 PM

Yeah, in spite of my rundown of the IOC early on in this thread, I've found much to be inspired by.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 05:49 AM

Demonstrating how the wealthy have purchased the means to modify tax law, Katie Ledeki will owe $76,000 dollars in taxes for the medals she won which is considered income. Olympians earning over a million dollars a year will keep their medals tax free.
Depending upon corporate sponsorship taxes will differ for olympic medals.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 06:50 AM

You seem to have gotten the tax situation for U.S. medalists back-asswards.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 07:39 AM

Nonsense. The tax is NOT charged on the medals they won, it’s charged on the cash awarded by the US Olympic and Paralympic Committee to medal-winners - $37,500 for a Gold, $22,500 for a Silver, and $15,000 for a Bronze.

And the exemption is for those athletes earning LESS than $1 Million - you got that the wrong way round.

Subject: RE: BS: 2021 Olympics
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 21 - 08:40 AM

Aha I referred to the old law
Here is the 2016 Obama law to amend the previous law that grouped olympic medals in with lottery prizes.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/5946/text

things change for the better sometimes
thanks gillymor