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BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '

keberoxu 15 Aug 21 - 07:30 PM
keberoxu 15 Aug 21 - 07:35 PM
keberoxu 15 Aug 21 - 07:45 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Aug 21 - 08:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Aug 21 - 03:03 AM
punkfolkrocker 16 Aug 21 - 11:25 AM
The Sandman 16 Aug 21 - 12:32 PM
keberoxu 16 Aug 21 - 12:53 PM
keberoxu 16 Aug 21 - 09:12 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Aug 21 - 04:04 AM
keberoxu 19 Aug 21 - 10:42 AM
DaveRo 19 Aug 21 - 01:08 PM
keberoxu 19 Aug 21 - 08:46 PM
DaveRo 20 Aug 21 - 01:45 AM
Rain Dog 20 Aug 21 - 02:04 AM
DaveRo 20 Aug 21 - 03:18 AM
Rain Dog 20 Aug 21 - 03:37 AM

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Subject: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 07:30 PM

The Sun published a feature article with this title, which I found immediately by searching on "Ken Loach" and "NEC."

The title presumes that there are educated literate people
in The Sun's readers, who have never heard of Ken Loach.

I'm NOT a reader of The Sun, and even I have heard of Ken Loach, just because of his international reputation for his films.

...and why has he been expelled from the Labour Party?


Now, this ignorant and uncouth Yankee has to do some more searches
to find out who or what the "NEC" is ...


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 07:35 PM

. . . and if you don't want to know it from the Sun,
try the Times,
whose Gabriel Pogrund covered the story in a report
dated 14 August 2021, 6:00 PM BST.

But I cannot link to the full story,
maybe someone in the UK can though.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 07:45 PM

National Executive Committee. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Aug 21 - 08:44 PM

Ken Loach is a very fine socialist who has made some superb films (such as Kes and I, Daniel Blake) which explore the human condition of people who have been sidelined in society. He's a long-time Labour Party member, though he left for a time in protest against Blairism. He rejoined the party when Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader (which is when I and hundreds of thousands of others also joined). Recently, the current right-wing leader, Keir Starmer, expelled members of four left-wing groups in the party. Ken expressed his support for them, which is why he's been expelled. You yanks are hot on free speech, so I'll let you mull over that one. Starmer hasn't got a clue, and this stupid move is one more nail in the coffin regarding any chances of his winning the next election. It's very depressing.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 03:03 AM

Wot Steve said

It's also to do with British politics so expect this thread to be merged with the only thread allowed on that subject!


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 11:25 AM

Nah.. it's ok.. this tread was started by an American..

Mere rules don't apply to them..

USA got special privilege status......


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 12:32 PM

what has he done that justifies expulsion?


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 12:53 PM

The filmmaking art of Ken Loach is an intersection
of an artistic medium (not musical, admittedly) with social issues and all that are attached to these.

I am thinking of the generations of actors -- several generations, by this time -- who have been cast in roles, and have been featured, in the films of Ken Loach. Close to if not in fact twenty feature films.

Actors like Peter Mullan, Gary Lewis, Ray Winstone, Terence Stamp, Carol White, Ricky Tomlinson, Brian Cox, Brad Dourif, Robert Carlyle ...

and I was unaware that Frances McDormand, who with two Oscars has really come into her own,
was in a Loach film in 1990!

My point is that art, as well as "UK politics", is in play here.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: keberoxu
Date: 16 Aug 21 - 09:12 PM

Dick/Sandman,
the answer to your question is confused
when the parties involved are asked it.

There was a statement from Labour's NEC that
they would not discuss the expulsion of individuals,
only the expulsion of organisations and groups, thank you.

Ken Loach used his Twitter account
to post a series of Tweets saying that
Labour has expelled him,
and using the words "witch hunt"
which may reference one of those expelled organisations.

Until Labour sticks its neck out far enough
to risk a statement about this famous individual,
that's what we have to go on.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 21 - 04:04 AM

I suspect if I were to start a thread on the rising price of fish, it would soon end up in the UK politics thread!


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Aug 21 - 10:42 AM

As a mature adult, learning years ago about
Ken Loach and his career as a filmmaker,
I suddenly recalled the first time that his work had turned up
in the mass media news in my life.
I had no recollection, at the time, of Ken Loach's name.

But I realized that when "Poor Cow" was released,
it made the news -- even here in the United States,
and in the syndicated columns in the newspapers that
were delivered every day to households like that of my deeply conservative and reactionary family.

Why was "Poor Cow" talked about?
Because of the scene where the woman gives birth --
the graphic depiction of the woman in labor.
Far from the first time I should think,
but this was the 1960's and it made news,
albeit not headlines.

Goodness, I was not even at puberty at that point, I was so young.
But I never forgot that --
and even though I paid no attention to the name "Ken Loach,"
I remembered the name "Carol White", the actress,
from that day to this.

I guess sometimes you have to stir up some notoriety
in order to get attention for your art and your work.
But then again, it is doubtful that
Ken Loach filmed a woman giving birth that way
with an eye towards notoriety,
rather he was being factual and realistic. I don't know.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: DaveRo
Date: 19 Aug 21 - 01:08 PM

keberoxu wrote: I remembered the name "Carol White", the actress,
from that day to this.
I've always remembered Carol White too, playing the the main character in the TV Wednesday Play 'Cathy Come Home', about homelessness; probably the most influential drama ever on British Television.

Directed by Ken Loach.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Aug 21 - 08:46 PM

Talking of British Television drama,
I have heard that argument advanced for
'The Naked Civil Servant', but of course
that came later than 'Cathy Come Home'

and Ken Loach didn't direct the former anyhow.

Just looked up Carol White
and was shocked to discover how young she was
when she died.

It has to be tough for anybody in Ken Loach's position,
living so long and working with so many,
when his peers predecease him:
Carol White was nearly his age, a bit younger.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 01:45 AM

'The Naked Civil Servant' may have been made for TV, but it was made by Thames TV, and only shown, I suspect, in London. Living in Birmingham I wouldn't have been able to watch it - even if I had a TV. If it caused any controversy at the time I was unaware of it.

I remember the fuss about Brimstone and Treacle, which was pulled by the BBC.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: Rain Dog
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 02:04 AM

I have the feeling that The Naked Civil Servant was shown on national ITV at the time. I do remember seeing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 03:18 AM

You're probably right. It was made by Thames-owned Euston Films, who seem to have sold productions to other ITV networks.

ITV regions were complicated and changeable. Granada had some risky stuff, according to my Lancashire-born wife. ATV in the Midlands was pretty bland. When I moved to Hertfordshire in the 80s I was able to get, with a big aerial, London Weekend Television, which had better programmes than the 'local' ITV, which seemed to be mainly aimed at Norfolk folk.

So I could watch The South Bank Show: dum-didle-iddle-iddle-um-pom-pom...


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Subject: RE: BS: 'Who is Ken Loach and why has he been '
From: Rain Dog
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 03:37 AM

Our local region at the time was Southern Television [1958-1981). We were always wary of those northern franchises like Thames and LWT.

Looking on wikipedia i was reminded of the following;

"In its last three years on the air Southern showed many foreign-language films in its Friday Late, Late Show, including as many as eight by Rainer Werner Fassbinder and others by Werner Herzog, Andrzej Wajda, Wim Wenders, Federico Fellini and many more. These were particularly valuable in the more rural parts of its region where these films were rarely shown in cinemas and home video barely existed."

Foreign language films on mainstream tv. Different times.

They did also make Worzel Gummidge.


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