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Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s

GUEST,LM-Harbor 28 Oct 21 - 02:07 PM
GUEST,PyschedUpStolas 25 Oct 21 - 10:42 PM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 08 Oct 21 - 06:54 PM
punkfolkrocker 07 Oct 21 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Nick Dow 07 Oct 21 - 01:42 PM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 07 Oct 21 - 12:52 PM
GUEST 28 Sep 21 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Gallus Moll 09 Sep 21 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,PyschedUpStolas 07 Sep 21 - 04:26 PM
Helen 22 Aug 21 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 22 Aug 21 - 08:50 AM
GUEST,PyschedOutStolas 22 Aug 21 - 01:02 AM
GUEST 21 Aug 21 - 04:05 PM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 21 Aug 21 - 03:37 PM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 21 Aug 21 - 03:35 PM
Helen 21 Aug 21 - 03:01 PM
GUEST,PyshcedOutStolas 21 Aug 21 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 21 Aug 21 - 11:40 AM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 21 Aug 21 - 11:28 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Aug 21 - 11:26 AM
GUEST,PyschedUpStolas 21 Aug 21 - 11:08 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Aug 21 - 10:55 AM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 21 Aug 21 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,# 21 Aug 21 - 10:27 AM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 21 Aug 21 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,# 21 Aug 21 - 10:20 AM
GUEST 21 Aug 21 - 10:07 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Aug 21 - 10:05 AM
GUEST,# 21 Aug 21 - 10:05 AM
GUEST 21 Aug 21 - 10:01 AM
GUEST,# 21 Aug 21 - 09:50 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Aug 21 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,PyshcedOutStolas 21 Aug 21 - 07:35 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Aug 21 - 06:38 AM
punkfolkrocker 21 Aug 21 - 06:28 AM
GUEST 21 Aug 21 - 01:15 AM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 21 Aug 21 - 12:59 AM
GUEST,# 21 Aug 21 - 12:24 AM
GUEST,# 21 Aug 21 - 12:15 AM
Helen 20 Aug 21 - 10:36 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Aug 21 - 10:27 PM
Stilly River Sage 20 Aug 21 - 10:22 PM
punkfolkrocker 20 Aug 21 - 10:18 PM
GUEST,PyshcedOutStolas 20 Aug 21 - 08:22 PM
Helen 20 Aug 21 - 08:12 PM
GUEST,# 20 Aug 21 - 07:13 PM
Helen 20 Aug 21 - 06:42 PM
Helen 20 Aug 21 - 05:59 PM
GUEST,# 20 Aug 21 - 05:37 PM
GUEST,LM-Harbor 20 Aug 21 - 05:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 02:07 PM

Any updates on this?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,PyschedUpStolas
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 10:42 PM

One of the things that bothers me the most is I can't place an accent to it. It's no Watersons nor Copper Family, and I think at times it sounds distinctly American, but it may not be. I also tend to think the British band Writing on the Wall sounds American. It reminds me both of West Coast American folk ala CSNY and of English folk


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 08 Oct 21 - 06:54 PM

Thanks. Wouldn't hurt to try reaching out to them, I guess.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 01:45 PM

Is UK magazine "Record Collector" still going...???

Seems the sort of thing they'd be interested in investigating...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 01:42 PM

Sounds like the band 'It's a beautiful Day'. (White Bird)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 07 Oct 21 - 12:52 PM

@Guest, Gallus Moll

We've contacted "Whispering" Bob Harris about a week ago. He never got back to us, even though he's fairly active on social media. I don't want to continue bothering him, so is there any other person you think could also be a potential lead?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 21 - 03:51 PM

Anything new?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,Gallus Moll
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 04:48 AM

Apologies if this has been suggested already, but 'Whispering' Bob Harris is exactly the radio DJ to have played this song, know the background? I remember hearing Strawbs and other alternative bands of that era on his late night show back in the '70s.
I think he has a facebook page? (after a quick look on google)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,PyschedUpStolas
Date: 07 Sep 21 - 04:26 PM

Any contacts from the folk club era we could find on mudcat? How about the freak scene?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Helen
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 03:54 PM

Tommy Shaw's website


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 08:50 AM

"The Vagabonds" likely ruled out. Got a reply from the contributor of the page.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,PyschedOutStolas
Date: 22 Aug 21 - 01:02 AM

@Helen @Guest
Fantastic work with a new lead and then working to rule it out... I know Chicago also had quite a few folk clubs. I'm sure there are some folks on mudcat who were involved. It is my hope eventually someone will show up.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 04:05 PM

Actually, I don't think it is "The Vagabonds". It features a saxophone in it + the band formed when Tommy Shaw was only 14 years of age.

https://eu.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/2021/08/05/styxs-tommy-shaw-has-heart-full-music-and-montgomery/8071428002/

http://tommyshaw.net/wp/index.php/biography/


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 03:37 PM

I've contacted the contributor along with one of the members who do have it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 03:35 PM

Helen,

Could this be it? A garage pop band, featuring a very young Tommy Shaw. They only released one single. Track B is called "Coming Home".

I cannot find any audio of the single on the Internet, so we will, unfortunately, have to resort to contacting those who do have it, which may or may not always work.

https://www.discogs.com/artist/5684340-The-Vagabonds-14


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Helen
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 03:01 PM

On the reddit page which Guest linked to on 21 Aug 21 - 01:15 AM, one of the people mentioned was Tommy Shaw who was in the band Styx. I listened to Boat on the River (BOTR) which was released in 1979 and TS wrote the song and also was the vocalist.

The singer's voice and the musical style and arrangement seem to have similarities to the mystery song, although the most prominent instrument in BOTR is the mandolin and not guitar and piano. The lyrics are simple and uncomplicated, very much like the lyrics of the mystery song. I would say the same of the base melodies of each song. It's the arrangements and style which makes both songs more interesting, IMHO.

Styx were from Chicago. Tommy Shaw joined the band in 1976.

The song BOTR was a bit more laid-back than some of their other songs. I never bought any of their albums, but that song always stops me in my tracks whenever I hear it.

My theory is, that *if* the mystery song was written and performed by Tommy Shaw then it has a high probability that it was a demo tape created by him in the early to mid '70's before he joined Styx which would explain why it is not showing up on searches for tracks on albums.

According to Wiki he is still alive and kicking. Can anyone contact him and ask him?


Also, thanks LM-Harbor for the list of other songs on the cassette.

And I think that the cover version doesn't help, IMHO, in trying to identify the original version because I am sticking to my earlier assertion that the vocal and musical qualities and style of the track is more useful for pinning down the identity of the performer/s.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,PyshcedOutStolas
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 12:37 PM

@PFR
I'd love to find the source of this. The idea that an acid folk band with a song like this exists and I haven't heard is exciting.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 11:40 AM

There is also that one instrumental track which was later identified on WatZatSong.com as "Sneaky Pete Kleinow - Spittin’ Image"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 11:28 AM

These are some of the tracks which the OP asked for help in identifying. The names on the left (before the colon) are the unofficial titles we've given to these tracks before they got solved. We have the recording for each song, but I don't know where to upload them.

First Stone in a Pyramid: Gabriel Bondage - First Stone in a Pyramid
Won't Matter in a Hundred Years: Gabriel Bondage - You And The Wind
Bird of Paradise: Free Hot Lunch - Bird of Paradise
Fly Away: Henry Gross - Fly Away
State of our Union: Mariah - Reunion
Leavin' Idaho: Allen Dobb - Leavin' Idaho
Wide Eyed: Allen Dobb - Watkin's Man
Ladies & Gentlemen: Gabriel Bondage - Ladies And Gentlemen
Under Your Wings: Rare Bird - Bird On a Wing
Open Spaces: Xit - Beginning / At Peace
The Fishes: Unsolved


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 11:26 AM

.. at least it survived...

..unlike too many vintage recordings and movies carelessly lost through incompetent storage, or deliberately destroyed...

Btw.. I'm particularly keen on newly discovered 'lost' album releases...

eg.. I'm very happy the Rare Bird Live concert has finally arrived on official CD...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,PyschedUpStolas
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 11:08 AM

Demo, Private Press, Tax Scam... all we know for sure is it's remarkably obscure and was played in Chicago. I went through Illinois private press lists on discogs and didn't find it. I went through the acid archives and did not as well.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:55 AM

I've not listened too forensically on my small laptop speakers..

.. If this track was taped off a radio broadcast,
could there be a possibility it was a special session recording for the radio station,
and not a track supplied on disc or tape by a record lable...???


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:35 AM

No worries. It's fine. Yeah, it is an excellent cover of the song, but ultimately, it is just that: a modern cover. Although, as I mentioned before, there is a chance that we are missing the intro to the song, as I think it is unlikely the song would start with such abrupt singing.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:27 AM

Looks like it's my screw-up. Sorry about that.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:22 AM

LM-Harbor


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:20 AM

@ GUEST Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:07 AM

Who are you?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:07 AM

GUEST,#

I'm a bit confused. Why are you taking someone's cover of the song into account? That's not the sped-up version of our mystery song. That's someone's cover of the song with an extended INTRO as a bonus.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:05 AM

By the 3.30 track,
are you talking about the recently recorded tribute rerecording..

The longer track is a very good new cover version...


On a similar note, I've found an unidentified performance on one of my sister's old knackered audio cassettes from the 80s..

It sounds like a local children's piano grade competition..

There's a weird eerie sounding part
which I'm definitely going to sample into a loop...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:05 AM

The one at

Date: 21 Aug 21 - 12:15 AM


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 10:01 AM

GUEST,#

What 3:30 version?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 09:50 AM

Something just doesn't add up. Listen to both the 3:00 take and the 3:30 take. If one is a sped-up version of the other, then how can they both be in the same key? For example, play any 45 rpm at 45 rpm speed, then play the same 45 at 78 rpm. The key will be higher in the second one. So why doesn't that hold true in this case?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 09:30 AM

fair enough..

obviously, anyone new to this 'detective' case needs to eliminate other lines of enquiry...

One band I immediately considered was Dando Shaft,
but as far as I recall their discog is completey known;
and anyway it doen't really sound much like them...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,PyshcedOutStolas
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 07:35 AM

@PFR
This song was om a tape with several other obscure rock songs which were identified. The age of this recording definitely stretches to the 70s.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 06:38 AM

Like digital photo filters to make new images look antique sepia and tattered.
Amateur musician home recordists can apply audio filters making new recordings sound vintage...

.. just saying...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 06:28 AM

Have folks definitely discounted it being a spoof / homage track recorded in recent years,
in a very retro style..???

That way it could easily be unknown to any databases...

Such things are not that uncommon these days,
When any of us can make very professional sounding recordings
on inexpensive equipment in the comfort and anonymity
of our own homes...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 01:15 AM

Reddit.com seems to be quite intrigued by this mystery as well. Here is a thread covering the search for the song on the r/TipOfMyTongue board - a place for people to help ID television shows, movies, songs, etc.

https://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmytongue/comments/oyrxas/tomtsong_please_help_me_solve_this_little/


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 12:59 AM

GUEST,#

A few things to note -
I would not rely on 3:05 being the actual length of the song. For one, we are missing the INTRO to the track. Notice how abruptly and somewhat "aggressively" the singing starts? I think we are missing a maximum of 10-15 seconds of the song in the beginning.

The link you have provided, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D7xJhhhtow, is a song's cover by a loyal community member.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 12:24 AM

PS Note that the one we've been listening to is 3:00 minutes long. When it's slowed down and then lasts about 3:30, it definitely changes the search parameters, because we're now looking for a duet from probably the UK. If some of the Brits get on this, perhaps either they'll know the singers or maybe where they're from based on their accents. ??


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Aug 21 - 12:15 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D7xJhhht

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_D7xJhhhtow


I think that what we've been hearing is a sped-up version of what may be the original take. Have a listen. Then, if possible, run that though the voice recognition thingy and see if that gives any results. I'm hoping the key to cracking this thing is there.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Helen
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 10:36 PM

My Hubby tried the song on Spotify. No luck. A bit too obscure, I think.

A No-Hit Wonder band perhaps?

pfr, you missed your calling.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 10:27 PM

It sounds like Helen has an ear that is going to help solve this, if anything will.

any way to search the human voice within recordings? (I didn't clip the whole thing, because I'm a retired writer/marketer/web content editor from a library. Not a librarian, though I did a lot of that work before I finished. Go figure.)

I think the FBI might have software to do that; the rest of us have to search a bit harder.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 10:22 PM

I provided enough information so if any of you think that book that was mentioned earlier would be helpful, you can get your hands on a library copy. It sounds like it might be useful to take a look at (on something so scarce and expensive in the used-book market, I have been known to scan a personal PDF copy before returning the book to the library. It's over 500 pages, so pace yourself.)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 10:18 PM

Hardcore collectors are still discovering one-off acetates and tape recordings
from long gone 1960s / 70s publishing companies..

Many are anonymous discs with scant details handwritten or rubber stamped on the lables..

There's big money to be made on ebay if they can be linked to celebrity names
who were pre-'fame' young jobbing session players / singers to earn extra money...

There was a pool of fairly well known musicians who had a side line income
churning out genre music for film and TV media library companies..

"Right then lads, you are booked in the studio for half an hour this afternoon to record a 3 minute folk sounding track,
like that rubbish those hairy smelly students like to listen to.
Just don't make it to close to a record we can get sued for.
You can make up the words and music in the pub this lunchtime.
We're certain we can flog the track to a new pagan sex horror comedy
in production in the west country...
"

... something like that...

This is the stuff us music obsessives drool over...


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,PyshcedOutStolas
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 08:22 PM

@Helen
Don't Yes and Strawbs share members? I assumed it's neither though because it would have been dug up by now (it reminds quite a bit of something off of Witchwood). It may have originated from a prog band though. Some prog songs could easily be tagged folk if heard out of context. It also reminds me quite a bit of a demo of Fresh Maggots I have about.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Helen
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 08:12 PM

You can limit the search to the early '70's and before.

I don't necessarily think that it is a Yes song. It just reminds me of their style. If Yes does happen to be the correct group it would be before they went to the all-out, OTT (over the top), full-on production numbers.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 07:13 PM

Super, Helen. In the event there is a Yes connection, the following link goes to 200 of their songs. I checked only a few and lyrics were posted where one clicks the titles that show.

https://www.azlyrics.com/y/yes.html


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Helen
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 06:42 PM

The mystery song, from about 1:12 on the track as suggested above, goes into some interesting and clever musical bits.

I keep thinking of the band Yes, with the keyboard and the style of their music and the excellent guitar work and the harmonies used by the singers. I haven't heard any of the Yes albums for decades but they were impressively clever musicians. Although, their lyrics were a bit more in-depth than the mystery song's lyrics.

I just asked Hubby to listen to the song because he knows a lot of music and bands. Also he said the app Spotify on a mobile phone can do tune recognition. You can hold your phone close to the tune being played and it recognises similar tunes. That would rely on the tune being well enough known to be in the main tune databases of course.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: Helen
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 05:59 PM

LM-Harbor, have you thought of joining Mudcat? It's a great musical community and we love musical puzzles to solve. Joining is free. You can check it out on the Membership link, just under the Mudcat logo at the top of each page.

Just looking at the lyrics again.

"tavern keeper" sounds like a UK term too


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 05:37 PM

I think the words will not be how we find the song. That's been done by many others for about 4 or 5 months now.

SRS and Helen: Do either of you librarians have any way to search the human voice within recordings? Specifically, I'm wondering about the voices starting at 1:12 of the link in the OP.

Also, though likely unrelated, the word crash as a euphemism for sleep was in common usage in NYC in 1964/5. Also, "I can earn my keep for meal and a bed" is a strange way to phrase it, making me suspect that the singer isn't also the writer. However, I've been wrong before. ;-)


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Subject: RE: Origins: Mystery Song Recording, Sixties or 70s
From: GUEST,LM-Harbor
Date: 20 Aug 21 - 05:19 PM

Oh my, I thought it would start assigning my name automatically after a few comments , haha. My mistake.


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