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BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11

Donuel 08 Sep 21 - 09:26 AM
Dave the Gnome 08 Sep 21 - 01:42 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 21 - 01:53 PM
Jeri 08 Sep 21 - 03:20 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Sep 21 - 03:31 PM
Malcolm Storey 08 Sep 21 - 07:07 PM
Stilly River Sage 08 Sep 21 - 10:20 PM
Sandra in Sydney 08 Sep 21 - 10:28 PM
Sandra in Sydney 09 Sep 21 - 07:53 PM
Donuel 10 Sep 21 - 08:33 AM
Donuel 10 Sep 21 - 10:08 AM
Donuel 10 Sep 21 - 10:39 AM
Stilly River Sage 10 Sep 21 - 10:55 PM
Steve Shaw 11 Sep 21 - 05:47 AM
Bonzo3legs 11 Sep 21 - 06:21 AM
Jeri 11 Sep 21 - 09:51 AM
Jeri 11 Sep 21 - 10:43 AM
Charmion 11 Sep 21 - 10:59 AM
Stilly River Sage 11 Sep 21 - 11:38 AM
Tattie Bogle 11 Sep 21 - 12:58 PM
Neil D 11 Sep 21 - 01:10 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Sep 21 - 01:20 PM
BobL 12 Sep 21 - 08:46 AM
Donuel 13 Sep 21 - 09:26 AM
Jeri 13 Sep 21 - 09:51 AM
Donuel 13 Sep 21 - 03:40 PM
Mr Red 14 Sep 21 - 02:57 AM
Senoufou 14 Sep 21 - 04:22 AM
Mrrzy 16 Sep 21 - 01:05 PM
Charmion 16 Sep 21 - 02:12 PM
Jeri 16 Sep 21 - 03:26 PM
Donuel 17 Sep 21 - 05:43 PM

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Subject: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 09:26 AM

With all the retrospectives I have learned many new things.
One is that half a million people were evacuated by boats and ferries at the south tip of Manhattan where the railings are built to prevent people from reaching the water. Thats more than soldiers evacuated from Dunkirk but for a much shorter trip to NJ.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 01:42 PM

I was working a night shift upgrading some computers at a company in Leeds. It was hell of a way to pass time as the new software unrolled!


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 01:53 PM

I was picking up my daughter from the care home she worked in. I hadn't had the telly or radio on, and I couldn't believe what she was telling me on the way home.

I remember the Last Night of the Proms from that same week. All the jingoistic tomfoolery was ditched, and the orchestra played, among other things, Samuel Barber's Adagio for Strings. This year, the Last Night just happens to be on September 11. The Barber Adagio will be played again. I like that. I like Barber too. One of your finest.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 03:20 PM

I was sitting at home, and got on the computer - to Mudcat.
Catspaw wrote "Anybody else watching this? Sinsull....Where are you? This is simply an unbelievable disaster and not much is known yet. Suspicion that it was hit by a plane and now there is a second picture....LIVE...of a second plane actually hitting the OTHER tower.......Terrorists?
Simply unreal..........

Spaw
"

It was 1 Sep 01 at 9:06 AM.

I turned on the TV, and that's what I did all day, aside from occasional posting here.
They've been showing retrospectives of this already. There's one thing they never show, but I remember seeing live: The people jumping out of the building. The fall wasn't as frightening as burning alive. I don't forget any of it, but those jumpers are particularly horrific.

I only knew one person who died, that I know of, anyway, and I only met him once.

I remember thinking at the time that that even had changed the world.

The link above is to the first 9/11 thread, but in that, there are links to other ones.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 03:31 PM

We have our own 9-11 hero here in Cornwall, Cornishman Rick Rescorla, who was head of security at Morgan Stanley in the South Tower. He reputedly directed many people coolly to safety, with no regard for his own safety, before dying in the collapse of the tower.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 07:07 PM

Being a Tuesday I had been busy during the day and dropped in to see my son before heading off to play cricket.
My son had been catching up with some paperwork and had switched on the TV to check on cricket scores and of course the cricket had been forgotten.
The terrible events were there before us and although I did play cricket that evening that's not what sticks in my mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 10:20 PM

I was returning home from dropping the kids at school, and had detoured to the ATM before heading back to the apartment I was in apres-divorce. The radio (NPR) talked about a plane hitting the World Trade Center and I thought of the small plane that hit the Empire State Building fifty-some years earlier. But no. I walked into the apartment, turned on the TV, and I think I stood transfixed for at least an hour. At some point I put a tape in the VHS recorder and I still have that here, though I haven't watched it.

The video I plan to share on September 11 is this one: Boatlift - An Untold Tale of 9/11 Resilience narrated by Tom Hanks. It is a look at one group of heroes on that day.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 08 Sep 21 - 10:28 PM

it was late night here & I was getting ready for bed & just sat on my bathroom stool for about an hour listening to our news coverage & talkback.

One caller an American Australian, rang his brother who worked in Tower 2. Brother was not at work that day & he was talking to a workmate just as the 2nd plane struck.

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 09 Sep 21 - 07:53 PM

Radio station just re-played the call from the American man, Robert - last thing he heard was a thud & his brother's colleague saying "Did you just hear that?" as the line went dead. He also spoke to his brother.
The journalist who was on air that evening recalled his night. He worked 11 hours, 3 hours preparation & his normal 4 hour shift + another 4 hours, 8 hours on air across Australia, then the breakfast announcer who was also on air that morning relived her experiences, as did the journalist who still does the early morning news.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 08:33 AM

I suppose people assume that how that day effected them is the focus but it could be anything. I recall it was the day my dad died but I did not know it for 2 weeks. On the internet side I told acquaintances who lived mere blocks from the towers to GET OUT NOW and I was roundly critisized for scaremongering, some things don't change. We collected Robert from school and I noticed the extreme politeness of the traffic.
My wife cried over the event and I was not in touch with the magnitude of the day. It took about a month to come to grips with that day.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 10:08 AM

The many changes that event has created are with us 20 years later.
Some say everything changed. We took many actions and failed to do many other things. Some are obvious and some are not.
I will mention the light hearted changes like the movies and comic books. As you may know Superman was born during the WWII war years

Since 9-11 the explosion of superheros battling terrorists of all kinds is Superman to the 10th power.
The TV media has its share of 911 inspired shows, but how 9-11 CHANGED EVERYTHING
IS HERE


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 10:39 AM

There were about 3,000 deaths but in a different perspective there are 4.55 million deaths from Covid. Global covid deaths
and counting...


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Sep 21 - 10:55 PM

A lot of people may have not been reported: Families Of Undocumented Immigrants Lost On 9/11 Continue To Search For Closure

For years, the people at Tepeyac and other families have been trying to prove the immigrants who worked at the World Trade Center existed. That effort has proved to be extremely challenging.

How do you prove a person, who deliberately had tried to stay hidden from the system, was real without the proper documentation?

Garcia and the others could see a bureaucratic nightmare beginning to unfold and they got to work. Tepeyac started sending folks to look through missing people's homes, she says, to look through their personal belongings, "to see if they had a passport, a birth certificate, if they sent money with names [on the order]. And it was real difficult, because people weren't using their real identities."


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 05:47 AM

You might as well lament the numbers who die every winter month from complications of the common cold. They greatly exceed the 3000 who died on 11 September too. There is a massive difference between an accidental global pandemic and a deliberate, hostile and murderous attack on innocent civilians. Any attempt at a numerical comparison is specious.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 06:21 AM

It should never be forgotten. I was at work when it happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 09:51 AM

Don's just holding up the "stupid" faction, who otherwise, have no voice here.

The bagpipes marching from the NYC ceremony played "Hard Times".


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Jeri
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 10:43 AM

Sorry, Don. I wasn't calling YOU stupid, I just meant you were speaking for the stupid people. Who hasn't heard that crap before: so what if 30 people died from gun violence yesterday? 100 people starved to death.

This was an Event. It was an attack. It was a declaration of war by a collection of religious extremists. It changed how people in the world do things. It was random, and unpredictable, and we couldn't have done anything to prevent it, knowing what we knew. IMO.
We can prevent disease, and starvation, and gun violence, and other causes of death. We don't, but we could.

I was going to do laundry today, but I turned the TV on.

Duh.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 10:59 AM

The Canadian coverage is deferential, but muted.

A Canadian tennis player is doing well in the US Open, so that takes precedence over practically everything else, even COVID-19.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 11:38 AM

This is the video that I share with people about 9/11: Boatlift - An Untold Tale of 9/11 Resilience. It shows the best possible kind of reaction and the best of people working together. It doesn't happen often, but in this kind of situation, it's the only response that makes sense.

I didn't intend to turn on the TV, but Jeri's remarks about bagpipes had me switch on MSNBC to see what they're covering now. Condoleeza Rice saying that for a few minutes they were afraid that after the order to shoot down any aircraft that didn't respond correctly, they thought they might have shot down the plane that crashed in Shanksville. That's enough for me. It's one thing to look at the day, but it will quickly bleed into discussion of George W. Bush's inappropriate responses over the rest of his presidency. And how it took Biden 20 years later to bring it to a close.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 12:58 PM

I was on my way home at lunchtime on my half-day, but stopped off to do a house-call on the way. My patient grabbed me by the arm, and hauled me into her sitting room - "Just watch this" she said. Like many other people, the first images suggested an apocalyptic movie, rather than a news item. The first tower had already been hit. We sat there transfixed and saw the second tower hit as well. It was a while before I remembered what I was there for and checked her over. Eventually got home, 15 minutes away, and carried on watching there.
Recently I watched a TV programme called 102 minutes, which showed a lot of video footage from the actual day: just horrific.
I learned Tom Paxton's song, "The Bravest", and sang it on the 5th anniversary: tears in the audience for those lost.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Neil D
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 01:10 PM

Donuel, the first Superman comic was published in April, 1938, just prior to WWII.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Sep 21 - 01:20 PM

I was in my office, early afternoon on 11/9/2001, when my boss came in and told me he’d heard from his wife that TV news had reported that a ‘light aircraft’ had hit one of the towers. We hot-footed it down the corridor to the board-room, switched on the TV, and watched with our chins on our chests as it all unfolded. Absolutely horrific.

My favourite ‘9/11 song’ is this one, written by Mary Chapin Carpenter after listening, on the occasion of the first anniversary of the attack, to the testimonies of members of the ‘Bucket Brigade’, the first volunteers who dug in the ruins with shovels, even bare hands, searching vainly for survivors, and many of whom reported feeling the presence of spirits asking to be taken to Grand Central to catch the final train home…

‘Grand Central Station’ - Mary Chapin Carpenter

Watching proceedings at Ground Zero today, I feel the same horror and sadness that I felt this day twenty years ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: BobL
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 08:46 AM

From the aftermath of those dreadful events came the country dance and tune "Safe Haven" by Orly Krasner. Orly wrote: "Many of us turned to the English dance community for solace and comfort in the days after … the dance is intended as a celebration of our solidarity, and virtually all the figures are supported." Ashley Hutchings, working at the time on "Grandson of Morris On", commented "When we are shaken we wish to return to the womb. This is our womb and it feels good, and right."

I have chosen the dignified and hymn-like "Safe Haven" tune for my own funeral.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 09:26 AM

Jeri brings up a very important factor, stupid people, they were the ones marching up the tower stairs to save the 'smart' money changers and staff who were coming down. The firemen were servants and not all in it for themselves.
Stupid people can be decent honest people and not the white 1938 nationalist american militia.
My point is that stupid people aren't stupid, they are human. If they don't see the person next to them react to smoke or fire they are likely to ignore it too. Antivaxxers, american Taliban insurrectionists, alcohol abusers. can be stupid but they are not all stupid people.

The other factor Jeri brings up is that there are no stupid people here. I find that fanciful at best. We're all stupid about something.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 09:51 AM

Don, I was referring to your "whataboutism". People who refuse to get vaccinated are stupid. Firefighters are heroes. But misdirection (which is what I feel like that allusion to Covid vs 911 was) is a tactic of trolls, and thus ends my part in trollery.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 03:40 PM

Your trollery usually takes the form of putting your infected words in my mouth which I normally rinse out in silence. Events and facts speak for themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Mr Red
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 02:57 AM

That is why we went into Afghanistan. That's what I remember.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 04:22 AM

Like everyone, I was horrified from the very start of events. But my enduring, most horrifying memory is footage showing some blasted fundamentalist woman in some Muslim country ululating loudly in the street and handing round a huge flat plate of sweets, which were grabbed by people dancing for joy at the tragedy unfolding. They were all thrilled about the attack. Bastards.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Sep 21 - 01:05 PM

Why watch all that upsetting stuff, I was asked. Because the victims are *worth* it, I answered.

But I do wish they did, or had done, all this memorializing for daddy's bombing, and the susequent embassy bombings, too. Maybe then this much, nearly 2 decades later, attack would not have been such a surprise to the rest of the nation. We were not surprised. Shocked, horrified, appalled... But not surprised.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Charmion
Date: 16 Sep 21 - 02:12 PM

In my lonely log cabin on a low floor of National Defence Headquarters, I wasn’t surprised, either, Mrrzy. Not after your daddy’s bombing, or the marine barracks bombing, or the 1998 embassy bombings in Dar-es-Salaam and Nairobi, or the assault on the USS Cole. It was the logical next move.

And if the last 20 years are anything to go by, the campaign is going well and isn’t over.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Sep 21 - 03:26 PM

I watch the shows (sometimes) because I occasionally learn something new
The fireman who figured his brother, also a fireman, was probably dead, and then he just walked past.
The man who "surfed" the building down: Pasquale Buzelli.
Also, this was the 205h anniversary, so I felt a little responsible.

Judging by the sort of stuff I heard was prevented and never revealed to the public, I'm quite sure there have been a load of attacks that never happened.


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Subject: RE: BS: 20th anniversary of 9-11
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 21 - 05:43 PM

Tommorrow Trumpists will celebrate terrorism in Washington DC.
Domestic terrorism in this case, in support of the rioting heros who desecrated the capitol bld. and attempted kidnapping and lynching.
9-11 was international terrorism but Americans should not celebrate terrorism of any kind imo.


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Mudcat time: 20 September 10:41 PM EDT

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