Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes

Subject: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: David W
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 07:26 PM

a very popular scale these days but I was wondering if anyone knows any traditional tunes that use it?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 07:40 PM

Los Bibilicos (Ladino song). Theo Bikel's book
Miserlou (Mediterraen dance)
Greek Muaic
Spanish Flamenco and Gypsy music.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 21 - 07:55 PM

"The Phrygian Whistle", found at https://thesession.org/tunes/7741

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 12:16 PM

I think Miserlou might not be Phrygian Dominant as such because it has a raised 7th (eg if it were played in E it would have a D sharp). Well, at least the surf guitar version by Dick Dale does - I don't know if the original folk tune does.

Can't think of any Phrygian Dominant English or Irish tunes.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 03:18 PM

I don't recognize the terminology. Misirlou is in kurdilihijazkar, Los Bilbilicos is in hijaz. Only one note different in the scale but they have close to zero relationship in the traditions where they both occur.

What's the scale pattern of this "phrygian dominant" thingy?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: GUEST,Ra
Date: 13 Sep 21 - 04:43 PM

I was going to say 'Dust to Dust' written by John Kirkpatrick, but the internet tells me that it's actually in the Locrian mode...

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 03:30 AM

Jack -
This wikipedia page describes the scale, and assuming it's accurate, you'd perhaps prefer "freygish".

The page claims that "some versions" of "Hava Nagila" and "Miserlou" use the scale, for what it's worth.

I think some modern Western schools of musical theory tend to describe scales by reference to the Aeolian etc set of modes and then adding further qualifications, which is where "Phrygian Dominant" comes from.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 08:14 AM

That Wikipedia is utter garbage, one of the worst Berkleeist treatments of tradition I have ever seen. It is far beyond repair, just needs to be trashed.

Freygish is not the same as hijaz even in its basic scale pattern. Essentially none of the different modes mashed together by that jazzer fuckwit have anything to do with each other.

At any rate there is nothing in Anglophone tradition uses a mode whose associated scale pattern has a major third (or microtonally flattened one) and a minor second.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: David W
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 08:36 AM

Thanks for all the help.

The Phrygian Dominant is the 5th mode of the Harmonic Minor Scale. It's identical the Phrygian Mode of the Major Scale except it has a minor second instead of a major.

A lot of medieval Arab music used this scale, so was spread to Spain during medieval times, hence Hhspanic music historic and modern has a tradition of using this scale.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: GUEST,Mark
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 10:22 AM

Thanks Jack - don't hold back, and let us know what you think!

I'm insufficiently knowlegeable to be certain which was why I added the "assuming it's accurate"...

David, you seem confused. The standard Phrygian mode has a minor second. The difference here seems to be the presence of a major rather than minor third.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Sep 21 - 11:50 AM

Feldman's Music of the Ottoman Court goes into the history of the hijaz mode. The pitch of its third has slowly drifted up over the centuries, from nearly minor to nearly major: which can because in Middle Eastern theory it isn't a relative of anything else, it's a stacked pentachord mode.

Freygish is different because its lower seventh is sharpened by a semitone.

Kurdilihijazkar (the mode of Misirlou) hasn't changed in 3000 years as far as I know. The third has always been solidly major. But in Misirlou the sixth is usually flattened in descent - something that doesn't happen in bhairavi.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Phrygian Dominant Tunes
From: Jack Campin
Date: 15 Sep 21 - 10:47 AM

The way I hear The Phrygian Whistle on TheSession, it's actually Aeolian mode but sitting on the dominant a lot, with a Phrygian cadence stuck on the very end.