Subject: Lyr Add: AMERICAN PIE (Don McLean) From: Date: 14 Jan 00 - 01:26 AM For the record: ------------------------------------ AMERICAN PIE (Don McLean)
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Subject: RE: American Pie - Program Notes From: Date: 14 Jan 00 - 01:31 AM There is a more readable version of this message farther down.AMERICAN PIE--PROGRAM NOTES(Don McLean) The entire song is a tribute to Buddy Holly and a commentary on how rock and roll changed in the years since his death. McLean seems to be lamenting the lack of "danceable" music in rock and roll and (in part) attributing that lack to the absence of Buddy Holly et al.
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Subject: RE: American Pie From: john c Date: 14 Jan 00 - 02:27 AM Just want to say THANKS to whoever posted this for one of the most interesting postings Ive ever read on the ´cat.J. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Jan 00 - 03:32 AM Dick (or other DT historians): where did this treatise on "American Pie" come from? I gather it was developed from information posted in a newsgroup - rec.music.folk, perhaps? -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Ringer Date: 14 Jan 00 - 09:22 AM What about "Drove my Chevvy to the levy but the levy was dry"? You don't comment on that. Is it because its meaning is obvious to every American? (but it's not to this ignorant Brit) |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 14 Jan 00 - 09:31 AM Levee = an embankment raised to prevent a river from overflowing. These are quite common along larger rivers in the middle US, particularly the Mississippi River. In the South, they are common informal "party" sites for young people. They are often close to the road. Often you can drive over the embankment to the other side. Then the cars are hidden from those travelling on the road giving the party a little privacy. Roger in Baltimore |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Liz the Squeak Date: 14 Jan 00 - 11:09 AM Thanks, always wondered which bit was the levee, and how to spell it. Great thread, wish I had more paper so I could get a hard copy.... LTS |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: TheOldMole Date: 14 Jan 00 - 12:17 PM Don Cornell's song -- "Have faith love, and charity, that's the way to live successfully -- How do I know? The Bible tells me so" -- was written, I believe, by Dale Evans (Roy Rogers' wife). Not absolutely sure on this. "The levee was dry" -- a reference to a theme in many blues songs, having to do with luck being so bad you can't even commit suicide. Viz. Hank Williams: I went to the river, to watch the fish swim by I got the river, so lonesome I wanted to die But when I jumped in the river, the doggone river was dry |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Ringer Date: 14 Jan 00 - 01:26 PM I should have prefaced my earlier posting with "Thanks...Wow, I never realised!". So, thanks. And Wow, I never realised. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Victoria Date: 14 Jan 00 - 11:54 PM A friend and I were discussing this very subject only last week, and she was lamenting the fact that she could not remember many of the meanings behind the lyrics. Thanks for posting all of this!!! |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Ssorcha Date: 15 Jan 00 - 12:05 AM Is all this really going away tomrrow because of the banned crap? I really want to print it out and don't have enough ink. I LOVE this song, and must have connected subliminaly (SP?) to all the messages, but never knew it til now. At the time it came out I was dating a Canadian, and he tried to explain it to me, but I missed most of it. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: _gargoyle Date: 15 Jan 00 - 02:57 AM Ok .... I won't write the word, so I won't considered an........id------------jet!
1. Press down your mouse button and highlight the text......or "edit" then "select all"
Now when your get your allowance on the 15th or the 30th you can print the document with fresh ink or paper. Or you can ask KatLaughing to print it for you and mail you copy, she is into public service projects. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: voyager Date: 15 Jan 00 - 09:16 AM For Post-Doctoral Research on the themes of AMERICAN PIE please refer to BRENDAN'S AMERICAN PIE ARCHIVE at http://mmm.mbhs.edu/~bconnell/cty/american-pie.html If my memory servers me well....Don McLean (or a reasonable facsimile) performed AMERICAN PIE at the DC Millenium celebration on the stage of the LINCOLN MEMORIAL. voyager (aka Tim Weil) FSGW Ghetto East Silver Spring, Maryland |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Lanfranc Date: 15 Jan 00 - 07:38 PM I don't want to spoil the party, but have you heard? Madonna's going to record "a version of American Pie" !! Certainly the most informative thread I've hit to date. "Can analysis be worthwhile ...." P Simon |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: alison Date: 17 Jan 00 - 10:33 PM I've redone the 2nd post here with some html.. to see if it makes it easier to read..... I first saw this years ago... can't remember where..... slainte alison
AMERICAN PIE--PROGRAM NOTES The entire song is a tribute to Buddy Holly and a commentary on how rock and roll changed in the years since his death. McLean seems to be lamenting the lack of "danceable" music in rock and roll and (in part) attributing that lack to the absence of Buddy Holly et al. (Verse 1) A long, long time ago... "American Pie" reached number 1 in the US in 1972, but the album containing it was released in 1971. Buddy Holly died in 1959. I can still remember how One of early rock and roll's functions was to provide dance music for various social events. McLean recalls his desire to become a musician playing that sort of music. But February made me shiver, Buddy Holly died on February 3, 1959 in a plane crash in Iowa during a snowstorm. With every paper I'd deliver, Don McLean's only job besides being a full-time singer-songwriter was being a paperboy. Bad news on the doorstep... Holly's recent bride was pregnant when the crash took place; she had a miscarriage shortly afterward. But something touched me deep inside, The same plane crash that killed Buddy Holly also took the lives of Richie Valens ("La Bamba") and The Big Bopper ("Chantilly Lace") Since all three were so prominent at the time, February 3, 1959, became known as "The Day The Music Died". So... Don McLean dated a Miss America candidate during the pageant. (unconfirmed) Drove my Chevy to the levee but the levee was dry One of Holly's hits was "That'll be the Day"; the chorus contains the line "That'll be the day that I die". (Verse 2) "The Book of Love" by the Monotones; hit in 1958. And do you have faith in God above, In 1955, Don Cornell did a song entitled "The Bible Tells Me So". Rick Schubert pointed this out, and mentioned that he hadn't heard the song, so it was kinda difficult to tell if it was what McLean was referencing. Anyone know for sure? There's also an old Sunday School song which goes: "Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so" Now do you believe in rock 'n roll? The Lovin' Spoonful had a hit in 1965 with John Sebastian's "Do you Believe in Magic?". The song has the lines: "Do you believe in magic" and "It's like trying to tell a stranger 'bout rock and roll." Can music save your mortal soul? Dancing slow was an important part of early rock and roll dance events -- but declined in importance through the 60's as things like psychedelia and the 10-minute guitar solo gained prominence. Well I know you're in love with him Back then, dancing was an expression of love, and carried a connoctation of committment. Dance partners were not so readily exchanged as they would be later. You both kicked off your shoes A reference to the beloved "sock hop". (Street shoes tear up wooden basketball floors, so dancers had to take off their shoes.) Man, I dig those rhythm 'n' blues Some history. Before the popularity of rock and roll, music, like much else in the U. S., was highly segregated. The popular music of black performers for largely black audiences was called, first, "race music", later softened to rhythm and blues. In the early 50s, as they were exposed to it through radio personalities such as Allan Freed, white teenagers began listening, too. Starting around 1954, a number of songs from the rhythm and blues charts began appearing on the overall popular charts as well, but usually in cover versions by established white artists, (e. g. "Shake Rattle and Roll", Joe Turner, covered by Bill Haley; "Sh-Boom", the Chords, covered by the Crew-Cuts; "Sincerely", the Moonglows, covered by the Mc Guire Sisters; Tweedle Dee, LaVerne Baker, covered by Georgia Gibbs). By 1955, some of the rhythm and blues artists, like Fats Domino and Little Richard were able to get records on the overall pop charts. In 1956 Sun records added elements of country and western to produce the kind of rock and roll tradition that produced Buddy Holly. (Thanks to Barry Schlesinger for this historical note. ---Rsk) I was a lonely teenage broncin' buck "A White Sport Coat (And a Pink Carnation)", was a hit for Marty Robbins in 1957. The pickup truck has endured as a symbol of sexual independence and potency, especially in a Texas context. (Also, Jimmy Buffet does a song about "a white sport coat and a pink crustacean". ) But I knew that I was out of luck Refrain (Verse 3) Now for ten years we've been on our own McLean was writing this song in the late 60's, about ten years after the crash. And moss grows fat on a rolling stone It's unclear who the "rolling stone" is supposed to be. It could be Dylan, since "Like a Rolling Stone" (1965) was his first major hit; and since he was busy writing songs extolling the virtues of simple love, family and contentment while staying at home (he didn't tour from '66 to '74) and raking in the royalties. This was quite a change from the earlier, angrier Dylan. The "rolling stone" could also be Elvis, although I don't think he'd started to pork out by the late sixties. It could refer to rock and rollers in general, and the changes that had taken place in the business in the 60's, especially the huge amounts of cash some of them were beginning to make, and the relative stagnation that entered the music at the same time. Or, perhaps it's a reference to the stagnation in rock and roll. Or, finally, it could refer to the Rolling Stones themselves; a lot of musicians were angry at the Stones for "selling out". Howard Landman points out that John Foxx of Ultravox was sufficiently miffed to write a song titled "Life At Rainbow's End (For All The Tax Exiles On Main Street)". The Stones at one point became citizens of some other country merely to save taxes. But that's not how it used to be The jester is Bob Dylan, as will become clear later. There are several interpretations of king and queen: some think that Elvis Presley the king, which seems pretty obvious. The queen is said to be either Connie Francis or Little Richard. But see the next note. An alternate interpretation is that this refers to the Kennedys -- the king and queen of "Camelot" -- who were present at a Washington DC civil rights rally featuring Martin Luther King. (There's a recording of Dylan performing at this rally.) In a coat he borrowed from James Dean In the movie "Rebel Without a Cause", James Dean has a red windbreaker that holds symbolic meaning throughout the film (see note at end.) In one particularly intense scene, Dean lends his coat to a guy who is shot and killed; Dean's father arrives, sees the coat on the dead man, thinks it's Dean, and loses it. On the cover of "The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan", Dylan is wearing just such as red windbreaker, and is posed in a street scene similar to one shown in a well-known picture of James Dean. Bob Dylan played a command performance for the Queen of England. He was *not* properly attired, so perhaps this is a reference to his apparel. And a voice that came from you and me Bob Dylan's roots are in American folk music, with people like Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie. Folk music is by definition the music of the masses, hence the "...came from you and me". Oh, and while the King was looking down This could be a reference to Elvis's decline and Dylan's ascendance. (i.e. Presley is looking down from a height as Dylan takes his place.) The thorny crown might be a reference to the price of fame. Dylan has said that he wanted to be as famous as Elvis, one of his early idols. The courtroom was adjourned, This could be the trial of the Chicago Seven. And while Lennon read a book on Marx, Literally, John Lennon reading about Karl Marx; figuratively, the introduction of radical politics into the music of the Beatles. (Of course, he could be referring to Groucho Marx, but that doesn't seem quite consistent with McLean's overall tone. On the other hand, some of the wordplay in Lennon's lyrics and books is reminiscent of Groucho.) The "Marx-Lennon" wordplay has also been used by others, most notably the Firesign Theatre on the cover of their album "How Can You Be In Two Places At Once When You're Not Anywhere At All?". Also, a famous French witticism was "Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho."; "I'm a Marxist of the Groucho variety". The quartet practiced in the park There are two schools of thought about this; the obvious one is Beatles playing in Shea Stadium, but note that the previous line has John Lennon *doing something else at the same time*. This tends to support the theory that this is a reference to the Weavers, who were blacklisted during the McCarthy era. McLean had become friends with Lee Hays of the Weavers in the early 60's while performing in coffeehouses and clubs in upstate New York and New York City. He was also well-acquainted with Pete Seeger; in fact, McLean, Seeger, and others took a trip on the Hudson river singing anti-pollution songs at one point. Seeger's LP "God Bless the Grass" contains many of these songs. And we sang dirges in the dark A "dirge" is a funeral or mourning song, so perhaps this is meant literally...or, perhaps, this is a reference to some of the new "art rock" groups which played long pieces not meant for dancing. The day the music died. Refrain (Verse 4) Helter Skelter in a summer swelter "Helter Skelter" is a Beatles song which appears on the "white" album. Charles Manson, claiming to have been "inspired" by the song (through which he thought God and/or the devil were taking to him) led his followers in the Tate-LaBianca murders. Is "summer swelter" a reference to the "Summer of Love" or perhaps to the "long hot summer" of Watts? The birds flew off with the fallout shelter The Byrd's "Eight Miles High" was on their late 1966 release "Fifth Dimension". It was one of the first records to be widely banned because of supposedly drug-oriented lyrics. It landed foul on the grass One of the Byrds was busted for possesion of marijuana. The players tried for a forward pass Obviously a football metaphor, but about what? It could be the Rolling Stones, i.e. they were waiting for an opening which really didn't happen until the Beatles broke up. With the jester on the sidelines in a cast On July 29, 1966, Dylan crashed his Triumph 55 motorcycle while riding near his home in Woodstock, New York. He spent nine months in seclusion while recuperating from the accident. Now the halftime air was sweet perfume Drugs, man. Well, now, wait a minute; that's probably too obvious. It's possible that this line and the next few refer to the 1968 Democratic National Convention. The "sweet perfume" is probably tear gas. While sergeants played a marching tune Following from the thought above, the sergeants would be the Chicago Police and the Illinois National Guard, who marched the protestors out of the park and into jail. Alternatively, this could refer to the Beatles' "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band". Or, perhaps McLean refers to the Beatles' music in general as "marching" because it's not music for dancing. Or, finally, the "marching tune" could be the draft. We all got up to dance The Beatles' 1966 Candlestick Park concert only lasted 35 minutes. Or, following on from the previous comment, perhaps he meant that there wasn't any music to dance to. 'Cause the players tried to take the field, Following on from the Chicago reference above, this could be another comment on protests. If the players are the protestors at Kent State, and the marching band the Ohio National Guard. This could be a reference to the dominance of the Beatles on the rock and roll scene. For instance, the Beach Boys released "Pet Sounds" in 1966 -- an album which featured some of the same sort of studied and electronic experimentation as "Sgt. Pepper" (1967) -- but the album sold poorly. Some folks think this refers to either the 1968 Deomcratic Convention or Kent State. This might also be a comment about how the dominance of the Beatles in the rock world led to more "pop art" music, leading in turn to a dearth of traditional rock and roll. Or finally, this might be a comment which follows up on the earlier reference to the draft: the government/military-industrial-complex establishment refused to accede to the demands of the peace movement. Do you recall what was revealed, Refrain (Verse 5) And there we were all in one place Woodstock. A generation lost in space Some people think this is a reference to the US space program, which it might be; but that seems a bit too literal. Perhaps this is a reference to hippies, who were sometimes known as the "lost generation", partially because of their particularly acute alientation from their parents, and partially because of their presumed preoccupation with drugs. It could also be a reference to the awful TV show, "Lost in Space", whose title was sometimes used as a synonym for someone who was rather high...but I keep hoping that McLean had better taste. With no time left to start again The "lost generation" spent too much time being stoned, and had wasted their lives? Or, perhaps, their preference for psychedelia had pushed rock and roll so far from Holly's music that it couldn't be retrieved. So come on Jack be nimble Jack be quick Probably a reference to Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones; "Jumpin' Jack Flash" was released in May, 1968. Jack Flash sat on a candlestick The Stones' Candlestick park concert? (unconfirmed) 'Cause fire is the devil's only friend It's possible that this is a reference to the Grateful Dead's "Friend of the Devil". An alternative interpretation of the last four lines is that the may refer to Jack Kennedy and his quick decisions during the Cuban Missile Crisis; the candlesticks/fire refer to ICBMs and nuclear war. And as I watched him on the stage While playing a concert at the Altamont Speedway in 1968, the Stones appointed members of the Hell's Angels to work security (on the advice of the Grateful Dead). In the darkness near the front of the stage, a young man named Meredith Hunter was beaten and stabbed death -- by the Angels. Public outcry that the song "Sympathy for the Devil" had somehow incited the violence caused the Stones to drop the song from their show for the next six years. This incident is chronicled in the documentary film "Gimme Shelter". It's also possible that McLean views the Stones as being negatively inspired (remember, he had an extensive religious background) by virtue of "Sympathy for the Devil", "Their Satanic Majesties' Request" and so on. I find this a bit puzzling, since the early Stones recorded a lot of "roots" rock and roll, including Buddy Holly's "Not Fade Away". And as the flames climbed high into the night The most likely interpretation is that McLean is still talking about Altamont, and in particular Mick Jagger's prancing and posing while it was happening. The sacrifice is Meredith Hunter, and the bonfires around the area provide the flames. (It could be a reference to Jimi Hendrix burning his Stratocaster at the Monterey Pop Festival, but that was in 1967 and this verse is set in 1968.) I saw Satan laughing with delight If the above is correct, then Satan would be Jagger. The day the music died Refrain (Verse 6) I met a girl who sang the blues Janis Joplin. And I asked her for some happy news Janis died of an accidental heroin overdose on October 4, 1970. I went down to the sacred store There are two interpretations of this: The "sacred store" was Bill Graham's Fillmore West, one of the great rock and roll venues of all time. Alternatively, this refers to record stores, and their longtime (then discontinued) practice of allowing customers to preview records in the store. (What year did the Fillmore West close?) It could also refer to record stores as "sacred" because this is where one goes to get "saved". (See above lyric "Can music save your mortal soul?") But the man there said the music wouldn't play Perhaps he means that nobody is interested in hearing Buddy Holly et.al.'s music? Or, as above, the discontinuation of the in-store listening booths. And in the streets the children screamed "Flower children" being beaten by police and National Guard troops; in particular, perhaps, the People's Park riots in Berkeley in 1969 and 1970. The lovers cried and the poets dreamed The trend towards psychedelic music in the 60's? But not a word was spoken It could be that the broken bells are the dead musicians: neither can produce any more music. And the three men I admire most Holly, The Big Bopper, and Valens--or--Hank Williams, Presley and Holly-- or--JFK, Martin Luther King, and Bobby Kennedy-- or -- the Catholic aspects of the deity. McLean had attended several Catholic schools. They caught the last train for the coast Could be a reference to wacky California religions, or could just be a way of saying that they've left (or died -- western culture often uses "went west" as a synonym for dying). Or, perhaps this is a reference to the famous "God is Dead" headline in the New York Times. David Cromwell has suggested that this is an oblique reference to a line in Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale", but I'm not sure I buy that; for one thing, all of McLean's musical references are to much older "roots" rock and roll songs; and secondly, I think it's more likely that this line shows up in both songs simply because it's a common cultural metaphor. The day the music died This tends to support the conjecture that the "three men" were Holly/Bopper/Valens, since this says that they left on the day the music died. And they were singing... Refrain (2x)
Other notes:
"Killing Me Softly With His Song", Roberta Flack's Grammy Award-winning single of 1973, was written by Charles Gimble and Norman Fox about McLean.
The Big Bopper's real name was J.P. Richardson. He was a DJ for a Texas radio station who had one very big novelty hit, the very well known "Chantilly Lace".
There was a fourth person who was going to ride the plane. There was room for three, had the fourth person lost the toss -- or should I say won the toss. His name is Waylon Jennings...and to this day he refuses to talk about the crash. (Jennings was the bass player for Holly's band at the time. Some people say that Holly had chartered the plane for his band, but that Valens and/or Richardson was sick that night and asked to take the place of the band members.)
About the "coat he borrowed from James Dean": James Dean's red windbreaker is important throughout the film, not just at the end. When he put it on, it meant that it was time to face the world, time to do what he thought had to be done, and other melodramatic but thoroughly enjoyable stuff like that. The week after the movie came out, virtually every clothing store in the U.S. was sold out of red windbreakers. Remember that Dean's impact was similar to Dylan's: both were a symbol for the youth of their time, a reminder that they had something to say and demanded to be listened to.
American Pie is supposed to be the name of the plane that crashed, containing the three guys that died. (Reported by Ronald van Loon from the discussion on American Pie, autumn 1991, on rec.music.folk) Dan Stanley mentioned an interesting theory involving all of this; roughly put, he figures that if Holly hadn't died, then we would not have suffered through the Fabian/Pat Boone/et.al. era...and as a consequence, we wouldn't have *needed* the Beatles -- Holly was moving pop music away from the stereotypical boy/girl love lost/found lyrical ideas, and was recording with unique instrumentation and techniques...things that Beatles wouldn't try until about 1965. Perhaps Dylan would have stuck with the rock and roll he played in high school, and the Byrds never would have created an amalgam of Dylan songs and Beatle arrangements. Lynn Gold tells me that "Life" magazine carried an annotated version of American Pie when the song came out; does anybody have a copy? If so, please contact me, because I'd love to see it.
Still other notes:
Andrew Whitman brings a sense of perspective to all of this by noting: As to what they threw off the bridge, Bobbie Gentry once went on record with the statement that it was the mystery that made the song, and that the mystery >would remain unsolved. Don McLean later used the same device to even greater success with "American Pie," which triggered a national obsession on figuring out the "real meaning" of the song. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Little Neophyte Date: 18 Jan 00 - 01:40 PM RSK or whoever started this thread, I would like you to know how much I appreciated you posting the critque. I learned a great deal and found it fascinating. Thank you, BB |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 04 Feb 00 - 10:45 AM According to the BBC webpage Entertainments section "American Pie" is about to make it back into the charts. The bad news is it is a shortened speddier "dance" version by Madonna with UK thesp. Rupert Everett as backing singer What's a poor jokester to do when real life is this funny? RtS |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Feb 00 - 10:24 PM Fascinating stuff, and I'm glad someone posted it. But I can never accept one-to-one interpretations as final and complete. Poetry and song doesn't work like that much of the time. An image starts from some literal thing, and then takes on all kinds of symbolic meanings.
You can make a collage out of pictures cut out of magazines - all the little bits would have an original meaning, from the picturte they were cut from - but the whole collage could have some all kinds of other meanings.
But can anyone answer this question? I've always thought that the voice that comes in on the final chorus in McLean's original recording sounds a whole lot like Pete Seeger, and I know Don McLean worked with him. Is it Pete? |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 05 Feb 00 - 12:06 AM Just last week my husband wanted the words to this song. So in my searching I also found this explanation of all the words. It may be the same as all the above, but I think it does give another explanation of "drove my Chevy to the levee." I calculated that it would take 10 pages to print it all out, so just bookmarked it instead. Here 'tis. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: GUEST,Kita513 Date: 05 Feb 00 - 11:10 AM I wonder, could the "rolling stone" refer simply to a gravestone? Just a thought to consider |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Lanfranc Date: 05 Feb 00 - 01:23 PM Any truth in the theory postulated above and on BBC radio in the UK that "American Pie" was the name of the plane in which Holly, Big Bopper and Valens died? Must be a matter of record somewhere. Have now heard Madonna's version and it's not to my taste, the overwhelming thought in my mind as I listened was "Why?". (Usual cynical answer "To make money") I always liked the (probably apocryphal) response of Don McLean when asked what American Pie meant - "It means I'll never have to work again" What next? LL Cool J raps the songs of Leonard Cohen? The Spice Girls sing Baez?
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Subject: RE: American Pie From: GUEST,LEJ Date: 05 Feb 00 - 06:25 PM I think Seeger should cover Ray of Light. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Snuffy Date: 05 Feb 00 - 08:20 PM Alan It certainly wasn't apocryphal. Don McLean was in Britain 4 or 5 years ago, and appeared on BBC Radio 2. The presenter asked him what American Pie meant, and he answered " t means that I don't ever have to work again if I don't want to". At least that's how I remember hearing it at the time. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: bob schwarer Date: 10 Feb 00 - 07:25 AM This whole story of "American Pie" was posted on the old Xerox DT many years ago. Maybe Dick can dig it out. Bob S |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Mulligan Date: 10 Feb 00 - 01:13 PM A fascinating thread about the perfect rock/folk song. It is true that Madonna has just recorded it; I winced when I first heard it. However, it is a dance version, so Don may approve. Dan |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: john c Date: 10 Feb 00 - 03:40 PM Hate to have to admit to this - but Ive heard Madonnas version a few times and I think its great. OK, so shes no folksinger but she SINGS the song really well and treats it with a great deal of respect. And I think thats as much as you can ask from any singer covering someone- elses songs. Maybe Im getting old. J. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Feb 00 - 08:04 PM Now the one I'd dearly love to hear sing it would be Christy Moore. (Mind that goes for most songs - but what I really mean is that he has a way of singing a song that stops you hearing the voice of the fella that originally sang it in your head, any time you want to sing it, and yet doesn't make you feel impelled to copy him either. That's how it works for me anyway.) |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: dick greenhaus Date: 10 Feb 00 - 08:41 PM My kids weere very partial to the song. Of course they were five and nine at the time. DT got this from an anonymous posting on rec.music.folk. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: GUEST,pastorpest Date: 10 Feb 00 - 11:41 PM I agree with McGrath of Harlow on the images. I am grateful to read all the detailed connections but I do not need the detail to thoroughly enjoy the song. I thought a "levee" was a formal New Years Day gathering (tails and gowns and all that) hosted by higher mucky-mucks and by invitation only. Drove my chevy to the levee but the levee was dry (nothing for ordinary folk) The good old boys (higher mucky-mucks) drinking whiskey and rye had it all. Regardless, what a great song. I remember, somewhere around 1970? a group of university students at Queens in Kingston, ON coming back from a rock concert by a band then famous and now forgotten, all excited by the opening act. An unknown singer named Don McLean openned for the rock band and sang American Pie. The band never recovered from the opening act that blew the audience away. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Snuffy Date: 23 Apr 00 - 01:18 PM I found this in the financial pages of the "Guardian" newspaper last week.
HUMBLE PIE(An email doing the City rounds)A long, long week ago I can still rememeber how the market made me smile What I'd do when I had the chance Is get myself a cash advance And add another tech stock to the pile But Alan Greenspan made me shiver With every speech that he delivered Bad news on the rate front But still I'd take one more punt I can't remember if I cried When I heard about the CPI I lost my fortune and my pride The day the Nasdaq died So bye-bye to my piece of the pie Now I'm gettin' calls for margin 'Cause my cash account's dry It's just two weeks from a new all-time high And now we're right back where we were in July We're right back where we were in July Did you buy stocks you never heard of QCOM at 150 or above? 'Cause George Gilder told you so Now do you believe in Home Depot? Can Wal-Mart save your portfolio? And can you teach me what's a P-E ratio? Well, I know that you were leveraged too So you just can't take a long term view Your broker shut you down No more margin could be found I never worried on the whole way up Buying dot.coms from the back of a pickup truck But Friday I ran out of luck It was the day the Naaaaasdaq died Istarted singing Bye-bye to my piece of the pie Now I'm gettin' calls for margin 'Cause my cash account's dry It's just two weeks from a new all-time high And now we're right back where we were in July Yeah we're right back where we were in July VRH Wassail! V |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Victoria H. Date: 23 Apr 00 - 11:42 PM Anyone else ever hear John McCutcheon sing "Buy, Buy this American Car" ? GREAT STUFF! |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Hollowfox Date: 27 Apr 00 - 11:02 AM Does anybody else have an origin story for the song itself, not the subject? In Saratoga Springs, NY, I was told that Don McLean had a gig at the Caffe Lena in June 1971. After the show, (Friday or Saturday night; the regular engagement there was/is a three-day weekend for "name" performers) he went to the Tin & Lint Bar, still an excellent establishment. At the time it was also in posession of one of the finest eclectic music collections, both jukebox and phonograph records, to be found. As time passed, listening to the music (and presumably having a few) he concluded They Don't Write Them Like That Anymore, and wrote American Pie. (A large quiet man nicknamed Sloth was tending bar that night. He's not the type to make up things, or exaggerate. We talked about this long ago, and I believe him.) Don was staying that weekend at the Wildflowers folk musicians' co-op. As Don was getting ready to go out the next day, one of the co-op members (nicknamed (White) Rat because fo his hair color; there's nothin else rodent-like about him) handed him the paper with the lyrics on it, saying that he (Don) had forgotten them. That night, he sang the song at the Caffe, and the cook (Max Valdez), remarked, half as a joke "In six months, that will be on the Top Forty!" That weekend, Lena booked him for his reuglar New Years Weekend gig. In six months the song was on the Top Forty, and the (tiny) place was packed over New Years. My other sources: Max and Caffe waitresses (much closer to 1971 than to today),and Andy Cohen, another member of Wildflowers (likewise, regarding the time frame). |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: raredance Date: 27 Apr 00 - 10:24 PM Weird Al Yankovic's parody of "American Pie" is also a lot of fun. He tells the story of last years' Star Wars movie. rich r |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: georgeward Date: 28 Apr 00 - 04:12 AM Hollowfox, In recent years, DM has been quoted as saying he did not first perform the song at Caffe Lena, in consequence of which we at the Caffe have become wary of claiming that he did. Note that I said "quoted as saying." Did he actually say it ? I 'm not certain. A lot gets written about Caffe Lena (thankfully). But a lot of hearsay gets passed along as fact in the process. The quote surfaced when he played Albany not too long after Lena died and let us use the concert as a vehicle for raising awareness about the effort to keep the Caffe alive. I'll try to dig out the press clipping. Your's is the most detailed (maybe even verifiable) account I've heard of the "Caffe Lena origin" story. No surprise there. I'm going to print it out and bounce it off a few oldtimers. maybe someone can add something. (don't hold your breath anyone, I'm pretty overloaded right now. It will take time). Another variant of the tale has the old Executive Bar (now, alas, a spots bar) as the spot where he done the deed. Part of the confusion, of course, stems from the fact that Don played the Caffe a number of times before he hit the big time. Lots of people saw and heard him there. And he spent a lot of time in Saratoga and in the Capital District (of New York State, USA for those abroad). It is no big stretch for many of us to graft AP onto those memories. At worst, we've got an origin myth on our hands. BTW, nobody does three-night bookings at Lena's anymore. Lena herself had started to change that. And no more three-sets-a-night either. Bunch of softies, we've become. -George ::-.--O
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Subject: RE: American Pie From: Kim C Date: 28 Apr 00 - 04:36 PM I saw Don McLean Live on PBS about a month or so ago during the membership drive. During the breaks they showed snippets of interviews and what he said about American Pie was that he wrote it like a dream ---- like when you're dreaming, things don't always make a lot of sense. He said it was a poem, and that was that. I think there are some obvious things in it, and the others are for us to guess at. Which we have. For nearly 30 years. It's almost as old as me but is one of my favorite classic songs; then again, I was an English major and I really dig that kind of epic stuff. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Eluned Date: 28 Apr 00 - 05:49 PM There is one thing about American Pie that a lot of folks have overlooked; it is that kind of song whose words are so powerful, so full of imagery, that whether you understand the meaning behind them or not, or whether or not you are even aware of any mystery behind the words, you will want to hear and sing it over and over. Link that to a highly singable tune and you have a song that will remain in the public awareness for a long time. The following may be silly speculation, or not; It could, though possibly in a mutated version, be sung by people a century from now, having joined the ranks of it's simpler forbears, little tunes such as "London Bridge" and "Ring-a-rosie" whose meanings most folks never know, longer Lullabyes whose meanings have also been lost, and folk tunes that are still being sung many centuries later, about events most of us have never heard of. Its that kind of a song. |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: Hollowfox Date: 29 Apr 00 - 10:56 AM Hey, georgeward, thanks for the commentary. I wrote my piece with such sources as I could remember - even though it sounded stuffy to me - so that folks could, more or less, know where I got the tale, keeping it out of the anonymous-sources-entirely-unverifiable bin, if only by an inch. If anybody knows where Rat or Sloth are, tell them I said "Hi". |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: GUEST,c.j.uitenbogaard Date: 30 Apr 00 - 03:12 AM Absolutely great! |
Subject: RE: American Pie From: BlueJay Date: 30 Apr 00 - 03:58 AM Snuffy- Thanks so much for bringing this thread back up to the top. It is fascinating, and I had not read it before. I probably wouldn't have gone searching for it, either. As far as covers of the song go, the best I've heard was by Garth Brooks, (solo), which was on TV a while back. Now modern Country/Western music is not my cup of tea. On the threat of death, I would be unable to name a single Garth Brooks hit. But I must admit, I loved his cover of American Pie. He put on an enthusiastic, soulful performance, much in keeping with Don M's original. I've never researched Brooks, but my more knowledgable friends tell me that his origins were really in folk music, and went Country to put food on the table. Market forces and all that. It's easy to believe, after watching him perform American Pie solo on guitar! I haven't heard the Madonna cover, and the thought makes me cringe. But previously if you'd asked if I would like a Garth Brooks cover of the song, I probably would have cringed also. I'm glad this thread resurfaced. BlueJay |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: American Pie (+ program notes) From: Mrrzy Date: 19 Apr 21 - 11:24 AM Just got this... Lots of detail. Video with pix. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: American Pie (+ program notes) From: GerryM Date: 20 Apr 21 - 06:24 AM Yes, the "program notes" were posted to the Usenet newsgroup rec.music.folk in 1993. Here is a repost to that group from 1994. I get a mention for having made some small contribution to the notes. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Add: American Pie (+ program notes) From: GerryM Date: 20 Apr 21 - 06:29 AM Here's the rec.music.folk post from 1993, with better formatting, and with the author's name (Rich Kulawiec). |
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