Gig advice: # of songs in an hour

Subject: BS: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Dunkle
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 04:48 PM

I'm certain that there will be a wide variety of answers here, but we're planning for our first real 'gig' in a long time, and wondering, as we start choosing songs, how many (run of the mill, typical, old-school folk) songs should we think about doing in a given hour of performing? Ball park, of course...

Subject: RE: BS: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 05:45 PM

My rule of thumb - about 10 - 12 songs + extras. Works out about 5 mins per song including getting started and finished + applause + introductions. If you need extra - slot in before the final song to get your big finish. Intros are good for spacing out as an hour of non stop singing can take a toll on the voice. Also make sure that the intros are interesting (to the audience), sufficiently rehearsed (enough to know what you are going to say before you say it) and don't ramble on too long.

Also, when you are rehearsing, keep note of timings - to get a balance of longer songs and shorter songs.

Subject: RE: BS: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: meself
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 05:50 PM

In my experience, a typical set would be between 40 and 50 minutes. I would make up a list of about a dozen pieces; if I found myself at the end of the list with time to spare, I'd steal one or two from the next set. Many possibilities for how you divide the time up, of course; some prefer longer sets and longer breaks, and vice versa.

For an hour set, I suppose I'd have about twenty songs, and might drop out one or two, depending on how long the shaggy-dog stories go on, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Dunkle
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 05:32 PM

Good advice; thanks.

Subject: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 08:37 PM

I generally prepare a lot more than I perform, and then I alter the song list to fit the audience. And yeah, a 45-minute set seems about right unless the spirit of the gathering moves you to go longer. If you and the audience are having fun, why stop?

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 09:22 PM

Joe - is right on for USA.

There are even union standards 45/15.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

long gone are the days when NGDB played four hours and then broke up to play at private homes until sunrise. The emphasis was on learning, innovating, and sharing.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: RTim
Date: 23 Oct 21 - 09:51 PM

As a Unaccompanied Singer...Singing for an Hour can be tough. I remember one event where I was singing Shanties in a bar for an allotted one hour.....I got so exhausted (IMO), as soon as I went outside I developed a Cold!! There were probably odd circumstances that caused this....But I do remember being very tired at the end!!!
Two sessions of Forty Five minutes, with a break, is a good length for me.....

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Johnny J
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 07:16 AM

Could the OP be also looking for advice re the number or "well known" songs V own material?    i.e. how to balance out the hour?

If so, then unless you already have a reputation as a good song writer/composer it's always best to balance your own material with that of others and/or traditional material. I'd say about 50:50 but it will depend on your experience and reputaion.

Sorry, if that's not what you meant. ;-)

Other than that, if we're just talking about a total number of well known songs it will depend on their length. It's probably best to not to have too many really long ones and a balance is important.
I'd say that ten to twelve would probably be about right and to keep the chat brief unless you are really good at that or it is a popular part of your act.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Mo the caller
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 08:28 AM

I'm not a performing singer, just occasional audience. Some songs are done to death, but I do enjoy a song where I can belt out a chorus.
One thing I hate is an introduction that gives the whole story of the song, why bother singing it then. Or one that tells me what my reaction should be before I've heard it.
A song should tell it's own story.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Mo the caller
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 09:08 AM

No objection to introductions that tell me things i need to know to understand the song, e.g. the uses of the herb rue

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 09:53 AM

have about 14 ready, then practise intros and songs and time it, that will get you prepared.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: GUEST,Stan Ellison
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 10:56 AM

Sandman is correct. Time your songs. Incidentally, performance is a quite different to practice. In practice you might stop at an error and correct it. In performance, stopping and correcting should be so rare as to be almost non existent.

I wonder how many people actually 'practice performing'? Set up a space and imagine it as a performing space. Go through a prepared set list without notes. Stand if you would perform standing up and time the whole thing. Too much preparation can make a performance stale but some preparation is helpful.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 02:47 PM

When I played in a R&R band, we played two sets - an hour for the first, and an hour and a half for the second - of virtually continuous, high energy performance. It was exhausting, I don’t recommend trying to keep up that level of energy for that length of time.

In my current folk/Americana band we play two 45-minute sets, and plan for eight songs (with introductions) per set, plus an encore at the end of the second set, so a total of seventeen songs. That allows time for audience interactions (a.k.a. ‘heckling’!) which we very much enjoy, and which adds to the atmosphere of the evening. We do a mixture of originals written by band members, covers, and a couple of Traditional numbers - perhaps 35% originals, 60% covers, 5% trad. Depending on the songs in the sets, we occasionally have to drop one due to shortage of time (several of our songs are 6-7 minutes long).

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: JHW
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 02:50 PM

An Hour seems long. I'd go with what 'meself' says above.
Looking at my old book seems like 8 or 10 for each set, set being 40 or 45 mins.
For a short while I did 'Pick your own set'. Dished out list of 100 songs and tried to do what was asked. Very Difficult keeping track and singing as well. Best night was when someone volunteered to do the collation. Enjoyable and saved a lot of planning but I often had to do songs not requested to try and maintain balance. Bad idea.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: meself
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 03:38 PM

Of course, we don't know if Dunkle is doing just one hour-long set or if he is playing several sets over several hours ... ?

I haven't done a bar gig since the pandemic rolled in - but I stopped making set lists for them some years before that; I just have a list of about 80 song titles, and just choose as I go along. Some gigs are on a theme, so for those I have separate, appropriate lists; e.g., "cowboy", "Burns Day", "St. Pat's" ....

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 12:39 PM

We booked Alex Campbell at the Marsden inn folk club in South Shields around 1966.
   As an early part of the revival, we looked forward to hearing songs we'd not heard before. Alex was a real showman with busking experience in Europe.
   He registered the laid-back, humour-laden atmosphere of the club, and spent the whole night (2 x 45 minute sets) telling stories and jokes amid gales of laughter- so much so that he only acrually managed three songs all night- one in each half and one to finish!
   Everyone went home happy.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Sol
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 01:44 PM

Obviously, it depends on the lengths of the songs you sing and how much chatting you do in between them. As with previous posters, my rule of thumb is 12 songs for a 45min set.

I usually have two additional songs ready in reserve should the gig go quicker than expected or I get asked to do an encore or couple more. I also earmark at least one song near the end of my set for possible deletion should I find myself running out of time. Nothing worse than keeping your big one for the finale only to have the emcee pull the plug on you after you finish the penultimate song on your set list.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 02:08 PM

Jim - I experienced the same with The Oldham Tinkers :-) Can't remember where it was but I don't think they did more than half a dozen songs across 2 separate >1 hour slots but had the audience in stitches most of the time.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 02:41 PM

Alex was a great entertainer, but we have a newbie asking for advice, who is not going to have a lot of experience in patter, so time your performance, have slightly more than you might need, maybe 13 or 14.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: RTim
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 02:47 PM

What I say below is NOT a criticism of the group..more of an Observation.

I have never seen The Wilson Family at a Live show...However, I have seen many YouTube videos of their marvelous singing...and noted that they take AGES to sing each song....

Lots of friendly brotherly banter, many attempts at finding the note to start, pauses for drinking beer, etc.....all entertaining in a way....but it must somewhat reduce the number of songs they perform in a set....
However...do listen to them at full volume, and I wish someday I can get to see them live!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: JHW
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 02:15 PM

If you can do it decide as you go along. Roy Harris just stood there and with little or no intro did the next song.

PS there is a spoof Wilsons video somewhere of them eventually getting round to singing.
Two, Three, isn't the start - its the next beers.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 03:32 PM

Roy Harris was a very experienced performer, who specialised in getiing audiences to join in chorus singing.
It is inappropiate IMO, to mention experienced perfomers such as Harris or Campbell to an inexperienced newbie, they took years to learn their trade, yes they are good role models, but those skills are not learned overnight

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Brian Peters
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 05:25 PM

Roy Harris was a good friend of mine, and a great role model as a performer, though I agree with Sandman that he spent decades honing his skills, and an inexperienced performer would find his approach hard to emulate. Actually I remember him providing informative and amusing song intros, though he could also launch into a song without preamble when he felt like it, or even start the first song as he walked from his seat to the stage.

On the original question, when facing a folk club or similar 'listening audience', I would budget for an average of 5 minutes per song, including intro, unless I was planning a ballad-heavey set...

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 10:24 PM

It took me years to learn that I was not doing anyone, least of all myself, a favor by making the sets extra long. I try to keep it to around 10, with tight introductions.

Dan

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 03:36 AM

I did not know MacColl very well, but his presentation was well planned and excellent, there was a very good reason for him sitting in the position he did, it was to do with posture, something that is very important for singing.
    preparing yourself for singing is important, taking deep breaths increases oxygen to the brain, and calms the nervous performer, yawning relaxes the vocal chords, a few vocal warm up exercises can be useful avoid drinks with ice, ice constricts the vocal chords.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 03:41 AM

MacColl's habit of singing with his chair back to front was a method of relaxation which allows a free, unrestricted flow of air, particularly useful for long-line songs. Have seen West of Ireland sean nós singers use similar techniques, usually side on with an elbow resting on the chair back.
quote Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 06:20 AM

I'd say that any attempt to answer this question is futile- it's down to individual taste and ability- I have 6 minute songs and 30 second ones, for a start. I think variety of material is a lot more important.
Both of the veteran (sorry!) folkies on here are musicians as well as singers & if you're able, it's a big help in break up your 45 minutes with a few tunes- it helps retain audience interest.

   There's normally something you can say, funny or otherwise, but briefly, about any song which takes your fancy- my 'guru' Bob Davenport would sing a song, unaccompanied or with musicians, but insist the band started the next tune BEFORE the audience applause had stopped, keeping up the 'flow' of the night. It's always worked for me.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 10:04 AM

-You'll pick up the tune
Try adding this non partisan song:

Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
And all the things that wait for me
I realize that I can see
That insurrection's painful
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
I try to find a way to make
All our little joys relate
Without that ever-present hate
But now I know that it's too late, and
That insurrection's painful
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
The game of life is hard to play
I'm gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I'll someday lay
So this is all I have to say
That insurrection's painful
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
He said the way to win is cheat
so lay it down before I'm beat
And to another give my seat
For that's the only painless feat
That insurrection's painful
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
The sword of time will pierce our skins
It doesn't hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger watch it grin, but
The insurrection's painful
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
A brave man once requested me
To answer questions that are key
Is it to be or not to be
And I replied 'Oh, why ask me?'
The insurrection's painful
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
'cause insurrection's painful
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please
And you can do the same thing if you please

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 01:14 PM

I just did my first 'gig' in years at a Seniors Centre.   I put together 14 songs....many of them fairly short, switching from piano to guitar than back to guitar. And, even with some repartee with the audience and a few repeated chorus for sing-a-longs, it took about 55 minutes.

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Oct 21 - 06:24 AM

Big Jim is right, variety of subject matter is important. so is variety of tempos and keys, Now also knowing your audience.Iwas recently booked at Tenterden folk festival.
before me on a concert was group choir of six singers, so i PRETENDED TO MYSELF I WAS Roy Harris, and started with a chorus shanty and got the singers/choir to sing the chorus soon the whole room was joining in.
it was an example of sussing the audience and mood., and having a flexible approach. That comes from experience and having a varied repertoire. WE DO NOT KNOW THE ops kind of audience

Subject: RE: Gig advice: # of songs in an hour
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 30 Oct 21 - 08:49 AM

Here's one of my 30 second songs- in fact it's more like 10 seconds-

in the style of Tom Jones with help from Ed Pickford....

'The old town looked the same
So I got back on the train'......