Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures

Subject: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: GUEST,Joe MacGillivray (Nova Scotia)
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 04:02 PM

Hi everyone. I just saw the recent thread on Limericks. I have an interest in ancient Celtic Poetic structures, andI have self-studied and written in types of formatting. Most resources will quote Irish and Welsh structural formats. A favourite of mine is the Irish Treochair. It’s based around three phrase stanzas like a triad. The first and third lines have five syllables which often “rhyme” and the second line with three syllables. They are often nature based verses. I have put some into folk song. I’m wondering about Ancient poet fans here and a discussion on these various format structures.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 10:10 AM

Hope that you find some people on here with similar interests, open to discussion. I don't know much about this area but am interested to know more. Looking forward to seeing how this thread develops...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: GUEST,Joe m’gillivray
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 09:35 PM

Thank you. I made an error in my post. Syllables are 3,7,7 (respective lines).

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: sian, west wales
Date: 26 Oct 21 - 08:00 PM

You should get the book, "Welsh Traditional Music" by Phyllis Kinney (University of Wales Press, July 15 2011, ISBN-10: ? 070832357X) which is pretty much the best English language publication available. Also anything by Sally Harper, U. Bangor.

I'm very fond of the Welsh triban which compares three things with a clever or witty or moral connection. i.e. Three things easy to know: a man, an oak tree, and a day. The day turns (revolves/progresses), the tree is solid, and the man is two-faced. There are a lot from South East Wales - Mudcatter Dr Price is a good source for these. Ploughing with oxen continued well into the 19th century in Wales and tribannau were among the verses sung to the oxen as they worked to keep them happy. It was believed that oxen (as well as bees) were particularly wise and mystical and needed special treatment - a belief rooted in the dim and distant past. Young lads were hired - on audition - according to the breadth of their repertoire as they would walk backwards in front of the oxen, singing to them.

Get hold of Phyllis' book. You'll enjoy it.

sian, west wales

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 10:34 AM

Young lads were hired - on audition - according to the breadth of their repertoire as they would walk backwards in front of the oxen, singing to them.

You've seen samba school leaders in action?...

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: sian, west wales
Date: 28 Oct 21 - 09:26 PM

Can't say I have ... Did their cattle respond to Latin rhythms? Might make for some zig-zaggy furrows in the fields ...

s, ww

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: GUEST,PB
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 08:24 AM

Sounds a bit like chaucw to me. But seriously, if he's still compos mentis, Les Barker is the man to ask. He's won prizes for his Welsh poetry, and he says the best thing about it is the audience don't recite it along with him.

Subject: RE: Folklore: Irish/Welsh Ancient Poetic Structures
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 21 - 10:41 AM

I thought samba school leaders were the world champions in walking backwards. I've seen one at a demo in Glasgow doing it for three miles. But all day in front of an ox team over a rough field is even more impressive.