BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 02:42 PM

How James Webb Orbits "Nothing" video - can't say I like the presentation.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 10:47 AM

I have a telescope that was my father's; he lived at the beach and I imagine he used it to watch boats and whales and whatnot when he wasn't watching the moon and stars. I've set it up in the driveway with the porch lights off. I can get into an area that is away from the streetlights (the back yard would be better but the dogs are a hazard to the tripod unless I lock them up.) I don't have a connection for the camera on the telescope, though that would be nice. I have also set up the Canon camera with the long lens on a tripod to catch lunar events.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 10:37 AM

I think we're talking optical quality, not just magnification. However.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 08:52 AM

Your binocs are about the same. Through refining the design of the telescope he developed an instrument that could magnify eight times, and eventually thirty times. (a barlow like eyepiece) This increased magnification of heavenly objects had a significant and immediate impact.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 08:12 AM

There's a free app called Jupiter Moon Tracker which shows you the positions at any time on any date, including right now, of the Galilean moons of Jupiter (Ganymede, Callisto, Europa and Io). They're very easy to see through binoculars (get your pinpoint focus right first!) and they're always in just about the same plane, to the "side" of the planet. Obviously, you only see the ones that are not directly in front of or behind the planet, but they move fast. If you use a telescope instead, you'll see the image upside down. I haven't got a telescope so I dunno whether this app can flip the image. There are pay-for apps that will do that. I love stuff like this.

My fifty-quid Olympus 8x30 binoculars are apparently better than anything Galileo had!

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Feb 22 - 06:20 AM

It can't be seen from here now due to rain and 60 F temperatures but here is...

The familiar moon and Jupiter without telescopes

Depending on what planet you are from this is a very exotic pic. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Feb 22 - 10:39 PM

Don, I love those NASA photos. Every so often I go in looking to see what's new. My desktop background is a photo taken by the Mars rover of a sandy dune area where it drove through so it's like the tracks of a road. It could easily be a view of the Desert Southwest. I save a bunch of art photos and sky photos in a folder that I link to the screensaver to play through. I've just added one of your recent linked photos to that folder.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Feb 22 - 08:06 PM

I think it wobbles, I.e., is unstable, which means that the satellite's position has to be tweaked to avoid its drifting off into space. I suppose that the halo orbit solves any problem with insolation. Do realise that I'm at the extreme limit, or slightly beyond, of my understanding....

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Mr Red
Date: 03 Feb 22 - 06:44 PM

The way Dr Becky described it, the principle reason to orbit was to maximise insolation. I guess if there is no "orb" - "it" is a misnomer that any idiot can still visualise. But does it require a mass at the focus to qualify as an orbit? OED 1st definition requires merely a curve (usually closed).

The JWST probably requires more propellant to "circle" L2 than to stay directly at it. Or maybe they have some clever interaction with the moon that stabilises the halo. Or that it is just the nature of a Lagrange point, it wobbles. (discuss).

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Feb 22 - 05:57 AM

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2202/MwCenter_MeerKATMunoz_7530.jpg

Messier galaxy imaged in radio wave spectrum

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 07:02 AM

view near Antares
when we can't see through the dust.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 22 - 05:02 AM

As a humble biologist, my delvings into this are shaky (that's my massive disclaimer...). It seems that if (theoretically) the telescope were to remain at L2 perfectly, it would experience a permanent annular eclipse of the sun (by the earth), but that is not only a very bad option as far as the telescope's solar panels are concerned, it's not possible anyway because L2 is unstable, which requires constant tweaking of the mission's position to stop it from waltzing off into space. Hence the need for this somewhat wobbly halo orbit...

I never cease to be amazed by this stuff...

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 05:40 PM

Aha, it's a "halo orbit" around L2. From wiki:

"Since L2 is just an equilibrium point with no gravitational pull, a halo orbit is not an orbit in the usual sense: the spacecraft is actually in orbit around the Sun, and the halo orbit can be thought of as controlled drifting to remain in the vicinity of the L2 point."

I think I get it (slightly more!)

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 05:29 PM

You'll have to run that one past me a little differently. A Lagrange point isn't a thing that you can orbit around. Perhaps the telescope rotates at the LaGrange point in order to maximise its panels' exposure to the sun?

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 12:32 PM

One thing Dr Becky explained was that the JWST will orbit the Lagrange Point so that Its solar cells receive sunlight. Otherwise it would permanently be in the shadow of the Earth & the moon. She hopes to be working on the data that comes from the JWST.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 11:25 AM

Ah, now we know where you get your legendary clarity of expression from. Discreet can't be a typo for discrete, by the way (which is what you meant). They are entirely different words.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 10:01 AM

Is that what recursive language means? and what is HO OME.

There are also hypotheses that time exists in 4 dimensions. pdf
note that time does not exist as one discreet thing, in fact space and time have imaginary aspects to it, like shadows on a cave wall interpreted by our minds. Defining Time like an object ain't gonna happen but who knows maybe you think you can.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Jan 22 - 03:52 AM

Amen!

The telescope reached the L2 LaGrange point on January 24. So far, so good.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jan 22 - 09:54 PM

The paywall kicks in after 3 visits in any given month.
Donuel, If I can spell your name right, you can give me the same courtesy.
If you don't understand something, don't pontificate on it.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 22 - 05:33 PM

EBarnicle, congratulations for being subscribed to the nyt.
On the other 2 counts I am confused and ignorant. I do see time as an an emergent effect from other forces like space, mass and velocities.
Time is not one discreet thing or force in my mind although 'c' figures prominetly in equations. Plainly spoken Time is space and mass' bitch.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: EBarnacle
Date: 24 Jan 22 - 05:06 PM

Two things:
Donuel, can you define time without the use of recursive language?

IT'S HO OME!!!



https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/science/james-webb-telescope-arrival.html?action=click&algo=bandit-all-surfaces_filter_new_ar

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 03:38 PM

Brian Greene and panel discuss what Webb will look at

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 01:46 PM

another thing we don't know

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 09:01 AM

Here are new paths to solving gravity up until 2020.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sTBZ2G4vow
worth the 15 minute length.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 08:48 AM

asteroid today and more

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 11:34 AM

I saw this guy's video before but found him too cute but more informative. I went with the more brief but dry British guy.

Will Webb 'see' behind the curtain of the dark age opaque universe?
send in for the James Webb decoder ring and stay tuned.
Allow 5-8 months for delivery.

this is just a dark nebula

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 03:34 AM

According to Astrophysicist Becky, the JWT launch was so close to target that the useful life can more than double. She is a black hole specialist and makes any dry subject like that entertaining - don't just trust me - trust yer own eyes (YouTube & the JWT launch)

This is because the fuel needed to get to the Lagrange point and the accuracy thereof used the minimum budget and left more to keep the instrument on top of the (notional) hill top. The Earth's, the Moon's and the planets have less than perfect trajectories - mostly due to the gas giants like Jupiter's mass modifying local gravity. In short, it ain't exactly a three body problem - in reality.

FWIW I found this guy's explanation of Lagrange points simplistic enough and entertaining (given the techie nature) for it to stick in my head - is that a Lagrange point for Lagrange points?

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 22 - 04:55 PM

Some are better for different things and some are more stable than others. I think a couple of them still need tiny corrections.
The three body problem was solved before Voyager.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 22 - 04:46 PM

I've long thought that Lagrange points were likely to turn out to be very useful in space operations.   But until now I hadn't appreciated how many there were.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jan 22 - 04:43 PM

The big bang theory must have had a high temperature at the start between the microscopic/quantum through inflation stages. Then it is theorized it grows cold enough to form atoms and go through annihilation of anti matter - that is followed by an opaque dark era before stars ignited with light. We have not ever seen beyond those dark ages of the opaque stage.

{My wonder is if the James Webb telescope can detect heat signatures before/farther back in time, before the opaque era. OR an entirely new surprise is seen.}

The inflationary period where space expanded beyond known velocities is a strange period. I always believed contrary to most cosmologists that it was time that was distorted by mass density and took much longer than a new york minute to reach an expansive space. To be fair space can move faster than light inside of black hole horizons.

In a way we may be able to see in reverse space move beyond relativistic speed but the Webb may see stranger things that I can imagine for sure. Everyone in the field is making their best guesses right now. Some guesses are beyond my understanding and some are too wierd for this ol country boy.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jan 22 - 02:30 PM

https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-begins-mirror-alignment

This step takes 3 months.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jan 22 - 06:44 AM

Orions belt

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 05:40 PM

By the way robo the original 3 body problem is used to find the 5 different LaGrange points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxpVbU5FH0s

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jan 22 - 05:34 PM

In 1666 Oxford University was closed due to the spread of plague and Newton had to go home where he still had time to think. This is the era when he undertook an explanation of gravity. Funny things pandemics. While most of the math checked out it did not explain why.
Borrowing ideas of curved space Albert E refined gravity in terms of energy forces further in general relativity.
Today in an effort to explain why an ant's legs can overcome the entire gravity of our planet we have measured the most miniscule force of gravity in comparison to the other 3 fundamental forces. Well we don't really care about an ant's legs but gravity is minus 67 the power of ten compared to other forces. ITS SMALL On top of that it may not live here at all. There is no graviton we have found but we recently measured its wave from a billion years ago. So what the #@(& is gravity? Here is what we are thinking; There are two branes or sheets of existence hovering close to each other but not touching, some stuff leaks from one to the other like neutrinos and virtual particles and perhaps a distant remnant of a gravity force from the 'land' where gravity lives on that other brane. This unseen universe is not the dark energy or dark matter but something parallel to our entire universe. BUT it may be respondsible for our dark energy...
If the entire brane that contains the strong gravity source stretches out in all directions, then geometrically its gravity would pull in all directions pulling our universe onward and outward everywhere with acceleration.
Funny thing pandemics. They can give time to think.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 03:24 PM

Imagine how it is made to move and focus at 400 degrees below zero.
Best wishes to Barbara McClusky D from Maryland who steadfastly made sure the Webb telescope would be funded.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 11:13 AM

To appreciate just what it took to actually make this gadget work, it is interesting to follow... if not every minute.. this re-broadcast of the live action as they finish deploying the mirrors.
   The entire program is about 4 hours, but one can skip ahead by tapping the progress bar. At about 1 hr. 50 min. they interview one of the technology managers, who explains in detail what it took to create the thing. It is amazing that it took ONLY 20 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGTem8vkB0

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 09:28 AM

...well if you don't know, I'm not at liberty to say ;^/

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 09:12 AM

LIGO and now Webb are instruments of the future of physics.
Developments in quantum computers and AI are also future oriented.
The previous century showed us the relationship of energy and mass.
The next century will have similar breakthroughs for space and time.
In health evolution CRISPR will play a role as yet undetermined by ethics.
Imagination now will determine how we apply this new understanding.
As history has shown much of future physics applications will come from Science Fiction as it did from Jules Verne to Arthur C Clark & John Pierce. There are hundreds of others of course.

What will this mean in the real future world? We will be able to bypass inertia and some limitations of gravity. We will most importantly be able to teleport non organic matter, bypass time barriers, educate the reason challenged and wait for it...

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Jan 22 - 03:34 AM

now employed ?

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jan 22 - 06:23 PM

Fully deployed, I read...

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 12:27 PM

This is the most advanced and expensive pop up book and origami project ever.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 11:14 AM

NASA Live
NEXT LIVE EVENTS

(All times Eastern U.S. time, which equates to UTC-5.)

January 8, Saturday
No earlier than 9 a.m. - Live coverage of the unfolding of the second of the James Webb Space Telescope's primary mirror wings, marking the end of the observatory deployments.
No earlier than 1:30 p.m. - NASA will hold a media briefing as soon as possible after the end of the live broadcast coverage of Webb’s final deployments.
10:40 p.m. - Coverage of the launch of a sounding rocket carrying an X-ray astronomy instrument from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: EBarnacle
Date: 07 Jan 22 - 08:35 AM

Despite all of the possibilities of mechanical failure, it has fully unfurled and is ready for business once it's on the LaGrange point.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 04:22 PM

https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jan 22 - 05:13 AM

Sounds like someone has been reading the "Three Body Problem"(or in your case getting someone to read it to him).

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Jan 22 - 07:22 PM

I figgered it out Chief! If Aliens are 4 dimensional beings while we are only 3 dimensional, even if they accidentally crashed or left a singularity generator on Earth, with an extra dimension of freedom they could reach through any safe or high security area and remove what they wanted with no obsevation. All we would know is that evidence was there and then it wasn't. That the chinese dropa stones are still here may be an indication that they are 3 dimensional too. That or they simply forgot about them. So whadduya think chief...chief? Where didja go chief?

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 02:06 PM

You need to shout like the chief! (And get Hymie to 'lend a hand')

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 12:26 AM

What? I can't see or hear through this cone of silence.

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Dec 21 - 12:18 AM

Back to 86: "missed it by that much!"

Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Dec 21 - 06:21 PM

Curiosity wonder and a need to know our realities is what drives science. "Science innoculates us against the charlatans of lies and even our own biases". Neil Degrass Dyson.

Science has had many great discoveries this year. Too bad more people did not learn the 20 year history of the rna vaccine research. People thought it just was sprung on them in a year. It had many different roots and discoverers as well.

Learning a love of science is a majestic love affair of not mere knowledge but of a way of thinking and seeing what is true what is a lie.