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BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021
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Subject: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 22 Dec 21 - 02:54 PM The launch date has been set, but it is still changing, most recently due to the weather in French Guiana, where it is presently scheduled to rocket off planet on Christmas morning. Briefly, the James Webb Space Telescope is an ambitious plan to site an infrared detector with associated recent tech components at Lagrange point (L2) on the outside of Earth's solar orbit. It will take up to a month to get into position and due to the complexity of the craft and its manifold parts, it will be self-assembling over the next six months. Step one, getting this very complex and valuable equipment launched, is currently set for 7:20 EST 25 December, but consult the website for updates. You can find their website, which appears to be very well organized with background and latest schedule updates at: James Webb Space Telescope website |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 22 Dec 21 - 05:11 PM If it works, I remember Hubble, we will see BEYOND the visible horizon of the Universe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Stilly River Sage Date: 22 Dec 21 - 08:30 PM It's a totally amazing telescope, but it is being assembled into the rocket that will launch it in a way that it can eventually unfurl, like an umbrella. Umbrellas are finicky, and they are trying to design this telescope to avoid some of the pitfalls that plague umbrellas in motion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: DaveRo Date: 23 Dec 21 - 03:23 AM It was the subject of last week's BBC Inside Science radio programme (podcast). |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Rapparee Date: 25 Dec 21 - 02:24 PM |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Rapparee Date: 25 Dec 21 - 02:24 PM ANNNND it's off! |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 25 Dec 21 - 05:06 PM As you all know, the James Webb Telescope 'package' was launched successfully from French Guiana this morning. A few facts: The launch site was selected because it's closer to the Equator than Continental U.S. launch sites. This gives the rocket a small but palpable boost to trajectory due to the rotation of the Earth. Which saves fuel. This is a space project as finely detailed as it is ambitious. Which is Very Very. I got a thrill from hearing so much French in the background and foreground, right down to the ten count. The telescope package is now in a phase where it is relatively slowly proceeding to its general area of operation, which will be around the L2 (Lagrange Point 2) area of space a million miles from Earth in a solar orbit which is maintained in sync with Earth, kept there primarily by Earth's gravitation and secondarily by small expenditures of thrust from the fuel aboard. The mission is known to be limited because of fuel expenditure. It is planned to be useful for ten years. Due to the fuel requirement, it is not likely to last much longer, as opposed to the luck of the Mars rovers, several of which have lasted years longer than their design life. This telescope is all about heat, particularly separating the detection apparatus from any. It's kind of like when telescopes on Earth are located away from nighttime light sources. Their function is to detect and record starlight. In the case of the JWTS the purpose is to detect and record heat signatures. So the umbrella part is to isolate the hardware for this from the sun, the earth, and the support apparatus in the rest of the package. There are other unknowns- the effect of micrometeoroids on the structure and of course the science to be done. I understand that over the years of design and planning the astronomers of the world have distributed every minute of anticipated observation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 26 Dec 21 - 03:59 AM an Other Worldly Wide Webb? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 26 Dec 21 - 08:21 AM https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2112/JwstLaunch_Arianespace_1920.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Stilly River Sage Date: 26 Dec 21 - 11:29 AM The next steps will be just as hair-raising as the buildup to the launch: '29 days on the edge:' What's next for NASA's newly launched James Webb Space Telescope The Webb Telescope’s long journey to L2 This story offers a video of the deployment sequence (scroll down). |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 28 Dec 21 - 04:54 PM When the James Webb search begins it will be looking at a 3 full moon wide patch of sky and measure dark matter gravity in thousands of galaxies. We think we have seen a couple distant galaxies that have no dark matter. We don't know what that means but dark matter may have evolved just as luminous matter has evolved and changed. We can't look back to a young 2 billion year old universe since gas blocked light until it reionized and became transparent but we will see as far back in time as possible. Later planetary searches will be done. Finding the unexpected or 'unsearched for' is also a possibility. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: EBarnacle Date: 29 Dec 21 - 10:32 AM Perhaps we will find out what dark matter/energy actually is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 29 Dec 21 - 01:43 PM The dark matter sweepstakes invites your guess. The winner gets dark matter money. My guess was non baryonic quarks assembled into strange 1/2 spin hadrons in the technicolor range beyond the 100 hadrons we know (which makes their name absurd since they are invisible) and should be called Donuel-Bose condensates. Simply put; it is the energy state condensate of the left over energy junk from the annihilation of matter and anti matter. :*) |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 30 Dec 21 - 07:23 AM EBarnacle 'dark energy' is something entirely different regarding accelerating expansion forces as you know. That more volumetric space is being produced is quite a mystery to be sure. The possible dark balancing act going on is a mind blower. We wouldn't want to stretch the universe to its tearing point would we? Some say the entire universe will have to drop to a lower energy state which will be like a big rip. They claim it is inevitable. C'est la guerre. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 30 Dec 21 - 02:27 PM (Sounds like Elizabeth Homes has some competition for sounding deep and has a prayer of knowing what they're talking about). Meanwhile, back off planet Earth but in the realm of reality: JWST starts to unfurl |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 30 Dec 21 - 04:50 PM Robo should google dark energy but it appears flame trolling is his preference. Cosmology is my 50 year hobby after I ditched religion. Aereodynamics is robo's hobby and he's pretty good at it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 30 Dec 21 - 06:21 PM Curiosity wonder and a need to know our realities is what drives science. "Science innoculates us against the charlatans of lies and even our own biases". Neil Degrass Dyson. Science has had many great discoveries this year. Too bad more people did not learn the 20 year history of the rna vaccine research. People thought it just was sprung on them in a year. It had many different roots and discoverers as well. Learning a love of science is a majestic love affair of not mere knowledge but of a way of thinking and seeing what is true what is a lie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 31 Dec 21 - 12:18 AM Back to 86: "missed it by that much!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 31 Dec 21 - 12:26 AM What? I can't see or hear through this cone of silence. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 31 Dec 21 - 02:06 PM You need to shout like the chief! (And get Hymie to 'lend a hand') |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 05 Jan 22 - 07:22 PM I figgered it out Chief! If Aliens are 4 dimensional beings while we are only 3 dimensional, even if they accidentally crashed or left a singularity generator on Earth, with an extra dimension of freedom they could reach through any safe or high security area and remove what they wanted with no obsevation. All we would know is that evidence was there and then it wasn't. That the chinese dropa stones are still here may be an indication that they are 3 dimensional too. That or they simply forgot about them. So whadduya think chief...chief? Where didja go chief? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 06 Jan 22 - 05:13 AM Sounds like someone has been reading the "Three Body Problem"(or in your case getting someone to read it to him). |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 06 Jan 22 - 04:22 PM https://www.nasa.gov/nasalive |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: EBarnacle Date: 07 Jan 22 - 08:35 AM Despite all of the possibilities of mechanical failure, it has fully unfurled and is ready for business once it's on the LaGrange point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Jan 22 - 11:14 AM NASA Live NEXT LIVE EVENTS (All times Eastern U.S. time, which equates to UTC-5.) No earlier than 9 a.m. - Live coverage of the unfolding of the second of the James Webb Space Telescope's primary mirror wings, marking the end of the observatory deployments. No earlier than 1:30 p.m. - NASA will hold a media briefing as soon as possible after the end of the live broadcast coverage of Webb’s final deployments. 10:40 p.m. - Coverage of the launch of a sounding rocket carrying an X-ray astronomy instrument from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 07 Jan 22 - 12:27 PM This is the most advanced and expensive pop up book and origami project ever. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mrrzy Date: 08 Jan 22 - 06:23 PM Fully deployed, I read... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 09 Jan 22 - 03:34 AM now employed ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 09 Jan 22 - 09:12 AM LIGO and now Webb are instruments of the future of physics. Developments in quantum computers and AI are also future oriented. The previous century showed us the relationship of energy and mass. The next century will have similar breakthroughs for space and time. In health evolution CRISPR will play a role as yet undetermined by ethics. Imagination now will determine how we apply this new understanding. As history has shown much of future physics applications will come from Science Fiction as it did from Jules Verne to Arthur C Clark & John Pierce. There are hundreds of others of course. What will this mean in the real future world? We will be able to bypass inertia and some limitations of gravity. We will most importantly be able to teleport non organic matter, bypass time barriers, educate the reason challenged and wait for it... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 09 Jan 22 - 09:28 AM ...well if you don't know, I'm not at liberty to say ;^/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Bill D Date: 09 Jan 22 - 11:13 AM To appreciate just what it took to actually make this gadget work, it is interesting to follow... if not every minute.. this re-broadcast of the live action as they finish deploying the mirrors. The entire program is about 4 hours, but one can skip ahead by tapping the progress bar. At about 1 hr. 50 min. they interview one of the technology managers, who explains in detail what it took to create the thing. It is amazing that it took ONLY 20 years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlGTem8vkB0 |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 09 Jan 22 - 03:24 PM Imagine how it is made to move and focus at 400 degrees below zero. Best wishes to Barbara McClusky D from Maryland who steadfastly made sure the Webb telescope would be funded. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 22 - 05:34 PM In 1666 Oxford University was closed due to the spread of plague and Newton had to go home where he still had time to think. This is the era when he undertook an explanation of gravity. Funny things pandemics. While most of the math checked out it did not explain why. Borrowing ideas of curved space Albert E refined gravity in terms of energy forces further in general relativity. Today in an effort to explain why an ant's legs can overcome the entire gravity of our planet we have measured the most miniscule force of gravity in comparison to the other 3 fundamental forces. Well we don't really care about an ant's legs but gravity is minus 67 the power of ten compared to other forces. ITS SMALL On top of that it may not live here at all. There is no graviton we have found but we recently measured its wave from a billion years ago. So what the #@(& is gravity? Here is what we are thinking; There are two branes or sheets of existence hovering close to each other but not touching, some stuff leaks from one to the other like neutrinos and virtual particles and perhaps a distant remnant of a gravity force from the 'land' where gravity lives on that other brane. This unseen universe is not the dark energy or dark matter but something parallel to our entire universe. BUT it may be respondsible for our dark energy... If the entire brane that contains the strong gravity source stretches out in all directions, then geometrically its gravity would pull in all directions pulling our universe onward and outward everywhere with acceleration. Funny thing pandemics. They can give time to think. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 10 Jan 22 - 05:40 PM By the way robo the original 3 body problem is used to find the 5 different LaGrange points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxpVbU5FH0s |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 11 Jan 22 - 06:44 AM Orions belt |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 13 Jan 22 - 02:30 PM https://www.space.com/james-webb-space-telescope-begins-mirror-alignment This step takes 3 months. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 14 Jan 22 - 04:43 PM The big bang theory must have had a high temperature at the start between the microscopic/quantum through inflation stages. Then it is theorized it grows cold enough to form atoms and go through annihilation of anti matter - that is followed by an opaque dark era before stars ignited with light. We have not ever seen beyond those dark ages of the opaque stage. {My wonder is if the James Webb telescope can detect heat signatures before/farther back in time, before the opaque era. OR an entirely new surprise is seen.} The inflationary period where space expanded beyond known velocities is a strange period. I always believed contrary to most cosmologists that it was time that was distorted by mass density and took much longer than a new york minute to reach an expansive space. To be fair space can move faster than light inside of black hole horizons. In a way we may be able to see in reverse space move beyond relativistic speed but the Webb may see stranger things that I can imagine for sure. Everyone in the field is making their best guesses right now. Some guesses are beyond my understanding and some are too wierd for this ol country boy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Jan 22 - 04:46 PM I've long thought that Lagrange points were likely to turn out to be very useful in space operations. But until now I hadn't appreciated how many there were. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 14 Jan 22 - 04:55 PM Some are better for different things and some are more stable than others. I think a couple of them still need tiny corrections. The three body problem was solved before Voyager. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 17 Jan 22 - 03:34 AM According to Astrophysicist Becky, the JWT launch was so close to target that the useful life can more than double. She is a black hole specialist and makes any dry subject like that entertaining - don't just trust me - trust yer own eyes (YouTube & the JWT launch) This is because the fuel needed to get to the Lagrange point and the accuracy thereof used the minimum budget and left more to keep the instrument on top of the (notional) hill top. The Earth's, the Moon's and the planets have less than perfect trajectories - mostly due to the gas giants like Jupiter's mass modifying local gravity. In short, it ain't exactly a three body problem - in reality. FWIW I found this guy's explanation of Lagrange points simplistic enough and entertaining (given the techie nature) for it to stick in my head - is that a Lagrange point for Lagrange points? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 17 Jan 22 - 11:34 AM I saw this guy's video before but found him too cute but more informative. I went with the more brief but dry British guy. Will Webb 'see' behind the curtain of the dark age opaque universe? send in for the James Webb decoder ring and stay tuned. Allow 5-8 months for delivery. this is just a dark nebula |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 18 Jan 22 - 08:48 AM asteroid today and more |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 19 Jan 22 - 09:01 AM Here are new paths to solving gravity up until 2020. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sTBZ2G4vow worth the 15 minute length. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 19 Jan 22 - 01:46 PM another thing we don't know |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 19 Jan 22 - 03:38 PM Brian Greene and panel discuss what Webb will look at |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: EBarnacle Date: 24 Jan 22 - 05:06 PM Two things: Donuel, can you define time without the use of recursive language? IT'S HO OME!!! https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/science/james-webb-telescope-arrival.html?action=click&algo=bandit-all-surfaces_filter_new_ar |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 24 Jan 22 - 05:33 PM EBarnicle, congratulations for being subscribed to the nyt. On the other 2 counts I am confused and ignorant. I do see time as an an emergent effect from other forces like space, mass and velocities. Time is not one discreet thing or force in my mind although 'c' figures prominetly in equations. Plainly spoken Time is space and mass' bitch. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: EBarnacle Date: 24 Jan 22 - 09:54 PM The paywall kicks in after 3 visits in any given month. Donuel, If I can spell your name right, you can give me the same courtesy. If you don't understand something, don't pontificate on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Jan 22 - 03:52 AM Amen! The telescope reached the L2 LaGrange point on January 24. So far, so good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 25 Jan 22 - 10:01 AM Is that what recursive language means? and what is HO OME. There are also hypotheses that time exists in 4 dimensions. pdf note that time does not exist as one discreet thing, in fact space and time have imaginary aspects to it, like shadows on a cave wall interpreted by our minds. Defining Time like an object ain't gonna happen but who knows maybe you think you can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Jan 22 - 11:25 AM Ah, now we know where you get your legendary clarity of expression from. Discreet can't be a typo for discrete, by the way (which is what you meant). They are entirely different words. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 25 Jan 22 - 12:32 PM One thing Dr Becky explained was that the JWST will orbit the Lagrange Point so that Its solar cells receive sunlight. Otherwise it would permanently be in the shadow of the Earth & the moon. She hopes to be working on the data that comes from the JWST. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Jan 22 - 05:29 PM You'll have to run that one past me a little differently. A Lagrange point isn't a thing that you can orbit around. Perhaps the telescope rotates at the LaGrange point in order to maximise its panels' exposure to the sun? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 25 Jan 22 - 05:40 PM Aha, it's a "halo orbit" around L2. From wiki: "Since L2 is just an equilibrium point with no gravitational pull, a halo orbit is not an orbit in the usual sense: the spacecraft is actually in orbit around the Sun, and the halo orbit can be thought of as controlled drifting to remain in the vicinity of the L2 point." I think I get it (slightly more!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 26 Jan 22 - 05:02 AM As a humble biologist, my delvings into this are shaky (that's my massive disclaimer...). It seems that if (theoretically) the telescope were to remain at L2 perfectly, it would experience a permanent annular eclipse of the sun (by the earth), but that is not only a very bad option as far as the telescope's solar panels are concerned, it's not possible anyway because L2 is unstable, which requires constant tweaking of the mission's position to stop it from waltzing off into space. Hence the need for this somewhat wobbly halo orbit... I never cease to be amazed by this stuff... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 26 Jan 22 - 07:02 AM view near Antares when we can't see through the dust. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 02 Feb 22 - 05:57 AM https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2202/MwCenter_MeerKATMunoz_7530.jpg Messier galaxy imaged in radio wave spectrum |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 03 Feb 22 - 06:44 PM The way Dr Becky described it, the principle reason to orbit was to maximise insolation. I guess if there is no "orb" - "it" is a misnomer that any idiot can still visualise. But does it require a mass at the focus to qualify as an orbit? OED 1st definition requires merely a curve (usually closed). The JWST probably requires more propellant to "circle" L2 than to stay directly at it. Or maybe they have some clever interaction with the moon that stabilises the halo. Or that it is just the nature of a Lagrange point, it wobbles. (discuss). |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 03 Feb 22 - 08:06 PM I think it wobbles, I.e., is unstable, which means that the satellite's position has to be tweaked to avoid its drifting off into space. I suppose that the halo orbit solves any problem with insolation. Do realise that I'm at the extreme limit, or slightly beyond, of my understanding.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Feb 22 - 10:39 PM Don, I love those NASA photos. Every so often I go in looking to see what's new. My desktop background is a photo taken by the Mars rover of a sandy dune area where it drove through so it's like the tracks of a road. It could easily be a view of the Desert Southwest. I save a bunch of art photos and sky photos in a folder that I link to the screensaver to play through. I've just added one of your recent linked photos to that folder. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 04 Feb 22 - 06:20 AM It can't be seen from here now due to rain and 60 F temperatures but here is... The familiar moon and Jupiter without telescopes Depending on what planet you are from this is a very exotic pic. :^/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Feb 22 - 08:12 AM There's a free app called Jupiter Moon Tracker which shows you the positions at any time on any date, including right now, of the Galilean moons of Jupiter (Ganymede, Callisto, Europa and Io). They're very easy to see through binoculars (get your pinpoint focus right first!) and they're always in just about the same plane, to the "side" of the planet. Obviously, you only see the ones that are not directly in front of or behind the planet, but they move fast. If you use a telescope instead, you'll see the image upside down. I haven't got a telescope so I dunno whether this app can flip the image. There are pay-for apps that will do that. I love stuff like this. My fifty-quid Olympus 8x30 binoculars are apparently better than anything Galileo had! |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 04 Feb 22 - 08:52 AM Your binocs are about the same. Through refining the design of the telescope he developed an instrument that could magnify eight times, and eventually thirty times. (a barlow like eyepiece) This increased magnification of heavenly objects had a significant and immediate impact. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Feb 22 - 10:37 AM I think we're talking optical quality, not just magnification. However. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Feb 22 - 10:47 AM I have a telescope that was my father's; he lived at the beach and I imagine he used it to watch boats and whales and whatnot when he wasn't watching the moon and stars. I've set it up in the driveway with the porch lights off. I can get into an area that is away from the streetlights (the back yard would be better but the dogs are a hazard to the tripod unless I lock them up.) I don't have a connection for the camera on the telescope, though that would be nice. I have also set up the Canon camera with the long lens on a tripod to catch lunar events. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 04 Feb 22 - 02:42 PM How James Webb Orbits "Nothing" video - can't say I like the presentation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 04 Feb 22 - 03:45 PM Ho ho ho. Not all moons truly orbit around their planet, it depends on their relative masses. They orbit around the centre of mass. Which is never in the centre of the larger body (eg Earth) and in some cases the focus is outside the larger body, both orbit around nothing. Oooer. One thing the video shows, it that the JWST's trajectory is not normal to the plane of the Earth but at 33º off 90. And the narrator does mention that all the planets affect the orbit (and moons). Adding to normal corrections every 21 days to maintain an elliptical orbit. I actually got into the video after the first 30 seconds. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 05 Feb 22 - 09:18 AM https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2202/archives_raquarii.jpg Explanation: Variable star R Aquarii is actually an interacting binary star system, two stars that seem to have a close symbiotic relationship. Centered in this space-based optical/x-ray composite image it lies about 710 light years away. The intriguing system consists of a cool red giant star and hot, dense white dwarf star in mutual orbit around their common center of mass. With binoculars you can watch as R Aquarii steadily changes its brightness over the course of a year or so. The binary system's visible light is dominated by the red giant, itself a Mira-type long period variable star (Joe). But material in the cool giant star's extended envelope is pulled by gravity onto the surface of the smaller, denser white dwarf (Steve), eventually triggering a thermonuclear explosion, blasting material into space. Astronomers have seen such outbursts over recent decades. Evidence for much older outbursts is seen in these spectacular structures spanning almost a light-year as observed by the Hubble Space Telescope (in red and blue). Data from the Chandra X-ray Observatory (in purple) shows the X-ray glow from shock waves created as a jet from the white dwarf strikes surrounding material. When a collision is enevitable it is not expected to form a black hole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 05 Feb 22 - 10:42 AM The centre of mass of the earth-moon system is 1058 miles inside the earth measured from the surface, whereas the centre of the core is 3958 miles down. I think it would be true to say that all pairs of bodies, in which one appears to be in orbit around the other, follow the rule that they both actually "orbit" around their centre of mass. In the case of the telescope and the point L2, there isn't a centre of mass because L2 hasn't got mass. That's why the wiki article states that the halo "orbit" isn't an orbit in the usual sense. But a physics thickie such as meself is perfectly happy, for sheer convenience, to talk about it as if it was. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 06 Feb 22 - 07:21 AM Center of mass orbit >3000 miles underground? No wonder the tides are so dramatic. They used to be even bigger when the moon was closer. The lunar orbit continues to drift away from Earth. There is a strange orbit of a body behind Earth's orbital direction that orbits in a corkscrew fashion. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 06 Feb 22 - 03:14 PM It's the gravity dance. Kind of like swinging your partner when one of you is more 'mass'-ive than the other. You find a common point around which you are moving. Like when Peter dances with Lois. Double suns do this. I haven't heard much about double suns lately but I expect to hear more about them soon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 06 Feb 22 - 03:57 PM "Center of mass orbit >3000 miles underground?" What does this mean? I gave the numbers as I found them, and this statement doesn't relate to what I said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 08 Feb 22 - 10:43 AM Norway turns green from solar wind. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 08 Feb 22 - 11:12 AM Type one A super novas come from binary stars when one star is a white dwarf and has a runaway nuke explosion with matter from the other star. The umbrella galaxy is a red giant and a white dwarf where the white dwarf explodes only partially. Depending on the elderly stars in a binary system, they can do unexpected things. Neutron binary stars warp gravity. Binary black holes combine to make bigger black holes and ripples the universe for billions of light years. Some super massive black holes are mysteriously big at the early universe. How did they grow ? We just don't know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 08 Feb 22 - 11:40 AM And this relates how to what we're talking about? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 08 Feb 22 - 05:18 PM Go fly a kite. Its Nat. Kite Flying Day today. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 08 Feb 22 - 08:31 PM It was a polite request arising from puzzlement as to how your post was relevant, as there was no reference, implicit or explicit, to the new telescope therein. It's unfortunate and puzzling that you decided to respond rudely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 09 Feb 22 - 05:57 AM Different telescopes see diiferent wavelengths and can create composite photos like this star ... this video changes tommorrow |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:05 AM Quite often people here do seem to respond rudely as a way of carrying on little fights that might have started in other threads about completely different topics. Seems pretty strange, but no accounting for foibles like that. …………. I can never understand how it's possible to talk about how big the universe was to start with. What could you measure it against? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 09 Feb 22 - 09:21 AM That is very insightful. The same incomparability happens with time. I am a rogue who does not believe evrything about the theory of inflation. It only seems impossible because there was no time at the very beginning. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 09 Feb 22 - 10:05 AM The stronger the gravity the slower time goes. If near infinite gravity existed at the big bang it could slow time to a stop, a bit like black holes. Also the faster the velocites the more mass grows. PERHAPS TIME WAS STOPPED INSTEAD OF IMPOSSIBLE INFLATION IDEAS. PS "How wude" quote: Jar Jar Binks |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 09 Feb 22 - 11:38 AM If there's a "very beginning" then there must have been time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 10 Feb 22 - 03:26 AM If there's a "very beginning" then there must have been time. If there's time where did they park the winged chariot? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 10 Feb 22 - 06:30 AM The solar storm seen in Norway had another effect... SpaceX’s newest fleet of satellites is tumbling out of orbit after being struck by a solar storm Up to 40 of the 49 small satellites launched last week have either reentered the atmosphere and burned up, or are on the verge of doing so, the company said in an online update Tuesday night. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 10 Feb 22 - 07:03 AM There wasn't time to pay the fine so perhaps inflation theory has a point regarding a violation of the laws of a universal speed limit. Obviously space moves faster than light or their couldn't be black holes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 10 Feb 22 - 01:54 PM I want to know their insurance carrier. I once was told that my family's house was not insured against 'terror'. There is no doubt a policy for private satellites now. With their own definition of Force Majeure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 11 Feb 22 - 04:52 AM It is my guess that Elon Musk, using his first principles, would have reasoned that satellites that small would burn-up completely. Small means lighter payload getting them up there, thus more on each shot. Indeed the likely up-shot, is grape shot. :) He did study physics at Uni. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 11 Feb 22 - 08:45 AM They looked like slow meteorites as they burned up completely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 11 Feb 22 - 11:33 AM Except that meteorites don't burn up completely. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: robomatic Date: 11 Feb 22 - 06:27 PM Steve: Good luck trying to sop up all the troll juice being leaked by your favorite poster. I've just settled on the theory that anything that is ostensibly fact related from him is questionable and suspect. The only difference between his troll juice and Trmp juice is the direction of splatter. Reminds me of the observation someone made of the words of Alex Jones is that after listening to him you will know less than you knew before he started talking. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 11 Feb 22 - 07:20 PM Quite. He's a severe interruption to the delicious learning curve which I've been on since I was five (sixty-five years ago). He almost makes me feel that I should join the incurious hordes of the grown-ups.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 12 Feb 22 - 08:00 AM GB Fireballs over Puerto Rico likely from doomed Starlink batch Satellites are not as dense** as meteorites, and are moving slower so the have time to heat right through. **unlike people who have the hubris to claim gainsaying opinions on everything. And unbelievable expressions of false modesty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 13 Feb 22 - 11:14 AM Conviviality enhances idea sharing more than a tale of two trolls. I see that oft repeating formula for thread closure over exploration as an empty bleak waste of time. You would think old people would eventually evolve beyond the 90's 'flaming' behavior. But for familiar reasons some ill intentioned people, the familiar is all they will ever know. What are those familiar reasons? Its as we all know, when people really don't like themselves. My unrequested advice is to forgive yourself. It is an old panacea like the defintion of the word 'karma' in original Sanscrit - karma: to take action with a moral choice to bring good into the world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Steve Shaw Date: 13 Feb 22 - 11:24 AM We tell it as it truly is, Donuel old chap. Now suck it up, look at yourself and talk to us about telescopes in space, right? The first images are now coming back to us, a mosaic of 18 images of the same star seen by the 18 mirror segments. The images will be used to align the mirrors correctly so that future images will be pin-sharp. My understanding of the technicalities is limited but it's enough to get me excited. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 13 Feb 22 - 02:17 PM Sorry Mr. Horrible Boss I can't do that since I have more questions than answers. For example we should see steller nurseries with Webb but will we see ancient ultra massive black holes from their hot accretion disks shifted to the red so long ago? They shouldn't be able to exist but we don't know yet. Black hole spotting is very rare today since...we can't see them. We can see their accretion disks or jets or gravitational effects on other bodies. So will we see black holes with the Webb? How old can they be? What will be their composition? Will we find the missing sizes of black holes? We should be able to see stars being born more clearly but there are more questions we do not even know to ask yet. Will we see star grave yards by the name of black holes never seen before? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 13 Feb 22 - 02:26 PM I see London I see France... |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 14 Feb 22 - 04:12 PM happy valentine |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 17 Feb 22 - 07:16 AM I suspect if we ever crack dark matter open, we will see a surprising result regarding [spin]. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 19 Feb 22 - 09:38 AM video |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Mr Red Date: 19 Feb 22 - 12:05 PM dark matter & spin sound remarkably political to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 19 Feb 22 - 12:11 PM Touche a good cosmic primer |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 19 Feb 22 - 12:26 PM Genius can be seeing what we all see but thinking about it differently than anyone else alive. Like the quantum laws, rationality can be less than worthless. Neuroplasticity lasts a lifetime so even old dogmatic minds can learn new tricks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 19 Feb 22 - 12:56 PM Some folks believe that dark matter is primordial dark matter stuff that can be tiny atomic size to ultra massive size. A primordial black hole has to be made of different material than visible matter fed black holes since there wasn't enough time to grow to such enormous sizes so soon after the big bang... they think. Only one part in a billion of matter remaining from the matter anti matter annihilation survived which is the visible matter we see. What about the 999,999,999 remainder of disintegrated annihilated matter? Much of it is energy but a small amount is the strange debris that might be primordial black hole stuff or dark matter. That dark matter out numbers visible matter by 70 to 90% compared to the small amount of visible matter. If this sounds familiar congratulations, you understood me the first time around 10 years ago. Of course I could be wrong but thats the way I see it. Of course I can't see dark matter. Some say primoridial black hole stuff is less dense than than normal black hole stuff. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 04 Mar 22 - 12:15 PM Webb is focusing |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 14 Mar 22 - 07:23 PM Einstien solved the gravity question 100 years ago as an effect of matter curving spacetime's direction but were still bent out of shape over quantum gravity. I say forget it. It's probably the same force that gathers dust bunnies together. Quantum gravity may just be electro dynamic as well. That is my simplistic and naieve conclusion. Anyone else have an opinion or better yet, an answer ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 12 Apr 22 - 05:26 AM https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap220404.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH From: Donuel Date: 20 Apr 22 - 10:04 AM Webb has reached operational temperature and is focused. We are going to see the internal structure of Orion's belt nebula first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: robomatic Date: 14 Jul 22 - 10:31 PM This past week we've had our first official picture downloads and the very happy project members have been interviewed on nightly news and 60 Minutes. Today on NPR (US public radio) mention was made that they have made the most of their fuel supply and could be up and running for a couple of decades, if the creek don't rise and the micro-meteoroids allow. The photos I've seen have been HD Screen worthy beyond any of my laptops. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: Stilly River Sage Date: 23 Oct 22 - 09:49 AM Space.com video: James Webb space telescope view of the Pillars of Creation Astronomers have discovered a cluster of galaxies merging around a rare red quasar, a "monster" supermassive black hole that is greedily feeding on gas and other material. James Webb Space Telescope spies galaxies merging around 'monster' black hole |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: Donuel Date: 23 Oct 22 - 11:46 AM The bigger story is if that red black hole is a primordial black hole that came directly from the big bang that they have been looking for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: robomatic Date: 15 Nov 22 - 09:24 PM Bright and early Wednesday monring about 1300 hours Eastern Time U.S. we are sposed to have a launch of Artemis, who is feeling a bit left out in the rain a coupla times. Fingers crossed! |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: Donuel Date: 18 Nov 22 - 09:09 AM The Webb can look through clouds. Here young clouds of matter are feeding this proto star. https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2211/weic2219a.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: robomatic Date: 21 Nov 22 - 02:36 PM Artemis seems to be suffering from a lack of puliciy due to its great success. Once launched, its liftoff was successful, and it has been on its designated path, currently circling the moon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: Donuel Date: 29 Nov 22 - 05:49 PM Sonifications made from the data from pressure waves from black holes, nebulas, and other cosmic bodies are a wonder to hear. Black holes are the deepest sounds in the universe at 52 octaves below our hearing so the data has to be modified for us to hear. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: Donuel Date: 25 Dec 22 - 11:02 PM A new telescope should be able to image the infant universe in its first moment. I don't think its interferometer will work but I don't believe that inflation happened. I believe that time mererly stopped to a crawl in the presence of new immense mass. Kaku believes it may even image a pre big bang universe. Again I don't think so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: SPACE - James Webb Telescope LAUNCH-Dec 2021 From: Rain Dog Date: 26 Dec 22 - 05:06 AM So we might get to see who or what lit the blue touch paper? |
