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BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022

Donuel 21 Nov 22 - 05:35 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Nov 22 - 03:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Nov 22 - 03:05 AM
robomatic 15 Nov 22 - 09:37 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Nov 22 - 06:55 PM
Jeri 15 Nov 22 - 06:12 PM
Stilly River Sage 15 Nov 22 - 06:09 PM
SPB-Cooperator 15 Nov 22 - 06:03 PM
MaJoC the Filk 15 Nov 22 - 02:50 PM
robomatic 10 Nov 22 - 04:57 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 22 - 12:29 PM
Stilly River Sage 10 Nov 22 - 10:16 AM
FreddyHeadey 07 Nov 22 - 09:40 AM
Donuel 23 Oct 22 - 03:22 PM
Jeri 23 Oct 22 - 12:17 PM
Donuel 21 Oct 22 - 08:14 PM
Donuel 21 Oct 22 - 03:15 PM
Dave the Gnome 21 Oct 22 - 10:29 AM
Stilly River Sage 21 Oct 22 - 10:23 AM
The Sandman 21 Oct 22 - 02:50 AM
robomatic 21 Oct 22 - 12:17 AM
Donuel 20 Oct 22 - 09:58 PM
Rain Dog 20 Oct 22 - 05:57 PM
robomatic 01 Sep 22 - 07:43 PM
Donuel 31 Aug 22 - 08:25 AM
Senoufou 31 Aug 22 - 02:40 AM
robomatic 28 Aug 22 - 05:51 PM
Donuel 28 Aug 22 - 11:13 AM
Senoufou 25 Aug 22 - 03:04 AM
robomatic 24 Aug 22 - 06:03 PM
Senoufou 23 Aug 22 - 02:42 AM
robomatic 22 Aug 22 - 06:44 PM
Dave the Gnome 19 Aug 22 - 12:17 PM
robomatic 19 Aug 22 - 12:06 PM
robomatic 31 Jul 22 - 11:02 PM
Donuel 13 Jun 22 - 03:31 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Jun 22 - 08:19 PM
Stilly River Sage 09 Jun 22 - 07:41 PM
Donuel 09 Jun 22 - 06:46 PM
Stilly River Sage 05 Jun 22 - 03:13 PM
robomatic 05 Jun 22 - 02:31 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 May 22 - 06:55 PM
robomatic 17 May 22 - 03:31 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 May 22 - 10:32 AM
robomatic 16 May 22 - 02:31 PM
Donuel 30 Apr 22 - 09:56 PM
Stilly River Sage 30 Apr 22 - 07:05 PM
Donuel 28 Apr 22 - 05:18 PM
Stilly River Sage 27 Apr 22 - 01:42 PM
Steve Shaw 24 Apr 22 - 04:18 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 22 - 05:35 PM

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/russian-roulette-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 03:07 AM

I should have added Truss and Sunak to the UK list. I don't know enough about Biden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 03:05 AM

Sorry Robomatic. I don't understand your point. Putin is no communist. He is a thug wanting to line his own pockets at any cost. He is about as interested in the welfare of his people as Trump or Johnson are!


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 09:37 PM

I think the overall purpose is to knockout Russia's capacity to deliver the will of Putin at the drop of a kopeck. Until he is unable to control mass weapons he can stir up trouble at a tweet.

Someone (maybe it's us) is footing a big big bill to this end. We do not believe he is going to pull his own punches. He is a snake who needs to be de-fanged, just like the Communists, of which he is a poor sick reminder.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:55 PM

Piece in the Guardian: Explosion in Poland unlikely to spark escalation even if caused by Russia
(Julian Borger, World affairs editor)

Let's keep cool for now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:12 PM

Since this started, I've had a horrible feeling that it's only a matter of time...
(I hope I'm wrong.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:09 PM

The radio folks today were saying that 4 miles across the border was likely a mistake; the Russians haven't been the model of accuracy when it comes to firing missiles. NATO is alert and they are waiting for Poland to report out on what they find at the site.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:03 PM

So Putin has now targeted a NATO member in a military attack NATO is now bound by treaty to retaliate. Oh well, it was a nice planet while it lasted.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 02:50 PM

Reports (carefully stated to be unconfirmed atm) that, during the hail of Russian missiles on Ukraine today, one or two hit a farmhouse just over the border in Poland, and two people were killed. Tin hats time, people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 04:57 PM

These are interesting times. I'm sure of only a few things, mostly obvious. I think Putin is not and has not been very sane. He is more like Trump than we dared fear, emotionally dependent on perceptions and corrupt to the core. He also stores resentment from beyond his personal experience, and is at least a mean S.O.B. as Saudi prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS). Dying of intense radiation poisoning has to have been more horrible than being literally buthcered and paracel-packed for repatriation. o

Currently we only know that whateve the Russians and Putin are declaring and planning, their words don't match what they are planning and probably not what they are currently even understanding as the truth. I believe Zelenskyy has pretty much stated the same about the Russians. Oddly enough, during the Big War, when the Russians turned the tables on one of Hitler's Armies (Stalingrad, almost exactly 80 years ago, they had to alternate between actual military announcements that could be believed and straightforward military accretion of forces (Otherwise who would ever believe them?). This is still what seems to be working for the Ukrainians. So we do not know specifically what is going on, and we are unlikely to know for some time.

Right now the Russians best chance of getting out of this with a minimum of losses is to pray that the U.S. Republicans are bent weirdly enough to support them or betray Ukraine, mainly to spite U.S. policy. But Biden seems to have his head screwed on straight no matter how shaky he may appear, and I'll bet that Putin is just the other way around, making every effort to appear lone and powerful but actually exposed under the ridiculousness attempt to appear Staling-esque.

Maybe it's time to revue "The Death of Stalin".


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 12:29 PM

Penn sounds a little superstitious with his lucky rabbit's foot Oscar.
Everyone is quarky. Sean is an up quark.

Russia can destroy Ukraine's entire water and electricity grid.
Ukraine has what? Ukraine has Russian troop attrition on their side and US weapons.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 10:16 AM

There was a little video on Instagram, probably elsewhere now, of actor Sean Penn taking his Oscar (Academy Award) to Zelenskyy and it can be returned to him in Malibu once Ukraine wins the war.
Actor Sean Penn, who is making a documentary about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, has loaned one of his two Oscars to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and told him: “When you win, bring it back to Malibu.”

Zelenskyy’s office on Wednesday released the video of the encounter during Penn’s most recent visit to Ukraine, his third since the Feb. 24 start of the war. The president tweeted that the Oscar was “a symbol of faith in the victory of our country.”

Penn, who has been involved in numerous international humanitarian and anti-war efforts over the years, told Zelenskyy that every time he leaves Ukraine “I feel like a traitor.”

“But if I know this is here with you then I will feel better and stronger for the fights,” Penn said as he pulled the statuette from a black bag and placed it on a table in front of Zelenskyy. “When you win, bring it back to Malibu. Because I feel much better knowing there is a piece of me here.”


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 09:40 AM

Interesting talk on BBC radio 4

HARDtalk
Ben Hodges: Is Ukrainian victory inevitable?
Nov 2022

Stephen Sackur speaks to General Ben Hodges, former commander of the US army in Europe. He claims a Ukrainian victory in the war with Russia is inevitable, maybe within months. But given Putin’s pledge to use all means necessary to prevail, how does victory happen?

23 minutes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct32gq


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 03:22 PM

Putin doesn't go near windows.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 12:17 PM

I believe he's done. It just might not happen quickly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 08:14 PM

Violence is forever
It is all some need like fresh air
They can exsanguinate and not care
with bare hands or bombs it's the same
They have no fear that they might be blamed
Violence is forever

Violence never lies
the pain that torture buys
or the children that are fried
Violence is forever
Ukraine wrapped around his finger
Unlike men, Putin seems to linger

Men are mere mortals who
are going to their grave for him
He doesn't need passion
blood lust satisfies him?
Violence doesn't lie to Putin
For when he's gone

They'll luster on
Violence is forever, forever, forever
We will remember forever, forever
the disasters that last forever
forever forever
violence will go on


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 03:15 PM

The pipeline explosions are a real covert operation that is still shrouded in secrecy on all sides. The destroyed pipeline was not in use and should not be viewed as the main cause of European energy shortages. Such is the fog of war.

I wish I knew the facts too but how would it help?


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 10:29 AM

The would just blame it on Ukraine or 'The West'


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 10:23 AM

My guess is reading the news and reading history books.

Putin is really putting himself out there to offend his own people to such a degree that someone is going to figure out how to get past his hardened living space and dispatch him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 02:50 AM

where do you get your information from?


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 12:17 AM

Russia seems to be assembling her own coalition of support including some of the greatest ne'er do wells of the Middle East and now Iran besides. The downside it is hard to imagine enough support on the footsoldier side of things to form an occupying force should they succeed in pushing the Ukrainians back.

This has been observed to be a warmed over Battle of Stalingrad where the Russians are filling in for the Germans with the Ukrainians in the defense of their land, subject to the cruel abuse of civilians and non-military reprisal damage.

In the repulse of the German Army (Almost exactly 80 years ago as we write these words) the then Soviet forces found they could attack the 'helper' armies, furnished by Italians and Romanians. Their stomach for battle was not up to their German allies and they headed the Axis collapse. The intransigence of the German leader and his no surrender policy led to the loss of his entire Army. His job lasted only 2-1/2 more years before he permanently resigned, along with millions more of his followers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 09:58 PM

The Iranian drones look exactly like the motorized model planes I made 60 years ago. Mine had no explosives. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/20/eu-agrees-new-sanctions-over-iranian-drones-in-ukraine


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Rain Dog
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 05:57 PM

Easy to see how these things escalate.

Russian jet released missile near RAF aircraft over Black Sea

"A missile was released from a Russian aircraft near an unarmed RAF plane on patrol over the Black Sea, the defence secretary has said.

Ben Wallace said the "potentially dangerous" incident happened on 29 September in international airspace.

Russia said it was the result of a "technical malfunction".

UK patrols over the Black Sea were suspended but have now resumed and are escorted by a fighter jet following Russia's response.

Mr Wallace told MPs the UK was not treating the incident as a "deliberate escalation" by Russia but said it was a "reminder of quite how dangerous things can be when you choose to use your fighters in the manner that the Russians have done over many periods of time".

He was speaking in the Commons following his urgent trip to the US earlier this week where he discussed the security situation in Ukraine, including the threat of a nuclear attack, with his American counterpart.

The incident last month involved two Russian SU-27s and an unarmed RAF RC-135 Rivet Joint - an electronic surveillance plane.

Mr Wallace said that during an "interaction" one of the SU-27 aircraft "released a missile in the vicinity of the RAF Rivet Joint beyond visual range".

He said he expressed his concerns in a letter to the Russian defence minister.

The minister's reply on 10 October said an investigation had been conducted and found there had been a "technical malfunction" with the Russian plane, Mr Wallace said.

They also acknowledged the incident took place in international airspace, he added.

Mr Wallace suggested the Black Sea incident showed the Russian military were "not beyond making the wrong calculation or indeed deciding that the rules don't apply to them".

Luke Pollard, Labour's shadow defence minister, said: "This incident also acts as a serious reminder about the importance of avoiding escalation and miscalculation while continuing the UK's united support for Ukraine.""


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Sep 22 - 07:43 PM

Russians have some wonderful characteristics, but they are not held up as a standard of subtlety! Nor tact!

BTW, I'm not saying we Yanks are, either, but by comparison............


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 08:25 AM

You must know about Russain pirate gold on Adak Island Alaska


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 02:40 AM

Ah robomatic, this huge helicopter has a bright searchlight too, and a couple of times has woken me up during the night with its activities.
Since this village is usually completely silent at all times, it's a bit disconcerting!


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 05:51 PM

I used to meet the priest from Aniak in my days when my job took me to the Alaskan villages. He had had some interesting training experiences before they gave him his position. He had spent time with Alaskans on the coast who took him out to Little Diomede Island, which is not inhabited. They ambushed and harpooned a seal there and it fled to Big Diomede Island, one and a half miles away and in the then Soviet Union. They followed the animal and killed it and were butchering it on the shore with Father Tony rather nervously asking them if it was 'okay' to be where they were doing what they were doing. Then they saw a lot of faces popping up over the dunes (there was a military base on Big Diomede), and the Alaskans all told Father Tony it was indeed time to go home. They got back in the umiak and got out of there. I don't know if they were able to get the seal loaded or not. Anyhow, they got back to the village on the Alaska coast, but that night a huge helicopter stationed itself right between the islands and hovered there for hours, flashing its navigation lights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 11:13 AM

Russia is seeking more troops by expanding the age limit from ~18 to 60.
To declare a draft sounds like a bridge too far for Russains.
Loss of domestic support for Putin's war is a grave danger for Vlad.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Senoufou
Date: 25 Aug 22 - 03:04 AM

The biggest helicopter I've ever seen in my life has been hovering over our valley and village quite a lot over the past couple of days. It's jet black, looks as if it could transport several military people, and makes a loud swishing/thumping noise. I reckon it too is based at RAF Marham. All these new signs of military preparation make me rather nervous that War might break out!


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Aug 22 - 06:03 PM

We're putting a 'temporary' house member into Congress. One of the contenders is Sarah Palin who "could see Russia from her house." (NOT REALLY, that was Tina Fey on SNL, but she captured the Palin vibe well).

We used to have a couple of fighter jets in mid-Alaska where they could be scrambled from what appeared to be the middle of nowhere. Their runway was so short they had arresting cables like for aircraft carriers. As the Soviet Union became less threatful, they dispensed with this forward position. Wonder if they're thinking of bringing it back.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Senoufou
Date: 23 Aug 22 - 02:42 AM

I live not too far from RAF Marham in Norfolk, and I've noticed that recently there has been a lot of activity with their fighter jets zooming overhead on Exercises. I reckon they're getting themselves ready in case Russia attack us in some way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 22 Aug 22 - 06:44 PM

Years ago with no education on the subject I thought Ukrainians and Russians were substantially the same. The languages looked and sounded similar, and many of the traditional costumes and dances seemed the same. But well before Putin's diatribe about justifying Ukraine's lack of independence, I had been informed by Ukrainians of the very real distinction in language, culture, and to a great extent, religion. In fact, the Orthodox Christian world has been dividing between the Russian and Ukrainian primates in recent years.
The Russian invasion and brutality of tactics has greatly accelerated something that has been developing for generations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 12:17 PM

Odesa is a really interesting case. Russia is likely to state that it was founded by Catherine the Great, which is mainly true. However, it was only after Catherine's invasion and subsequent suppression of the Crimea and much of what is now Ukraine! History certainly has a way of repeating itself


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Aug 22 - 12:06 PM

Just reading this NY Times piece by Roger Cohen
with many great photographs by Laetitia Vancon about the current standing of the Ukrainian city of Odesa. (It may be impossible for me to adapt to the new spelling, it used to have 'ss' in the middle and to my eyes that looks proper). Anyhow, Odesa is a city with great history and I expected Russia to make a play for it, which it has. Despite it being well within Ukraine's current zones of occupation. Odesa is a city that has it all: history, multiple cultures living cheek by jowl, and fierce commerce. If Odesa went to the Russians, it would mean that Ukraine had no coast left, and finish it off as a nation of size and consequence.

I hadn't read a Roger Cohen story in some time. He's an English commentator, I believe, if it's the same one I remember.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 31 Jul 22 - 11:02 PM

So very much news is coming out all at once: NATO exerecises in Romania, Ukrainian prisoners being exploded in Russian detention, sophisticated Western weaponry still being delivered to and used by Ukraine. Russian recruitment difficulties.

It is looking like Russia is in need of a metaphor. The ones I come up with vary between painting herself in a corner and going out on a steeper and frailer precipice.

While it is in a phase of a 'war of attrition' what is being attrited is different for both sides, and the sourcing of fresh men and materiel is likewise different for both sides.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 03:31 PM

Grain in port rots faster than silo grain.

All 3 regional bridges to eastern Ukraine are blown up. Russain artillery outnumbers Ukraine by 15 to 1. Reports are dire for poor
Ukraine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 08:19 PM

With respect to the country's wishes, I'll refer to Türkiye from now on. We could do it for Kyiv, after all.

Yes, Türkiye needs to clean up its act on a number of fronts. As does Israel, the countries that support that regime's actions, Saudi Arabia, China, the US, the UK and so on ad nauseam. I don't say this in a spirit of whataboutery, just to point out that it's easy to make sideswipes at countries we don't happen to like very much whilst giving the others a bye. In any case, I would imagine that it's just as much in Türkiye's interests to sort the grain problem out as it is with many other countries. Erdogan doesn't strike me as the sort of man who would give a rat's bottom about his image in the west.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 07:41 PM

Turkey may be getting involved in that, I heard recently. Turkey needs to clean up its act on a number of fronts, so maybe this is an attempt toward that end.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jun 22 - 06:46 PM

As the bread basket of eastern Europe Ukraine and Putin are talking about a way to get grain out.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 03:13 PM

It is easy to criticize from the cheap seats.

Deciding what is provocation and what isn't, as far as what Putin says is too much - and not letting him get away with that - it's a difficult job.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 02:31 PM

FYI
Interesting article
in the Guardian about the current situation and the issues that have been gone over in this thread about whether this is effectively a proxy war and if so what are the responsibiliities of 'allies' in more and more dying in what is going to be at worst a stalemate and at best a war of attrition.

Note: The article is a Guardian article by Simon Tisdall but the link is through msn: just came out:


"Timid Biden condemns Ukrainians to an agonising war without end."


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 22 - 06:55 PM

Right now Ukraine is watching their soldiers pulling out of the steel works and surrendering to Russia. Sad day. All talks are off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 17 May 22 - 03:31 PM

Interesting. I did't look at the photo ops that carefully. Regardless, I think the presence of our politicos is worth something in itself. Same thing with the European leaders and the application for NATO membership projected for Finland and Sweden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 May 22 - 10:32 AM

If you saw the smiles that greeted Pelosi and Blinkin, they weren't present except for stiff formality when McConnell and Cornyn visited. Zelinskyy knows who let Trump get away with holding back financial support, and who made it look like the US didn't care if Russia invaded.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 16 May 22 - 02:31 PM

Ukraine has been host to many Western political leaders. The most 'hopeful' sign for me has been when U.S. House Speaker Mitch McConnell and a select group of Republican movers and shakers paid a visit to Kyiv and shared selfies with Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

So Putin has contributed to a certain amount of bipartisanship in US Gummint.

Politics, War, Unfamiliar Bedfellows etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 09:56 PM

Biden now gave Ukraine 20 billion plus in equipment and training in advanced new US weapons. Proxy wars helps the Pentagon judge their new stuff. The US military budget is 10 times Russia's so we're on the way to out spending them again. If this were chess Ukraine just got 2 more queens.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 22 - 07:05 PM

The link to Russia cutting off gas to Bulgaria and Poland was moved here from the war crimes thread due to protest - it doesn't really fit here either, but it doesn't need a whole new thread.

And researching the topic it looks like European countries have been looking over their shoulder at Russia for a long time, working out other fuel options. From The Economist:
The immediate effect of Russia’s latest move, which the eu has described as being a breach of contract, is limited in scope. Poland’s imports, of 10 billion cubic metres (bcm) a year, and Bulgaria’s, of 3 bcm, together account for just 8% of total eu imports. Poland’s contract with Russia was due to expire in December anyway, so the revenue Russia loses from breaching it is small. And although Bulgaria and Poland both relied on Russia for most of their gas imports, they may be able to cope without, says Xi Nan of Rystad Energy, a consultancy. Poland should start receiving gas from Norway in October. Nearby regasification terminals could help it import more liquefied natural gas (lng). Bulgaria is expected to start importing Azeri gas via Greece later this year.

Germany and Italy are most vulnerable as far as the volume they import from Russia, but that isn't their only or even largest source.
But Moscow is offering a compromise. Buyers would open two accounts with Gazprombank (a lender that is not under sanctions). They would pay euros into the first, and ask the bank to convert the sum into roubles and deposit the money into the second account, which would then be wired to Gazprom.

Many European countries dislike the plan, which would look as though they were giving in to Russian bullying and risks creating legal headaches. They will fall into three groups. One, which includes Belgium, Britain and Spain, imports little or no gas directly from Russia, and may refuse to compromise. Another group includes big buyers such as Germany and Italy, which will struggle to replace imports quickly; they may take the deal. A third set of waverers includes countries that are only partially dependent on Russia, and may also have contracts that are soon to expire.

Even this situation would create uncertainty. One country being cut off could have knock-on effects on others, for instance if gas transits through it to other places.

The result of a full-scale shutdown to Germany could lead to a global recession, according to the paper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 22 - 05:18 PM

The US defeated the Soviet Union and cold war by out spending them.
Now with a billion US dollars thrown at Ukraine we will see a longer obvious flag war with Russia and raise the stakes.
Out spending Russia again will have consequences.
I don't have the expertise to know what they will be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Russian war crimes
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Apr 22 - 01:42 PM

Russia shuts off gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria

Cutting off their nose to spite their face seems to be a Russian skill that they're polishing. They need cash, so stop delivering to countries that are dependent on the Russian supply. At least it's spring, hopefully the heating season is about over in those countries. Many other problems still present themselves. They can't spend dollars or Euros, but they've probably worked out another way to convert the cash.
Russia has cut off natural gas supplies to Poland and Bulgaria, dramatically escalating its response to Western sanctions imposed on Moscow over the war in Ukraine.

Russian state energy giant Gazprom said in a statement Wednesday that it had fully halted supplies to Polish gas company PGNiG and Bulgaria's Bulgargaz after they refused to meet a demand by Moscow to pay in rubles, rather than euros or dollars.

The European Commission described the decision to halt supplies as attempted "blackmail" and said it was coordinating a response among EU member states.


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Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Apr 22 - 04:18 PM

Fascist is a useful word. Thing is, I've heard lots of people being called fascists who are not actual fascists. There's something lazy and unthinking about sticking glib labels on people. With a bit of effort and a few more well-chosen words we can easily say what we really think, if we're prepared to make the effort.


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