BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Feb 25 - 07:23 AM

> but Trump is not talking about that.

He also carefully avoided saying he'd implement Project 2025, waited till he'd been enthroned, then *bingo* ---

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 19 Feb 25 - 07:10 AM

True, DtG: they just swapped czars (or tsars). Communism has only ever been the front-end.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Feb 25 - 06:37 AM

Russia is no0 longer a communist state

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 25 - 06:19 AM

Like post war Germany being divided into communist East Germany and demoratic West Germany, Ukraine could be sliced up with COMMUNIST East Ukraine, if Russia gets their way.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Feb 25 - 12:09 AM

You can bet that a secret deal was made so Trump would get a share of mineral rights as well as payoffs for dropping sanctions against Russia but Trump is not talking about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Feb 25 - 11:58 PM

Trump has declared that Ukraine started the war and has had 3 years to enter cease fire talks. He also has voiced approval of every single Russian demand including Russia having a part in new Ukraine elections
AND have Ukraine give over 50% of all mineral rights in perpetuity.

Russia did not have or need a single concession in the Trump-Putin 'peace' talks.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Feb 25 - 03:23 PM

"You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war." - Winston Churchill

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Feb 25 - 11:30 AM

.... I had difficulty working out which headbanger you were on about, mayomick; I count three, with a fourth sitting back, giggling quietly.

.... Then, the applause having come to an end, the company took up their cards and continued the game that had been interrupted, and the animals crept silently away.

But they had not gone twenty yards when they stopped short. An uproar of voices was coming from the farmhouse. They rushed back and looked through the window again. Yes, a violent quarrel was in progress. There were shoutings, bangings on the table, sharp suspicious glances, furious denials. The source of the trouble appeared to be that Napoleon and Mr Pilkington had each played an ace of spades simultaneously.

Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.

      -- George Orwell: Animal Farm, closing paragraphs

Prophetic PS: Just noticed that our copy of Amimal Farm has adverts for other Penguin titles at the end. At the top, one page bears "NINETEEN EIGHTY-FOUR"; at the foot is "NOT FOR SALE IN THE USA".

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Feb 25 - 11:19 AM

Turnip holding "peace talks" without Ukraine or Europe present - you know what this is. Trump is punishing Zelenskyy because it was the call to him that resulted in the first impeachment. He hasn't said so out loud, but it's clear he's getting even.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: mayomick
Date: 18 Feb 25 - 09:46 AM

I’m sure most people here would agree , Robomatic . A huge juggernaut of a nuclear-armed bus driven by a genocidal , maniacal reincarnation of Adolf Hitler but , fear not plucky Ukraine, we’ve got your back lol.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Feb 25 - 05:39 PM

mayomick: there is so much wrong with that I dont know where to start.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: mayomick
Date: 17 Feb 25 - 03:04 PM

Robomatic They walked in front of the bus after your people gave them the green light, assuring Ukrainians they
would be safe . The bus driver did honk several times

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Feb 25 - 04:14 PM

I wonder how certain people holding certain positions can be so careless about certain facts that they can be considered reliably unreliable.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Feb 25 - 06:59 AM

From CBS news 2 days ago

A plane carrying Secretary of State Marco Rubio bound for Munich, Germany, was forced to return to Maryland late Thursday night due to a "mechanical issue," officials said.

Vance had a similar issue back with a flight back in August last year but that had nothing to do with either Ukraine or Munich

Facts are important.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Feb 25 - 06:45 AM

> Did you hear JD Vance's plane failed in midair
> and had to return to Munich?

.... OK, I give in: what's the punchline?

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Feb 25 - 04:28 PM

The Trump Regime has thrown Ukraine under the bus. Bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Feb 25 - 02:33 PM

Vance (nee Bowman/Hamel) and Hegseth are so green that no negotiations will happen, just the sabotage of Ukraine in its struggle.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 25 - 10:48 AM

Thank you Mr. F. I was hoping this thread would return.
Did you hear JD Vance's plane failed in midair and had to return to Munich?

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Feb 25 - 10:36 AM

.... Here we go again: Vlad the Handler has had a quiet word with his controlee, who promptly gave away Ukraine's future. Inevitable, and inviting entirely-apt comparisons with 1938*, but no less despicable.

Thought for the Day: There's no such thing as a cut-price war. If you're not prepared to pay in full up front, the interest rates will be extortionate.

* Even in the English papers.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 12:37 PM

Good heavens! I never realised he’s South African.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 12:16 PM

https://www.usa.gov/requirements-for-presidential-candidates

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 11:13 AM

You’ll need to explain that to me, SRS.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 11:09 AM

As much as he might wish to, Trump can't change the Constitution so Musk can never be president. That is hard-wired.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 06:38 AM

Musk will be the next POTUS, after tRump finishes his term or, preferably, pegs out whilst he’s in office (and, hopefully, sooner rather than later).

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 24 - 11:21 AM

Joined at the hip, I suspect he means. Until Trump tires of not being the richest man in the world and boots Musk from the team.

Musk's family business office manager is doing the interviews for hiring high-level people at the State Department. That person has no qualifications for doing the interviews. And Musk's mother (a former fashion model as her skill set) is sitting in on some of Musk's meetings with Trump and whoever else he isn't qualified to meet.

The Department of State would normally be doing diplomatic stuff in the future. You may remember that a lot of them were interviewed during the first Trump impeachment hearing when Trump was charged with trying to get Ukraine's then brand-new president Zelenskyy to make up stuff about Joe Biden. Go full circle, the FBI "informant" Smirnov (who lied about all that Burisma stuff) this week admitted that he lied in that case and will get time served. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/16/alexander-smirnov-pleads-guilty-joe-hunter-biden

In real news, Ukraine admits to having assassinated the Russian general who is responsible for the war crimes of using chemical weapons on combatants in Ukraine. Ukraine Says It Killed General Who Led Russia’s Nuclear Defense Force
A Ukrainian official said Kyiv was responsible for the assassination in Moscow of Gen. Igor Kirillov, the chief of Russia’s radioactive, chemical and biological defense forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 24 - 04:07 AM

???

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 09:31 PM

Like space-time, Trump-Musk is now a combined unison.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 03:56 PM

I've only read the first of the Colossus novels, and though I can't remember what now, they are somewhat different, but both effective. I'll have to see if I can find the others. Who knows, maybe there will be interest in following up in modern dramas (or perhaps a game maker will go with the premise of any or all of these stories.)

Watching places like Ukraine right now as the Doomsday Clock ticks closer to midnight - having fools like Trump and Putin with a finger on the button, who knows what could happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 01:06 PM

Just re-watched 'Colossus, the Forbin Project'. Enjoyed the historical difference between the movie of 1971 and the political/ social adjustments that have occurred since. There was way more freedom of speech back in the 70s, for better and for worse. There is a lot of stuff that was predictive in the movie, but it's not unique to the movie. Many people were predicting the kinds of dangers we're facing, One thing that was not in the movi was the concept of computer viruses and worms. I distinctly remember the early signs of that from the early 80s. An English computer kid told me about 'rabbits and foxes', programs that existed only to multiply themselves, and other programs that would find and neutralize them.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 08:46 PM

robomatic, I'm sorry about your friend.

Odd as it might seem, comparing the Ukraine situation to various science fiction dystopian stories (written and on film) seems to fit.

Years ago my kids and I did movie nights with films that were interesting and/or important. I had them sit through 2001: A Space Odyssey and my son was just writhing and "mom, what is this about?" as the living room scene goes by. But as it concluded they paid attention. Later when he was at the university he asked me to send him my copy because he wanted to use it for a writing project (and didn't want to sit in the university library to watch the copy they had available). Anyway, right now Zelenskyy is asking Hal to open the pod bay doors.

BTW: I didn't realize the Colossus novel, cum film, was the first in a trilogy (see the link above to the Wikipedia entry for the novel and follow the link to the author). I'll have to look into those.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 07:52 PM

I was thinking of starting a thread separating 'end times' movies from politics but well, here we are.

I DID see Colossus, the Forbin Project. Always had a soft spot for it because I seem to remember OUR conputer and THEIR computer taking over. On that theme there are some nice variations such as the more recent (but not the MOST recent) Outer Limits vision of computer operated ships in space using humans as slaves (HUMAN OPERATORS S05E07)

But the reason I almost started a new thread was the appearance of latter day movies and shows such as:
Leave The World Behind with Julia Roberts
Fallout (the series) that I just started, and probably needs its own discussion space if anyone wants to go there.

Getting back to Ukraine, at this point I want to commemorate a lovely Ukrainian friend of mine, who mentored me in Winter Camping, and who I found out way too late had passed away before I could catch up with her and get some education on the cultures of Eastern Europe about which she had a dense knowledge base.


Canada has long had a large and notable Ukrainian population with a large cultural presence. I got to meet some of them many years ago at an amazing yearly get together of American Russians and Ukrainians celebrating their interwoven musical cultures (The organization was and I hope IS known as the BDAA. Maybe there are Mudcatters familiar). There is a famous 'giant egg' sculpture in Vegreville Egg Alberta.

Forgive me for running a bit amok.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Dec 24 - 12:14 PM

There is a documentary out this month called Meme Wars. Folk humor strikes back set in Ukraine about the Russian invasion and forward.

Meme Wars. Early on in the film the woman being interviewed describes "memes as antibodies" - a defense mechanism.

From the YouTube site commentary:

In the modern world, memes are not just entertainment. They can define our reality. And Ukrainian memes of a full-scale invasion are a unique phenomenon. Even researchers from Stanford University are studying it.

The documentary's creators talked to the authors of the most famous memes and found out how they had the courage to make jokes during the darkest times. A Ukrainian diplomat tells how he used memes to get weapons for Ukraine. The founder of the most massive Ukrainian Twitter meme community revealed how memes strike not only on the information frontline, but also on the real battlefield. Film creators with Ukrainian and worldwide leading researchers has redefined the role of memes in the Ukrainian resistance in the most dramatic war of the XXI century.

I haven't seen the whole thing yet, but it looks interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 12:09 PM

> Errant thought: Maybe AI has come along at just the right time to take
> over, a la Day the Earth Stood Still.

I'll see you that, and raise you Colossus: The Forbin Project. And that's when the machine notices the human; somewhere in the last day or so I've read of a woman being the victim of a hit-and-run, after which a driver-free taxi parked itself on top of her. But that methinks is a rant for another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 06:36 PM

Yeah, robo, that's the one.

I dunno about any others except the good one with Gene Barry.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 04:27 PM

The only thing worse than the remake of TDTESS is the remake of War of the Worlds.

Well, maybe not the *only* thing, but you get the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 12:22 PM

I recently got a copy of Colossus: The Forbin Project. It is a little sleeper, not as big as Parallax View but along the same lines of a machine (or political/oligarch machine) in charge.

The lines are much clearer in the Ukrainian struggle against invasion by Russia, and Putin could never be mistaken as the representative of a maligned population striking out.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 02:59 PM

I thought Gene Barry version was pretty good, partly because it was also so very 50s.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 05:22 PM

There have been so many versions of TWOTW even recently that you got to be more specifimic. If you're talking about the Spielberg 2005 version scripted by Koepp and Friedman, I am way ahead of you. The young Dakota Fanning probably damaged her voicebox she did so much screaming. I have a soft spot for most of the other versions.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 02:56 PM

I recently re-watched Day the Earth Stood Still and found it has held up very well. Can't emphasize that the 50s version* is the one to watch not the utterly vapid remake about ten years ago.

I had been trying to remember "Colossus, the Forbin Project." which I saw a couple generations ago, that's how old it was (1970). My memories of it aren't so clear, but I'd also like to mention an episode called "Human Operators" which was done in 1999 as part of the reboot of Outer Limits.

*While the movie was 'based' on a short story from the 30s-40s called "Return of the Master", it was one of the few movies to go well beyond its source material. I think it's damn near as perfect a movie as has ever been made, similar in its progressivism as one of my non-SF favorites, "Inherit the Wind."

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 09:19 PM

Zelensky, at NATO headquarters, denounces Putin and Hamas as terrorists

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky made a surprise appearance at NATO headquarters on Wednesday, claiming the world stage at a moment when a new war is dominating headlines and comparing Russian President Vladimir Putin to Hamas terrorists.

Though he has addressed the alliance remotely from Kyiv before, it was his first visit to NATO’s steel-and-glass headquarters since Putin’s invasion, and it came a day after he acknowledged in an interview that the new war in Israel could distract global attention from Russia’s war against Ukraine. While foreign military support continues to flow, Ukrainian officials and NATO allies have raised concern about Republican lawmakers in Washington seeking to stifle additional aid packages.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 02:02 PM

Thanks for re-opening this thread. With the fresh Middle East horribleness and the prospect of another Winter of war in Ukraine right now I've got "Green Fields of France" looping in my brain for the time being: "For Willie McBride it all happened again, and again and again and again and again."
Another thread had a brief but notable point: "We do not lack for opinions. We lack for insight." Personally I've had my fill of insight, also.
Errant thought: Maybe AI has come along at just the right time to take over, a la Day the Earth Stood Still.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Oct 23 - 02:59 PM

I thought Gene Barry version was pretty good, partly because it was also so very 50s.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 06:36 PM

Yeah, robo, that's the one.

I dunno about any others except the good one with Gene Barry.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 05:22 PM

There have been so many versions of TWOTW even recently that you got to be more specifimic. If you're talking about the Spielberg 2005 version scripted by Koepp and Friedman, I am way ahead of you. The young Dakota Fanning probably damaged her voicebox she did so much screaming. I have a soft spot for most of the other versions.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Lighter
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 04:27 PM

The only thing worse than the remake of TDTESS is the remake of War of the Worlds.

Well, maybe not the *only* thing, but you get the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 02:56 PM

I recently re-watched Day the Earth Stood Still and found it has held up very well. Can't emphasize that the 50s version* is the one to watch not the utterly vapid remake about ten years ago.

I had been trying to remember "Colossus, the Forbin Project." which I saw a couple generations ago, that's how old it was (1970). My memories of it aren't so clear, but I'd also like to mention an episode called "Human Operators" which was done in 1999 as part of the reboot of Outer Limits.

*While the movie was 'based' on a short story from the 30s-40s called "Return of the Master", it was one of the few movies to go well beyond its source material. I think it's damn near as perfect a movie as has ever been made, similar in its progressivism as one of my non-SF favorites, "Inherit the Wind."

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 12:22 PM

I recently got a copy of Colossus: The Forbin Project. It is a little sleeper, not as big as Parallax View but along the same lines of a machine (or political/oligarch machine) in charge.

The lines are much clearer in the Ukrainian struggle against invasion by Russia, and Putin could never be mistaken as the representative of a maligned population striking out.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 Oct 23 - 12:09 PM

> Errant thought: Maybe AI has come along at just the right time to take
> over, a la Day the Earth Stood Still.

I'll see you that, and raise you Colossus: The Forbin Project. And that's when the machine notices the human; somewhere in the last day or so I've read of a woman being the victim of a hit-and-run, after which a driver-free taxi parked itself on top of her. But that methinks is a rant for another thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 02:02 PM

Thanks for re-opening this thread. With the fresh Middle East horribleness and the prospect of another Winter of war in Ukraine right now I've got "Green Fields of France" looping in my brain for the time being: "For Willie McBride it all happened again, and again and again and again and again."
Another thread had a brief but notable point: "We do not lack for opinions. We lack for insight." Personally I've had my fill of insight, also.
Errant thought: Maybe AI has come along at just the right time to take over, a la Day the Earth Stood Still.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 09:19 PM

Zelensky, at NATO headquarters, denounces Putin and Hamas as terrorists

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky made a surprise appearance at NATO headquarters on Wednesday, claiming the world stage at a moment when a new war is dominating headlines and comparing Russian President Vladimir Putin to Hamas terrorists.

Though he has addressed the alliance remotely from Kyiv before, it was his first visit to NATO’s steel-and-glass headquarters since Putin’s invasion, and it came a day after he acknowledged in an interview that the new war in Israel could distract global attention from Russia’s war against Ukraine. While foreign military support continues to flow, Ukrainian officials and NATO allies have raised concern about Republican lawmakers in Washington seeking to stifle additional aid packages.