BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jul 23 - 01:01 PM

This link goes to a page that updates so you may have to scroll down to the headline Russia’s accusation after the bridge attack renews attention on sea drones.

Russia Fires Drones and Missiles at Southern Ukraine

Depending on how they are operated, the boats, also called marine drones or unmanned surface vessels, can be hard to detect. They can carry enough fuel to travel far and enough explosives to detonate with power.

And while they might cost in the low hundreds of thousands of dollars, they can do millions of dollars in damage, embarrassing the Kremlin and, as evidenced by the harsh comments of pro-Russian military bloggers after Monday’s attack, drawing further criticism of a military leadership roiled by last month’s mercenary uprising.

“The problem for the Russians is that there’s no sure way to defend itself against these boats,” said Sam Bendett, an expert in drones and Russia’s military at CNA, a research institute in Virginia. . . .If two waterborne drones did detonate explosives at the Kerch Strait Bridge, Mr. Bendett said, they would probably have been at least 15 feet long and packed with hundreds of pounds of explosives, along with the fuel, probably diesel or gasoline, for the voyage.

The vessels would probably have been launched from land, Mr. Bendett said, and guided by satellite, perhaps via the Starlink system that is widely used for internet access in Ukraine. He said they would have traveled across the Black Sea at a speed slow enough to minimize their wake and foil radar detection.

No video of the actual event, just views from vehicles on the bridge deck or perhaps highway cameras.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Rain Dog
Date: 17 Jul 23 - 11:16 AM

There is never a shortage of opinions.
There is a lack of insight.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Jul 23 - 10:13 AM

Linking to headlines is a fine thing but insight and opinion into the Ukraine war providing the opportunity to test AI warfare should not be censored. It is already a full scale drone war. We could see remote human control become fully autonomous killing, put a pin in it.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jul 23 - 02:27 AM

Vital bridge linking Crimea with Russia damaged, Russian Transport Ministry says.

Again - I thought it was hit pretty hard the last time. It seems to have been back up and running quickly until just now.

Sergey Aksenov, the Russia-appointed head of Crimea, said an “emergency incident” had been reported, halting traffic on the bridge, which serves as a vital logistical node for Moscow’s military in its war against Ukraine.

Two strikes were allegedly carried out on the bridge around 3 a.m. local time, damaging part of the bridge, according to the Telegram channel Grey Zone, which supports the Wagner mercenary group led by Yevgeny Prigozhin.

Explosions were heard around 3:04 a.m. and 3:20 a.m. local time, Grey Zone and popular Crimean blogger ‘TalipoV Online Z’ said on Telegram. . . . The nearly 12-mile bridge, also known as the Kerch Bridge, is the longest in Europe and carries both road and rail traffic.

The bridge was severely damaged on October 8 when a fuel tanker exploded and destroyed a large section of the road.

"After the October 8 blast, Russia quickly set about repairs to the span. It was fully reopened to traffic in February. Earlier this month, Ukraine’s Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar made what appeared to be the clearest admission yet that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the October attack."

This is a developing story, more to follow.

A truck exploded and then train cars exploded. And Russia is surprised? Really?

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Jul 23 - 01:04 PM

The Wagner group has moved into Belarus and are "now acting as military instructors for the country's territorial defence forces."

Wagner mercenaries have arrived in Belarus, Ukraine confirms

Meanwhile, it's about time to renegotiate or extend the Black Sea grain deal (brokered by the UN, and largely administered by Turkey).

The Ukraine grain deal is about to expire — here’s what it means for supply chains

The United Nations-brokered Black Sea Grain Initiative that has allowed Ukraine to safely export 32 million metric tons of food is set to expire on July 18, and serious doubts have been raised as to whether Russia will allow it to continue.

The deal, to date, has facilitated the export of enough food to feed nearly 150 million people for a year, and its expiration would likely exacerbate an already severe global food crisis. While the international community should continue to exert pressure on Russia to extend the agreement, it should also use this as an opportunity to reinvigorate efforts to increase the resilience of food supply chains.

Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022 triggered a global food security crisis. Ukraine had historically been one of the world’s largest grain exporters, but the country’s grain production and exports plummeted following the Russian invasion. This contributed to a spike in global food prices and heightened levels of food insecurity in much of the world.

The UN-brokered grain deal — agreed to by Turkey, Russia, Ukraine and the UN in July 2022 — was an important step in addressing the crisis. The deal sought to mitigate the war’s impact on global food security by establishing a maritime humanitarian corridor as well as a registration and inspection scheme to facilitate the export of grain, related foodstuffs and fertilizers from three key Ukrainian ports. Despite the global humanitarian impact, Russia has declared in recent weeks that there are “no grounds” to extend the agreement past July 18.

In the Tit-for-Tat of war, Putin says Russia also has cluster bombs and will deploy them if Ukraine does. Some sources say Russia has already used them. Putin says Russia has ‘sufficient’ cluster munitions and may retaliate if Ukraine uses them

Landmines remain the biggest hurdle to moving forward for Ukraine in the summer Counteroffensive: Small, Hidden and Deadly: Mines Stymie Ukraine’s Counteroffensive
To gain ground, Ukrainian forces have to make their way through a variety and density of Russian land mines they never imagined.

It was a grisly scene of bloody limbs and crumpled vehicles as a series of Russian mines exploded across a field in southern Ukraine.

One Ukrainian soldier stepped on a mine and tumbled onto the grass in the buffer zone between the two armies. Nearby lay other Ukrainian troops, their legs in tourniquets, waiting for medical evacuation, according to videos posted online and the accounts of several soldiers involved.

Soon, an armored vehicle arrived to rescue them. A medic jumped out to treat the wounded and knelt on ground he deemed safe — only to trigger another mine with his knee.

Five weeks into a counteroffensive that even Ukrainian officials say is off to a halting start, interviews with commanders and soldiers fighting along the front indicate the slow progress comes down to one major problem: land mines.

The nasty stuff is there, but this thread does not need side trips into stuff that just starts arguments on threads. One war at a time.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Charmion
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 08:07 AM

The toad beneath the harrow knows
Exactly where each toothpoint goes.
The butterfly upon the road
Preaches contentment to that toad.

Sitting here in safe, comfortable Canada, I do not feel qualified to judge any decision the Ukrainian government might make at this time. They are doing their utmost in a terrible situation, and if anyone understands the long-term legacy of total war it’s the Ukrainian people.

---

Ugly bickering has been deleted. Let's let Charmion have the last word and call it a day. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 06:30 AM

MaJoC's €0.02 on clusterbombs:

Stilly correctly identifies the awful calculus of war: it's the Ukrainians who will have to live with the consequences. At least the US said ahead of time what they were about to do, rather than it being found out years or decades later.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 05:58 AM

And you're sure that your black-and-white binary choice is the key to either winning or losing? Wars don't generally work that way, do they? Putin is already using cluster bombs. Ukrainians adopting them would be a serious escalation. Putin has the ability to escalate in plenty of other ways. You think that escalation wins wars? Well we could always use nukes...

Weapons that can put civilians in harm's way for decades after the war ends are simply immoral and should not be used. Why do you think we want to rid ourselves of chemical and biological weapons?

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jul 23 - 01:45 AM

Fine. Don't offer Ukraine the stuff they're asking for and watch Putin overrun the country.

Your call.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 11:08 PM

A cause embraced by Lady Di was the landmine issue.
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a12021518/princess-diana-landmines/

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 08:12 PM

I'm not accusing anyone here of defending them. But a study of the baleful history of the harm done to people who had never involved themselves in conflicts - civilians, women, children if you like - should at least persuade you to condemn them out of hand. We did that when Israel was using white phosphorus in Gaza, didn't we? If warfare expediently involves the use of weapons that can't help but target civilians, and target them for many decades to come, then we should condemn that use out of hand, not be discussing whether it might give one side or the other the advantage. Failure to condemn cluster bombs (not "munitions", not "ordnance") should cause us to question our own sanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 07:24 PM

I didn't defend them. I stated UKRAINE'S argument for them. You certainly can take any statement and read it wrong and then make pronouncements about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Jul 23 - 07:07 PM

Who is the one defending cluster bombs?
Unimaginable trades are made in war.
20,000 Sophie choices is a hell of a trade.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 23 - 08:54 PM

It is a surprise that these would come into play. At least we can be glad the last of the chemical weapons have been destroyed.

The justification that Ukraine gives for asking for them is that they know the place will be a mess of unexploded ordnance after the war, and they fully expect to clean up cluster bomb duds as well as all of the duds that the Russians have lobbed at them.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Jul 23 - 07:16 PM

The news of the cluster munitions raised my hackles. I am wondering if the story of supplying these is part of the intense spin coming from all sides (no pun intended).

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 23 - 08:11 AM

The US supply of artillery ammunition has run out in Ukraine. However we have lots of outlawed cluster bombs, so out they come from 'safe' storage.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 23 - 11:14 AM

I recently read an article about how this popular writer got herself trained to report war crimes. Her death is one tragedy on top of another.

Ukrainian writer Victoria Amelina dies after being wounded in Kramatorsk strike

The award-winning Ukrainian novelist, essayist and war crimes researcher Victoria Amelina, who was wounded last week in a Russian missile strike on a restaurant, has died from her injuries.

Tributes to both Amelina’s activism and her writing poured in from across the worlds of literature and politics, after PEN Ukraine announced she had died in a hospital in Dnipro, surrounded by friends and family.

Amelina, 37, won the Joseph Conrad literary prize in 2021 for work’s including Dom’s Dream Kingdom and had been nominated for other major awards including the European Union Prize for Literature.

She largely set aside her writing after the full-scale Russian invasion of 2022, to focus on documenting war crimes and working with children on or near the frontline.

“Victoria Amelina was one of kindest and most charitable Ukrainian writers who did much more for others than for herself,” said the novelist Andrey Kurkov on Twitter. “She founded two literary festivals, in New York (Donbas) and in Kramatorsk, where her life was stopped by a Russian missile.”

Her work included unearthing the diary of Volodymyr Vakulenko, a fellow writer who was illegally detained and killed by Russian soldiers in the city of Izium in early 2022. The diary, which was buried in his garden, served as a real-time document of Russian atrocities.

Human rights groups say the attack that killed Amelina, on a popular restaurant crowded with civilians in eastern Kramatorsk, was also a war crime. Thirteen people died and more than 60 were injured.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Feb 23 - 06:32 PM

Yevgeny Prigozhin- How a caterer ingratiated himself with Putin

Currently playing today on Fresh Air

Today starts the second year of the war initiated by Russia's full invasion.

Russia and her minions have proven to be a nest of screw-ups, but that has not stopped their ability to inflict great destruction and ongoing pain on many Ukrainian civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 23 - 07:20 AM

Putin spoke today for 90 minutes about America starting the Ukraine war along with Nazi Jews. No mention of Biden or that he is the only President to travel alone into a war zone this century.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Feb 23 - 11:31 AM

Putin expected to announce his new president of Ukraine tomorrow.
Instead Biden was in Ukraine today. Russain TV has a countdown clock on the Putin 'victory' speech.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Feb 23 - 10:08 AM

That long night has now lasted a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Nov 22 - 06:47 PM

Fresh Air, Terry Gross is interviewing Luke Harding of The Guardian, who has recently published: "Invasion" about Russia and Ukraine's current war.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Nov 22 - 02:35 PM

DtG:

I do not have mind reading capaility. Putin may e everything you say, but he is on record as saying (2005):

“First and foremost it is worth acknowledging that the demise of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the century,” Putin said. “As for the Russian people, it became a genuine tragedy. Tens of millions of our fellow citizens and countrymen found themselves beyond the fringes of Russian territory.

“The epidemic of collapse has spilled over to Russia itself,” he said, referring to separatist movements such as those in Chechnya.

Putin’s statements were some of his strongest language to date about the Soviet collapse and come a month before the nation celebrates the 60th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, a conflict Russians call the “Great Patriotic War.”

Now, whether or nor Putin is expressing the loss of a unifying economic/ political doctrine which underlay the driving philosophy of Soviet Communism, or lamenting the loss of the power base of the hegemony held by the U.S.S.R. over Eastern Europe and world wide client states, his background as a Soviet citizen and apparatchick was entirely under this system and formed his internal model for his political world as a whole. The hypocrisy of his statements and actions is consistent with that model.

Meanwhile he is losing out on a proud set of World War 2 (Great Patriotic War) commemmoratives: The Battle of Stalingrad which is passing through the 80 year zone since the great Operation Uranus counterattack on 19 November 1942 under Zhukov and fast speeding toward the final entrapment and capture of Army Group South under Paulus on 2 February 1943. If Russia were not making their name a pariah right now they could be celebrating with former allies, or commemmorating iwth former foes as well. A pretty major propaganda loss and a potential time of healing between peoples as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 22 - 05:35 PM

https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/russian-roulette-zaporizhzhia-nuclear-power-plant

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 03:07 AM

I should have added Truss and Sunak to the UK list. I don't know enough about Biden.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 22 - 03:05 AM

Sorry Robomatic. I don't understand your point. Putin is no communist. He is a thug wanting to line his own pockets at any cost. He is about as interested in the welfare of his people as Trump or Johnson are!

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 09:37 PM

I think the overall purpose is to knockout Russia's capacity to deliver the will of Putin at the drop of a kopeck. Until he is unable to control mass weapons he can stir up trouble at a tweet.

Someone (maybe it's us) is footing a big big bill to this end. We do not believe he is going to pull his own punches. He is a snake who needs to be de-fanged, just like the Communists, of which he is a poor sick reminder.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:55 PM

Piece in the Guardian: Explosion in Poland unlikely to spark escalation even if caused by Russia
(Julian Borger, World affairs editor)

Let's keep cool for now.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:12 PM

Since this started, I've had a horrible feeling that it's only a matter of time...
(I hope I'm wrong.)

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:09 PM

The radio folks today were saying that 4 miles across the border was likely a mistake; the Russians haven't been the model of accuracy when it comes to firing missiles. NATO is alert and they are waiting for Poland to report out on what they find at the site.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 06:03 PM

So Putin has now targeted a NATO member in a military attack NATO is now bound by treaty to retaliate. Oh well, it was a nice planet while it lasted.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Nov 22 - 02:50 PM

Reports (carefully stated to be unconfirmed atm) that, during the hail of Russian missiles on Ukraine today, one or two hit a farmhouse just over the border in Poland, and two people were killed. Tin hats time, people.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 04:57 PM

These are interesting times. I'm sure of only a few things, mostly obvious. I think Putin is not and has not been very sane. He is more like Trump than we dared fear, emotionally dependent on perceptions and corrupt to the core. He also stores resentment from beyond his personal experience, and is at least a mean S.O.B. as Saudi prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS). Dying of intense radiation poisoning has to have been more horrible than being literally buthcered and paracel-packed for repatriation. o

Currently we only know that whateve the Russians and Putin are declaring and planning, their words don't match what they are planning and probably not what they are currently even understanding as the truth. I believe Zelenskyy has pretty much stated the same about the Russians. Oddly enough, during the Big War, when the Russians turned the tables on one of Hitler's Armies (Stalingrad, almost exactly 80 years ago, they had to alternate between actual military announcements that could be believed and straightforward military accretion of forces (Otherwise who would ever believe them?). This is still what seems to be working for the Ukrainians. So we do not know specifically what is going on, and we are unlikely to know for some time.

Right now the Russians best chance of getting out of this with a minimum of losses is to pray that the U.S. Republicans are bent weirdly enough to support them or betray Ukraine, mainly to spite U.S. policy. But Biden seems to have his head screwed on straight no matter how shaky he may appear, and I'll bet that Putin is just the other way around, making every effort to appear lone and powerful but actually exposed under the ridiculousness attempt to appear Staling-esque.

Maybe it's time to revue "The Death of Stalin".

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 12:29 PM

Penn sounds a little superstitious with his lucky rabbit's foot Oscar.
Everyone is quarky. Sean is an up quark.

Russia can destroy Ukraine's entire water and electricity grid.
Ukraine has what? Ukraine has Russian troop attrition on their side and US weapons.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 22 - 10:16 AM

There was a little video on Instagram, probably elsewhere now, of actor Sean Penn taking his Oscar (Academy Award) to Zelenskyy and it can be returned to him in Malibu once Ukraine wins the war.

Actor Sean Penn, who is making a documentary about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, has loaned one of his two Oscars to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and told him: “When you win, bring it back to Malibu.”

Zelenskyy’s office on Wednesday released the video of the encounter during Penn’s most recent visit to Ukraine, his third since the Feb. 24 start of the war. The president tweeted that the Oscar was “a symbol of faith in the victory of our country.”

Penn, who has been involved in numerous international humanitarian and anti-war efforts over the years, told Zelenskyy that every time he leaves Ukraine “I feel like a traitor.”

“But if I know this is here with you then I will feel better and stronger for the fights,” Penn said as he pulled the statuette from a black bag and placed it on a table in front of Zelenskyy. “When you win, bring it back to Malibu. Because I feel much better knowing there is a piece of me here.”

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 09:40 AM

Interesting talk on BBC radio 4

HARDtalk
Ben Hodges: Is Ukrainian victory inevitable? Nov 2022

Stephen Sackur speaks to General Ben Hodges, former commander of the US army in Europe. He claims a Ukrainian victory in the war with Russia is inevitable, maybe within months. But given Putin’s pledge to use all means necessary to prevail, how does victory happen?

23 minutes

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3ct32gq

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 03:22 PM

Putin doesn't go near windows.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Oct 22 - 12:17 PM

I believe he's done. It just might not happen quickly.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 08:14 PM

Violence is forever
It is all some need like fresh air
They can exsanguinate and not care
with bare hands or bombs it's the same
They have no fear that they might be blamed
Violence is forever

Violence never lies
the pain that torture buys
or the children that are fried
Violence is forever
Ukraine wrapped around his finger
Unlike men, Putin seems to linger

Men are mere mortals who
are going to their grave for him
He doesn't need passion
blood lust satisfies him?
Violence doesn't lie to Putin
For when he's gone

They'll luster on
Violence is forever, forever, forever
We will remember forever, forever
the disasters that last forever
forever forever
violence will go on

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 03:15 PM

The pipeline explosions are a real covert operation that is still shrouded in secrecy on all sides. The destroyed pipeline was not in use and should not be viewed as the main cause of European energy shortages. Such is the fog of war.

I wish I knew the facts too but how would it help?

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 10:29 AM

The would just blame it on Ukraine or 'The West'

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 10:23 AM

My guess is reading the news and reading history books.

Putin is really putting himself out there to offend his own people to such a degree that someone is going to figure out how to get past his hardened living space and dispatch him.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 02:50 AM

where do you get your information from?

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Oct 22 - 12:17 AM

Russia seems to be assembling her own coalition of support including some of the greatest ne'er do wells of the Middle East and now Iran besides. The downside it is hard to imagine enough support on the footsoldier side of things to form an occupying force should they succeed in pushing the Ukrainians back.

This has been observed to be a warmed over Battle of Stalingrad where the Russians are filling in for the Germans with the Ukrainians in the defense of their land, subject to the cruel abuse of civilians and non-military reprisal damage.

In the repulse of the German Army (Almost exactly 80 years ago as we write these words) the then Soviet forces found they could attack the 'helper' armies, furnished by Italians and Romanians. Their stomach for battle was not up to their German allies and they headed the Axis collapse. The intransigence of the German leader and his no surrender policy led to the loss of his entire Army. His job lasted only 2-1/2 more years before he permanently resigned, along with millions more of his followers.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 09:58 PM

The Iranian drones look exactly like the motorized model planes I made 60 years ago. Mine had no explosives. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/10/20/eu-agrees-new-sanctions-over-iranian-drones-in-ukraine

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Rain Dog
Date: 20 Oct 22 - 05:57 PM

Easy to see how these things escalate.

Russian jet released missile near RAF aircraft over Black Sea

"A missile was released from a Russian aircraft near an unarmed RAF plane on patrol over the Black Sea, the defence secretary has said.

Ben Wallace said the "potentially dangerous" incident happened on 29 September in international airspace.

Russia said it was the result of a "technical malfunction".

UK patrols over the Black Sea were suspended but have now resumed and are escorted by a fighter jet following Russia's response.

Mr Wallace told MPs the UK was not treating the incident as a "deliberate escalation" by Russia but said it was a "reminder of quite how dangerous things can be when you choose to use your fighters in the manner that the Russians have done over many periods of time".

He was speaking in the Commons following his urgent trip to the US earlier this week where he discussed the security situation in Ukraine, including the threat of a nuclear attack, with his American counterpart.

The incident last month involved two Russian SU-27s and an unarmed RAF RC-135 Rivet Joint - an electronic surveillance plane.

Mr Wallace said that during an "interaction" one of the SU-27 aircraft "released a missile in the vicinity of the RAF Rivet Joint beyond visual range".

He said he expressed his concerns in a letter to the Russian defence minister.

The minister's reply on 10 October said an investigation had been conducted and found there had been a "technical malfunction" with the Russian plane, Mr Wallace said.

They also acknowledged the incident took place in international airspace, he added.

Mr Wallace suggested the Black Sea incident showed the Russian military were "not beyond making the wrong calculation or indeed deciding that the rules don't apply to them".

Luke Pollard, Labour's shadow defence minister, said: "This incident also acts as a serious reminder about the importance of avoiding escalation and miscalculation while continuing the UK's united support for Ukraine.""

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 01 Sep 22 - 07:43 PM

Russians have some wonderful characteristics, but they are not held up as a standard of subtlety! Nor tact!

BTW, I'm not saying we Yanks are, either, but by comparison............

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 08:25 AM

You must know about Russain pirate gold on Adak Island Alaska

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Senoufou
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 02:40 AM

Ah robomatic, this huge helicopter has a bright searchlight too, and a couple of times has woken me up during the night with its activities.
Since this village is usually completely silent at all times, it's a bit disconcerting!

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Aug 22 - 05:51 PM

I used to meet the priest from Aniak in my days when my job took me to the Alaskan villages. He had had some interesting training experiences before they gave him his position. He had spent time with Alaskans on the coast who took him out to Little Diomede Island, which is not inhabited. They ambushed and harpooned a seal there and it fled to Big Diomede Island, one and a half miles away and in the then Soviet Union. They followed the animal and killed it and were butchering it on the shore with Father Tony rather nervously asking them if it was 'okay' to be where they were doing what they were doing. Then they saw a lot of faces popping up over the dunes (there was a military base on Big Diomede), and the Alaskans all told Father Tony it was indeed time to go home. They got back in the umiak and got out of there. I don't know if they were able to get the seal loaded or not. Anyhow, they got back to the village on the Alaska coast, but that night a huge helicopter stationed itself right between the islands and hovered there for hours, flashing its navigation lights.