BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 22 - 01:50 AM

I find Bidens analysis flawed.
There is no economic advantage to Putin in restoring the Soviet Union. There are economic advantages to invading the Ukraine. There are also long term economic advantages in waging war, again if we use historical comparisopns which are based on fairly recent historical experience
e.g the UK economy after the second world war.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 05:06 PM

So two Historical similarites between dictators, The need to obtain certain resources. why would Putin want to restore the soviet union.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 05:01 PM

I based my comment on past experience, Hitlers invasion of Poland, was for resources, the polish coalfields
The Ruhr was an important industrial region of Germany close to the border with France and also home to many coalfields which were vital to Germany's industrial production and, therefore, its ability to pay reparations. Germany would sometimes

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 12:46 PM

Let's stop with the insults and unsolicited insults. Dick's post was *that close* to being deleted except I was waiting to see if the claim about mining titanium had anything to do with all of this. Don't feed the trolls.

From an AP update comes this tidbit:

KVIV, Ukraine — Russia has begun dropping bunker-buster bombs on a Mariupol steel plant where Ukrainians are refusing to surrender, the commander of the Azov Regiment of the National Guard said Monday.

Russia is bombing the plant even though civilians are sheltering in the plant’s tunnels. “Russian occupational forces, and their proxy ... know about the civilians, and they keep willingly firing on the factory,” he said.

Russia estimated that 2,500 Ukrainian troops and about 400 foreign mercenaries were dug in. The U.S. said nearly a dozen Russian battalion tactical groups have been tied up trying to defeat them. . . . Ukraine estimates that 21,000 people have been killed in Mariupol. Deputy Prime Minister Iryna Vereshchuk warned Russia on social media that refusing to open humanitarian corridors will justify war crimes trials. The Russians, for their part, said “neo-Nazi nationalists” have hampered evacuations.

Link (though AP links don't stay live for long).

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 12:19 PM

There's really no need for a gratuitous insult, Mr Miles.

This from Fox News (yes, I do look around...):

I've read most of everything he’s written," President Biden said of Russian President Vladimir Putin last month. "He has much larger ambitions in Ukraine. He wants to, in fact, reestablish the former Soviet Union. That’s what this is about."

Many experts believe that Biden is right. In an often cited and perhaps highly revealing comment years ago, Putin said that he believed the fall of the Soviet Union was the greatest geopolitical tragedy of the 20th century.

Good to know that Joe Biden shares at least one of my fantasies!

Since 2008 Putin has annexed South Ossetia, taken Chechnya (whilst razing its capital, Grozny), annexed Crimea, attempted to occupy tracts of eastern Ukraine and is now trying to take the whole of Ukraine. You can bet your bottom dollar that his next target will be the extremely vulnerable Kuwalski gap, the short border between Poland and Lithuania. He needs to take that border in order to connect the strategic Russian enclave Kaliningrad with Russia - and to cut off Lithuania from other NATO countries. The Lithuanian people are living in mortal fear.

I won't call you naive, Dick, but let's just say that Putin's aims have become more and more transparent, though you appear not to have noticed...

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 10:11 AM

Steve Shaw , how do you know what Putin thinks. how do you know that Putin wants to restore the soviet union, is this another of your fantasies
.USGS estimates that Ukraine produced 525,000 tonnes of titanium mineral concentrates last year.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Apr 22 - 03:30 AM

Interview of Volodymyr Zelensky in The Atlantic

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Apr 22 - 08:30 PM

For an example of life in a post-Soviet neverland:

Journey to Transnistria: Inside Russia's Disinformation Bubble

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 02:45 PM

Cormac McCarthy should write an account of the war in which Russia attacks Ukraine. ala Blood Meridian.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Apr 22 - 02:28 PM

Just read Masha Gessen's https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/04/18/the-holocaust-memorial-undone-by-a
in The New Yorker. It has several items I want to remember word for word:


"The problem with Putin's revisionist history is not just the centrality of the Soviet Union and Soviet military glory; it's that, like all Russian propaganda, it intentionally sows chaos. The effect is to produce a preferred historical narrative and a sense of nihilism - a consensus that good and evil are indistinguishable, that nothing is true and everything is possible."


This is a technique that is not new, but is made much more prevalent via the internet.


It goes beyond the old saw: "The first casualty in war is the truth."

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 01:10 PM

You sunk my battleship!

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 09:36 PM

Since you wrote about the ship being damaged it has sunk. A major symbolic blow in a tragic war.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 02:49 PM

As of now the main news sources (BBC,PBS,CNN) are reporting that Russia is lining up resources for a major (re)incursion in the Donbass. This was a territorial ambition of Putin/ Russia since the seizure of Crimea, as it allows a land connection from Russia proper to its purloined territory. This is the location of the existing conflict between Russian backed 'separatists' and Ukrainian forces since the Russian takeover of Crimea in 2014.

Meanwhile, the Russian cruiser Moskva has been badly damaged. The Russians reported a major fire and removal of its crew, which is about 500. There are various reports of its current status. Some reports are that it has sunk. Others that it is under tow to Sevastopol.

The Ukrainians are claiming it was hit by their missiles. In any case it is at the least an embarrassment to Russia.

With all the reports of war crimes, rocket attacks, columns of tanks and that this is the greatest land war in Europe since WW2, this is still a limited war. But it is right on the literal bleeding edge of becoming something even more horrendous and damning.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 09:53 AM

Putin's getting his ass handed to him in the Ukraine, how's he going to expand elsewhere. He's calling up conscripts who have been out of the service for 10 years and putting 17-18 yr. old cadets into the field. He'll likely be moving into a personal survival mode soon, if he's not there already.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 09:19 AM

Donald Trump would be happy to agree with you and wants America to be a great nuclear power again and use them. That blather is for his base and not his pal 'Vlad the Assailer'.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 06:17 PM

That's just a pretext. Ukraine knows, and the west knows, that there is no prospect of Ukraine joining NATO. His mission is to restore the Soviet Union. A big worry is NATO's Achilles heel, the Suwalki Gap between Poland and Lithuania. It's a short stretch of border, but if Russia can take control of it, it will give Putin two advantages: first, it will enable him to connect the Russian enclave of Kaliningrad to Russia, and it would cut off the small Balkan NATO states, starting with Lithuania (any bets on their being his next target?) What's not to like, Vlad?

Of course, stepping on that border would breach the west's red line. But I think
Putin thinks we're too weak to escalate, should he do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 12:41 PM

Putin makes an issue of Ukraine wanting to join NATO as a reason for his invasion; on the PBS Newshour last night they had an interesting story about how this action in Ukraine is liable to push Sweden and Finland to join NATO.

Finland, Sweden move toward possible NATO membership amid Russian war in Ukraine. Finland is prepared.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Mar 22 - 06:51 PM

Last week Fresh Air had Masha Gessen on for the full show. I'd been waiting to hear her take, because she's reported and written on the phenomenon of Putin and the Russian/ Ukraine war extensively. It was quite interesting, just not too cheerful.

Last night (15MAR2022) the PBS show Frontline covered Putin's Road to War.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 11:51 AM

we should have an advantage as we have a daughter who works for a ukranian business in tallinn. we are hoping they can put us in touch with someone or two who needs help

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 08:09 AM

You can only register if you know the names of those you are offering space to. Bit of a waste of time really.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 07:43 AM

I read this morning that the website for UK people wanting to offer some living space to Ukrainian refugees has crashed due to overload. This is very generous of all those who have offered. But the Visa-processing by the UK Border Agency is going to hold things up for ages.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 10:50 PM

I think it was former Labor Secretary Robert Reich who wrote today about Russia on the verge of defaulting on paying millions on loan interest. They can't get the dollars with which it must be paid.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 09:36 PM

I doubt very much whether sliding into a wider war would do anything to reduce the number of Ukrainians killed. World Wars just don't work like that.

In a world with nuclear weapons there is no prospect of victory for anyone in such a war. The only way the Putin regime will lose power is if his backers and supporters turn against him. Humiliation in Ukraine is the way that could come about, and more direct involvement of Nato serves to preserve him.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 07:01 PM

Family stories are interesting, but if you ever watch Henry Louis Gates' Finding Your Roots, they're made to be debunked. And as an NPS interpretive historian at Ellis Island leading tours and answering questions, it was one we most frequently had to tell people was wrong. With all of the stuff people keep, there was never a shred of evidence that turned up saying "your new name is X."

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 06:57 PM

Without more evidence if my family's name was a myth its one they all agreed upon. I only met all the survivors together just once in Boston and I was young. Although I didn't know why at the time I got the impression that blonde hair and blue eyes was unacceptable. They were not a tall people but skilled. Grandad was babe Ruth's collision mechanic and business was good. (hic) One of the sons born in the US owned the first super glue factory. The tour was smelly and dangerous.

The classical station featured all Ukranian music all day. Cable news is 24/7 Ukraine war. There may come a day that Ukraine joins the long
of countries torn by war.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 06:12 PM

And this - they have a point:

Cloudflare and Akamai refuse to pull services out of Russia
Cloudflare claims if it shuts down operations in Russia, it would be a victory for the Russian government.

Cloudflare and Akamai have each confirmed they will continue to operate in Russia, despite being urged to do otherwise.

Both companies have argued that if they were to pull their services, they would be hurting Russian citizens who are trying to access information from outside of the country, but said they condemn Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

Cloudflare CEO Matthew Prince wrote in a blog post acknowledging that the company has received "several calls to terminate" all of its services inside Russia, including by government.

"Our conclusion … is that Russia needs more internet access, not less," he said.

"As the conflict has continued, we've seen a dramatic increase in requests from Russian networks to worldwide media, reflecting a desire by ordinary Russian citizens to see world news beyond that provided within Russia."

He continued: "Indiscriminately terminating service would do little to harm the Russian government, but would both limit access to information outside the country, and make significantly more vulnerable those who have used us to shield themselves as they have criticized the government".

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 06:10 PM

Ukraine reportedly adopts Clearview AI to track Russian invaders
The facial recognition technology has not been made available to Russia.

On March 13, Reuters reported that the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine had adopted the firm's facial recognition engine.

Clearview CEO Hoan Ton-That offered the US company's assistance to Kyiv, and according to the news outlet, the AI tech is being used to "potentially vet people of interest at checkpoints, among other uses," for free.

The startup has not offered the same to Russia, of which President Putin calls the war a "special military operation."

Clearview offers facial recognition technologies to law enforcement for criminal investigations. The US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) awarded the company a patent in January for using publicly-available data -- including mugshots, social media profiles, and news sites -- to match "similar photos using its proprietary facial recognition algorithm."

See also: Ethics of AI: Benefits and risks of artificial intelligence

Over two billion photos have been grabbed from VKontakte, a Russian social network, but over 10 billion are reportedly available for use.

As well as flagging Russian individuals of interest to authorities, it is possible that the Clearview AI search engine could be used to identify misinformation and propaganda online, to identify refugees and family connections, or potentially as a means to try and identify fatalities.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 03:31 PM

That's a myth that names were changed at Ellis Island, and the story tends to be told about the turn of the last century era. By the time of your family's transit here, as you tell it, Ellis wasn't processing immigrants or refugees, that stopped in 1924 when embassies took over that work and all of the documents were letter perfect and the shipping companies kept detailed manifest records. If the name was changed, your ancestors changed it. If people arrived by ship they disembarked with their proper papers, and if they arrived by plane the same at the airports. Only an official at either place to check documents.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 03:04 PM

My Dad's mum was born in Bialystok that is. Not my Grandad'# Mum

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 03:02 PM

My Dad was from the same area, Donuel - Bialystok in Poland, close to the border with Belarus. His Dad was from Krupotkin on the Kuban River, in Russia but close to both Ukraine and Georgia. His Mum was born in Bialystok but her Dad was a much decorated Officer of the Russian Tzar's army who met his wife while stationed in Poland! I was born David Polakow but my parents anglicised our surname when I was young. I grew up with true tales of both German Nazi and Russian Communist oppression. Little wonder I despise extremism and get very narked by the right wing factions on here when they accuse me of being a left wing extremist :-(

I experienced a Russian troll on Faceache the other day. Said he was a history professor in Brazil and proceded to explain that because my family fled Soviet oppression in 1945 they must have been Nazis! I blocked him of course but had fun shredding his nonsense first :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 01:38 PM

My Dad's Dad never really knew if they lived in eastern Poland or western Russia as they put it. Between Hitler and Stalin the family was killed off leaving only 6 who escaped to Boston. At Ellis Island they were asked their name but grand dad responded in a yiddish euphemism which sounded like it ended in ahkem so the clerk wrote down Hackman. We don't know what the actual name was anymore. We do know the euphemism roughly translated was 'stop banging my head like a teapot'. My biodad was Gene Hackman's 1st cousin so we had Hackmans on both sides of the family. So my connection with now Ukraine is as tenuous as my connection with ancient Scotland and England. The English name was Black or Blagg depending on the accent.

Putin will possibly end up with a divided Ukraine that mostly hates Russia and a few who love the Russian 1%.
China will wisely take generations to take Hong Kong and Taiwan but with more harmony over time. Putin wants immediate violent results but he will suffer from his impatience and destruction.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 12:46 PM

Simon Tisdall in the Guardian thinks the same as me:

"The more Ukraine resists, the greater the danger to Nato. It should act now to stop the slaughter"

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 11:10 AM

Hey, it's only my opinion anyway, Steve. Not worth getting hot under the collar. I am no expert on either diplomacy or warfare but I do know people quite well. There are very few react well to stupid comments or provocation. There are equally few who will have their minds changed by reason, particularly if their arguments are not based on logic anyway. And there are those who are purposely antagonistic that I only respond to with equal abuse or by ignoring them! Glad to say that there are not many of them left :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 10:47 AM

The military base near the Polish border was hit by air strikes, Dave, killing 35 people, as have several cities in southern Ukraine. A residential building just outside Kiyv was hit by an air strike this morning. The reason that most attacks have so far been from the ground is that it's just the fringes of the country that have borne the brunt as Putin's military convoys have rolled in over the border. Not only that, daytime attacks are hazardous because of Ukraine's anti-aircraft munitions, but the days are getting longer and policing all those extra daylight hours will be a hard task. Putin's attack has stalled badly. He is nowhere near most of the west of the country, and air strikes will be his chosen way of doing damage there. We need a no-fly zone quickly, in m'humble. I'm glad that you and I, at least, can disagree without making stupid comments to each other! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 08:54 AM

Having thought long and hard about this, I genuinely believe Putin has dropped the ball. He miscalculated the level of Ukrainian resistance and the reaction of the rest of the world. He needs to be kept wrong footed as the longer he tries and fails to take Ukraine the smaller his support base becomes. If NATO or the western powers begin direct conflict with his forces by, for instance, enforcing a no fly zone, he will start to regain support from both his own people and from countries who are currently wavering.

I cannot see a no fly zone having any great effect on the bombarment of Ukraine civilians as, from what I see and hear, most of it is coming from artillery rather than the skies anyway. The best thing we can do, in my opinion, is to keep supporting Ukraine with both weapons of defence and a safe haven for anyone wishing to leave. It is a tragedy that so many have to die and the courage of Ukrainians fighting the invaders and of Russians standing against their oppresive regime is to be applauded and, wherever possible, assisted.

Just my 2p of couse.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 07:45 AM

I am airing my opinions. If you have any, please air them. It's much nicer than indulging in not-so-cleverly-hidden ad hominem attacks.

I read this morning that batteries of Patriot (defensive surface-to-air) missiles are lining up along various borders with Russia, coming from a number of European countries, Canada and the US. Putin may want to stop those from arriving (he can't without attacking Nato territory) and to stop the convoys carrying arms reinforcements through Poland into Ukraine, but he can't police the whole long border. Time to show our muscle. The more we do that, the less chance of his attacking a Nato country. One thing's for sure - sanctions won't stop him.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 07:10 AM

Steve rolled a cold pickle jar down me back with his WW3 escalation talk.

i'll blame it on frustration and outrage which I've heard elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 07:00 AM

The collection point in Bude for clothes, blankets, nappies, that sort of thing, has been overwhelmed by the generosity of local people. On Saturday we had a coffee-and-cake morning that raised £2000 in just over a couple of hours. Collection centres are telling us what items they need most and what isn't quite so useful. One thing I find a bit tacky is the offer of £350 per month to take in refugees. I don't think that most British people need that kind of "bribe." I suppose we could give the money to the victims for them to buy some clothes and toys for their kids. We've just given our Nectar points up!

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 05:08 AM

Whatever we think of their mental state, the bottom-line issue is that they could both be in power in couple of years' time. And they both know exactly what they're doing. Putin is turning large areas of Ukraine into a wasteland and we rapidly have to decide how long we can allow him to continue to do that. The fact that Ukraine is not in Nato almost feels like a technicality as we watch the slaughter on our tellies. He will target the smaller Nato states on his border next if he thinks he's conquered Ukraine, and at the very least we should be massing overwhelming firepower on those borders.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Senoufou
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 04:12 AM

There is a move afoot here in UK to encourage people with a spare room etc. to offer six months' shelter to refugees from Ukraine. There is a (small) sum given to cover any food/expenses etc.
I'm somewhat tempted. (Since my husband left, there is quite a bit of space in my bungalow, and I'm rather lonely). However, there is no public transport in our village, and it is a bit remote, so I don't think it would be possible for the refugee/s to access paid work.. There might be language problems too. I speak quite a few languages, but Ukrainian isn't one of them!
However, I did teach my husband to speak English using Phonics and flash cards etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 22 - 11:20 PM

They are both sociopaths and are out of their minds as far as normal people operate. YMMV.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 22 - 10:08 PM

Incidentally, Putin is most decidedly not out of his effing mind. That assumption is incredibly dangerous. He knows exactly what he's doing. The same has been said about Trump. But Trump, equally, is also not out of his mind. There's a very game chance that he will win the next election, and there's a very game chance that Putin will survive this horror and continue in power. The assumption that either of these men will not survive a setback is so incredibly complacent. The world is simply not spinning that way any more. In just over two years' time we could well have Trump in the White House and Putin in the Kremlin. Be very afraid.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Mar 22 - 09:54 PM

Well, ten days later (who knows what might come back...), suggesting that he should be assassinated drags us right down to his level. We need to see him in court, then in jail. Whatever else, what we don't need is to see him come out of this still in power. That doesn't mean that that has to be the sine qua non before we end this war, as the key issue is to stop the slaughter. But afterwards, we have to get him, and sharpish. And I think we will. In the meantime, we must enforce a no-fly zone, and we must let him know in no uncertain terms that one boot on the ground, or one missile attack, in a NATO country means the end of him and the breakup of his state. That much do we owe to the brave people of Ukraine.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Mar 22 - 09:48 PM

They're hanging on, but what a struggle. Russian missiles strike Ukrainian military range near Poland, killing dozens. Moscow promises further attacks.

Putin is out of his effing mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 10:09 PM

Exactly. What you think and what comes out of your mouth are two different things entirely if you're a public figure. Facebook blocked a remark I put on one of your posts - community standards don't allow for the random observation "he should be shot." I didn't consider that the same as instructions to his cohorts to assassinate him, but I suppose the AI algorithms read it as that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 09:48 PM

I suspect he's mostly talking to Don. They sort of have a thing.

I'm retired and not wealthy, there's no public transportation here, I'm two miles away from a grocery store and ten miles away from my preferred one, and clothes and other things are 20 or more miles away, but I don't have to drive to work, and I wouldn't mind paying more for gas if we can stick it to Putin. I'm eventually going to have to pay more, anyway.

Lindsey Graham, who I don't like at all, is in deep doo-doo for suggesting someone over there assassinate Putin. I don't think it's a bad idea, but it's not political to actually say it out loud.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 09:32 PM

So do you think that ranting at people in the US who individually can't do anything about Russia invading Ukraine is helpful, Steve? Did you hear any one of us complain that we should keep getting Russian oil to be able to fill our tanks cheaply? No. Russia is responsible for this mess and short of starting WWIII many measures have been taken and sanctions put in place to force Putin to back down. I'm hearing of a few who are saying we should "give him an out, a way to save face." Nope. There should be no face-saving for Vladimir Putin, and if I have to help by donating to a fund so low-income drivers in my town can get help with gas, I will.

I don't know what's going on with you but your posts are very unpleasant to read and are needlessly targeting particular members and moderation. And when that happens, they are deleted, even if part of the post had something to do with the topic. We don't operate by Steve's Rules here and your nagging just takes us away from the subject. Consider stepping back for a few days. Don't watch much news, go play a musical instrument, work in the garden, take a walk. Cook something. Do some kind of mental reset.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 09:15 PM

Please don't toss your crumpets. Since I am somehow respondsible for bloody oil prices and inflation that hardly counts for anything, lets just agree its Putin's War.
However, I will not take any respondsibility for Putin's war.

Perhaps you want me to enforce a no fly zone over Ukraine and shoot down Russain planes. We narrowly avoided a nuclear meltdown 10 times bigger than Chernobyl last night. Perhaps Putin wants to go nuclear but the US is determined to minimize that from happening. Total prevention is not possible without the US going toe to toe in nuclear poker of bluffing or going all in.
Lets keep losses less than the dead from pandemic and be rational.

Rationaly speaking I can not do a damn thing except protest.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 08:51 PM

That was a report from a journalist, not an "opinion piece." Falling back on "everyone hates the yanks" is just tired and lazy. There is a big issue here, and it's that people like you and me (and it wouldn't matter even if it wasn't people like you and me....) are being slaughtered, driven from their homes and families, losing everything they have and spending their lives in fear and terror. Your bloody oil prices and inflation hardly count for anything in that scheme of things. To say the least, the piece I read about US self-interest trumping everything else made me want to throw up.

Subject: RE: BS: Long Night in Ukraine - Feb. 23, 2022
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 08:29 PM

I know many dislike the US but an opinion piece in the Guardian is not the final word during these fluid times.

Meanwhile in Russia you can't use an ATM or credit cards.
The Ukraine invasion is not the doing of the US or a lax response.
The US is not respondsible for attacking the largest nuke plant in Europe which is located in Ukraine.

If one stated 'fake' news about the Ukraine invasion inside Russia they face a 15 year prison sentence. I tend to think the party line is the fake news.
In the US there is a bipartisan push for banning Russia oil and gas!
I daresay that is more than parts of Europe's response.

Sometimes being angry for anger's sake is unhelpful.