BS: Olde Sayings

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 04:42 AM

He couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo (oft heard when a footballer misses an open goal from two yards)

Put wood in th' 'ole (shut that door)

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 04:07 AM

In Wedgebury (Wednesbury to those outside the Black Country)

"Up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire"

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Jun 22 - 03:06 AM

When my sister and I were small, in the evening our father used to say firmly "Up the wooden road to Bedford!" (time for bed)

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 05 Jun 22 - 07:41 AM

Seen on a wall in Wellington NZ

"When the atom drum bops, wheel all beef hooked"

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Jun 22 - 07:10 PM

Safe as walking into a church.
obsolete in US

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Raggytash
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 09:01 AM

I'd forgotten about that one Steve *grin* !!

Many years ago one of our group brought his Australian girfriend into out company, grand lass she was too. We decide we would teach her to speak "proper lanky" speech so we derived a saying for her to learn. It HAS to be said in broad Lanky mind.

"there's nowt wrong with owt, whats gradely o'er stump as long as there's tripe in picklin'"




* for our American cousins it loosely translates as "as is well with the world"

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 07:18 AM

"She's no better than she ought to be" always mystifies me. Herself for some reason links that to "a house of ill repute but good reputation".

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 06:16 AM

Well bugger me sideways with a burnt chip (thanks to Raggytash for that one)

Or,

Well bugger me sideways with a bent fish-hook (thanks to Stephen Fry for that one)

Or,

Whale oil beef hooked...

(They all mean the same thing!)

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 02 Jun 22 - 05:37 AM

not got two ha'pneys to rub together (half penny for our US cousins)

or as I say after 4 hours walking on rough ground

"At last I have two ape knees to rub together"

thinks - should I add the one about having a joint account?

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Rapparee
Date: 01 Jun 22 - 09:41 PM

All right, get up there! You sons of bitches wanna live forever?

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 31 May 22 - 06:00 PM

Don't come crying to me...

If you break your leg - don't come running to me

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 29 May 22 - 10:30 AM

.... can't .... resist ....

Joe_F's contribution reminds me of something from one of the older Red dwarf episodes: "like trying to find a fart in a jacuzzi". Related?

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 May 22 - 07:48 AM

The senior gardener on the Coronation Park estate in Radcliffe would get off his seat at the end of the tea break and say to us, "Right, come on lads, be men..."

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Donuel
Date: 28 May 22 - 11:00 PM

Who in their right mind would?

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 May 22 - 10:57 PM

Just get back in the saddle and pull leather. Cowboy up!

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 May 22 - 06:03 PM

Don't come crying to me...

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 May 22 - 05:56 PM

Sometimes such sayings develop successors. The following example was told me by Maurice Samuel of blessed memory.

There used to be a Yiddish expression for drifting around helplessly: "vi a frantsoiz in Rusland" (like a Frenchman in Russia, referring to Napoleon's retreat). This was parodied as "vi a farts im roisl" (like a fart in the pickle barrel, referring to fermentation bubbles working their way up between the pickles. By the time my father learned it (in English), it had lost its historical roots and become simply "like a fart in the marketplace".

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 May 22 - 09:51 PM

You drive like old people (fill in the blank yourself).

If you were any slower you'd be dead.

His worth is about like a fart in a windstorm.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 May 22 - 08:54 AM

He couldn't find his arse wi' both hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 May 22 - 07:39 AM

'e needs pulling through with a christmas tree

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 May 22 - 02:52 AM

My mother used to use alternative words for my (long) trousers. Variously trous, slacks and even pantaloons. Sometimes pants but she did live in Pennsylvania for about 5 years as a young girl.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 May 22 - 02:46 AM

women's panties Ah! Methinks a transliteration.
I would posit - panties imply under garments cf pants external garb - mostly. UK English anyway.
And probably NZ English too, though they use the Scottish English often like uptake where I would say pick up - as in tourists' leaflets.

It's a Tower of Babble out there

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Savings
From: Donuel
Date: 25 May 22 - 08:31 PM

Olde Savings are the best Savings.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 22 - 04:25 PM

Lord God Almighty
Weed on his nightie.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 May 22 - 04:14 PM

Here's an olde saying:

"Bloody Hell."

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mrrzy
Date: 25 May 22 - 12:45 PM

There's a German on the grass
With a bullet up his ass
Pull it out
Pull it out
Boy scout

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 May 22 - 11:00 AM

My Mum used to have a lot of sayings

Oh What fun! Oh what Fun!
Shooting peas up a nanny goats bum

sign out side Fish Shop in St Helens
If it swims Alf's got it!

Mrs Maguire peed on the fire
the Fire was too hot
She peed on the pot
The pot was too round
She peed on the ground
The ground was too flat
She peed on the cat
And the cat ran away with the pee on its back

and other stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 May 22 - 10:55 AM

Woe is me, for I have been Wiki'd. The *second* DDG hit carefully explains that no such expression has been found in the entirety of the Latin mass, and traces the basic construction to a reference, in a work of literary satire, to a book which never existed. (I would have gone further, but my browser doesn't like the taste of said site's cookies.)

Moral: beware folk etymology.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 24 May 22 - 10:17 AM

Gotcha: the first hit on DDG is to Wictionary, where "Ah! mihi, bea’te Martine", which translates to "Ah! Grant to me, blessed Martin" (meaning Saint Martin), is alleged to have been the punchline of a nautical joke. Methinks the punctuation may be significant unto Google Translate.

Note to self: put brain in gear before engaging mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Monique
Date: 24 May 22 - 08:36 AM

"There's enough blue to make a Dutch boy a pair of trousers". Here it's "une culotte de gendarme" which shows the expression must be more than 150 years old because "culotte" switched from "men's trousers" to "women's panties" in the mid 1800's.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 22 - 07:23 AM

"Eeee, bloody Nora, I feel as I've bin shagged by a rhino..."

OK, not olde, but I don't half use it a lot after a long day...

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:56 AM

'There's enough blue to make a Dutch boy a pair of trousers'.

With us it was a Sailor - which makes more sense to me. As if sky and trousers make sense!

Monique - merci beaucou for calling a cat a cat!

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Monique
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:38 AM

French-speaking girls, it's "Tu me sors par les yeux".
Mr Red, we do say "Le chat t'a mangé la langue" to say "the cat got your tongue" and "donner sa langue au chat" is when we give up guessing. We don't "throw in the towel", we "throw the sponge".

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 May 22 - 06:12 AM

It was enough blue to make a Dutchman's britches our end!

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: G-Force
Date: 24 May 22 - 05:37 AM

My mother had some unforgettable sayings. After some minor catrastrophe like something getting broken or a drink getting knocked over, she would say 'Worse things happen in China'.

And on an overcast day, when the clouds started to clear away it would be 'There's enough blue to make a Dutch boy a pair of trousers'.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 May 22 - 03:39 AM

Goggle can only manage "Alma mihi et Beate Martine" > Alma me and Blessed Martin

And cannot translate "Alma Mater" nourishing mother (go figure)

Shipshape and Bristol fashion. originally meant upright, as in the angle of repose of the mud in the Bristol Avon. The bottoms of the boats were at that angle so that as the tide receded the ships settled in the mud upright. Or so I read long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 22 - 10:46 AM

Why is it called Going for a Burton?
It was widely used as a slang term by the RAF in World War Two when the RAF took heavy casualties during the war to defeat Nazi Germany. Back then it was considered bad luck to say that someone had died or was missing in action, so the phrase 'gone for a Burton' was used instead

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: G-Force
Date: 23 May 22 - 10:34 AM

I think it was something like: 'alma mihi et Beate Martine'.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 May 22 - 06:52 AM

Shipshape and Bristol fashion.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 May 22 - 03:05 AM

iron cannon balls on a dimpled brass plate on the deck of a war-ship.

Yea, but only for ceremonial purposes, and when moored in harbour. Never when floating free.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 May 22 - 12:10 PM

A vague memory suggests "It was all My eye and Betty Martin" may have been a nautical mondegreen: a sailor venturing ashore in a Catholic country, happening on a Mass being celebrated, and being asked back on the ship what it was like. Determining quite what from the Latin mass was misheard as "my eye and betty martin" is left as an exercise for the student, but I remember thinking "that makes sense" when I saw it.

.... When Herself goes to Mass next, I'll ask her to ask the priest. Research continues.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 May 22 - 09:16 AM

Eeee, f*****g stroll on...

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 22 - 06:44 AM

'Thas a rummun'

This phrase is used to describe situations which are a little out of the ordinary or odd.

• 'What a load of ole squit'

When someone thinks you're talking utter rubbish in East Anglia they'll probably let you know by saying this classic phrase.

• 'Hold yew hard'

If you wanted someone to hang on for a moment, this is what you'
East Anglian sayings

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 22 - 06:37 AM

The expression: "It is cold enough to freeze the balls of a brass monkey" comes from the practice of putting iron cannon balls on a dimpled brass plate on the deck of a war-ship. When very cold the brass contracted sufficiently to cause the iron balls to fall out.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 May 22 - 04:31 AM

Mes pieds me tuent - Goggle can't find moi in context and fails on the same word in Portuguese & Castillian. In Catalan it looks like the feet are dangerous weapons, but in German, maybe, it translates well, though idiomatic language doesn't carry well and on Goggle even worse.

eg Calling a spade a spade in French becomes a calling a cat a cat - I wonder how cat got your tongue is received in French? I think it sounds like you give your cat a tongue - Oh! What fun!.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 May 22 - 05:26 PM

My mother's immigrant friends thought that the most bizarre American expressions were "My feet are killing me" and "I feel like a cocktail". Try those out in *any* other language.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 22 - 04:17 PM

"It's all my eye and Betty Martin" - an ancient expression that means "don't give me your bullshit..."

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 May 22 - 06:05 PM

As I heard it, Brass Monkeys were ceremonial/ neat & tidy land fashions.

Just imagine a pyramid of balls on a rolling ship! In the fog of war! They had suitably troughed shelves for holding cannon balls on board.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 May 22 - 02:10 AM

Ha Mrrzy, that's a new one! Mon époux me sort des yeux!
I think I may have asked this on Mudcat before, but can anybody shed some light on something my Irish mother (from Cork) used to say?
Example: "You've been playing out in the mud, 'allowan'." Now what does 'allowan' mean, and what is its origin?

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Donuel
Date: 18 May 22 - 08:49 PM

"Life is the universe developing memory"

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mrrzy
Date: 18 May 22 - 02:09 PM

Can we do foreign ones? I just learned another way to say You make me sick in French is Tu me sors des yeux (you are coming out of my eyes).

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Raedwulf
Date: 17 May 22 - 01:44 PM

"Couldn't stop a pig in a passage" is the version I know. Anyway...

It's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... came from the 18th century British Navy.,,, They had monkeys (square racks made of iron and designed in squares to hold 16 cannon balls). However, when in icy conditions, the iron was subject to shrinkage and the cannon balls rolled off onto the deck. Subsequently, brass monkeys were made which actually worked well..... but the expression, it's enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey was coined.

Utter rubbish, I'm afraid, GSilver! ;-) It's certainly a popular & widely known explanation for the phrase, but it's not remotely true. It's actually a good example of Meself's most 'explanations of common phrases' turn out to be highly dubious...

I can't give you an elegant explanation of the whole why & wherefore of this, because I've not yet completed the entry (I write an occasional "Word of the Day" thing for a group of friends, but have had no time lately to complete any of several nascent pieces). But consider these things...

The more common version of your explanation is the monkey was a brass frame on which cannon balls were piled pyramid fashion, and the difference in the rate of expansion / contraction would result in cannon balls being popped off the frame in cold weather.

First a ship of the "Wooden Walls" era is very much subject to the whims of the weather. You wouldn't store cannon balls in this fashion; they'd quickly be rolling all over the decks, and you don't want 12-, 24-, 36-lb lumps of iron doing THAT! Also relevant is that you don't want iron cannon balls exposed to the elements - they rust (another reason why it wouldn't have been an iron frame; they'd potentially rust themselves together). Gunners actually took the trouble to remove any imperfections on the surface of a ball, as otherwise it might not fly true when fired, or even jam in the barrel & cause the gun to explode.

Second, one gentleman on the net pointed out that if the “monkey” were your dimpled frame (rather than just a square) a yard across, to move a 6” ball 1”, given the relative expansion & contraction of iron & brass, the temperature would have to fall to some -4,000,000 C. Which is going to be tricky to achieve given that Absolute Zero -273.15C is the theoretical zero point of temperature (0 Kelvin), from whence it is not possible to get colder. So physics as well as practicality is against it.

Third, other monkey expressions are scald the throat, singe the hair, melt the nose; freeze the tail, nose, ears, whiskers. The good old OED lacks any reference to the phrase being used in this way. It's entirely possible that the one time popularity of the "Hear / see / speak no evil" ornamental trio of monkeys, usually made of brass, has given precedence to that version of the phrase above the the others. Whilst an amusing tale, historical it most certainly is not!*

* Historically speaking, the RN used shot garlands - wooden planks with holes bored into them; a lot easier & cheaper to make in those days than expensively casting metal...

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 22 - 02:08 PM

I don't remember that one. Another one, a bit cruel, popped up whenever a bandy-legged individual was spotted: "Eee, look at him. He couldn't stop a pig in an entry..."

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 22 - 06:32 AM

Must be our shared background, Steve. I was only thinking of 'foot of our stairs' when I read Sen's post. Was 'Piffy on a rock bun' also part of your childhood vocabulary?

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 May 22 - 06:00 AM

Well I'll go to t'foot of our stair...

My gran avoided expletives by inserting substitute words. "Bloody hell" became "blood and stomach pills" and "as happy as pigs in shite" became "as happy as pigs in Shudehill." :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Senoufou
Date: 15 May 22 - 01:40 AM

Here in Norfolk there's no end of amusing old sayings. If one suggests throwing an unwanted item away, it's "Bucket and chuck it", referring to the old 'thunder boxes' (outside toilets with merely a bucket for use)
If something goes wrong, one asks, "Hev the bottom drawped owt?" which refers to a boat in trouble at the coast. (The 'Singing Postman' used this in one of his songs)
And "Dew yew keep a-troshing!" (Keep on threshing) which alludes to the old practice of threshing wheat in a barn to remove the grain. It's used nowadays to mean 'carry on trying'.
I do so love Norfolk!

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Neil D
Date: 13 May 22 - 10:05 PM

The first chapter of Victor Hugo's novel, "Ninety-three", includes a vivid description of the devastation caused on the gun deck of warship when a heavy cannon on a wheeled carriage breaks loose from its chains in rolling seas. Sailors are killed and the ship nearly sunk. It left me in no doubt as to the origin of the term "loose cannon".

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 May 22 - 03:40 PM

Pure Finding, was still in Brewers (1983) but left out of the 20?? C edition (1991)

Anyone who tells you there is no such thing as a Dog Poo Fairy should consult the 1983 edition. It was used to soften leather after it had been tanned in tannic acid. And was a viable trade in the Victorian era. The tannery in Colyford in Devon had a shit pit in the 1950s according to John Lister, organiser of various small festivals in Devon. As he said - "it stank". Bat/pigeon guano is used today, or modern chemicals in developed countries.

And there is a song about it song.mister.red > Pure Finder

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 08 May 22 - 02:24 PM

It's cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey... came from the 18th century British Navy.,,, They had monkeys (square racks made of iron and designed in squares to hold 16 cannon balls). However, when in icy conditions, the iron was subject to shrinkage and the cannon balls rolled off onto the deck. Subsequently, brass monkeys were made which actually worked well..... but the expression, it's enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey was coined.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 May 22 - 01:27 PM

Brewer's .... the late great Sir Pterry was prouder than somewhat to be asked to do the foreword to "the millennium edition, 1999". And slap mi diodes and call me Frank, but I nearly wrote "the Y2K edition".

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 May 22 - 04:20 PM

One man's fish is another man's poisson.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: meself
Date: 05 May 22 - 03:11 PM

Trouble is, most 'explanations of common phrases' turn out to be highly dubious ....

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 22 - 10:05 AM

cool

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 May 22 - 09:49 AM

There is a superb book entitled "Brewers Dictionary of Phrase and Fable" which has been in print since 1870.

It has a plethora of explanations of common phrases many of which are still in use today.

It is now in it's 20th edition and will grace any bookshelf.

Subject: RE: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Mrrzy
Date: 05 May 22 - 09:36 AM

Adding insult to injury is an old phrase that means jumping on them (the sult of sauté or somersault or assault) when they were already down.

Really means adding injury to injury. Bad form.

Subject: BS: Olde Sayings
From: Donuel
Date: 05 May 22 - 09:33 AM

Some common sayings are many centuries olde

'Cat got your tongue?' may go back to ancient Egypt.
The origins of old sayings is sometimes surprising like 'Blow smoke up your ass' was an actual 16 th century resucitation technique.