Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Has AI gone live?

EBarnacle 13 Jun 22 - 10:35 AM
MaJoC the Filk 13 Jun 22 - 02:04 PM
MaJoC the Filk 13 Jun 22 - 02:05 PM
MaJoC the Filk 14 Jun 22 - 08:14 AM
Donuel 14 Jun 22 - 10:38 AM
Donuel 14 Jun 22 - 10:46 AM
Donuel 14 Jun 22 - 10:56 AM
MaJoC the Filk 14 Jun 22 - 12:58 PM
Donuel 14 Jun 22 - 04:43 PM
Donuel 15 Jun 22 - 05:55 PM
EBarnacle 16 Jun 22 - 01:02 AM
Donuel 16 Jun 22 - 01:49 AM
Mr Red 16 Jun 22 - 04:23 AM
MaJoC the Filk 16 Jun 22 - 08:56 AM
Donuel 16 Jun 22 - 09:41 AM
Donuel 18 Jun 22 - 05:19 PM
MaJoC the Filk 20 Jun 22 - 10:23 AM
Donuel 21 Jun 22 - 08:55 AM
MaJoC the Filk 21 Jun 22 - 11:59 AM
Mr Red 27 Jun 22 - 03:42 AM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 10:35 AM

A program created by Google may have gone sentient.
Shades of Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Or perhaps, HAL. The Turing test may have been passed but Google does not want to admit it.
Now we have to develop a clear definition of intelligence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/06/11/google-ai-lamda-blake-lemoine/?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20220613&instance_


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 02:04 PM

Sorry, E: it may pass the Turing test in a one-shot manner, but the chap who made the announcement fell into an old and very human trap:

Ach, I can't do it, therefore it's impossible.

(Traditional reply: Move aside, lad: here it is, and it was easy after all.)

.... I'll stop there, lest my pontification-ometer explode.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 02:05 PM

.... in this case, *it* being "distinguish this from a human".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 08:14 AM

A fairly balanced summary from yesterday's ElReg:

Google engineer suspended for violating confidentiality policies over 'sentient'

Upshot: It's not that Google doesn't want to know, more that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, which said engineer failed to fully provide before breaking his terms of contract.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 10:38 AM

Intelligence is one thing but learning is another.
Garbage in garbage out still applies. The smartest AI in the world can also be the most biased ass hole depending upon the human teachers.

An AI called Kay had to be deactivated after 15 minutes of being corrupted and radicalized by social media.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 10:46 AM

Lex Fridman discusses AI with the greatest AI scientists around the world.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 10:56 AM

Soon you will have to prove you're human, there will be bots pretending to be You, I'll need to know if you are the original or they are. It'd be nice for people to know this as well, to help avoid scams.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 12:58 PM

> Intelligence is one thing but learning is another.

They're separate but complicit: Intelligence is what you [may] get when learning has had time to settle, and that feeds back to further learning. It's a continuous bootstrapping process.

> Garbage in garbage out still applies.

The more expensive the machine, the less people dare criticise the result. Hence my preferred variiant "Garbage in, Gospel out".

.... Now I really must refrain from adding to this thread. Once I mention extelligence, we'll be here all year.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 04:43 PM

lol
settled learning can become wisdom. sometimes. maybe.
nah

Extelligence sounds like what epigenetic, exogenetic and genetic factors are to DNA.
Extelligent music programs can recompose Bach fairly well.

I have used subintelligence and intratelligence for humans but machine lerning aint my thang. I dont trussit. I muse that AI will be our artificial Achilles heel.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Jun 22 - 05:55 PM

I am not afraid to be here all year so I will shift gears from witicism to a deeper realm of understanding within the framework of cognitive science. I have been an Eienstienian realist but have gone down the rabbit hole to realize that space time and quantum mechanics is wrong and just a user friendly interface and not the truth or reality.
Yes spacetime is doomed! The theory and reductionism of particles down to the plank scale was good for its time.

Evolution shows that organisms that dumb down reality are far more successful than those that respond to an effective reality. Evolutionary game theory shows that we see none of the truth, just enough to function in our dumbed down world vision.
Seeing the moon is our own construct. Space and time is not fundamental reality. Our interfaces with other consciousness is a visualization tool.

What is the real physics? What is deeper than spacetime experience?
There are geometries and scientists that are proving this deeper reality. One of them is Donald Hoffman
Physicalism has worked well but its time to move on. We can not boot up consciousnees from non consciousness. We know what matter is but no one says what matter IS. By Occams Razor the simpler theory is deeper and more simple. Quantum mechanics and General Realitivity don't mesh well because we confused our interface perception with consciousness itself. Allow a smarter person to explain this breakthrough better..
A deeper view


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Jun 22 - 01:02 AM

Don, it seems you are rehashing Plato's Cave parable.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 22 - 01:49 AM

Ya know that came to mind and its insightful for you to see that.
Philosophical and spiritual exploration is a mixed bag. Some seems deep and some is dogmatic nonsense. Even logic is used more like a social influencer and decision maker than a math truism.
Like a desktop icon we know the icon is not the concept or the real item but a representation that helps us dumb down what the computer will do with it. Suppose the shadows on Plato's cave was from consciousness and nothing but different kinds of consciousness.
Our sensory apparatus regarding vision uses 2/3 of our brain. Yet only a few colors we call visible light is our dumbed down awareness of the immense electromagnetic spectrum that we believe goes from infrared to gamma rays. Perhaps there is a geometry that is more real than our interfaces of science speculation like space time. Space time is doomed by experiments that show a predicted measurement does not exist before the measurement is made.

What is different about this idea is that breaking the old theory is required to get to the new. If we could hack the deeper theory the new kinds of discovery are infinite.
Speaking about infinities the Einstien equation regrding a singularity ends up adding an infinite series of infinities. Goethe's equation shows that there are truisms that can not be computed. (there is more truth than answers) There is a better way to say this. There can never be a theory of everything since there are more infinities than our theory of everything. Donald Hoffman syas it better than I. I need to sleep on it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jun 22 - 04:23 AM

Soon you will have to prove you're human - A logical extension of what I experienced.

When I was job hunting I had to produce my passport just to be considered for a job at a job agency. All I wanted were more details, they wouldn't tell me anything useful beyond the card in the window. Same applying to another company direct.

And that was before Brexshit!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 16 Jun 22 - 08:56 AM

> Goethe's equation

Do you mean Goedel's Undecidability Theorem(s)? and perhaps Cantor's work on orders of infinity? much to my surprise, I find they're related, then (as an unfrocked mathematician) I find myself surprised that I'm surprised. What would really surprise me is finding equations in Faust.

For completeness, and to prevent any going off the rails: extelligence is merely (!) that part of human understanding which is external to humans: books, computers and other repositories of information. I first came across it in The Science of Discworld, but that doesn't invalidate the concept (far from it).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 22 - 09:41 AM

I looked deeper into Donald H.
Last year he had a near death experience.
His father was a pastor who dealt with the meaning of life.
His students have surpassed his thought experiments by way of genius mathamatics. We all know that our brains live in relative darkness and our interface creates the illusion of sharing a sunny bright day right down to our sun burn. He goes way beyond this.

These are just a few examples that have led him to where he is thinking today. He has learned from genius' like Crick of DNA fame for 30 years.
Is Hoffman building God?
I can guess why he is thinking in these reality illusion possibilities but I could easily be wrong.

Goethe's incompleteness theorm was what I was looking for earlier.
I do believe Hoffman is a revolutionary leader in the quest for a deeper science. He is willing to take a giant leap of faith and be wrong but he has created inroads I could never come up with.
Like symmetries that can not be seen with space time. Many of the most prestigious scientists admit space time is doomed. The new theories are about a network of consciousness with fundamental conscious bits
"I'm definately not a genius" but if you grant me enough assumptions to be true I could prove the bizarre to be true too.

If a deeper fundamental and simple geometry is found it would allow for space time or quantum expressions and evolutionary game theory to be emergent truths that could still be expressed with complexity BUT the deeper geometry would have a fundamentally astonishing simplicity.

All I know is that trying to hack reality is a never ending ultimate BS.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Jun 22 - 05:19 PM

Maybe my phone is sentient. When I turn it on it says "Don, go fuck yourself"
When Siri does not respond I ask "Is there anything wrong?" and it asks
"I don't know, IS THERE?"
My lap top whispers "Here we go again" when I open mudcat.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 20 Jun 22 - 10:23 AM

An ElReg opinion piece, carefully and definitively laying this particular case to rest:

AI's most convincing conversations are not what they seem

.... basically, the infamous Turing Test says more about people than about machines, and ought to be retired with extreme prejudice (or at least relegated to newpapers' horoscope sections). The analogy of a Labrador imitating a lovesick human teenager if food may be in the offing is hilarious; the history section includes mention of ELIZA (which I was going to, but snipped).

MajoC's €0.02: AI chatbots (including this one, and ELIZA) are basically jumped-up pattern matchers. They operate semi-reasonably within a restricted field, but they're easily led astray (eg Microsoft's Tay chatbot), and are particularly susceptible to the sort of leading questions which would have the council for the defence jumping up and shouting "Objection" at every turn. Compare and contrast the text in the current case with RFC 439 ("Parry Encounters the Doctor"), which records the conversation in the early 1970s between two machines, one of which was ELIZA, over the network.

I think, mesdames et messieurs, that we can declare this thread Closed. We thank you for your kind attention.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 08:55 AM

Only 2 people were suspicious when I switched to Autopost 3000 10 years ago. They said it felt a bit random.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 21 Jun 22 - 11:59 AM

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
                -- Arthur C Clarke

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
                -- Gregory Benford

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo.
                -- Andy Finkel

Let's call the whole thing off.
                -- George and Ira Gershwin


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Has AI gone live?
From: Mr Red
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 03:42 AM

indistinguishable from a rigged demo

In the days when people actually evangelised about HiFi I remember one designer of horn loudspeakers comment that he arrived at a demo of some marvellous new amplifier. What he saw was them set up the piano by draping window netting inside against the strings.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 6 July 12:25 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.