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When was the last folk music revival?

Neil D 15 Aug 22 - 03:11 AM
GUEST,Rob Mad Jock Wright 11 Aug 22 - 03:33 PM
Backwoodsman 11 Aug 22 - 07:47 AM
Big Al Whittle 11 Aug 22 - 06:35 AM
GUEST,Danny boy 09 Aug 22 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,Danny boy 09 Aug 22 - 01:56 PM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 17 Jul 22 - 09:41 AM
GUEST,Leadbottom 16 Jul 22 - 06:56 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 16 Jul 22 - 06:51 PM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 14 Jul 22 - 08:11 PM
GUEST,matt milton 14 Jul 22 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 14 Jul 22 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 14 Jul 22 - 03:07 PM
GUEST 11 Jul 22 - 06:24 PM
Big Al Whittle 11 Jul 22 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 11 Jul 22 - 11:36 AM
MaJoC the Filk 11 Jul 22 - 07:19 AM
MaJoC the Filk 11 Jul 22 - 07:01 AM
ST 11 Jul 22 - 05:38 AM
GUEST,matt milton 11 Jul 22 - 04:17 AM
MaJoC the Filk 08 Jul 22 - 08:23 AM
The Sandman 08 Jul 22 - 04:41 AM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 07 Jul 22 - 08:08 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 07 Jul 22 - 06:49 PM
The Sandman 04 Jul 22 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 04 Jul 22 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 04 Jul 22 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 03 Jul 22 - 06:04 PM
Stanron 02 Jul 22 - 08:08 AM
GUEST,matt milton 01 Jul 22 - 07:20 AM
Stanron 01 Jul 22 - 05:13 AM
GUEST,matt milton 01 Jul 22 - 04:19 AM
Bill D 30 Jun 22 - 04:41 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 30 Jun 22 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 29 Jun 22 - 09:11 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 29 Jun 22 - 01:38 PM
Neil D 28 Jun 22 - 06:15 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch 28 Jun 22 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,matt milton 28 Jun 22 - 04:20 AM
Stilly River Sage 27 Jun 22 - 02:30 PM
MaJoC the Filk 27 Jun 22 - 10:23 AM
GUEST,Pixy 27 Jun 22 - 09:58 AM
GUEST,matt milton 27 Jun 22 - 06:36 AM
GUEST,Leadbottom 25 Jun 22 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 25 Jun 22 - 04:00 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 25 Jun 22 - 03:56 PM
GUEST,The Sandman 25 Jun 22 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Leadbottom 25 Jun 22 - 01:45 PM
GUEST,Jerome Clark 25 Jun 22 - 01:40 PM
McGrath of Harlow 25 Jun 22 - 12:45 PM
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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Neil D
Date: 15 Aug 22 - 03:11 AM

Backwoodsman, I don't think one can understate the influence of blues music on English music, at least in the last 60 years. nearly every band in what us Murkins call the British invasion were steeped in the Blues.
Jagger and Watts met as members of Alexis Korner's Blues band. John Mayall's Bluesbreaakers introduced us to Clapton, Mick Taylor and the three founding members of Fleetwood Mac. Pink Floyd named their band after two bluesmen and if the Animals weren't Blues who was? Zepelin covered many Blues standards. I could go on and on but I won't even mention Baldry, Gallagher and Auger. One could argue that British bands of that era had a heavier Blues influence than American bands.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Rob Mad Jock Wright
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 03:33 PM

The last revival was last night or will be tomorrow night.
Depends on where you are and what you are doing.
Might be another one next week.??????


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 07:47 AM

”The whole musical world has to acknowledge that the blues was the harmony of the 20th century. We are far from done with the blues. You can still hear innovations being made with the blues in locales like Bahia, Brasil.

I don't think we would have had R&R or heavy metal without the blues. And, if it's not the blues, I can't think of any other music that deserves to be called the "people's music."


Possibly true of the US. But there’s a very big ole world beyond the US’s borders, with many other ‘people’s musics’, depending on location, and where the Blues is just another musical form no more ‘special’ than many other forms.

As always, the standard disclaimer applies - IMHO. However, I realise that YMMV, and I’m cool with that.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Aug 22 - 06:35 AM

'I can't think of any other music that deserves to be called the "people's music."


I don't understand that.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Danny boy
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 05:53 PM

McGrath of Harlow that is… if anyone can nudge him…


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Danny boy
Date: 09 Aug 22 - 01:56 PM

I seem to own your old Angelica guitar. Model number 2854 serial number 226…….. I don’t use this site or forum… but a post from 21 years ago suggests you had my guitar! Now I have yours. Thought I’d reach out. Danny, Worthing, West Sussex


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 17 Jul 22 - 09:41 AM

I prefer the definition often attributed to Sam Phillips: "Howlin' Wolf is where the soul of man never dies."

No one disputes -- I hope anyway -- that early rock'n'roll (not to mention some later rock) counts traditional folk among its varied influences. But if to make the case for rock-dominated history one must press the argument:

If Howlin' Wolf is rock, so is Charlie Patton. Wolf never mentioned rockers as among his influences, though in interviews he sometimes cited Jimmie Rodgers's yodels. (Was Rodgers a rocker?) Still, from this perspective the only consequential differences, more technological than stylistic, are the electrification and the volume. And if the latter comprise one's definition of rock, then Robert Johnson is a rocker because toward the end of his life he played a plugged-in guitar and performed with a trio, including (apparently) a drummer.

Of course, there's a not-subtle subtext here, namely the presumption if it's electrified, it can't really be blues and should be redefined as something else, such as (of course) rock.

From there, I guess, one can argue that blues' significance is that it was a stop on the way to humanity's crowning musical achievement: rock, needless to say. I suppose one can follow the logic and declare blues just a primitive draft, which Wolf transcended, of that highest form. Most people who care about such things, I suspect, would find that notion pretty depressing.

The reality is more like this: Howlin' Wolf may have been a part of rock's trajectory, but rock was not a part of Wolf's.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 06:56 PM

The whole musical world has to acknowledge that the blues was the harmony of the 20th century. We are far from done with the blues. You can still hear innovations being made with the blues in locales like Bahia, Brasil.

I don't think we would have had R&R or heavy metal without the blues. And, if it's not the blues, I can't think of any other music that deserves to be called the "people's music."


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 16 Jul 22 - 06:51 PM

If Howlin' Wolf is folk, then rock & roll is folk.

"Classical music remains an identifiable genre, despite the fact that the music of John Cage or James Tenney sounds nothing like Handel. A programme of classical music could include everything from early music to graphic scores, yet still be considered classical."

So Scott Joplin works very well on a classical music program.

No one has commented upon Lomax's statement in 1960 that Louis Armstrong was the greatest folksinger alive at that time. That sort of challenges the claims that commercial music is doubtful as "folk." Since Armstri¡iong was also one of the most commercially successful artists of the 20th century.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 08:11 PM

"Folk and blues" denotes musics that overlap at points but ultimately part ways. Early down-home blues was a style of tradition-based music shaped pretty much in the way folk songs were created and passed on. By mid-century (or a little earlier) blues as a popular genre began to create its own story through a range of broadly comparable styles, some far removed from the original rural variety that one can reasonably link to folk.

Guys like Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, Johnny Shines, Big Walter et al. are folk musicians of a kind, in my opinion. I wouldn't apply that characterization to more uptown, jazz-influenced artists such as BB King, Little Milton Campbell, Bobby Bland, T Bone Walker, Charles Brown, and the like. I love all that stuff, but today most advertised blues is the work of flashy white rock guitarists in search of faux-authenticity. As a regular CD reviewer I hear enough of this to wonder if blues has a future.

For some recent examples of blues as folk, there's Taj Mahal & Ry Cooder's "Get on Board" (Nonesuch) and Charlie Musselwhite's "Mississippi Son" (Alligator) -- both well worth your attention if this kind of approach interests you.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 04:30 PM

"No, because hip hop, raggae and punk are genres, while folk is a collection of genres, but is not a genre in itself. This also applies to classical. Waltz, march, aria, rondo and scherzo are genres, while classical is a collection of those genres, while it is not a genre in itself."

As someone else pointed out above, a genre can have subgenera. Thet doesn't stop it being a recognisable genre.

Classical music remains an identifiable genre, despite the fact that the music of John Cage or James Tenney sounds nothing like Handel. A programme of classical music could include everything from early music to graphic scores, yet still be considered classical.

Whereas a festival of folk music that featured Amyl & the Sniffers and Kanye West would be a bit unusual to say the least. I'm not sure those acts *want* to be thought of as folk and would want to play it. People would rightly wonder why it wasn't termed a festival of punk and hip-hop.

I notice you eleted not to answer my query that you quoted as to whether punk or reggae *want* to be considered folk? The fact is that however you look at it, if folk simply becomes a descriptive term for a process/model of music making then it ceases to be useful in describing the musical content.

I'll say it again, if 'folk' were to simply mean homemade DIY music making then it would cease to be a useful descriptive term: it would include, for example, all musicians who play classical music at home for fun. It would include bedroom techno programmers. It would include Lily Allen, who got her break releasing home recordings n Myspace days.

Were that to happen we would, ironically, have to find a new descriptive term to use instead of 'folk' with which to refer to the music talked about on this board. I wouldn't be able to use it as a useful shorthand/adumbration of the music I love any more.

The very fact that we are having this discussion on this board is proof that the definition of folk works as it stands.

You mentioned blues - I tend to think of blues as something related to folk, but different. Yes, you could call blues a type of folk music, but it's no coincidence that you often see the words "folk and blues". It's a useful descriptive distinction.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 03:15 PM

Phil wrote: Most folks will just use alpha-by-artist at home.

Point: Not until recently could we separate the individual genres that make up these collections. It might be good to try this as an experiemnt. A piano sonata or a cantata may contain several genres which were heard as one collection. That was the only available way to hear them. Now we can separate all of them. We can rip apart these collections and catagorize each piece by genre. Try putting all waltzes together in one collection - then Morning Has Broken by Cat Stevens will be in that collection of waltzes. If we extend this to marches and every other genre, we may get a new perspective on the old questions of "What is folk?" or "What is classical?"


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 03:07 PM

matt wrote: I don't think hip-hop, reggae and punk *want* to be considered folk - who does that help? Try flipping it round: is folk hip-hop? Is folk reggae?

No, because hip hop, raggae and punk are genres, while folk is a collection of genres, but is not a genre in itself. This also applies to classical. Waltz, march, aria, rondo and scherzo are genres, while classical is a collection of those genres, while it is not a genre in itself.

Reggae emerged from a grassroots music scene called ska. Very difficult to exclude any form of pop from the collections of classical or folk. What was the blues before it was allowed into the collection of folk?


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 06:24 PM

https://youtu.be/QNC9i2szngs


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 12:05 PM

Hang on! Its just died again.....!!

Any volunteers to loosen its corset Tickle the old girl into life and give it mouth to mouth resuscitation...?


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 11:36 AM

Or let's try it this way: "folk" is what happens when the record industry isn't looking.

Moses AschFolkways RecordsWoody Guthrie.

Folk is a genre-category-type-style-aisle-shelf-breed-[X]... but a 6th century German-Irish rowing chant isn't goombay, junkanoo or calypso and none of any of it is popular in British folk clubs.

Except for not knowing what it is; what critical atribute one wants to measure and how to measure same... we calculate it's revival comes every thirty (30) years. Cue Tom Lehrer's New Math.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 07:19 AM

Or let's try it this way: "folk" is what happens when the record industry isn't looking.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 07:01 AM

Long View Dept: Trolls believe we walk through live backwards, because we can see what's happened, but not what comes next. References in one's thesis, and in papers in the Learnéd Journals, can similarly only look backwards.* The tiny birth pangs of the next scientific revolution will be drowned by the roar of the current orthodoxy, unless and until it becomes a roar in its own right. And I didn't clock Planxty or the Pogues till I heard Fairytale of New York one Christmas.

The next folk revival will come out of the blue. That's the thing about the future: if we knew what it would be, it wouldn't be a surprise.

* There's a journal which scrapes references, and reverses the pointers; when I was writing up, I found it invaluable for finding everything which referenced my Prof's paper. But it still needs to be compiled on a yearly basis.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: ST
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 05:38 AM

As far as I'm concerned, the last folk revival happened on Saturday when I was performing at Mary's Irish Pub. It only takes a few good old songs for people who have never heard any to start liking them.

If someone absolutely has to measure revivals by copies sold, though, then yeah, wut, it's not gonna happen until records marked "folk" make the charts again. It's a sales and marketing department thing, though, if you ask me. I'd be just as happy singing my folk song collection if somebody arranges my gigs selling me as a "lumptie-blump" singer. Or something. Anything goes long as it pays better.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 11 Jul 22 - 04:17 AM

"You seem to be treating folk as a genre, which it is not"

I am indeed treating folk as a genre. For me, it very much is. That is the best way for me to define the music that I like and make.

"Matt - I don't think any folksingers called themselves "folksingers" until musicologists did."

I totally agree with that. It could be said that that is when folk became a genre.

"I think a distinction can be made, though a flimsy one, as good as any other flimsy definition of folk - to make folk music in the living room (like Daniel Johnston did in the late 70's and early 80's) and to do it yourself with the most limited supply of resources is quite exceptional."

Yes, you could use that as a definition, but it is not much use in describing the music that I listen to and make. It is also not much use in describing the music that most people who call themselves folk musicians make. It is also not much use in describing the CDs in the folk section of record stores, or on Spotify, or sang in folk clubs, or performed at folk festivals.

It's a definition that applies as much to Billie Eilish (that's how she started) or Jpegmafia or anyone making techno or drum'n'bass as it does Daniel Johnston. For that reason it's not a useful definition: it includes far too much music that nobody thinks of as 'folk'.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 08:23 AM

> Then, if folk is a collection of genres, how can it be a genre in
> itself

A meta-genre? But I fear we're veering dangerously near Russell's Paradox territory here, and that little offender derailed research into the foundations of mathematics for Simply Ages.

> derek schofield for primeminister

And with *that*, we encounter Plato's (or Socrates'?) idea of the philosopher king. Were Derek elected, would he have to be dragged kicking and screaming into Number Ten? rather than out of it (cf the current emcumbrance).


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Jul 22 - 04:41 AM

leadbottom is a category anarchist, he had better watch himself
Derek Schofield, will be on his tail. Derek is a great man for small detail, its a shame he isnt running the uk government he would make a much better job of it than boris the wounded scarecrow. derek schofield for primeminister


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 08:08 PM

Leadbottom: You seem to be treating folk as a genre, which it is not, no more than classical and popular can be considered genres. It is better to consider them as categories of genres.

Oh dear. The prefix is "sub." It's music because it's not literature and it's all Liberal Arts. If the subject is music industry charts & revivals... Classical is Popular because it's not R&B or Country.

Your problem is you're lacking a real world application and the proper ethics that come with. Say as you do. Do as you say. You could call them Tom, Dick, Harry & Rudolph if you please. It wouldn't matter one iota. You're not actually sorting anything at all.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 07 Jul 22 - 06:49 PM

Matt - I don't think any folksingers called themselves "folksingers" until musicologists did. I think a distinction can be made, though a flimsy one, as good as any other flimsy definition of folk - to make folk music in the living room (like Daniel Johnston did in the late 70's and early 80's) and to do it yourself with the most limited supply of resources is quite exceptional.

You seem to be treating folk as a genre, which it is not, no more than classical and popular can be considered genres. It is better to consider them as categories of genres. The genres that make up folk are blues, railroad songs, depression era songs, irish republican songs, and much, much more. Then, if folk is a collection of genres, how can it be a genre in itself. This applies to classical music also. Classical music is a collection of classic genres (waltz, march, minuet, aria, sinfonia, bagatelle, bouree) and hundreds more. Then how can classical be a genre, itself being consisted of genres? Apply the same to the word popular. Actually, when you look at it this way, much of the source of confusion begins to become apparent.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 04:01 PM

Shirley Collins performs a different genre of music to Kanye West and I don't see the usefulness of claiming otherwise". quote
Spot on.
Miles Davis performs a different genre of music to cliff richard


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 02:25 PM

Ever notice some old vinyl records weren't pressed in your basic black?

RCA Victor microgroove (7”-45RPM) colour codes:
Children's – Yellow
Classical – Red
Country & Western – Green
Popular – Black
R&B – Orange
International – Blue

The genre were legacy from 10"-78RPM. Folk was Pop or Country with the occasional R&B. The colour system didn't last long. Materials management & planning nightmare.

When an American library filed their RCA Victor holdings right alongside Columbia & Folkways they used the Dewey Decimal System.

The sorting criteria and genre labels changed because the users changed. The physical inventory remained the same.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 04 Jul 22 - 11:36 AM

Essentially, in claiming -- the evidence of our own ears notwithstanding -- that there are no genres, some would argue that folk music is whatever a horse doesn't sing.

That's about as useless a definition as any complacent observer could pull out of his nether region. Even Big Bill Broonzy meant it as a joke.

Coming next:

Any sound you hear in the world through your (human) ears is folk music.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 03 Jul 22 - 06:04 PM

I typically find The Weavers; Burl Ives &c in the “Oldies” section, if there is one. Which definition takes precedence walking in, yours or the shopkeeper's? Genre labels are for inventory. They 'exclude' everthing they don't 'include':

One Harry Belafonte album was titled Calypso.
The Billboard chart was “Popular.”
The Grammy was “Folk.”
The current used media/boot sale bin is “Pop/Male Vocal” moving toward “Oldies” & it's still just the one & same album it's always been.

Personal definitons aren't of much value even to the person having them. Most folks will just use alpha-by-artist at home.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Stanron
Date: 02 Jul 22 - 08:08 AM

There are definitions of Folk Music that allow inclusions. There are definitions that appear to mandate exclusions. I prefer the former.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Jul 22 - 07:20 AM

I don't think we are back to the old lines of 'folk' versus 'traditional folk' here: I think Leadbottom is suggesting a definition of folk that is much, much wider than that. Leadbottom is suggesting that hip-hop, reggae and punk could be considered folk.

I don't see the point of that. I don't think hip-hop, reggae and punk *want* to be considered folk - who does that help? Try flipping it round: is folk hip-hop? Is folk reggae?

I think specific descriptive terms are extremely useful things. I don't understand the impulse to say that all dogs are labradors just because other dogs have doggy things in common with labradors.

Shirley Collins performs a different genre of music to Kanye West and I don't see the usefulness of claiming otherwise.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Stanron
Date: 01 Jul 22 - 05:13 AM

We are back to the old lines of 'Folk' versus 'Traditional Folk' here. It could be argued that Traditional Folk is a kind of equivalent to Historical Re-enactment. I don't imply any pejorative inference here. If someone wishes to dress up in 16th Century dress, lug around muskets and pikes and re-enact the English Civil war, then good luck to them. I might even go and watch and enjoy it. Similarly if someone wants to sing songs that were relevant in past centuries then good luck to them too. I may well go and watch and enjoy that too.

Non of that can negate the fact that music can develop away from commercial endeavours and represent what people want on a grass roots, independent sort of level as well. Some of which I may like and some of which I wouldn't touch with a barge pole, if one I had.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Jul 22 - 04:19 AM

@Leadbottom: you are adopting a very broad definition of folk music here, which appears to be something along the lines of "music of the people" - any music with a grassroots base.

You wouldn't be the first to have proposed this but I don't think it's workable myself - because it potentially includes all music. If it includes bedroom singer-songwriters, as you suggest, then it would have to include pretty much everyone who now makes music on soundcloud: popstars like Lily Allen and Billy Eilish, teenage techno producers and YouTubers.

If a definition of 'folk' expands to include any music made in a 'folkloric' fashion - any music so long as it has a 'from the ground up' beginning, then I don't see its usefulness because it is not specific enough.

Rappers, reggae singers and punk rockers do not describe themselves as folk musicians. The impetus to explode the definition of folk music seems to be unilateral: you never hear people asking "why shouldn't the definition of hip-hop be expanded to include people like Martin Carthy?"


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jun 22 - 04:41 PM

3 weeks ago
https://www.fsgw.org/washingtonfolkfestival


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 30 Jun 22 - 12:46 PM

I think that folk music is always happening, but you don't always know that it's happening, especially since recording devices are more common. Seems that the folk movement of the mid or late 70's was being produced in the bedrooms and living rooms of suburban teenagers like Daniel Johnston - from Austin, TX. Other kids living in the Bronx were making and sharing mixtapes of a new way of making folk music, and they called it "hip hop." It was also called the "Do It Yourself" movement or DIY. Does anyone know anything more about this?


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 22 - 09:11 PM

ROSMA - Thank You.

I had forgotten about the entire New Christian folk movement of the 70" s, 80's.

KAEGY
GABRIEL
AGAJANIEN

The Armenian community contributed much more than lyrics... the finesse and fine precision and execution, raised Christian music to a level unsurpassed.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 29 Jun 22 - 01:38 PM

How's about this?

Hi, How Are You - Daniel Johnston


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Neil D
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 06:15 PM

I just watched a video of Billy Strings doing an entire hour of Doc Watson music. This kid is the real deal and I wouldn't even know about him if my kids hadn't twisted my arm, and they aren't what you'd call folkies. Internationally, I listen to Mongolian folk rock like Altan Urag and The Hu and I have lately become quite enamored with the Desert Blues being created by Tuareg artists like Mdou Moctar and Tamikrest.
So, my answer to the OP: the most recent folk music revival is now. The last folk music revival will, hopefully, never happen.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 08:49 AM

:::Rolls eyes in Bahamian:::

Why is this discussion on folk music soooooo male dominated?
Aggression & territorial defense; individual recognition; mating display. The usual Attenborough material.

Why do you "guys" seem to think that folk music isn't of other cultures from all around the entire world, and is only of the USA/England?
I blame Paul Campbell... & Thomas Edison.

“What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby? Maybe we'll never know.” [J. Handey]


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 28 Jun 22 - 04:20 AM

"Why do you "guys" seem to think that folk music isn't of other cultures from all around the entire world, and is only of the USA/England?"

I don't think that, and I listen to and enjoy loads of different traditional musics from many nations and cultures.

But unfortunately - and I think in many ways this is a huge own goal - we don't have precise terminologies in British and American folk musics in the same way other cultures do. We just have the catch-all 'folk'. We don't have, for example, bhangra or bal folk. We don't even have many words for specific sub-forms, the way other countries have ghazal or calypso or klezmer or zouk or Mariachi or rebetika.

If I want to refer to any of those aforementioned folkloric forms I will do so using those terms.

And by the same token I use the standard accepted term that the vast majority of people seem to use when referring to traditional English, Irish, Scottish, Welsh, North American and Canadian music. Which is currently, for better or worse, the word "folk".


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 02:30 PM

Pixy seems to want to start an argument, not contribute to the conversation. Take yourself off to search the forum and you'll find a lot of discussion of folk around the world.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 10:23 AM

> Why is this discussion on folk music soooooo male dominated?

It's only us lads who have the patience to split hairs so finely, and the bullheadedness to argue to the death about the process and the results. The lassies have better things to do.

I'll get mi tin helmet.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Pixy
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 09:58 AM

Two questions:
Why is this discussion on folk music soooooo male dominated?
Why do you "guys" seem to think that folk music isn't of other cultures from all around the entire world, and is only of the USA/England?


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 27 Jun 22 - 06:36 AM

"The last folk revival happened after the excitement about oldtime music that O Brother Where Are Thou? generated. At least so I judge, as a longtime CD reviewer, from how many trad-sounding CDs were showing up in my mail in the subsequent two or three years. Now, sadly, we're back to "folk" as singer-songwriters oblivious to the tradition."

I think there's a small upsurge among young people making traditional music, of a notably more stripped-down and in some cases 'experimental' (though not radically avant garde) fashion.

I wouldn't call it a revival as such, but there's definitely an uptick of interest. I go to a fortnightly singaround at the Matchstick Piehouse in London and it's packed with 20 and 30somethings. I'm in my mid-40s and I'm often the oldest person there.

It's notable how many of the kids there have learned songs from Lankum or Stick in the Wheel. Acts like those two, alongside Nick Hart, Shovel Dance Collective, John Francis Flynn, Burd Ellen and others are providing something a bit different and attracting younger audiences.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 04:01 PM

This is not a "what is folk?" thread. It's a "What is a "what is folk?" thread?"


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 04:00 PM

When people say "we surely do not want yet another "what is folk?" thread, what do they mean by the word "folk?" LOL


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 03:56 PM

Sandman - There is only you and myself. Everyone else here is an individual in their own right. Who is "we?"


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 02:25 PM

lead bottom, you are entitled to your opinion, but why try and persuade others, we surely do not want yet another what is folk.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Leadbottom
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 01:45 PM

Yes. There are always fresh approaches to the topic. That's why I really like hearing from young people when it comes to folk, pop and any kind of music. I have these same kinds of talks about classical music. We have to remember how much classical and folk are both hindered and energized by pop music.

I think that's relevant. Folk gets interesting when pop music gets tired. And visa versa. There's a real dynamic between folk and pop, and classical and pop. While it might not feel like it's happening in obne scene, it's happening in another and eventually those influence come back around.

I'd say that all of the Ramones repetoire is folk on electric guitars. It's easy to hear it that way if you classify the bulk of it as "children's songs." Of course, you must have considered much of the Beatles catalogue as folk, no? I mean, you've had that discussion here? I'd say yes to this because their music is a) classic and b) easy to sing and communicate in an oral tradition.

That part of their catalogue which is not folk could be classified as classical music - songs like Tomorrow Never Knows and Revolution #9.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: GUEST,Jerome Clark
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 01:40 PM

One thing we can all agree on is that folk songs, whatever their origins, persisted in oral performance and helped shape a tradition. Nobody, I hope, will try to argue that prospect is likely to apply to the typical, instantly forgettable singer-songwriter effusion from the last decades of pop music.

Besides that, we no longer live in the cultural circumstances that made folk music -- not called that, of course, by those who sang or played it -- a part of ordinary life. Unless folk music is redefined as any music people, as opposed to horses, enjoy.


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Subject: RE: When was the last folk music revival?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 22 - 12:45 PM

Arguments about "what is folk song" are in themselves an important part of the tradition, and have been since at least the 18th century. They are have been an established part of it since before pretty well anything else, including virtually all of our most antiquated songs.


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