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Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST Date: 16 Sep 23 - 12:47 AM 2023 Obit: Vale Chris Sullivan (folklorist - Oz) href="mailto:jakehollidau@gmail.com">jakehollidau@gmail.com |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 15 Sep 23 - 11:07 PM Freightliners....? Isn't that a haulage business? Perhaps they were a works band, or maybe freightliner paid them to use the name... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freightliner_Trucks |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Ray Date: 15 Sep 23 - 01:07 PM No! |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Ian clarke Date: 15 Sep 23 - 12:20 PM Anyone remember The band called Freightliners, freightliner, or Freightline special |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: John MacKenzie Date: 08 Nov 22 - 08:52 AM Funky Moped ! |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Ray Date: 08 Nov 22 - 05:06 AM Ah, Hank Wangford, the singing gynecologist! Going back to the original subject, I've just been reading "Beware of the Bull"; the biography of the late Jake Thackray. A poster is reproduced on page 429 from the "Boggery" folk club - run I recall by Jasper Carrot - which clearly states that "Blues and Country music will also be featured regularly." |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Bonzo3legs Date: 06 Nov 22 - 05:16 PM "Sarah Jory was one of those who played Country clubs and festivals by the score. The UK country club, and festival scene was really big in the 70's-90's" I should remember the Hank Wangford Band, wonderful band!! |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Ray Date: 31 Oct 22 - 10:52 AM My recollection of UK “folk” clubs back in the 70s is that there were basically three types. The first two were run in the back rooms of pubs; one with a distinct bias towards traditional music and the other towards contemporary music although you wouldn’t get dragged off stage if you sang a traditional song as you might by singing a contemporary in the former. The third type was the larger club which tended to have guests every week of whatever genre the organisers thought their usual cliantelle would pay to see. I don’t recall anything overtly “country” but I think you need to differentiate between “country” and “country and western” music and suspect that the latter might be what the o/p is referring to. I do remember a certain band called Hunter Muskett apologising for introducing an electric guitar into one song! Those were the days! |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 Oct 22 - 11:45 PM Wales has always loved country music. Charlie Pride's voice was very like a Welsh tenor. Royston Jones could do that sort of stuff excellently. The Welsh singer song/writer Amy Wadge did folk clubs. Though I would imagine her successes as a songwriter has made her - well a bit too prosperous to bother with pub gigs. Speaking of the colonies. I used to work for an agent called John Wall. During the 1960's he had a folk club in Leeds (this was years before I ever set foot in that city, but he told me about it). The club was called the Nashville. And apparently both Johnny MacEvoy and Christy Moore used to do it quite regularly. He told me the deal was that Christy used to dig his garden and do the gig for a fiver. |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST Date: 30 Oct 22 - 06:32 PM The question was about British folk clubs. |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST Date: 30 Oct 22 - 11:53 AM Sarah Jory was one of those who played Country clubs and festivals by the score. The UK country club, and festival scene was really big in the 70's-90's |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Derrick Date: 30 Oct 22 - 10:54 AM Sarah Jory did start her career early,she joined her first group at 9 years old after receiving a steel guitar at 5 years old. See here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Jory |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Bonzo3legs Date: 30 Oct 22 - 08:39 AM I discovered Sara Jory last night, who is an excellent English pedal steel player, who plays like a usaian country player, I wonder if she ever played in folk clubs at the start of her career? |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 30 Oct 22 - 08:19 AM On that LP that Isla St Clair did for kids TV - famous folk songs, she does this fabulous treatment of Take this Yellow Handkerchief (in remembrance of me - some times called Flash Company. Very country. |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 30 Oct 22 - 06:45 AM For anyone curious to know about Country Music in UK Folk Clubs here are three examples from the programme mentioned above. Many of the clubs at the time used and enjoyed music such as this. Country music to be sure but a long way from the way Nashville treated it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDygRBnc5CMdA&v=hnv3meMv1gU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY7904B6lI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo1r-bxzJ-g |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 27 Oct 22 - 02:16 PM Was that the one where Cliff Aungier used to play this fast tricky instrumental at the start? If so, twas the first time I heard Sandy Denny. She sang Jackson C. Frank's Blues Run the Game. A long time ago now. I must have been 16, I'm 73 now. |
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Subject: RE: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 27 Oct 22 - 02:37 AM I wonder if it was 1970 after all and the show I went to is not listed in the archives because it was not recorded at the Playhouse? It was definitely at the Apollo, Manchester and it was definitely Wally Whyton. Anyone know if they did a series of road shows? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Hootenanny Date: 26 Oct 22 - 06:34 PM Country Meets Folk was a weekly broadcast which if my memory is correct was broadcast live. It was hosted by Wally Whyton and Jim Lloyd. It took pace at the Playhouse Theatre in London close to the embankment. Resident bass player was session man Brian Brocklehurst. I went along several times usually when Malcolm Price was appearing. Malcolm of course performed a mixture of American folk songs, bluegrass and country eg. Long Black Veil and Money Marbles and Chalk. He also did current songs by American singer songwriters. Steve Benbow was another performer of Folk material English, Irish and American who appeared. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Roger Date: 26 Oct 22 - 04:09 PM We don't have a folk club up here in Carlisle now, mores the pity. I can assure you that the average pimply youth round here thinks a banjo is a pizza with a handle!! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,North CountryPrimitive Date: 26 Oct 22 - 03:38 PM I think Tony you make a good point above- you only have to listen to the hillbilly/folk/old timey contributions to Harry Smith’s mighty Anthology of American Folk Music to see where a huge part of the roots of country lie, and there’s not much ‘western’ involved. Meanwhile I could totally get why some pimply youth in the Northampton or Carlisle (say) of 1971 might want to pop down their local folk club trying to emulate the music of Dock Boggs or Roscoe Holcomb. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Tony Rees Date: 26 Oct 22 - 02:29 PM RE "We do both kinds of music. Country AND Western" ... is funny in today's context, however appropriate once upon a time, since "country music" arguably came from the mountains / hillbilly territory (Carter Family etc.) and originally had little to do with "western" music (singing cowboys etc.). The blend probably occurring when both moved to the cities and a new marketing genre developed incorporating elements of both... you could argue (if you wanted) that the "western" element persists in persons wanting to dress up like cowboys, fire pretend guns, and say "yee hah!" a lot, while the "country" element is closer to the still-current folk music of the Appalachians etc. The more "modern"/sentimental country/Nashville music (1940s onwards) having departed from both quite a bit... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Oct 22 - 02:05 PM Couldn't find any more details but I think I was wrong about 1970 as there were no genome listings for that year. Probably 71 or 72. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 26 Oct 22 - 01:51 PM I was musing and remembered something of relevance. Back in 1970 my mate Mike and I got tickets for a live recording of a radio show at the Apollo in Ardwick, Manchester. All I can recall is that it was hosted by Wally Whyton so I looked him up and it seems his show was "Country meets Folk". It ran from 1967 to the mid 70s so it certainly seems that there was a mass market for this crossover. If I can find any more details, I shall post them :-) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 25 Oct 22 - 03:44 PM One of my favourite lines in any film is from the Blues Brothers We do both kinds of music. Country AND Western :-D |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST Date: 25 Oct 22 - 02:46 PM Wander8ing a little off topic: The Transatlantic sessions started around 1996 and had a mix of folk, country and bluegrass. Performers featured include Emmylou Harris, Alison Krauss, Nancy Griffith, Iris Dement, Joan Osborne, James Taylor, Guy Clark, Ricky Skaggs, Paul Brady and John Martyn.For those that do not like bluegrass try listening to 14 year old Marty Stuart with Lester Flack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12-HO8e9T6I |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Oct 22 - 01:53 PM I can remember the bloke who did the Nottingham Country Music Club radio programme saying ....bluegrass, I don't call that country music! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Tony Rees Date: 25 Oct 22 - 01:35 PM Country music famously is "3 chords and the truth" ... mind you, folk music has 0 chords, at least when sung unaccompanied... I'm currently fooling around with "The Old Home Place", a country (alright, bluegrass) song by Mitch Jayne & Dean Webb which has 5 chords - luxury! - Tony |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Backwoodsman Date: 25 Oct 22 - 08:36 AM ”I suppose the main point of confluence is the British intolerance which screws up so much of our culture. That's not what I call country. That's not what I call folk. That's not what I call trad jazz.... These buggers are a weariness of the flesh. Lets hope they all go to heaven where they can moan to the almighty , world without about having to share their living quarters with the culturally impure.” Hear, hear! Amen to that, Al. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Bonzo3legs Date: 25 Oct 22 - 08:12 AM No mention, all the wear and tear on an old honkey tonker's heart I might a known it, but nobody told me about this part Jesse Winchester |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 25 Oct 22 - 07:14 AM There were many points of confluence. I suppose the main point of confluence is the British intolerance which screws up so much of our culture. That's not what I call country. That's not what I call folk. That's not what I call trad jazz.... These buggers are a weariness of the flesh. Lets hope they all go to heaven where they can moan to the almighty , world without about having to share their living quarters with the culturally impure. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Howard Jones Date: 24 Oct 22 - 09:16 AM I don't recall hearing any country music in the folk clubs I went to in the 1970s. They were mainly British trad, with a sprinkling of singer-songwriter "contemporary folk". Not much American music of any genre, although of course floor singers would do Dylan and I recall seing a few American guests such as Derroll Adams, Holly Tannen and Jim Couza. Most of my circle had a low opinion of Country, regarding it as fake-cowboy, formulaic and over-sentimental. I don't the BBC's "Country meets Folk" programme satisfied either camp. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST Date: 24 Oct 22 - 08:01 AM "I remember Sydney Devine, who did one of the first covers of Streets of London. He was pretty popular. And Frankie Miller who had a big hit with 'Darlin' Those guys must have been working somewhere". Certainly not in any folk club. Anyone who thinks Frankie Miller was a country singer hasn't been listening too hard. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Oct 22 - 05:38 AM And for a bit of light relief... Why was line dancing invented? To give Morris dancers something to laugh at :-D |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST Date: 24 Oct 22 - 02:23 AM This should really be turned on its head. Folk played in Country Music Clubs. During the 70's-early 90's.. country had many followers, and a huge club scene. In some clubs, there were the idiots with 'guns' and southern flags, cowboy hats etc. which was a horrid stereotype. But they were social hubs for couples to meet. Country was also heavily featured on TV when it was at its peak. CM Festivals were big until the promoters overstretched themselves and went bust. What has this to do with folk? Many country artists included Celtic and folk crossover songs in their acts. Some of the oldie names started in Skiffle groups. I think it went out of fashion when new country came along, when line dancing, and Karaoke nights divided the audience. Some clubs are still going - but the heyday of country clubs in the UK is long gone. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Oct 22 - 12:57 AM Country music must have had quite a few fans in Scotland. I remember Sydney Devine, who did one of the first covers of Streets of London. He was pretty popular. And Frankie Miller who had a big hit with 'Darlin' Those guys must have been working somewhere. I often wonder what happened to all the brilliant musicians in Kelvin Henderson's band. Great memory of Kelvin and his Levin! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,North Country Primitive Date: 23 Oct 22 - 07:38 PM I’m going to have to add your albums with Pete Stanley & Natchez Trace to my Discogs wants list! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,Roger Knowles Date: 23 Oct 22 - 08:53 AM I did a lot of old-times, Bluegrass and straight country in folk clubs with, first, Robin Dransfield, then Nick Strutt and, finally Pete Stanley! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 22 Oct 22 - 03:30 PM and at Kingston on Thames, The Fighting Cocks, a great club |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 22 Oct 22 - 03:29 PM and at Kingston on ThamesM, TheFightingC |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST Date: 22 Oct 22 - 03:08 PM "Sounds like it was all happening in Surbiton! I forever associate it with the Good Life" The guitar God Eric Clapton went to school in Surbiton! Less than 5 miles away was Eel pie island that started as a jazz venue, then folk was tried briefly. After that all the big names from the 60s appeared there- Clapton, The Stones(with a five month residency), The Who, Rod Stewert, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple. Black Sabbath to name a few |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 17 Oct 22 - 06:41 PM Kelvin was a terrific talent, and his band were immense. His album was rarely off my turntable. Really rocky in a Waylon Jennings sort of way. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Newport Boy Date: 17 Oct 22 - 01:15 PM I was involved with Thornbury Folk Club in the late 60s/70s. We met weekly and had mainly local regular singers, including Kelvin Henderson & Dave Gould. They played with us most weeks when they were free. Kelvin had a great voice and his Country Band were very well respected. Maybe Thornbury wasn't typical - we also booked Michael Chapman in the same period. Phil |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: The Sandman Date: 16 Oct 22 - 02:14 PM yes Mark Ross, there was a place like that in Stowmarket called The Ponderosa Club |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Oct 22 - 02:00 PM Mark Ross There were many such clubs in England, the music was pretty secondary as the cowboys showed off their western gear , blank firing guns, gunbeltsetc.It was a regular source of work for English and Irish musicians. An actual American was celebrity status - and usually got you an interview on local radio. Like I say when Thatcher closed the coalmines in England, that was pretty much the end. There were great 'traditions in these clubs. One was that they fired their guns in Ghost Riders in the Sky. There was a quick draw competition in the interval. All the cowboys had 'handles' - they called themselves The Denver Kid, Doc Holliday, etc.Some even had a gallows. One place you had to do your music act standing on the gallows! It was insane....I loved it! |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Tony Rees Date: 16 Oct 22 - 01:40 PM Just out of interest... UK country music fans seem to "love [and follow] American Country Music" as per the post above in the main, and I never really came across it (or them) in my 15+ years following the UK folk scene. By contrast Australia (where I have resided since 1986) seems mostly to create its own country music, something of a hybrid between U.S. country and folk in style, which occasionally also crosses over into popular music and also the folk music scene to a slightly greater degree, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_country_music ... mind you there is still a big Oz country music crowd (much bigger commercially than the folk scene) that would not be seen in folk clubs but have their own festivals, songwriting competitions, awards etc., all very successful over here (and lots of big hats and line dancing...) - more like the U.S. than the U.K. in that respect I guess. But the bottom line is that the "folkier" end of the Oz country scene does grade a bit more inmperceptibly into the "countrier" end of the folk scene over here, I would say. - Tony |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Vic Smith Date: 16 Oct 22 - 01:27 PM The funeral of my great friend and colleague of over 50 years Jim Marshall took place last month. He became interested in both folk and country music as an enthusiast and then as an organiser from the late 1950s. He was involved of running both folk and country music clubs in Brighton, particularly the long-running and highly successful folk club at the Stanford Arms. Also over decades he shared the presentation and production of both the Country music and Folk music weekly programmes on BBC Radio Sussex; the Country programme with Neil Coppendale and the Folk programme with myself. He was particularly interested in that "borderland" where folk merged into country. I gave the eulogy at his funeral and here are three extracts that have a particular relevance here: - In talking about the many aspects and ways that Jim gave his time freely to promote the music that he loved, I am only - in the time available - able to give you the headlines. There will be many aspects that I leave out. Jim was an ideas man and one of his early innovations was ‘Folk Voice’. This was a tape magazine club started by Jim and Mike Storey in the early 1960s. For many years it was the only link with American country music for many British fans had and he managed to attract well known performers to record items. In particular Jimmie Driftwood was a regular contributor. and Jim’s first venture as an organiser was to be one of the four people to organise the first Brighton Country Music Clubs which met at the Springfield Hotel on Wednesdays. Another of the four was Brian Golbey, who was to become a close friend of Jim. Brian was a very talented singer and musician who was on the cusp of his very long and successful career in Country music. He began touring mainly folk clubs on his own and in partnership with the banjo player, Pete Stanley. It got to the stage where he needed someone to handle the paper work, contracts setting dates and so on. Who could he get to do this? You’ve guessed it….. Jim! and By the mid-1960s, folk clubs and pubs had become the life-blood of country music, but soon designated country music clubs started springing up enabling homegrown bands like the Frank Jennings Syndicate, Country Fever and Lincoln Park Inn to have a circuit to work on. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Mark Ross Date: 16 Oct 22 - 01:20 PM When Utah Phillips returned from a tour of the UK in 1972, he was talking about a club he played where they dressed up in western clothes and wore cap guns and loved American Country Music. Anyone know about this place? Mark Ross |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,The Sandman Date: 16 Oct 22 - 12:58 PM I can only talk from my own experience and i saw him regularly, however we agree he was a fine perfomer particularly of blues, i was obviously luckier than you, in that i did not have to ask him to desist from singing ciuntry |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: Big Al Whittle Date: 16 Oct 22 - 12:47 PM I assure you he did play country music as well. In fact I can remember asking him not to. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Country music in 1970s UK folk clubs From: GUEST,The Sandman Date: 16 Oct 22 - 12:33 PM with respect to all , one country song is not a lot he was primarily a blues singer |
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